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Valheru_Prince
17th March 2014, 02:34 AM
We all noticed that there is a drop in player amount. One of the reasons this game does not draw more players is the fact that joining halfway through an age is just no fun.

How about we introduce Gold, Silver and Bronze divisions.

Gold Division are the players that sign up at the start of an age. Say the first 4 weeks or so. Their names are regular color on the battlefield and they get normal start gold.

Silver Division would be the players that sign up week 5-8 and their names will be a different color. Slightly higher amount of gold to start with, perhaps reduced upgrade costs.

Bronze would then be for the player who sign up week 9 or later.

This way people that join later can still feel competitive in their division and players that cannot commit a full age could choose to play only a few weeks and aim for best ranked in their division.
The bonusus for the players that sign up later could be increased TFF, more start gold or cheaper upgrades. But handing them more turns would only encourage fake accounts used for sell off purposes so that would not be preferred.
At the end of age the overall victory is for the Gold Division winner ofcourse but I think it will be more fun in general. (Just think of people selling right before a new division starts who want to reset and such)

FallenOne
17th March 2014, 03:50 AM
i like the idea.
not sure if i like the fact they'd start with a boost just because they started later especially if they'd still be allowed to attack/sab/sell to higher division targets.
unless the boost is negligible.

TiTaN
17th March 2014, 08:35 AM
i like the idea.
not sure if i like the fact they'd start with a boost just because they started later especially if they'd still be allowed to attack/sab/sell to higher division targets.
unless the boost is negligible.
The idea valheru came up with is great. It doesn't affect the one who has started from the start of an age. By the 3rd of 4th week most of the players will have a million tff with or without clicks. It will at least keep players going. But the only thing the game should offer is some extra start up gold. Reduced upgrades and increased tff will make it slightly unbalanced. But that's just my opinion. A great idea for the time being. :icon7:

Klayton_Calix
17th March 2014, 09:16 AM
I like this idea. Looks like it may have some kinks in it, but I am on board with this. It will be good for players joining in late & will be able to jump right into the fun.

FallenOne
17th March 2014, 11:40 AM
The idea valheru came up with is great. It doesn't affect the one who has started from the start of an age. By the 3rd of 4th week most of the players will have a million tff with or without clicks. It will at least keep players going. But the only thing the game should offer is some extra start up gold. Reduced upgrades and increased tff will make it slightly unbalanced. But that's just my opinion. A great idea for the time being. :icon7:


yup i agree; i'd say no to the reduced upgrade and tff costs as well.
i find the start up gold good enough; i don't mind extra but it can't be too much otherwise the reset trick could be used.

Kronikdeath
17th March 2014, 11:56 AM
I think this would work if the game had more players. I think players that start after a certain point can get a free boost.
Example: 500k soldiers or 1k turns
Depending how late in the age you start you can get a bigger boost package.

FallenOne
17th March 2014, 01:54 PM
i think turns would have to be kept normal like when u start out otherwise that sort of boost would invite resets.

andyt683
17th March 2014, 07:10 PM
Different divisions? Doable. Almost incredibly easy, honestly.

Boosts? Hrm. That'd need a lot of playtesting and tuning to even get CLOSE to balancing against boost reset chains.

Kronikdeath
17th March 2014, 07:47 PM
Every idea will have it's ups and it's downs. I am thinking roc emails all former active users emails and tries to make a huge comeback age that would be fun! Imagine a few thousand players! Then the game could build up from there :D

Klayton_Calix
17th March 2014, 08:21 PM
True, but said email accounts could just put the emails in the spam box depending on the filters used & how it is detected.

MFnBonsai
18th March 2014, 12:48 AM
Personally do not believe they should get any incentive for starting late.... Otherwise players won't bother playing like now and will just start late and only the hardcore players will be left....

Give them bonus turns on start up and they will just use them during zombies and become big sell accounts SOV wise....
Give them tff bonus and you are saying screw you to those that clicked their asses off....
Give them upgrade bonus and same thing as above....

It isn't like the ages are overly long anyway.... Someone starts late besides not having many turns they can still do well because of zombies....

The game lost players due to games like this being old school and players growing up.... Excess speed rounds.... Middle age reset everyone lost everything....

While I can see the need to get new players giving them added bonuses for starting late makes hardcore players feel like they are doing shit only to have some not do anything and gaining an advantage somewhat....

FallenOne
18th March 2014, 02:11 AM
basically what bon said; especially the point about the game being old and players growing up. people either get bored or just move on to newer things.
i don't think we'll see 1000's of players again.
i think boosts are ok if they are very small. (but definitely no cheaper upgrades unless a race is implemented/modified to benefit from that)

Valheru_Prince
18th March 2014, 06:25 AM
Bonuses would not screw over the players that play a full age as the players who start late can't get the overall victory anyway.

And I think it wouldn't be too bad to decrease upgrade costs or give a tff boost. These things cannot be sold off immediately and would require players to be active to build SOV.

If you hand people a lot more turns at the start people will reset, get an alliance member to spy for them and sell off before resetting again. Same goes for a huge bonus in gold.

And Bon, I do realise these games are oldschool and that the players from back in the days are busy with other stuff now. But that doesn't mean we should just be happy with memories of the days that are in the past. And it's not about rewarding lazy players that start late. It's about giving people that accidentaly stumble across this game mid age a chance to actually participate so that they hopefully stick around and play a full age from the start once there is a reset.

MFnBonsai
18th March 2014, 08:01 AM
If you hadn't noticed that is what zombies are for.... zombies give players that don't play or haven't played for long a chance to build an account....

take a look at the battlefield during a zombie event.... players can slay billions during that event and they come often.... Ofcourse players that have turns are the ultimate winners during a zombie event but where does that gold end up anyway.... sold off to others....

I have no problems with trying to get new players into the game but it really is a lost cause.... I don't say that out of spite or anything but seriously with xbox's ps3's and games that are visually more appealing and the ability to run around and shoot other people in other countries games like these die.... and all that are left playing are those diehard players that enjoy the friends they have made....

While I applaud your ideas I just do not feel that rewarding new players with cheaper upgrades or turns or tff boost is what the game needs especially when it could be abused....

TiTaN
18th March 2014, 10:21 AM
While I applaud your ideas I just do not feel that rewarding new players with cheaper upgrades or turns or tff boost is what the game needs especially when it could be abused....

He is right on this part. It might be abused. Every idea has its limitations Valheru. Yours is great but it will be misused sooner or later. I think the best we can do now is go only with the divisions and rank them with it. That will make 4 rank stats. Overall,Gold,Silver and Bronze rankings.

Whishy
18th March 2014, 03:43 PM
It's a smart idea - On the topic of boosts, I know everyone is thinking in terms of a set TFF/turns/starting gold/etc. number, but why not instead give those who sign up in say the 'Silver Division' a boost of the average TFF/turns/starting gold/etc. in (for example) the 25th-50th percentile of the 'Gold Division', and those who sign up in the 'Bronze Division' a similar weighted average from the 'Silver Division'. The lower percentile ensures that this boost is far from overwhelming but at least gives them a better shot at competing for the entire age rather than giving up.

Of course if you sign up on day 27 you get nothing, but on day 28 you get a mild boost, that's not exactly fair but something that would obviously have to be worked out. Even if every account that signed up after day 28 received a boost of some sort of weighted average, those directly prior to the 'boost deadline' would be screwed..

andyt683
19th March 2014, 07:41 AM
Adding starting gold wouldn't be a good idea at all. I've learned this from experience.

I toyed with tracking the turns that have elapsed since the start of the game, so if you start on the 1400th turn, you have 1400+(initial turn amount) turns to spend off the bat. It's "fair", especially if capped around 2000, but turns already feel a little too plentiful. I'd hate to see the battlefield if anyone could come in at 2000 turns.

Giving soldiers would be a problem, I feel. Again, a base UP * turns elapsed, but I'm not sure how I feel about this.

I'm open to testing something like this, but it's such a tricky area that I'm not comfortable with trying to balance it even in a limited beta. It'd need a lot of players testing, and frankly, we don't get that around here. We either get a lot of players playing it like a real age, and get upset when things break (its a beta!), or we get about 4 players that log in every now and then because the main game takes too much concentration (lol)

FallenOne
19th March 2014, 08:21 AM
yeh with a beta running alongside the real age; there is a lot more concentration on the main.

i completely agree about the turns; some accounts aren't active at all until near the end and burn them for billions just to sell off.
i think there needs to be some sort of way (activity/clicks/steals/messages anything) to keep them active and if not they don't gain any turns

not sure about a turns limits even though it'd be benefit someone like me as i slay here and there but it would negatively effect the huge accounts who detrain after and lose out on turns (then again they are the ones who wreck the steal amounts near the end alongside those inactive accounts :P but that will probably happen all the time)

Valheru_Prince
19th March 2014, 09:24 AM
@ Whishy A weighed average would not be fair as well. Heavy clickers would raise the average so the silver division would start with more soldiers than gold division players that would not have clicked but have slain their way to the top. We should not try to make the silver division a division that can compete with the overall victory, but rather make it so that when they put a lot of effort in it they can compete with the people in the gold division that only log in once in a while. And I understand the problem of people signing in on day 27 and not getting a boost, but if they think it's worth it they can always reset and start a day later.

@ Andy More starting gold is a big problem as it would be really tempting to create multis and sell to a main. But I don't really get whats wrong about giving people more TFF to start with. Anyone will get the first few unit upgrades pretty fast. So suppose you give the players 1k soldiers per day they missed at first. It's not a huge boost, clickers can do it in a few minutes even but it does give them a TBG that build up gold in a decent rate and forces newer players to at least log in not to get hit and to start with the cheaper weapons. Also, you can't easily sell TFF off. You need to bank the TBG for a while before a sell becomes interesting.

@ Bonsai I know you are probably right about getting new players but i'm not sure about the opinion you have with the zombie event.
1 Players that are not online often will most likely miss the event as well (it's only announced 30 minutes in advance or so)
2 You can only steal billions when you have the spy to see the gold and the SA to break high defences (Big defences don;t have that many zombies anyway but still)
3 You will be competing for gold with players that know who have a lot of zombies (either through personal experience, or from alliance intell) and who know what amount is considered good gold. When I was still playing slayer I wouldn't hit a lot of the targets that held far more than usual because they still wouldn;t hold as much as some of my favorite farms during a normal day.
So I don't really see how newer players can close the gap to the more active players when they all compete for the same gold but the older players are far better equipped to make the event a succes.

andyt683
19th March 2014, 09:33 AM
@ Andy But I don't really get whats wrong about giving people more TFF to start with.

Dead accounts litter our database. Now imagine if most of those dead accounts spent 3 weeks at inflated TFFs what that'd do to our gold economy (which is already inflated). At least with the gold boost, it'd be one and done. This is the gift that can keep on giving. Heck, someone with a proxy, 15 minutes, and some spare email addresses could wreak havoc on the round.

Kronikdeath
19th March 2014, 10:35 AM
Another idea could be to make a player earn an incentive. So after the age is on for 6 weeks new accounts that come in are able to earn 2 credits per click for 14 days. That way they can jump start there account and earn back some ground. This gives them a chance to catch up with the early activations.

MajorDark
19th March 2014, 12:27 PM
I still don't see the point in giving people who start later in the age a way to catch up to people who started playing at the start of that age. If they want to be on equal ground, they should start when everyone else does. This is the same as the old "people who don't click should be able to compete with those who do click" argument, don't give anything to anyone for free.

SonicRage
19th March 2014, 04:46 PM
I agree with Bon and MD.
Why give them a boost for starting late. Make them click and work for it like the rest it's not that hard to catch up if you really want to.

You just need to commit to it there's a tool called recruiting to help people grow. Don't click don't catch.

And Zombies everyone's fav event you can't slay almost the entire value out of some accounts and get a top 100 account within a week.

We also have a daily bonus system rewarding everyone. I personally use it for turns and then slay great amounts.

I just don't see the value on giving anyone a bonus for starting late. But the idea of gold silver and bronze is great. Make it set pages e.g gold page 1-3. Silver 4-6. And so on.

Whishy
19th March 2014, 07:19 PM
@ Whishy A weighed average would not be fair as well. Heavy clickers would raise the average so the silver division would start with more soldiers than gold division players that would not have clicked but have slain their way to the top. We should not try to make the silver division a division that can compete with the overall victory, but rather make it so that when they put a lot of effort in it they can compete with the people in the gold division that only log in once in a while. And I understand the problem of people signing in on day 27 and not getting a boost, but if they think it's worth it they can always reset and start a day later.

You misunderstand, I said an average based on the 25th-50th percentile. Which means the top 50% of accounts (ie clickers) and the bottom 25% (ie those who don't ever sign in) are not including in the average that would hypothetically go towards the bonus newer accounts receive. Otherwise you're right, heavy clickers would create a bonus higher than what some gold division players would have. It keeps it from being extreme and doesn't allow a new account to suddenly be a major factor in the game right off the bat. Just a small boost to keep them worlds behind the top accounts, rather than worlds behind everyone else. It at least gives newer accounts a chance at competing with the mildly-active accounts rather than being behind any active account and just living off the TBG of inactives.

Everyone's making good points, if they're active and work hard anyone can catch up late, but a bonus system may help keep newer players for longer.

MFnBonsai
19th March 2014, 09:46 PM
Since we already have these:-

Daily activity bonus
Zombies
Players able to send cc's
Selloffs
Extra clicks if the clicklist is low

There isn't a point to giving players arriving late an added bonus just for finding the game....

As for giving them 2 clicks for every click they do.... hypothetically henry joins late.... gets 2 clicks for every 1 he does.... kicks everyone off the clicklist which he was able to do constantly.... gets sells from peeps that he makes deals with not to mention players that he gets to join him and he wins....

Kinda kicks you in the ass if you were here from the start and due to his clicking ability he outdoes you just because he can....

^^ Just shows you that not every idea is a good idea....

Players that join late should have to work just as hard as anyone else that is playing to win and really shouldn't expect to win.... but with all the above a top account is possible if they want to put work into it....

Shit shouldn't just be given to them because as I have stated before it will only piss off those that play this game age in age out....

The tiers I guess is a good idea if you want to introduce it but everything else I still do not agree with it regardless of how you try and sugarcoat it....

Valheru_Prince
20th March 2014, 02:30 AM
And Zombies everyone's fav event you can't slay almost the entire value out of some accounts and get a top 100 account within a week.


Has anyone tried to do this? Cause I'm not even getting close to top 100 trying to play like a player who logs in a few times a day. And keep in mind that when I was playing active from the start it was easy to keep top 50 overall with SA and spy both in the top 10. But I suppose added bonuses won't be necessary when people can still feel that they are doing good compared to others who have played for about as long as they have.

Carlos
20th March 2014, 02:37 AM
Since we already have these:-

Daily activity bonus
Zombies
Players able to send cc's
Selloffs
Extra clicks if the clicklist is low

There isn't a point to giving players arriving late an added bonus just for finding the game....

As for giving them 2 clicks for every click they do.... hypothetically henry joins late.... gets 2 clicks for every 1 he does.... kicks everyone off the clicklist which he was able to do constantly.... gets sells from peeps that he makes deals with not to mention players that he gets to join him and he wins....

Kinda kicks you in the ass if you were here from the start and due to his clicking ability he outdoes you just because he can....

^^ Just shows you that not every idea is a good idea....

Players that join late should have to work just as hard as anyone else that is playing to win and really shouldn't expect to win.... but with all the above a top account is possible if they want to put work into it....

Shit shouldn't just be given to them because as I have stated before it will only piss off those that play this game age in age out....

The tiers I guess is a good idea if you want to introduce it but everything else I still do not agree with it regardless of how you try and sugarcoat it....

henry started over 1 week late and he still managed to outgrow everyone by millions and ended with more than 2x #2 in all stats lol

Carnage
23rd March 2014, 11:14 AM
best solution:

gold, silver and bronze leagues start after a certain period of time. By default when a player hits ranks, the ranks are filtered to only show players in their league giving players who join part way through a way to measure performance against equals. That way there is no need to give extra bonuses to players to allow them to compete with players who are out of their league

Kronikdeath
23rd March 2014, 01:31 PM
best solution:

gold, silver and bronze leagues start after a certain period of time. By default when a player hits ranks, the ranks are filtered to only show players in their league giving players who join part way through a way to measure performance against equals. That way there is no need to give extra bonuses to players to allow them to compete with players who are out of their league

This is true. The problem is the game only has a few hundred users so it would be hard to start breaking them into different divisions

Valheru_Prince
24th March 2014, 03:29 AM
It's the same as the LeMans race Kronik.

1 Race, multiple competitions. You can race anyone but you know the faster cars with bigger budgets will overtake you once every few laps. But you can still finish first in your own class :)

DN_DeadKitten
24th March 2014, 04:57 AM
Has anyone tried to do this? Cause I'm not even getting close to top 100 trying to play like a player who logs in a few times a day.

Yes.
Top 100.
Started late too, I just log in, pillage some booty and log out until I get bored or remember it exists again.

Clicks
Given (+) 1,589
Received (-) 1,979

Getting top 100 is trivial, it's just a matter of stat-balancing. THe idea that it's some kind of accomplishment is vestigial of the KoC days when top 1-500 out of 200,000+ accounts was special.

Zombies is ridiculous.

Valheru_Prince
24th March 2014, 05:07 AM
Dafuq?
Strike: (+14%) 1,278,102,672 #204
Defense: 720,000,240 #141
Spy: 5,846,936,400 #163
Sentry: 4,807,627,200 #155

Fairly Balanced. Rank 165 overall. Been at it for about 4 weeks now. Not in try-hard mode but still...nowhere near a top 100 finish.
I suppose by starting late you mean a week or mayb 2 after the age started?

en51tm
24th March 2014, 05:38 AM
It's a lot easier if you are in an alliance and have people who can find hits for you.

Carlos
24th March 2014, 06:13 AM
You can easily end top10-15 without clicking at all

DN_DeadKitten
24th March 2014, 06:25 AM
Dafuq?
Strike: (+14%) 1,278,102,672 #204
Defense: 720,000,240 #141
Spy: 5,846,936,400 #163
Sentry: 4,807,627,200 #155

Fairly Balanced. Rank 165 overall. Been at it for about 4 weeks now. Not in try-hard mode but still...nowhere near a top 100 finish.
I suppose by starting late you mean a week or mayb 2 after the age started?

My stats are a fair amount higher than yours, to be fair, and I was full-SA before building sentry cause Kronik's asshattery got Bon going. I've pillaged double my total income, so that helps.

Damned if I know when, just late, didn't do much of anything, and I'd gone days without logging in on several occasions.


It's a lot easier if you are in an alliance and have people who can find hits for you.

I have no one reconning or finding hits for me.

TiTaN
24th March 2014, 07:31 AM
If there are divisions. Race divisions would be nice too :)

DN_DeadKitten
24th March 2014, 08:57 AM
If there are divisions. Race divisions would be nice too :)

They'd have to change the name to Apartheid of Chaos, then.

Valheru_Prince
24th March 2014, 04:09 PM
My stats are a fair amount higher than yours, to be fair, and I was full-SA before building sentry cause Kronik's asshattery got Bon going. I've pillaged double my total income, so that helps.

Damned if I know when, just late, didn't do much of anything, and I'd gone days without logging in on several occasions.
I have no one reconning or finding hits for me.

First account I played with I slayed like almost 4 times my income (only clicked 20k so TBG wasn;t that much but still) and had no-one spying for me as well. Back then I could keep up pretty decent (ranked top 40 with focus on SA and Spy). But starting halfway the age (or maybe even later) and trying to do things on your own will not get you in top 100 it seems. Thats why I was so interested in your accountresults Kitten. But I suppose it could be done with heavy clicking and some spy help but thats probably not an investment that new players would make soon as it will get them nowhere (atm).


If there are divisions. Race divisions would be nice too :)

That's something you can see now already. Just check who is the highest ranked "insert race".

Kronikdeath
24th March 2014, 04:22 PM
Also to add valheru was getting sabbed hard as he was playing on his own. I would send him logs but still I could have potentially took billions off his strike weekly so it's not that easy slaying on your own

Carlos
24th March 2014, 06:17 PM
Gold Lost to Attacks 288,438,106,465 Gold

without clicking, playing actively or anyone helping me I managed to give about 260b in sells. Please, dont say its not possible to end top100

Kronikdeath
24th March 2014, 07:28 PM
Most of that gold came from grave robbing and that sell you caught of mine :p

Carlos
25th March 2014, 01:02 AM
And isn't that part of the game, tard?

FallenOne
25th March 2014, 03:30 AM
yep they count.
inter-sells however do not count (if u received any).

Kronikdeath
25th March 2014, 07:50 AM
The grave robbing makes the game easy for late starters. If I activate at the beginning of next age and use my daily bonus on turns I could just wait til I build up 4k turns with 2-3weeks to go and start slaying every grave event and rank top 50 easy maybe top 25. Your right it's part of the game but you don't have to boast, anyone with a low tff can burn turns in the grave event.

FallenOne
25th March 2014, 08:13 AM
it should:

1) be reduced to 100 gold per zombie
2) have a shorter duration when it is the active event (like sdm or cyanide)
3) be rarer (like sdm or cyanide though the latter comes up more than sdm)

any combination of the 3 or all 3.

gold rush should be increased from 7% to like 20-25% lasting for at least 15 mins up to 20ish. (atm u will only build up one turn of gold so it feels a bit wasted)

zombies wouldn't be such a huge problem if there was a way to stop people building up turns when being so inactive then burning them all later to sell or rank but i don't know how that could be implemented.
turn cap is an idea but not sure how that'd go down.


i think banzai should implement a 1000% covert death rate. (or at least have it say covert deaths will align to soldier deaths for the duration of the event especially if this isn't going to be implemented as a general thing)
so many accounts (myself included) don't bother building DA or much of it because probes aren't so deadly on the coverts unless uv got around 1.5m ish and even then banzai is the only time u can get some serious kills on them.

Kronikdeath
25th March 2014, 10:36 AM
@fallenone you seem to bring up covert casualties quite a bit. In banzai event I get probed and each time I get 5x1 I get like 75k coverts killed sometimes more

TiTaN
25th March 2014, 10:54 AM
@fallenone you seem to bring up covert casualties quite a bit. In banzai event I get probed and each time I get 5x1 I get like 75k coverts killed sometimes more

Nearly 120k to exact :p

FallenOne
25th March 2014, 12:07 PM
@fallenone you seem to bring up covert casualties quite a bit. In banzai event I get probed and each time I get 5x1 I get like 75k coverts killed sometimes more


yup i do but tbf u have over 6m trained in.

i have 2m ish in coverts and when i get hit with someone who has multiples more SA than my DA i only lose 2k in coverts.
all u have to do is build a bit of DA and that keeps players away and the covert deaths greatly reduce.

i should lose more than 2k coverts when somebody with huge multiples over my DA attacks.
the death rates would be fine if there were more players but as it is; even if an alliance gangs up you can forget even considering probing someone with around 1m ish coverts as they'd lose less than 1k coverts a hit with no DA (outside bonzai) but if they had that many in soldiers their losses would run up to 4-5k.

i just think probes should become a more useful tool in war; it seems underused atm.

Kronikdeath
25th March 2014, 03:00 PM
Yeah true, but you pay a price (loss of tbg) to train the coverts so it seems alright that they are well protected. Untrained soldiers yield more casualties... I think this seems fair. Also if you are looking to be destructive with kills always probe in banzai ;)

Klayton_Calix
26th March 2014, 09:30 AM
GR has random durations. I have seen short GRs lasting less than 10min & some lasting 20min.

To lower it because people build upturns for them is a bad idea all around.

So what if someone saves up turns? It's a valid strategy that anyone can employ.

I see them more often towards EOA than during the age anyway & I kinda like that. Makes things more interesting when the rankings could change because of GR events.