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Blitz
25th January 2005, 03:08 AM
This is the official thread for all suggestions pretaining to a possible banking system. Please be sure that your idea is well thought out and polished before posting.

A few ground rules to read before posting:

1) There is currently no banking system in KoC, other than buying weapons and then selling them at a later date, especially knives. A banking system should have more benefit and be a bit more complicated than simply buying knives, so keep this in mind when suggesting ideas.

2) All posts must be of a decent length, more than one line. If you want to post an idea, please go into detail about why the change is needed/desirable, what the idea is specifically, and what effect this will have on the game, including the positives and negatives. It can then be discussed. If you want to comment on an idea, don't simply say "This is a good idea, let's go for it," but rather say why you think it is a good idea, and perhaps offer suggestions to improve it or comment on added benefits/unexpected downsides.

3) All posts for the possible banking system and only the banking system are to be posted here. This is to keep this popular idea's threads all in one place, and also to keep this thread on-topic.

Let's see what ideas you all have. :)

Iceman
25th January 2005, 06:39 PM
My opinion here is very simple: KoC should not have any banking system.

The main goal of KoC is to achieve the best things you can (weapons and upgrades) and the main fun is the difficulty to do that. By now we can be sabbed if we have a lot of troubles with strong people and our weapons=gold can be lost if we do not play in a smart way, we have to play step by step knowing and understanding our own power in order to know the enemies we can beat and the enemies we can not beat in a determined moment. We have to become better players every day and then we would be able to beat better enemies, if we add a banking system to the game we would be encouraging the mediocrity making the things easier for everybody.

What fun would we have if all the players of KoC had a "Hand of God"? we have to work harder every day to achieve those things and not to add systems to make it easier.

Salidos
25th January 2005, 09:02 PM
I disagree, Iceman.


My opinion here is very simple: KoC should not have any banking system.
In my opinion, since there is already a form of banking that people use regularly we need to discuss either keeping it or improving it. Also, I don't enjoy being attacked by people who are 20,000 ranks higher than me; I have no chance of defending my gold or counter-attacking. For this reason too there needs to either be a banking system or more restricions on attacking, but I won't discuss the latter here.


By now we can be sabbed if we have a lot of troubles with strong people and our weapons=gold can be lost if we do not play in a smart way
I'm not exactly sure what you said here, but as I understand it knives are a safe way to save money. This is because even if they are sabotaged, you can still sell them at a 75% return. I haven't had personal experience with this so please correct me if I am wrong. I think you may have been referring to other weaopns (ones that are actually used), though. While I agree that you can lose everything by not playing smart, I think that we should have more options on how we can play smart. In my aforementioned example of a much higher rank attacking a lower rank, it doesn't matter how smart you play if you can't defend yourself.


What fun would we have if all the players of KoC had a "Hand of God"? we have to work harder every day to achieve those things and not to add systems to make it easier.
It's true enough that it may decrease the fun if everyone had a Hand of God, though I doubt I will ever know anything nearly that powerful. I have heard that people do use the knife system to save up for expensive things like spy level 9 or 10 (I don't remember which is the highest). So your argument, as it stands with the current game, is illogical. If you truly want no banking system at all, then there would be no selling of weapons.

Now that that is said I would like to make a suggestion. Basically a bank allows you to deposit gold safely; however, this alone is too powerful. As such it needs at least one flaw. This could be like the currently used system where you get a 75% return on what you deposit. Another way would be to limit the amount of gold you can put in it at a time, like 10%. In my opinion, though, I believe that you should be able to deposit any amount you wish in the bank, but it would have the possibility of being stolen through stealth and guile.

So you have your bank guarded by sentries. Your enemies could send their spies to break into your bank and steal some of your gold. This would make a spy vs. sentry check. To make it a bit more interesting--and a bit more fair and realistic--you would enter a number for the maximum amount you want each of your spies to try to steal. There would be a number (let's say 10,000 gold) that your spies could carry without penalty, but anything above that would decrease their effectiveness. This would be because they are encumbered and are making more noise; thus, are easier to spot and capture. The way spies attack would also need to be modified, so it could be implemented that there is spy actions as well as attack actions or both use the same. Now you have another way to protect your gold other than just your defenses or buying items.

Now if you are adamant about having no "safe" gold, even at a 75% return, the selling ratio on equipment could be lowered to discourage its use. Another idea could be to allow weapons to be stolen. I don't really have an opinion on this, though.

I think this will not only increase the versatility of spies, but also add another element of strategy. I'm not sure how the high ranking people would use it, or if they would use it all, but I think it would help the lower ranks. So that's it in a nutshell...a rather large and long-winded nutshell, but you know.

Jedi
25th January 2005, 10:05 PM
I could only agree to a banking system if other players are allowed to steal gold kept in the bank. Perhaps by extending the capability of spies to steal gold?

Otherwise, my position in this matter still remains (http://www.giveupalready.com/showpost.php?p=166660&postcount=24).

GreenArrow
25th January 2005, 10:19 PM
IF a bank is put into this game, I seriously think thieves would be horrible idea.

You said yourself we have trouble with high ranked people attacking other low ranked people. Well I agree with you, but then you have to ask yourself exactly who it is your attacking. Are you attacking people next to you, or people below your rank? Well with being able to steal gold from people's banks, don't you think the same "problem" would accure? High ranking people stealing from low ranked people who banked alot of gold. It would just make it easier for them actually cuz they never attack from the high prices they pay in repairs, and if they could steal they could still get money from people and not have to worry about repairs at all.

Personally I don't think it's a "problem" that high ranking people go for low ranking people. I see that as a factor in the game that the player needs to over come. You can avoid being hit for weeks if you can determine how much gold you can hold b4 being hit, and then checking your account periodically through out the day when you reach that amount, and just spend your gold. That's just something you need to deal with. It's natural.

Also, I don't think the guy b4 u was saying that we shouldn't have any banking. I believe he was saying we should try to be clever w/ what we were given and not make things as obvius as actually making a bank for players who don't realize we already have a banking system. The answer shouldn't be that obvious that we click bank, and type a number. Can you really imagine how much gold that takes out of circulation because a baffoon who normally would have neve rthought of banking now has the ability to save money because the option is right there in front of his face as clear as day. The way it is now, the "bankers" are rewarded, because we get to make attacks against people who don't know about banking, and hold more gold than they should.

I believe the people asking for banks are people who never realized they could save up money in weapons. When you think about it, comapred to ther games, 75% is alot for a return value. In DT, it's like a 35% return cost, but then again they do have that obvious banking system as well, and it makes it really hard to find good attacks.

As for helping out the lower ranks, you can't really help them. thay can only help themselves. The low ranks are the people who don't play the game really, and just check in mabey once a week or so. They are down there for a reason. It's not because there isn't a banking system, but because they don't like the game THAT much.

Jedi
25th January 2005, 10:40 PM
There will be no end to this banking issue. Now, we suggest that there should be banking and when KOC decides to put in this feature; tomorrow, someone would suggest thieves and such. And even after that, someone would later suggest insurance coverage for the money stolen by thieves. Suggestions will still come, good or bad doesn't matter.

Propugnator
25th January 2005, 10:46 PM
Just forget the banking. This is Kings of Chaos, not Kings of Portfolios! Leave more gold on the battlefield for us blood thirsty warlords to steal. If you think otherwise, I stongly recommend a future in accounting.

Salidos
25th January 2005, 11:00 PM
There's more to chaos than bloodshed. Besides, isn't it about becoming the kings of that chaos? In order to become king you must get rid of the chaos; thus, possibly protecting your gold. Then since entropy cannot be stopped, you get the thieves, and then the loop that Jedi talked about.

Oh, and GreenArrow, I never said there was a "problem" with higher ranks attacking lower ranks. I simply don't enjoy it very much, and as such don't partake in attacking people much lower than me. Though now that you bring it up in the context of thievery, maybe there should be some kind of limit. Though limits in general I have seen aren't responded to very kindly. Perhaps it's more of a question of ethics than actual gameplay, but that's just me.

Also:

Can you really imagine how much gold that takes out of circulation because a baffoon who normally would have neve rthought of banking now has the ability to save money because the option is right there in front of his face as clear as day. The way it is now, the "bankers" are rewarded, because we get to make attacks against people who don't know about banking, and hold more gold than they should.
A system of banking with thieves doesn't take gold out of ciculation, it just displaces it. This makes you need more than just attack power to get gold from others. And wouldn't an obvious "bank" button that has the flaw of thievery make the buying and selling way less apparent to even more people? This would satisfy your "The way it is now, the "bankers" are rewarded..." If you were saying that you liked this.

Just tossing out ideas here.

Propugnator
25th January 2005, 11:09 PM
You cannot be a king over something that doesn't exists. Besides, as Jedi said, banking will require more and more to balance things out. So why bother starting something that will just complicate things. And by the way, what do most people think when they start playing this game? "Wow! This game will help my chances of becoming a stock broker!" That's what I thought...

Salidos
25th January 2005, 11:24 PM
Let me pose a question to all of you then: if a banking system like the one I suggested was implemented, do you think people would use it? I haven't been playing the game very long, so I'm just pulling stuff out of the air here.

Propugnator
25th January 2005, 11:28 PM
Why hold your money when someone else will? There is no need for a bank. Spend your money before someone else does. You can't make upgrading too much easier. This game is already child's play.

en4cer82
26th January 2005, 10:27 AM
i think a banking option with the added ability of spies to steal the gold would be a fun addition to the game, and that's saying something coming from a guy that plays KOC for its simplicity. you would have to make stealing from the bank hard though, and there should also be a limit to how much you can put in the bank if you get 100% return. i think 10% would be a good number.

so if we were to add a banking option with the added ability of spies to steal from the bank how hard should we make it? my suggestion would be:
1. the banked amount would never show up on the attack page no matter how much higher your spy was to their sentry.

2. maybe not even have it show up in recons so people would have to get lucky to get a huge amount of money.

3.the formula for stealing should be set up where if your spy is higher then the opponents sentry you have maybe a 10% chance of sucess, but if your sucessful you get at least 90% of the banked amount. the chance of success won't go up much(if any) as your spy gets larger then they're sentry.

4. if you fail your spy would always be killed.

5. finally you have to use attack turns to steal the gold, this would effectively limit the amount of stealing any one account could do, another option would be to have a hard limit of say 20 theft missions a day total against all players.

this should protect smaller players from having their gold stolen by bigger players because why would you take the chance to loose your spies and attack turns on a smaller player when you can get much more from people around your rank. please feel free to point out all the negatives about my plan that i missed, i'm sure they're there somewhere.

Iceman
26th January 2005, 01:23 PM
I'm not exactly sure what you said here, but as I understand it knives are a safe way to save money. This is because even if they are sabotaged, you can still sell them at a 75% return. I haven't had personal experience with this so please correct me if I am wrong. I think you may have been referring to other weaopns

You will loose the weapons if you use it no matter the weapon you are using, if you are banking with knives and somebody sab you and you attack then you will loose the knives but you can bank with ANY weapon you want. A lot of people like me do not bank with knives, I bank with helmets because I am very active with my account and I do not receive very much attacks, then I can still attack and waste some turns earning more money and buying more helmets, that increases the speed to achieve high ammounts of gold because I do not have to pay to repair my weapons and I can get more to bank.


It's true enough that it may decrease the fun if everyone had a Hand of God, though I doubt I will ever know anything nearly that powerful. I have heard that people do use the knife system to save up for expensive things like spy level 9 or 10 (I don't remember which is the highest). So your argument, as it stands with the current game, is illogical

Being sincerely you are just talking about weak players but for example I am rank 310 and a fortification of Hand of God is not that far so what I said is completely logical. You have to think that KoC is not only for players with bad ranks, if we had a bank system I am totally sure that almost all the guys close to me in the ranks would have all the upgrades and then what fun would you have? where would be the challenge?

I have to say again that the KoC players have to try to find out how to become stronger players and not to make the game easier. Do you want to be strong? work for it.

Mordenkhai
26th January 2005, 01:24 PM
I am for a banking system, but not one like people have discussed here. I think the banking system could be twofold:

First, and most imporantly, the Open Bank. Consider all Gold on hand to be open banked. Open banked Gold is available for spending, and looting through combat. At the rollover of each Turn, have the game pay interest to the balance of open banked Gold. Enough of an interest payment could convince those who feel mighty enough to take on all comers to leave their gold on the battlefield for the chance of recieving extra gold for their valor. It would be risky, but the reward should be there to make people consider it, even if they only keep a few turns of gold on hand before caving in and using the classic "banking" of weapons.

Second a Closed Bank. A new upgrade Tier with 10 Levels called Vault. Each Level of Vault automatically stores 1% of your TBG in a 100% safe vault. Armies cannot touch it, Spies cannot touch it however there would be no interest returns. It is simply safe from harm. Now I think the pricing for these would have to be a bit more steep than lets say the Spy upgrades. Enough that you wouldnt as a rule rush to Vault 10 but instead maybe pay for Vaults 1-3 and then consider the rest.

Now I admit the closed bank is less like the theme of KoC. I would rather see the Open Bank method tried without the Closed Bank at first to see if players enjoy it. However I think there are enough people who want some form of protection that a small Closed bank would do no harm and appease those who really want the flexibility of the small TBG % protection.

Salidos
26th January 2005, 02:20 PM
Paying interest on the gold you have on hand? It might be interesting.

From what I've heard most of the higher ranks don't attack or worry about attacks much. Correct me if I'm wrong please. This would then simply give them more gold from their already high TBG. But also from what I've heard many of the higher ranks don't attack because of the massive cost of repairing their weapons. With this extra gold they would theoretically attack more, since they can afford it easier.

This may be bad, though, because there's no guarantee that it will spark more combat in the higher ranks against other high ranks. But that then falls on the players and not game mechanics.

Overall I think the interest is...interesting, but I'm not sure I support it.

Mordenkhai
26th January 2005, 02:47 PM
Paying interest on the gold you have on hand? It might be interesting.

From what I've heard most of the higher ranks don't attack or worry about attacks much. Correct me if I'm wrong please. This would then simply give them more gold from their already high TBG.


Firstly I suppose I should have been more clear, I dont think there is anything you can do for the current age. It's so old that the current top ranked people are so deeply entrenched that its over. They are who they are and not much beyond the next Age is gonna change that. So keep in mind from here on out I am trying to speak of an addition for the next age. So those high ranked people are gonna be starting out from 1 person armies all over again. I think it helps keep the conflict from 1 man to 1,000,000 men armies.



But also from what I've heard many of the higher ranks don't attack because of the massive cost of repairing their weapons. With this extra gold they would theoretically attack more, since they can afford it easier.


Aye that makes alot of sense, see the interest works twofold. It encourages you to keep more money there and yes it adds to what you have to repair. More importantly it means there is flat out more money for you to take, so it will be worth taking! The Devs need to decide the % in order to balance this out. The interest is not only there for you but for your enemies to try and take!



This may be bad, though, because there's no guarantee that it will spark more combat in the higher ranks against other high ranks. But that then falls on the players and not game mechanics.


I think with the interest there, if set high enough, players will risk their cash more often. With more cash out there to risk, players will wanna take it more often. I dont think it is going to mean a flat out 50% increase in combat but I think it will spur an increase overall and put more thinking into money management. Thanks for your in put though :)

GreenArrow
26th January 2005, 02:52 PM
Thieves stealing gold is a bad idea. This is why. Denny can go through the ranks, and find an army with alot of gold in their bank. Then he can steal it. Basically he just stole gold from some1 with out attacking them, so he doesn't even have to worry about repair costs any more, and can still "attack". Now I would assume since every1's sentry around him is so high he wouldn't even attempt to go after them, and would come after the lower ranked people. Another thing is that it encourages duplicate accounts. I could make an account, bank millions of gold in there, and steal it from myself.


1. the banked amount would never show up on the attack page no matter how much higher your spy was to their sentry.

2. maybe not even have it show up in recons so people would have to get lucky to get a huge amount of money.

3.the formula for stealing should be set up where if your spy is higher then the opponents sentry you have maybe a 10% chance of sucess, but if your sucessful you get at least 90% of the banked amount. the chance of success won't go up much(if any) as your spy gets larger then they're sentry.

4. if you fail your spy would always be killed.

5. finally you have to use attack turns to steal the gold, this would effectively limit the amount of stealing any one account could do, another option would be to have a hard limit of say 20 theft missions a day total against all players.

Now if these are the rulez for the banking, then NO ONE would ever try to steal from other players, cuz they wouldn't even know if it was worth it or not, and the ONLY people who would steal would be those who have multiple accounts. So honestly I see this as a method for catching cheaters.

As for other ideas about making a bank that gives interest, but has the possibilty to be stolen... this is crazy. I mean if there's gonna be a bank, why not go the whole 9 yards, and be allowed to make loans. If there's interest, it has to come from somewhere, and that's usually loans. And if we can make loans we might as well be able to go into 40 years of debt. Then we can also make the bank system have a little bit a credibilty by saying up to 100,000 gold is insured incase it's ever stolen. Then we can go on to say that we'll pay for upgrades over a course of either 15 weeks, or 30 weeks, and the longer we take to pay it off, the cheaper we pay per week, but the more we pay in interest.

Now there's a bank system for ya. And yes that was sarcastic. Don't even take that suggestion seriously.

en4cer82
26th January 2005, 03:34 PM
Thieves stealing gold is a bad idea. This is why. Denny can go through the ranks, and find an army with alot of gold in their bank. Then he can steal it. Basically he just stole gold from some1 with out attacking them, so he doesn't even have to worry about repair costs any more, and can still "attack". Now I would assume since every1's sentry around him is so high he wouldn't even attempt to go after them, and would come after the lower ranked people. Another thing is that it encourages duplicate accounts. I could make an account, bank millions of gold in there, and steal it from myself.

People already do this they just attack with 15 turns after selling their thousands of banked knives.


Now if these are the rulez for the banking, then NO ONE would ever try to steal from other players, cuz they wouldn't even know if it was worth it or not, and the ONLY people who would steal would be those who have multiple accounts. So honestly I see this as a method for catching cheaters.

Well the point was to make it hard to steal from other players and to discourage higher ranked people from using all the small players as farms. we wouldn't want denny to steal all the gold some poor 50k ranked player has saved up to buy spy lvl 10. you could make the gold visible i guess in the recons, but then it would be almost impossible to keep money in the bank. I would like to hear more ideas about how to implement banking with the possibility of stealing the gold.

GreenArrow
26th January 2005, 06:06 PM
People already do this they just attack with 15 turns after selling their thousands of banked knives.


I know that's true, but atleast they have to also worry about repair costs. With the new stealing, there wouldn't be any repair costs. Honestly, I think it would be impossible for any spy to steal gold anyway. Just out of curiosity, where are all of those defenders I assigned to defence? More importantly, exactly WHAT are they defending? To put it simply, they are defending my GOLD. So all those soldiers who are waiting for an enemy to try something just so they can get a taste of of some blood are going to be where ever the attakers are going to be. And that's where ever the gold is. So personally, I don't see a spy coming any where close near any amount of money with ARMED soldiers protecting it. You can say the spy went Metal Gear Solid all you want, but your spy is only armed with a grappling hook, while Snake has a pistol with a silencer, AND a gun made speciffically for sniping, as well as a knife for STEALTH kills. So I don't think you spy is gonna get through all of my ARMED soldiers to get any amount of gold. If you wanna steal my gold, your gonna have to take it by FORCE, and that's what attackers are for. Not your spies.

If you don't mind me asking, why do you want a bank? I would like a one sentence answer if you don't mind. Something short and to the point.

en4cer82
26th January 2005, 06:20 PM
i just think it would be fun to steal peoples gold when they think its safe without having to attack to get it.

GreenArrow
26th January 2005, 06:46 PM
But when you attack, you are STEALING gold. What's it matter if you attack or send a thief? If the sole puropse of my "attacker" is to steal gold, then aren't they by nature thieves.

Honestly, I just see stealing gold as a method to get around repair costs, and to also give even more power to spy accounts. I agree that spies have alot of potential to do other things than just recon and sab, but when it comes to it, I just don't think they should ever steal gold. Mabey weapons, but I have that idea up some where else, but I never thought about how crazy that would make things when you bring duplicate accounts into the picture when I made the suggestion. I believe that each unit is assigned a certain job, and if you have 2 units that can do the same job, then you might as well get rid of the other unit completly. I mean which would u rather have?

A brute force attacker that can only steal gold, or a spy that can recon, sab, steal, and whatever else we can think of for them. If you make spies able to steal, you get rid of attackers, and in turn get rid of defenders, and that leaves us with spy vs sentry, and that makes elves the strongest races, and everything becomes unbalanced from there. Personally I see it as a step backwards, cuz we are just switching over from atk vs def, like it originally was, to spy vs sentry which really isn't all that different when we're just looking at numbers.

Salidos
27th January 2005, 11:47 AM
If you don't mind me asking, why do you want a bank? I would like a one sentence answer if you don't mind. Something short and to the point.
First of all I have already answered this question, at least for myself, a while ago. Basically since there already exists a methos of banking (buying and selling), the discussion of whether to keep that or have other ideas is at least merited.

Now I've been doing some thinking based on many of the problems people have noticed with the whole thievery thing. What if the way money works was changed? By this I mean seperate TBG from the spoils of attacking. I think the TBG could technically be part of your units, since they are the ones making it anyway, but it would readily available through "taxing". This would work exactly the same as it does now, but with fancier names and possible consequences. These I suppose would be discussed if anyone decides this is a good idea. A consequence of this "taxing" could be that your troops don't attack as well, but they could still defend just as well because they are defending more than just gold (at least in my mind).

When you attack, you can "steal" the TBG from the defender. This would illustrate your victorious troops looting the dead or those who surrendered and paid a ransom...or something. Then when they return with this it goes into your treasury (since you people don't seem to like the word bank. So now it's just a big room that you put gold in). This would be a seperate stockpile that cannot be accessed by attacks, but only through the use of spies. Of course some changes would then be made to spying to offset the obvious flaws that GreenArrow has so graciously brought up. You would either need to pay to send your spies (thus being somewhat equivilant to repair costs) or limit the number of times you can do this per day. This then offsets the whole "getting around repair costs" somewhat. But now the spies can do much more than attack units can.

Perhaps the attack troops could have more options. One possibility would be to send them simply to kill and not take so much gold. This would increase the number of casualties inflicted; thus, reducing the defender's TBG. I suppose there's probably more to this idea, but I have to go to class.

It's just a thought. What do you people think?

Tegoli
27th January 2005, 05:24 PM
Why not just have a vault feature with a limited amount of storage space??, that way, u cant hide all your money, but u have money aside if you need it, plus other things such as upgrades for the amount it holds could be in there too. such a simple concept, dont see why its such a bad thing...

Iceman
27th January 2005, 05:49 PM
I have read all the posts and I have to say something: KoC is a WAR game, not a thieves game. The only reason to add the gold to the game is to justify the attacks and to make it "numerical" because if we did not have the gold we would not have any reason to make the attacks and we would only depend of the clicks to determine which army is stronger than other. A banking system would never work in KoC because it is against its own nature, that is why other games with banks have not had the suceed of KoC.

KoC is exactly as life, we have to be better prepared than others in order to earn more and better things and what is what you do in your life when you want to achieve something? put little amounts of money in the bank and wait 1000 years to get what you want or work as hard as possible, study and prepare yourself in order to find the best work possible and then earn BIG ammounts of money? if your answer is the first one unfortunately you will never suceed and you would not be more than "another guy" but if your answer is number 2 you are one of the guys ready to succed and become the people you should be.

It is completely illogical to try to make the things easier in KoC or in any other place, the things SHOULD NOT be easy because that would take away the challenge to obtain what we want. What we should do is to thing how to IMPROVE ourselves in order to deserve what we want or need. I have only two words to say: hard work...

Salidos
27th January 2005, 07:23 PM
I'm a little confused, Iceman.

You say this is a war game, to which I agree, but you say that thievery has no place in war? Since when? If I remeber correctly spies are part of every war, whether it be to blow something up or to steal something.


KoC is exactly as life, we have to be better prepared than others in order to earn more and better things and what is what you do in your life when you want to achieve something? put little amounts of money in the bank and wait 1000 years to get what you want or work as hard as possible, study and prepare yourself in order to find the best work possible and then earn BIG ammounts of money? if your answer is the first one unfortunately you will never suceed and you would not be more than "another guy" but if your answer is number 2 you are one of the guys ready to succed and become the people you should be.
First of all, Kings of Choas is just like real life? There's more to life than just killing, destroying, and pillaging--at least in my life. Secondly, if you go through life and don't put any money in the bank, then I'm sorry, but you are a fool. Even with some money in the bank you still need to work hard; if you put money in and do nothing you are also a fool. Why can't you do everything you said and have a bank? Also, I don't know how much easier a bank would make the game, since the current system of "banking" already makes it easier.

Now the only reason I'm suggesting any of this about banks is because there is already a "bank" in the game. Now in my opinion we need to either have no "banks" of any form or discuss how we can possibly improve the current one if it needs it. So if your opinion is to have no banking whatsoever then I can understand you better and respect your input more (I'm not sure I completely understand what you are getting at). Otherwise I'm confused, because as I understand it everything that you are complaining about is already in the game.

Watch your mouth a bit will ya, everyone has his/her opinion. Tekano

GreenArrow
27th January 2005, 07:44 PM
The current banking system has no flaws in it. It's very simple to understand, and does not need to be improved. Making a "real" bank for the game will take money out of circulation, and making thieves to steal the money will replace attack units.

Our attack units steal, not out spies. Our spies spy. That's why they are called spies. Our attackers steal. I feel it would be VERY VERY VERY (yes 3 very's) WRONG if we had overlapping jobs. I feel that the only troops that should physically deal with stealing and protecting gold are attackers, and defenders.

Also, if my defenders are defending more than gold, then what else are they defending? Even in the attack log, it says how much gold was stolen. This means the SOUL purpose of attacking is for gold, and to make another form of "attacking" gets rid of people attacking all together.

Also, are we going to spend ATTACK turns so our spies can steal? That's a rhetorical question. Just trying to emphasize on the term ATTACK turn. Suggesting to steal gold using spies is to make an entirely new game that revolves around spy's and sentry's more than anything.

I really don't understand your suggestions at all. We have a banking system, and we have units that can steal gold. What are you complaining about? The game already has everything you suggested. (Yeah I just don't like your idea) If they're gonna make a physical bank, then I want a race called Jew that gets bonus's to bank percentages, AND if some1 wants to bank money they must contact a Jew, and use the Jew's bank.

If your wondering why Jews are considered to be money hungry, or cheap, it's because in Medievil times, Christians weren't allowed to ask for money back w/ interest, so the Jew's naturally took the job of a bank since it wasn't against their religion, so I believe it should be the same here. That's the only way I'm up for a bank, and if they put in a "real" bank w/ out Jews, then I'm sueing KoC for being anti-semetic, and hating agaist me. (This sounds funny. I'm not serious about any of this, but the situation would be pretty funny)

Salidos
27th January 2005, 08:44 PM
That's fine if you don't like the idea; I can respect that. Perhaps you could take things you don't like a little more seriously, though. I don't feel that preposterous, cynical sarcasm adds much of anything. In fact it hurts your own credibility.


Also, if my defenders are defending more than gold, then what else are they defending? Even in the attack log, it says how much gold was stolen.
Think a little. Besides, you are taking what I said out of context and spinning it. Your troops are defending their home; who cares if it doesn't say that anywhere?


The current banking system has no flaws in it. It's very simple to understand, and does not need to be improved. Making a "real" bank for the game will take money out of circulation...
First of all you contradicted yourself. According to the argument in your third sentence, your first sentence is wrong. The current banking system takes money out of circulation too.

Finally, I'm not complaining about anything. Perhaps that's why you're confused, because you are looking for a complaint when I only want to discuss possibilities. This is a banking thread; I am only putting ideas on it. It's fine that you think the current system is working well; that is one of the responses I asked if anyone had.

GreenArrow
27th January 2005, 09:20 PM
Think a little. Besides, you are taking what I said out of context and spinning it. Your troops are defending their home; who cares if it doesn't say that anywhere?

Ok... let's say I care that it doesn't say it any where. You said yourself it doesn't say it any where, so who are you to say that we are defending our homes? It seems as though this would add to your credabilty if it DID say it some where, but you didn't make the game. You're just a player like me. So why should you get to decide what we are defending? It's just that as a player, I noticed that attacking has 1 purpose and 1 puropse only. To steal gold.



First of all you contradicted yourself. According to the argument in your third sentence, your first sentence is wrong. The current banking system takes money out of circulation too.

You know your only half right about this. The main argument so many of us are making is that the current banking system isn't right under our noses. We have to do a little bit of thinking b4 we realize that we even have the ability to bank. This is when a difference is shown between gameplay of players. There are those that bank in weapons and get upgrades, then there are those who can't figure out they can bank in weapons and get their 3 mil gold stolen from them. It's that stupidity that helps put money into cirrculation.

Now if every1 had the option to bank right under their noses, there would be little opportunity to attack since now even the mentally challenged could figure out how to bank.

The whole reason for a bank is to have a place to safely accumulate gold so when we come back to it, it's a very large amount. Well we can already do that. That's why I don't see why we need to implement something like this when it is already in affect.

Think about the consequences a line can have about a religion the next time. Tekano

H2SO4
31st January 2005, 03:00 AM
I think u should be able to bank a percentage of ur tgb up to a certain limit determined by ur banking level.... maybe 15/20 levels... which u buy in the same way u buy spy levels.

eg. u can bank 50% of ur tgb per turn until ur bank is full.

Spies should be able to steal it on successful thieving missions, then it's not entirely out of circulation and unlike other spy missions it should cost turns.

GreenArrow
31st January 2005, 07:18 AM
Spies should be able to steal it on successful thieving missions, then it's not entirely out of circulation and unlike other spy missions it should cost turns.

Ok... how many turns? Do we get to pick a number out of 15 or something like that, and can safely assume that the more ATTACK turns we use will make our SPIES able to steal more gold? Cuz you know I was just wondering how that would work. Or would it just be a set # like it was in AGE2 with sabbing? And if it was how do you determine what to make the set #? Do you base it off of ATTACKING and just make it 15?

Also... what about resale values? Should resale values go down if a bank is implemented so we can't bank in weapons any more? I know in DT there's a bank, and the resale value is like 35%, so banking in weapons is pretty impossible. Well if that happens, and we know a weapon has been sabbed, and we know which 1, and if we sell it we get next to nothing back compared to what we paid. That would just make sabbing way too powerful.

All those questions up there are just there to make you question a bank system like that. My main beaf with the whole idea is that now we can use spies to steal gold, and they can already do so much that you take the ONLY job away from attack soldiers.

And you guys never answered this question. How does 1 spy get past 50 ARMED soldiers who are guarding the gold you believe they should be able to steal? Please keep in mind this is NOT Metal Gear Solid, and they can not snipe, stealth kill, use silencers, etc. All they have is a grappling hook, and nothing more.

The way I see it, the gold is already in the bank, and the bank is a brick box with a door, and even the floor is brick, and the building is 40 feet in the ground, and 20 feet above ground, and the ONLY door is set on the upper middle part of the wall so it appears above the ground about 6 inches, and all my defence soldiers are guarding the entrance. Apparently the only way in would be force, so how does a spy get in... and make it back alive?

Wesley Flashinpon
1st February 2005, 03:25 PM
banking=bad. autobuyers=bad. current system of buying knives=good

SlimOne
2nd February 2005, 04:18 PM
There should be a bank, it shud have a minimum which is upgradable.

And KoC is, and always shud be, about thievery not war

SataiDelenn
2nd February 2005, 09:50 PM
Well, I dislike the idea of an "official" banking system in this game (and I'm a Jew, so go figure GreenArrow..... lol ). If an "official" banking system is implemented in this game, I have no plans to use it. I will just continue to bank in knives and such as I currently do. Especially if spies can just come in and steal it from an "official" bank. What's the point of even having an "official" bank system then???

GreenArrow
3rd February 2005, 10:42 AM
Well, I dislike the idea of an "official" banking system in this game (and I'm a Jew, so go figure GreenArrow..... lol ). If an "official" banking system is implemented in this game, I have no plans to use it. I will just continue to bank in knives and such as I currently do. Especially if spies can just come in and steal it from an "official" bank. What's the point of even having an "official" bank system then???

Shalom. I'm jewish too. That's why I wanted that race to be implemented. I'm not too serious about racism and the like, so I just kinda poke fun at it. I'm actually half Jewish, so sometimes I'll say I'm Christian if I'm eating bacon or something, but when I'm not eating pig or cat-fish, I'm Jewish.

SataiDelenn
3rd February 2005, 05:03 PM
Shalom. I'm jewish too. That's why I wanted that race to be implemented. I'm not too serious about racism and the like, so I just kinda poke fun at it. I'm actually half Jewish, so sometimes I'll say I'm Christian if I'm eating bacon or something, but when I'm not eating pig or cat-fish, I'm Jewish.


Sorry to get off topic, but, oh well. lol. GreenArrow, I'm full-blooded Jewish and I don't keep Kosher. I eat sausage on pizza (double-sausage sometimes), I eat bacon, I ate pork chops for the first time in my life about 3 months or so ago, and I LOVE Shrimp and Alaskan King Crab legs, etc., etc., etc. So I wouldn't worry too much about it. Oh, something I've never understood which maybe you can clarify for me. I know the reason why Jews aren't supposed to eat pork products, but what's the deal with not being able to eat catfish?! I know why I personally don't eat it (I had it at Chili's restaurant once 2 years ago and it was REALLY good going down, but I got very sick later on. I chalk it up to it being from Chili's though and this particular restaurant was having a few problems and eventually went out of business last year... regardless though, I've been unable to eat catfish since). So, again, why aren't we supposed to eat it?

Draggar
3rd February 2005, 09:57 PM
Shalom. I'm jewish too. That's why I wanted that race to be implemented. I'm not too serious about racism and the like, so I just kinda poke fun at it. I'm actually half Jewish, so sometimes I'll say I'm Christian if I'm eating bacon or something, but when I'm not eating pig or cat-fish, I'm Jewish.

So that would make you a Jewtian or a Cathoew? :heh:

Serisouly, though (yes, it's hard for me to be serious sometimes), I think the idea of a bank is OK, but could kill the whole farming aspect.

I'd prefer to see insanely overpriced upgrades you can buy to increase your TBG.

Oh yeah, Satai, you're making me hungry.

STOP IT!!!!!!!!!!! :icon_laug

SataiDelenn
4th February 2005, 02:01 AM
So that would make you a Jewtian or a Cathoew? :heh:

Serisouly, though (yes, it's hard for me to be serious sometimes), I think the idea of a bank is OK, but could kill the whole farming aspect.

I'd prefer to see insanely overpriced upgrades you can buy to increase your TBG.

Oh yeah, Satai, you're making me hungry.

STOP IT!!!!!!!!!!! :icon_laug


lol, sorry. Wasn't my intention.

I still dislike the idea of a bank. I don't think it would really help things at all because I'd never send in a spy to someone else's bank and I wouldn't use it because gold could be stolen from it. With knives, I have nothing to worry about except the resell. Sure I lose 25% of the money, but that's better then losing more to someone else who took what I was trying to save!

GreenArrow
4th February 2005, 02:12 PM
I know the reason why Jews aren't supposed to eat pork products, but what's the deal with not being able to eat catfish?! I know why I personally don't eat it (I had it at Chili's restaurant once 2 years ago and it was REALLY good going down, but I got very sick later on. I chalk it up to it being from Chili's though and this particular restaurant was having a few problems and eventually went out of business last year... regardless though, I've been unable to eat catfish since). So, again, why aren't we supposed to eat it?

It doesn't have scales. I think it's the only fish w/ out scales, but to put it short that's why. But I could never not eat cat fish. If it's fried, it's the best damn fish ever. As for Cathoew's... please don't mix up my Christian side for a Catholic side. I know they are the same, but Catholics are weird. I'm sorry if I offended any1, but with all that prayer on order (ie: pray to mother mary to pray to jesus to pray to god) is just really weird. I never understood Catholics, and my bro married into a family of them, and they're all like Jew's are going to hell, so I don't like them very much.

But yeah, cat-fish don't have scale's and banks are bad.

SataiDelenn
4th February 2005, 04:03 PM
It doesn't have scales. I think it's the only fish w/ out scales, but to put it short that's why. But I could never not eat cat fish. If it's fried, it's the best damn fish ever. As for Cathoew's... please don't mix up my Christian side for a Catholic side. I know they are the same, but Catholics are weird. I'm sorry if I offended any1, but with all that prayer on order (ie: pray to mother mary to pray to jesus to pray to god) is just really weird. I never understood Catholics, and my bro married into a family of them, and they're all like Jew's are going to hell, so I don't like them very much.

But yeah, cat-fish don't have scale's and banks are bad.

Ah, Ok. Interesting. Well, I guess I'm a really bad Jew then cause I eat shrimp every chance I get. Shrimp cocktail with really spicy horsradish/cocktail sauce, linguine w/shrimp and broccoli in an aglioli sauce, soup with shrimp in it, egg rolls and spring rolls with shrimp in it, mixed trio stir frys with shrimp in it. Damn. I'm hungry now! lol

GreenArrow
4th February 2005, 04:51 PM
I agree. Shrimp is hella good, and banks are a really bad idea. Expecially when you got a tub of cocktail sauce... I wanna go to Red Lobster now. Good thing by b-day is coming up. I get to pick the resturaunt.

And banks are a horrible idea.

SataiDelenn
5th February 2005, 06:26 AM
Yeah, shrimp and Alaskan King Crab are absolutely awesome! (and I too agree that banks are a really bad idea ;) ). There's no need for them. That's what weapons are for!

........nah, we're not pushing the shrimp a bit far are we Green? ;) lol At some point the mods are probably going to be a bit ticked at us (if they aren't already). I think we should let this get properly back on topic before we get in real trouble. lol


So, that said, I really and truly dislike the idea of banks. I don't see a need for them. Anyone who does wish to set money aside, there's no reason they can't do it as it's already been done for the past ages and that's to invest in some sort of weaponry that is sold back later (minus 25% for the sellback) whereupon the needed upgrade is then made.

GreenArrow
5th February 2005, 01:54 PM
I don't see how the admins can get mad at us really. This is a poll about banking, and the Jews took it over, so it's only propper that WE get to continue. :thumbsup:

However if they do decide to put in a bank, it should take 30% of the money deposited away, and there should be no limit as to how much we can bank. Also, stealing would be a bad idea since it would take away the only use of attacking. I say 30% cuz then us "smart" players would still be using the knife system cuz we would only have to pay 25% of what we put in. You would easily be able to tell between a newb and a KoC veteran.

A_JuGuRnAuT
12th February 2005, 01:00 AM
i dont like the idea of banking either but they do have it in simular games and it seems to work out ok ....if you were to put in a banking i think it would be helping the bigger players even if you set it up at 5% ......so what if you set it up so when you start you could bank all the way up to lets say 50% and then when you reach a certian point on your turn based gold say like 5,000 it drops to 45% 10,000 goes to 40% and so on then it would give the lower players the chance to save and build up a bit before they get into the thick of things.....?

GreenArrow
12th February 2005, 03:26 PM
i dont like the idea of banking either...

Good enough for me.

Mihael
13th February 2005, 10:35 AM
Banking? Why? If we take a look around this can be done without have a proper system in the game.

Let's say we get about 800k TBG just spend about 600k and that's it....you are banking. Why? Cause the system used to see if we have money worth taking is taking 1 attack turn and see how much we get...if you spend 600k of 800 if you are 1 turn attacked them the amount shown to the "opponent" will be as always is to most of them unworthy of even spending 15 turns just to steal 180k.

Banking no thanks!!

WoRtEn
15th February 2005, 04:03 AM
Oh my god, this game is about atacking and steal gold... so no banks allowed if u donīt want anyone to steal gold from u try to increase your sentry so the most of player wonīt be able to check how much gold u have...
Well a bank system would ruin all the gameplay at least thatīsmy opinion of it!

maverick
17th February 2005, 04:02 AM
transfer of money shud be allowed from commander to officer and vice-versa as well

This is a separate issue. Please look harder to find an appropriate thread next time. ~VegnaBlitz

Donkey
19th February 2005, 12:09 PM
I think there should be no banks in this game and I think there should be no money transfers either because people will again make some fake accounts and transfer the gold from it to another account

maverick
19th February 2005, 10:02 PM
i agree wid u donkey

MrMastodonFarm
20th February 2005, 12:39 AM
It doesn't have scales. I think it's the only fish w/ out scales, but to put it short that's why....But yeah, cat-fish don't have scale's and banks are bad.

There are other types of fish without scales, and they are often found by banks (Riverbanks). :icon_lol:

I hate to admit it, but I find the discussion about fish and religion much more interesting that the banking one.

But to keep the moderators happy...

I agree that an official Banking system would be a bad thing. If you want to keep your gold you need to either 1) build up sentry or 2) start sleeping a lot less. I move up too quickly last age (3) and found myself in a position where I was getting attacked every 3.5 to 4.5 hours. I started getting up in the middle of the night to spend gold, then going back to sleep. I was feeling pretty pathetic.

I'm putting a lot more thought into my strategy and spending plans for the new age. I figure I have a long time until I make enough TBG to keep me awake at night.

Krystin
20th February 2005, 10:50 AM
I'm surprised at the spam that was allowed in this thread? And the seafood posts have made me hungry since I haven't ate yet, but out of place in this thread. Since it has gotten back on track I won't close it, and no official warnings since posts are old.

Please keep it on topic.

Monsuco
22nd February 2005, 04:06 PM
No banks please. You realize the way you earn money is to attack and take it.

STARBLASTER
22nd February 2005, 06:04 PM
You can't play this game 24/7
You sleep and wake to find all your TBG gone.
You attack here and there and might get lucky enough to find
some TBG while their army sleeps.
This banking in knives etc is what most of us are now doing.
( anyone else noticed that the pickings are getting a little slim ).
No wonder 'auto-buyers' were invented.
Why not have a 'banking' race ?
They charge you to hold your TBG.
They do not lend.
Their vaults are not attackable.
You buy your armaments etc by withdrawals.
They finance their own armies out of the money they earn
by charging other armies to hold their TBG.
I am only suggesting this coz I am low ranking and woke
to find my coffers emptied out while I slept.

Charges could be settable by individual banks.
We could have a list of banks.

Set your TBG to go to the bank while you sleep.
Far better to be robbed by a banker ( we are all used to this anyway )
than be looted while you sleep.
Absolutely better than having one of my sentries drag me
out of bed.