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MeNoSe
29th December 2004, 06:45 PM
I just wanted to say that the ops in the IRC room do NOT kick for fun. We kick for a reason, mainly for you guys breaking rules, IE swearing, masking, spamming, recruiting, etc... We rarely kick for "fun"(IE kicking our friends, not new people) and if you believe it is for fun(when we kick new people), you are vastly mistaken. Please feel free to PM me on IRC with questions or comments.

Nick: FryMan

boriszima
29th December 2004, 10:54 PM
^ newb go back to your lik cave in koc and kick whoever you want. thats why the room never gets popular cuz all you guys do is kikc and ban every single users. btw was this a reply to somebody or just a random post ?

phoenixphyre999
29th December 2004, 11:00 PM
the ops in the IRC room do NOT kick for fun.

We rarely kick for "fun"
Self-contradiction much? :whistilin

Clone
29th December 2004, 11:27 PM
I don't think of it as much as you just "kicking for fun", as much as over-exaggerating rule breaking. I mean for a simple spam, you guys ban a poor noob. If someone even slightly breaks the rules, baam! he is banned. It seems all you guys do is wait for someone to go borderline, so you can abuse your op powers and kick everyone.

I still do not know why I was banned. I have my theories, but its best not to get into it.

boriszima
30th December 2004, 01:27 AM
hehe for real clone. you are a mod here on GUA for koc section and yet got newbered by one of those scripts like (Banned 75 caps detected, 69% allowed) just really funny.
oh yeah, one of other worst things, those [censored] put +m (moderation) so only voiced and above can speak. so people who came to ask questions cant even speak. and then ops ask "hm its quiet , lets keep it that way, muahaha" I just hope that after aman came and took control of the room, he will ban you all newbs from that room and inlist some respectful ones, not some people who download bots and run it. althought it has a hanful of smart ops, rest are.. they know

Shadowfox
30th December 2004, 01:39 AM
Well anyway if and admin could see this:

Most alliances are changing servers due to the Abusive ChatChannel IRCOps!
This server is new and is called Cyanide-X!
Relentless allready moved, Phoenix allready moved, a lot of smaller alliances are following ...
The KingsOfChaos channel on that server is now owned by Remco- and we hope a lot of people will come and visit us there!

* To StrikerClan: Move your channel to that new server too! Once the big three are on the new server everyone will follow! Moving goes quite fast and without glitches ...!
I personaly hope to see you all there!

boriszima
30th December 2004, 01:53 AM
yeah i heard a lot about it as well, the abusiveness and stuff. ther are thousands of servers, so to move its not so hard.

Shadowfox
30th December 2004, 02:03 AM
No it isn't and the Cyanide-X owners are really a bunch of great buds ...
They are quite active and they visit some channels once i a while :)

Tekano
30th December 2004, 04:06 AM
lol menose, lots of ops definetely kick for fun or moderate the room for fun, just like boris said, so don't say things we already know that are not true. we've been around for over 1.5 year and we know how you do.

Shadowfox
30th December 2004, 04:45 AM
And do we care?

No most people who've been around on KoC more then 2 months and who have been maybe 5 time on that channel just don't go back there ...

BiZzy-BoNe
30th December 2004, 04:49 AM
i gues he wants to save his own ass by making this topic :)

Anyway, i think i will close it soon because it's useless and it can start flame wars etc.

Shadowfox
30th December 2004, 04:56 AM
Good thinking ....

he said what he needed to say and people still don't agree ...
He can't don anything except try and prove we are wrong on the channel itself ...
And if no-one is coming anymore then it's just your own fault!

Poyzinblud
30th December 2004, 06:11 AM
Grr... I hate mods who kick for fun. What are they? Bored? Do they find amusement in our mundane sufferings? If you're bored and take pleasure in suffering, grab a magnifying glass and find in anthill. Enjoy! :rr:

Still bored? Get wasted.

Baldwin
30th December 2004, 06:29 AM
Well I guess it was a reply to my thread. Anyway it was simple I posed a question the guys with a + couldn't answer the rest also couldn't. So, what do you do then, you ask an op, but apparently that is not allowed either, so you get kicked.

Haplo
30th December 2004, 08:03 AM
lol menose, lots of ops definetely kick for fun or moderate the room for fun, just like boris said, so don't say things we already know that are not true. we've been around for over 1.5 year and we know how you do.


I never kick for fun. Just kick when people reallly are either breaking a whole bunch of rules or just act idiotic. :P And hey I do help most people that are on that channel. :) Though some of the kicks I might not fully agree with but ah well.

Remco-
30th December 2004, 08:16 AM
lol Boris... the Caps script doesn't BAN, it just kicks...
Besides that bans are for 1 hour, they don't stay on longer, unless you are repetively breaking the rules, which are in my opinion quite simple, and get on a banlist.

We don't kick for fun and the kicking the voiced people can do have been reduced drastically.

Tekano, I have been on longer than that and your viewpoint is wrong.
We can't help it that a lot of the people are too immature to behave like a normal human being and just come on to flood, spam recruit, be annoying and what not.

Remco

KillerCarbs
30th December 2004, 08:27 AM
I just want to know why they kick. I mean nothing personal, but I think that if you kick off half the mods. You would be way better off! I mean think about it is their anyone checking to make sure the warnings are justified, and not just some personal crusade? With so many moderators. They could get "confused" and mark you rep down, because you offended them! I have nothing against people in power, but when they do not use their power responsibaly. It means nothing except that they are sticking crazy, and if they are "bored" then they should get a couple of beers to make them unbored! :whistilin

Zap
30th December 2004, 08:40 AM
I am never on that channle, so I really don't know whats going on in there

but the way it sounds, then maybe some new ops or some clear guidelines for how and when the ops are allowd to ban/kick

Remco-
30th December 2004, 08:50 AM
If an OP or Voice is really abusing their power then (s)he will get warned or the AOp/VOp and/or kick power will get removed.
You can PM me or email me at kramer@quicknet.nl with proof of case(s) of abuse.

Please profide proof when you make accusations.

Remco

(I think this thread can be closed now)

Tau
30th December 2004, 10:06 AM
I've been on the KoC channel, and while I may not agree with all the kicks / bans on there it's a hard job. There are plenty of people coming on flooding and spamming that DO deserve to be banned, and unfortunately in an effort to stop them other people get caught up.

It's just the same as happens here with IP banning. Sometimes very persistant members will keep signing up, making use of the fact that their ISP doesn't give them a static IP address. If it comes down to it we have to IP ban whole ranges, which inevitably starts to affect other people.

Before you criticise, try getting a chatroom that attracts that many young teenagers who are only interesting in getting some link or other clicked and see how long you last before you go crazy and just want to ban the world from the internet ;)

MeNoSe
30th December 2004, 10:20 AM
Grr... I hate mods who kick for fun. What are they? Bored? Do they find amusement in our mundane sufferings? If you're bored and take pleasure in suffering, grab a magnifying glass and find in anthill. Enjoy! :rr:

Still bored? Get wasted.


Please, find me an example of a recent kick that was for "fun"

Oh, and listen to Tau, he's a smart man. He actually KNOWS how chatrooms and forums work. And how hard of a job it is. The rules of the chatroom are not our own. They were set in place by Aman, set so that an 8 year old could chat peacefully without being subject to racsit homophobic behavior. If you don't believe me, there is is 8 year old in the chat as i am typing this. Just because you may enjoy typing the word fuck shit bitch etc etc....Doesn't mean that the parents of the 8 year old who are probably observing them as they are in the room enjoy seeing those words appear.

Shadowfox
30th December 2004, 10:31 AM
MeNoSe don't try to talk yourself out of this ...
You are one of those IRC ops who kick for fun, I can't give an example because I never go there anymore ...
Guess that more and more players aren't coming back to your channel ...

MeNoSe
30th December 2004, 10:33 AM
MeNoSe don't try to talk yourself out of this ...
You are one of those IRC ops who kick for fun, I can't give an example because I never go there anymore ...
Guess that more and more players aren't coming back to your channel ...


How would you know that i kick for fun when you specifically said, you never go there?

KillerCarbs
30th December 2004, 10:34 AM
Can you guarentee that they will lose their power? If you can't than this whole thing is bull crap.

MeNoSe
30th December 2004, 10:42 AM
When they kick for "fun" They will lose their power, when was the last time you guys were even IN the room? We have changed the Aop list dramatically over the past few months.

H2SO4
30th December 2004, 12:10 PM
The Koc channel still exists? You surprise me. :faintthud

MeNoSe
30th December 2004, 12:30 PM
Indeed, it does exist. And we WERE taking care of the abusive ops, but now that Aman randomly came back, and Nfs gave him control over the channel again, our power is greatly limited when it comes to changing things.

boriszima
30th December 2004, 01:21 PM
I just wanted to say that the ops in the IRC room do NOT kick for fun. We kick for a reason, mainly for you guys breaking rules, IE swearing, masking, spamming, recruiting, etc... We rarely kick for "fun" and if you believe it is for fun, you are vastly mistaken. Please feel free to PM me on IRC with questions or comments.

Nick: FryMan

menose- did you read what you said in your original post ? you are the one who clearly stated that "we[voices/ops] kick for fun" which means that you[you and others] do do it. therefore stop backtracking.

tekano- hehe indeed man, 1.5 years and everytime i go there i get kicked/banned.

some fun kickes/bans not true quotes

boriszima- so who is #one in koc
[boriszima is banned/kick for advertisment] i mean come on, wtf[which would also get me kicked] is that ? all i asked who is ranked one
----
boriszima- JFK ?
[boriszima is kicked for excessive caps, 75% dedicted, 69% allowed]
i mean come on its not my fault his name has all caps.

remco-maybe you are good, but people who are given powers are very well you know menose type.

oh yeah, i heard aman came and took over control of the room. i should send him a pm showing that most of people there should be removed from op/vop lists.

tau- yeah its hard to maintain the channel free of spam and flood, but when normal conversation is happening and one of ops kicks cuz they do not agree with your viewpoint, thats just freaking blows.

Tekano
30th December 2004, 03:32 PM
I've been on the KoC channel, and while I may not agree with all the kicks / bans on there it's a hard job.

offcourse it's a hard job, but taking advantage of people using op powers isn't something an operator should do. and you should know (compared ops to forum mods) about that.

some of the #kingsofchaos ops just love to have fun with other ops even if the normals suffer because of that.

Remco-
30th December 2004, 04:33 PM
Provide us with proof. Unless I see proof no action of any kind will be taken. Actually I don't think you can say ANYTHING about the channel without some proof.

If someone posts some logs here tell me and I'll have a look, if not this will be the last time I visited this thread.

Remco

MeNoSe
30th December 2004, 04:44 PM
As i said, provide us with proof of these "false" kicks and we can help you, with out this, we can not help.

boriszima
30th December 2004, 05:33 PM
Provide us with proof. Unless I see proof no action of any kind will be taken. Actually I don't think you can say ANYTHING about the channel without some proof.

If someone posts some logs here tell me and I'll have a look, if not this will be the last time I visited this thread.

Remco

here is your proof smart pants


[15:59] * Now talking in #kingsofchaos
[15:59] * Topic is '[- ENGLISH ONLY! -][- Do NOT PM OPs! -][- Type !rules for channel rules and !help for basic gameplay info -][- http://forums.chatchannel.org/viewforum.php?f=6 | http://donations.chatchannel.org/ -][- Do NOT post your link here. You WILL get sabotaged -]'
[15:59] * Set by Düffman on Mon Dec 27 00:15:54
[15:59] -KingsOfChaos- KingsOfChaos is back! Please, no trading of links of any kind in here. Thanks.
[15:59] -Compassghost- To access the Kings of Chaos News Ticker, type .kocnews - To read the channel topic, type .topic - To read the rules, type .rules
[15:59] <Lord-Odysseus> lol, i got my PS2 hooked up playin Grand Theft Auto: San Andres
[15:59] <boriszima> whos is #one in kingsofchaos, i cant access it ?
[15:59] * Remco- sets mode: +b *!*@=etskyj-75-926-662-945.dsl.lsan03.pacbell.net
[15:59] * You were kicked by _lennahctahc (Banned)
[15:59] * Attempting to rejoin channel #kingsofchaos
System: Attempting to unban you from «#kingsofchaos»
=================

lol you are the one who did it, shame on you.


==============
[16:01] <boriszima> JFK ?
[16:01] <+Kate> The game's users, 90 percent of them male
[16:01] * You were kicked by Remco- (EXCESSIVE CAPS - 75% caps detected. Max. 69% allowed.)
[16:01] * Attempting to rejoin channel #kingsofchaos
[16:01] * Rejoined channel #kingsofchaos
[16:01] * Topic is '[- ENGLISH ONLY! -][- Do NOT PM OPs! -][- Type !rules for channel rules and !help for basic gameplay info -][- http://forums.chatchannel.org/viewforum.php?f=6 | http://donations.chatchannel.org/ -][- Do NOT post your link here. You WILL get sabotaged -]'
[16:01] * Set by Düffman on Mon Dec 27 00:15:54
[16:01] -KingsOfChaos- KingsOfChaos is back! Please, no trading of links of any kind in here. Thanks.
[16:01] <+Kate> lol...
[16:01] -Remco-- boriszima, you got kicked because you most likely violated the channel rules. You got kicked by Remco- with kickmessage: EXCESSIVE CAPS - 75% caps detected. Max. 69% allowed. - You got kicked 15 times! - Check out the topic for rules or type !rules
[16:01] -Compassghost- To access the Kings of Chaos News Ticker, type .kocnews - To read the channel topic, type .topic - To read the rules, type .rules
[16:01] <+Kate> thats for sure
===============


there, as you can see what those do, so yeah its fun to kick using scripts, but where is human intellegence. i could also be an op in koc room and just run my ban/kick scripts. does not take a genuis.

MeNoSe
30th December 2004, 05:46 PM
[15:59] <boriszima> whos is #one in kingsofchaos, i cant access it ?
[15:59] * Remco- sets mode: +b *!*@=etskyj-75-926-662-945.dsl.lsan03.pacbell.net
[15:59] * You were kicked by _lennahctahc (Banned)
[15:59] * Attempting to rejoin channel #kingsofchaos
System: Attempting to unban you from «#kingsofchaos»

Advertising is against the rules, thats why you were banned :)

Remco-
30th December 2004, 05:47 PM
Yes, that's a script that kicks on channel advertising...
#one is a channel and a script can't detect if you made a typo or not.
We get daily a shitload of people trying to advertise their channels so we have a ban on them.

boriszima
30th December 2004, 05:51 PM
[15:59] <boriszima> whos is #one in kingsofchaos, i cant access it ?
[15:59] * Remco- sets mode: +b *!*@=etskyj-75-926-662-945.dsl.lsan03.pacbell.net
[15:59] * You were kicked by _lennahctahc (Banned)
[15:59] * Attempting to rejoin channel #kingsofchaos
System: Attempting to unban you from «#kingsofchaos»

Advertising is against the rules, thats why you were banned :)

i am sorry to say this, but i think you are. i will be respectful and wont flame.
but i asked how is #one in kingsofchaos to which i should have got a reply like denny. but isntead i got banned. i did not adverstise anything. i suggest paying more attention to what i have typed and not blindly say what i did wrong

remco- so i cant ask who is #one in kingsofchaos anymore ? shame shame. and that was not even a manual kick but a script.

had to put and edit

===
[16:18] <boriszima> [16:14] <@FryMan> boriszima: proviede me when and where and i'll gladly help you
[16:18] <+BigPhil> damnit brb
[16:18] <boriszima> help me with what FryMan ?
[16:18] <@FryMan> Whith waht ever
[16:18] <+stephanie> lol
[16:18] <@FryMan> If you can provide that we are abusive, i will help you
[16:18] <+stephanie> ugh i'm all the way down to 27?
[16:18] <@FryMan> Until then, suck it
===

that shows a lot of maturity.

Captain Tightpants
30th December 2004, 06:07 PM
menose- did you read what you said in your original post ? you are the one who clearly stated that "we[voices/ops] kick for fun" which means that you[you and others] do do it. therefore stop backtracking.
He did not say that ops kick for fun. He said they don't and then he said it's rare. While the two statements may conflict with each other, they don't combine to create your assumption.

Since you seem to like twisting people's words to try and fit your point, how about we make it more precise.

Ops do not kick regulars (meaning new users without channel status) "for fun." If such a kick does happen, it IS noticed, and the person is spoken to and dealt with.
The only time a "fun" kick is acceptable is when it's on a "regular" (meaning a user that has been in the channel a while) or another voice or op. Basically, it's fine on someone that is known to the op and won't overreact like you are doing right now.

BigPhil
30th December 2004, 07:08 PM
Boriszima, well the Ops in KoC gave you a chance to see thats its not easy. A point that you have missed is that i don't think you understand how many people actually go through that channel. And because of that there are so many rules and so many akicks.

Like remco said the ops have to abide by the rules to keep the channel suitable for younger children so there are alot akicks that do catch innocent people up aswell.

Also we don't want the room to fill up with spam either thats why you were banned for #one. But appoint you failed to mention was that as soon as people saw it was a mistake you were unbanned within 2 minutes. (I did it ;)). All ops obviously can unban and all voices can aswell.

Also remco- has made some changes to prevent the "Kick Happy Vops" although i'm not a fan of them because sometimes people do need kicking and we're still restricted they do work, I think after today though as an op in #kingsofchaos you will see that its not an easy job and that really the ops should be praized for the job that they do.

BigPhil

boriszima
30th December 2004, 09:11 PM
bigphil- the only people who gave my problems were ops and voices themselves. very few users were really bad. i have like quiet an extensive log of all of the voices and ops swearing to me and talking trash. i had the 3 hours of my life. this got to be the most fun i have ever had. i was never hated so much by people who just hate me cuz of so many dumb things

like

"boriszima why are you an op, i was next in line" and the s$1t hit the fan from there. that guy was way to funny.
so bigphil the point that you guys made "some portion of voices and ops are very immature people"

anyways, this thread can be closed.


Captain Tightpants- i was stating a piont that the bot that kicks or scripts are not written well enough to be used. yeah remco did fix some of them. anyways, i willl soon make a spam thread and link it here. cuz i thas so many curse words i rather not put blantly here.

MeNoSe
30th December 2004, 11:11 PM
Lol now you see the crap we go through 24/7

===
[16:18] <boriszima> [16:14] <@FryMan> boriszima: proviede me when and where and i'll gladly help you
[16:18] <+BigPhil> damnit brb
[16:18] <boriszima> help me with what FryMan ?
[16:18] <@FryMan> Whith waht ever
[16:18] <+stephanie> lol
[16:18] <@FryMan> If you can provide that we are abusive, i will help you
[16:18] <+stephanie> ugh i'm all the way down to 27?
[16:18] <@FryMan> Until then, suck it
===
Lol, its called chatroom humor, as i have been in your own IRC chatroom, saying suck it is nothing as to compared to being called a fag for no reason.

Clone
30th December 2004, 11:45 PM
Lol, its called chatroom humor, as i have been in your own IRC chatroom, saying suck it is nothing as to compared to being called a fag for no reason.


Yes, chatroom humor is okay when people in power do it, but if the situation were reversed, boriszima would have been banned.


Provide us with proof. Unless I see proof no action of any kind will be taken.

No action would be taken regardless if we had proof or not. If I actually had time on my hands, I would go through all the garbage that I have logged over my days of being in that channel and throw them your way. But, what would be the point?

MeNoSe
30th December 2004, 11:48 PM
Hah, everything you talk about happened in the past, you havn't even been in the current channel to notice the changes. All your logs are useless. Give me RECENT abuses and i can help.

Clone
31st December 2004, 12:12 AM
Hah, everything you talk about happened in the past, you havn't even been in the current channel to notice the changes. All your logs are useless. Give me RECENT abuses and i can help.

Well, technically, anything that I give you will be in the past. What changes could possibly eliminate the "op abuse"?

And I would go in the channel, too bad I was blacklisted unfairly.

MeNoSe
31st December 2004, 12:18 AM
What is the reason you are blacklisted, and on who's blacklist?

Clone
31st December 2004, 12:26 AM
What is the reason you are blacklisted, and on who's blacklist?

I do not know the reason of my blacklist, nor do I know who blacklisted me. I get kicked by remco-, but I do not think he is the one that first intiated the blacklist. Maybe draco...

Not sure, but I don't want to get into this as it serves no purpose. I am just another poor victim of #kingsofchaos ops.

Phyrus
31st December 2004, 01:31 AM
a couple of people i can think of who have abused their power are now gone or at least have become inactive or part of their status dropped.

if anyone here knows just as much as remco does about what happens in the, its me and menose (although ive been there since around april last year).

we try our best not to make a bad impression on the koc world, but 'tis true that many people that come to the room are kids or people/kids who purposely come to be ignorant and give us a hard time therefore make us look strict.

for all those who still hate us, let me assure you that what you think of us is either not true at all or maximum 5%, there have been problems in the past but majority resolved, oh everyone who claims we are strict on there, let me assure you all that you havent been on there for at least 2/3rds or half the time we've even been there or not at all, never make claims and assumptions unless you hear both sides of every story, so think twice before going on a rant.

We have it tough there, and tau is correct too, its hard to manage such room, the reason we have so many people with kick/ban status is to make sure the room is under safe order 24/7 and the current ops arent active 24/7 or at least theres only about 1-2 people per major section of the world (europe, australia/asia, asia, america), if anything, if yous are to come along, help us instead of complaining.

boriszima
31st December 2004, 03:06 AM
oh man, you are so right about people there. but the ones who gave me the trouble were not newbs, but the ops or voiced people themselves. many of whom were jeouloas of my status as an op and were always cursing of me and to me. and then there were those who always scream "why have i not done anything" always pointed out where i should have done something while there were the ones who were breaking the rules. like remco said find him a reason. i found and posted it here, but all we get as a response is thats it was a humor. what a lame excuse. reminds me of a comeback "your mother..." humor on that

Carnage
31st December 2004, 05:22 AM
heres some abuse for you, which would probably warrent an akill.

one of my scripts designed for a disconenct from guanet changes my nick to 'tempnick' so that i can reconnect without triggering my qline. I left it on for chatchannel as well since i have agressve nick protection on and it seemed like a good idea. Then:

[16:54] * Hendikins is now known as tempnick
[16:54] * tempnick is now known as Hendikins

hendikins registered it. guess what happened next.

[18:50] * Disconnected
[18:52] * Attempting to rejoin channel #kingsofchaos
[18:52] * Rejoined channel #kingsofchaos
[18:52] * tempnick (carnage@=EIfgwn547-15-85-109.range217-43.btcentralplus.com) Quit (Kill by NickServ (GHOST command used by Hendikins))
[18:52] * Attempting to rejoin channel #kingsofchaos
[18:52] * Rejoined channel #kingsofchaos
[18:52] * tempnick (carnage@=EIfgwn547-15-85-109.range217-43.btcentralplus.com) Quit (Kill by NickServ (GHOST command used by Hendikins))
[18:52] * Attempting to rejoin channel #kingsofchaos
[18:52] * Rejoined channel #kingsofchaos
[18:52] * tempnick (carnage@=EIfgwn547-15-85-109.range217-43.btcentralplus.com) Quit (Kill by NickServ (GHOST command used by Hendikins))
[19:08] * Attempting to rejoin channel #kingsofchaos
[19:08] * Rejoined channel #kingsofchaos
[19:08] * tempnick (carnage@=auguzw357-78-25-117.range217-43.btcentralplus.com) Quit (Kill by NickServ (GHOST command used by Tessa))
[19:08] * Attempting to rejoin channel #kingsofchaos
[19:08] * Rejoined channel #kingsofchaos
[19:08] <Tessa> ...
[19:08] <Paul> i dont like beer as much as i like liquor
[19:08] * tempnick (carnage@=auguzw357-78-25-117.range217-43.btcentralplus.com) Quit (Kill by NickServ (GHOST command used by Tessa))
[19:08] * Attempting to rejoin channel #kingsofchaos
[19:08] * Rejoined channel #kingsofchaos
[19:08] * Set by Draco on Fri Dec 03 22:43:55
[19:08] <Tessa> okay.
[19:08] <Tessa> taht was fun
[19:08] * tempnick (carnage@=auguzw357-78-25-117.range217-43.btcentralplus.com) Quit (Kill by NickServ (GHOST command used by Black_Monkey))
[19:08] * Attempting to rejoin channel #kingsofchaos
[19:08] * Rejoined channel #kingsofchaos
[19:08] * tempnick (carnage@=auguzw357-78-25-117.range217-43.btcentralplus.com) Quit (Kill by NickServ (GHOST command used by Tessa))
[19:08] * Attempting to rejoin channel #kingsofchaos
[19:08] * Rejoined channel #kingsofchaos
[19:08] * _lennahctahc sets mode: +b *!*@=auguzw357-78-25-117.range217-43.btcentralplus.com
[19:08] * You were kicked by _lennahctahc (banned: join flood)

next up. Clones or rather to conenctions form the same ip.
It has been know on the channel for months that me and my brother share an internet conenction. Yet what always seems to happen when we both join #kingsofchaos? oh yeah we both get banned.

Now i can see why an excessive ammount of clones gets you banned; three or four... even two real clones should probably get a kick. However when it is known that they are two different people sharing an internet connection, it is a bit stupid to start banning for clones. oddly #kingsofchaos is the only channel i've been in that has a problem with this.

i'm not gunna close this for a while, and boris, flaming isn't allowed in spam and chat either.

On the point of maintaining the channel, take a look at the forums, very few bannings take place compared with how meny new members we get a day 1 out of 100 isn't bad going.

Advent
31st December 2004, 05:38 AM
Alright, let me put it this way -- when Rouen, Lenin, myself, Kristen, Carnage and others get banned for trying to lead a fair discussion with one of the operators in the channel, you've definetely got yourself an abuse problem.

About half a year ago, I got banned after someone presented a case of #kingsofchaos abuse to me, and I tried talking to the operator in question. I actually even got the log of where the operator in question bans me. I present it to Remco, and what happens? Nothing. The operator simply says "those are fake" and remains in control.

You defend your random kicks and rule-overexaggeration with the argument that "We want to create an enviroment where a ten-year-old can have a decent conversation without being exposed to unsuitable conditions and swearing". But tell me, how can anyone lead a good discussion if there are kicks every second?

The #kingsofchaos channel is also often simply too big. You can't lead a discussion, even if everyone adheres to the rules, if you have 50 teenagers in one room. But instead of going around "omgwtf u seyd 'ur mom' wonz?! KLINE!!", you might want to brainstorm and look at other possibilities.

Shadowfox
31st December 2004, 06:39 AM
Well I guess the ops should really start acting like an op!
What are #Kingsofchaos ops doing?

They connect, get their op and never look back at the channel!
They made/got some script who does everything for them ...
And indeed sometimes it's quite handy, but most of the times someone's being kicked without a valid reason!
Script are stupid they do what you ask! Without a human supervising the channel why are ops made?
Ops are made to run scripts?

"Bring us proof!" You said, well we brought proof and they are all fake ...
Again it's you word against an other's ...
Who are we going to believe?

I don't care who you believe because you will always be right! You only believe yourself ...
i learned to live with it and won't whine or cry about it anymore...

I'm out and won't come back to this thread because AGAIN nothing will be done even if we have 10000000x proof!

Jayson
31st December 2004, 06:56 AM
Menose... can u let me back onto irc now please...

I have learnt my lesson...

I promise that i will never advertise google ever again...

I tell someone that i got clickewhore off www.google.com and i get booted for my kingsofchaos link.

I agree with boriszima that the stupid irc chat is shithouse!

MeNoSe
31st December 2004, 10:04 AM
Lord_blurg: What is the ban address? And
"I tell someone that i got clickewhore off www.google.com and i get booted for my kingsofchaos link." You got kicked because of the word whore.

Jayson
31st December 2004, 10:19 AM
It appears I'm back online anyways

did u do it

MeNoSe
31st December 2004, 10:47 AM
I did some checking, and you were never banned....you just got kicked...

Jayson
31st December 2004, 10:50 AM
Oh ok...

that's strange becos when I tried to reconnect I am sure it said that I can't join because some server couldn't recongnise me...

I just assumed i was banned lol

MeNoSe
31st December 2004, 10:54 AM
Oh, that doesn't mean you are banned, it means that you still had an open connection somewhere to the chatroom, and it was confusing the server.

blunderball
31st December 2004, 11:24 AM
First I'd like to state that I am a regular user in #kingsofchaos and have been given both VOp status and access to Remco and Duffman's 'kick script'.

To address the initial post: All the Ops and VOps who have kicked for fun in the past, have been warned, and in some cases lost access and/or status in the channel.
'Kicking for fun' was a problem at one point - when a large portion of the Ops were inactive and some VOps (who I wont name) took advantage of that fact. I consider myself to be one of the stricter VOps, but I will only kick or ban for a clear violation of one of the rules (that are presented to all java chat users upon entrance, and are clearly made available by typing .rules). I personally only ban right off the bat if someone posts a link to an alliance/recruiting site/site containing unique links, and will always give either a verbal warning or a kick (if it is an attempt at recruiting, alliance or personal) and if I see a ban that I feel was too harsh and/or unwarranted I will unban them.

Now, as for some other things said in this thread.

Shadowfox_Lw: You have said on at least one occassion that you do not visit the channel regularly and that you dont come at all anymore. Therefore, you are in no position to make any of the comments you have made. Also - either you are reading a completely different thread to me, or you are not understanding what is said.
One example

You are one of those IRC ops who kick for fun, I can't give an example because I never go there anymore ...
How can you make such a comment if you haven't;
a) Got any proof.
b) Don't even visit the channel anymore.

Now, to address your more recent post.

Well I guess the ops should really start acting like an op!
What are #Kingsofchaos ops doing?

They connect, get their op and never look back at the channel!
They made/got some script who does everything for them ...
Again, how can you make such an accusation if you dont visit the place? If you had said this months ago, I may have agreed with parts of it. Some Ops were not very active and let the scripts they wrote do their jobs for them, however such Ops have either been removed or become more active. Devi is an example of one that was removed, and Remco is an example one that became a lot more active.

And indeed sometimes it's quite handy, but most of the times someone's being kicked without a valid reason!
I'm sorry, but that is bull. Ok there are some mistakes, but if there is a mistake made the person who is banned will be unbanned as soon as someone sees the mistake (as was the case with boriszima's 'evidence' of being banned for #one).

Script are stupid they do what you ask! Without a human supervising the channel why are ops made?
Ops are made to run scripts?
There is plenty of human supervision - I challenge you to find a space of more than 20 minutes where an Op or VOp has not been active (Although it would be difficult to take into account the fact that people lurk a lot of the time).

"Bring us proof!" You said, well we brought proof and they are all fake ...
No one said any of the proof given in this thread was fake. Mars mentioned that he had a problem a long time ago with someone saying the evidence was fake - but there is no other view on that matter, and it was a long time ago.

Ok, now to boriszima.

^ newb go back to your lik cave in koc and kick whoever you want. thats why the room never gets popular cuz all you guys do is kikc and ban every single users.

oh yeah, one of other worst things, those [censored] put +m (moderation) so only voiced and above can speak

i am sorry to say this, but i think you are. i will be respectful and wont flame.
With comments like these is it any wonder a lot of the Ops and VOps dont like you? You even have the '#kingsofchaos ops' in your disrespect list. You expect people to be nice to you when you are nothing but a jackass to them.. maybe that makes sense to you, but it doesn't to me.
As for your evidence, you know of the bugs in the scripts (that cannot be helped) and exploited those to use as evidence. In the case of being banned for '#one' you were unbanned minutes later by one of the active VOps who saw the mistake. Which indicates that if a script makes a mistake, it is corrected by the human who is active at the time. Which to me, makes perfect sense.

And to Carnage, Hendikins has a thing where he does that to consistently annoying users. I believe yours was chosen because it was flooding the channel.

(1:08:37:pm) * _lennahctahc sets mode: +b *!*@=4Txpme298-74-08-901.range217-43.btcentralplus.com

But it was unbanned shortly after, when they realised who it was.
If you care that strongly about it, speak to kiki or Nfs - its not really a case for the channel ops.

----

A large amount of the comments here are from people who dont even visit the channel regularly. So I don't see how their opinion can be valid.

MeNoSe
31st December 2004, 11:35 AM
In essence, if you don't visit the channel, don't comment on our job and how we run it. Do you see me telling the mods here that they are unrulely and should be kicked in the ass? No, because its not my place. As it is not your place to tell us how to do things.

Oh and blunderball: nice pwnage ;)

Clone
31st December 2004, 12:05 PM
With comments like these is it any wonder a lot of the Ops and VOps dont like you? You even have the '#kingsofchaos ops' in your disrespect list. You expect people to be nice to you when you are nothing but a jackass to them.. maybe that makes sense to you, but it doesn't to me.

Just because the Ops and VOps don't like him doesn't mean they have the right to kick or ban him. It works both ways; the only difference is boris can't ban YOU for being "jackass".


Hendikins has a thing where he does that to consistently annoying users

Yes, his thing is abuse. I remember I got banned for no reason by Hendikins, actually the only thing I had typed in the past 30 minutes was : ^-^.


A large amount of the comments here are from people who dont even visit the channel regularly. So I don't see how their opinion can be valid.

So now the people that have been abused don't have a valid opinion? So who died and made you the judge of valid opinions?

Thanks for the example of how you guys cover up Op abuse. "Aw, that's not abuse, that user doesn't even have a valid opinion."


Do you see me telling the mods here that they are unrulely and should be kicked in the ass?

No, but at least here, moderators can't abuse their power; because we WILL get demodded. On iRC, all it takes is to ban the user that has been abused, then claim they no longer have "a valid opinion." Then if the user brings logs, claim that they are:
1) fake.
2) too old for the new changes to take effect.


nice pwnage


Stop mis-quoting me. You idiot. I have never used the word pwned

I thought you didn't use that word...

loldongs
31st December 2004, 12:10 PM
Do you see me telling the mods here that they are unrulely and should be kicked in the ass? No, because its not my place. As it is not your place to tell us how to do things.

Just a quick comment, i dont go on irc, hence why i have not repied or anything besides now. But just to what I quoted from menose there, you dont do that because the mods here arent unruley and they are respectable, opposite what you guys apperently are.


Ok, now to boriszima.

Quote:
^ newb go back to your lik cave in koc and kick whoever you want. thats why the room never gets popular cuz all you guys do is kikc and ban every single users.



Quote:
oh yeah, one of other worst things, those [censored] put +m (moderation) so only voiced and above can speak



Quote:
i am sorry to say this, but i think you are. i will be respectful and wont flame.


With comments like these is it any wonder a lot of the Ops and VOps dont like you? You even have the '#kingsofchaos ops' in your disrespect list. You expect people to be nice to you when you are nothing but a jackass to them.. maybe that makes sense to you, but it doesn't to me.

How would you think boris got like this at one time? How do you think he got mad at you guys in the first place? Did he just randomly choose some people to hate? i strongly doubt that, because thats not the boris everyone on the forums knows.

blunderball
31st December 2004, 12:20 PM
Just because the Ops and VOps don't like him doesn't mean they have the right to kick or ban him. It works both ways; the only difference is boris can't ban YOU for being "jackass".
boriszima isn't banned. Nor have I seen him regularly being banned or kicked, he tends to follow the rules, he just seems to get under peoples skin.

So now the people that have been abused don't have a valid opinion? So who died and made you the judge of valid opinions?

Thanks for the example of how you guys cover up Op abuse. "Aw, that's not abuse, that user doesn't even have a valid opinion."
Where did I say the people who got wrongfully banned dont have an opinion? My point was that the people who complain are largely people who dont visit at all, or haven't done so for a long time (a lot of things have changed).

How would you think boris got like this at one time? How do you think he got mad at you guys in the first place? Did he just randomly choose some people to hate? i strongly doubt that, because thats not the boris everyone on the forums knows.
I dont know boriszima very well at all, but for as long as Ive been going to the channel he has been pissing people off. He has acted hostile to me on several occassions, despite not knowing me. I admit I dont know 'forum boriszima' that well, but the '#kingsofchaos IRC boriszima' has always been aggressive to Ops and VOps alike in my experience. If he had a problem with specific people and kept it to those, I wouldnt be making this point - but he seems to just do it to anyone with status in that channel.

Clone
31st December 2004, 12:43 PM
boriszima isn't banned. Nor have I seen him regularly being banned or kicked, he tends to follow the rules, he just seems to get under peoples skin.

Where did I say he was banned? I said the difference is if an op wants to be a jackass to boris, he can with no effects. If boris wants to be a jackass, he would get banned. How is that fair?


Where did I say the people who got wrongfully banned dont have an opinion?

I was wrongfully banned(on more then one occassion), and I come here to try and let you know of this problem and you give me crap like this:


Hah, everything you talk about happened in the past, you havn't even been in the current channel to notice the changes. All your logs are useless.


A large amount of the comments here are from people who dont even visit the channel regularly. So I don't see how their opinion can be valid

Oh, just to add, I was a regular user.


(a lot of things have changed)

Another example of Op abuse cover-up. Op abuse is still Op abuse, nothing can change that.

lenino
31st December 2004, 12:44 PM
Alright, let me put it this way -- when Rouen, Lenin, myself, Kristen, Carnage and others get banned for trying to lead a fair discussion with one of the operators in the channel, you've definetely got yourself an abuse problem.

About half a year ago, I got banned after someone presented a case of #kingsofchaos abuse to me, and I tried talking to the operator in question. I actually even got the log of where the operator in question bans me. I present it to Remco, and what happens? Nothing. The operator simply says "those are fake" and remains in control.

You defend your random kicks and rule-overexaggeration with the argument that "We want to create an enviroment where a ten-year-old can have a decent conversation without being exposed to unsuitable conditions and swearing". But tell me, how can anyone lead a good discussion if there are kicks every second?

The #kingsofchaos channel is also often simply too big. You can't lead a discussion, even if everyone adheres to the rules, if you have 50 teenagers in one room. But instead of going around "omgwtf u seyd 'ur mom' wonz?! KLINE!!", you might want to brainstorm and look at other possibilities.
Mars is completely right...

I've been a regular member of the channel lately, and I believe the abuse issues have discreased, but I still think there's some unecessary actions.
I couldn't find a line in my logs where someone sets mode +b *!*@*.dyn.optonline.net, just for one person. I've got more of these logs in the ~4 days I've been there...
Yeah, the ban was removed in some minutes, hours, days. But why ban all optonline?
There's plenty of ops, and what are ops for? Moderate the channel, but they just idle or talk about something else not related to KoC, and let their scripts control the channel.
Sure, maybe Aman wants it this way, but there's still some actions that are just injust.
I didn't mention any name to show this is nothing personal against anyone, it's just me trying to get the KoC channel a better place to go and chat.

MeNoSe
31st December 2004, 12:56 PM
"So now the people that have been abused don't have a valid opinion? So who died and made you the judge of valid opinions?"
The people that have been abused have a vaild opinion, just not those that havn't been on the channel within the last 3 months have no valid opinion.

And I DO use the word pwn, just not on IRC, On IRC, i don't type like a dumbass.

Clone
31st December 2004, 01:02 PM
The people that have been abused have a vaild opinion, just not those that havn't been on the channel within the last 3 months have no valid opinion.

Ok, therefore I have a valid opinion. I have been on the channel within the past 3 months and that is where most of my logs are from. And I was abused, meaning I have a double the effects of a valid opinion. That also means, I have seen the changes that you guys bring up, and I know that they are flawed.


And I DO use the word pwn, just not on IRC, On IRC, i don't type like a dumbass.

I wouldn't either, especially in #kingsofchaos, that kind of stuff gets you banned. Poor noobs.

MeNoSe
31st December 2004, 01:16 PM
Ok, therefore I have a valid opinion. I have been on the channel within the past 3 months and that is where most of my logs are from. And I was abused, meaning I have a double the effects of a valid opinion. That also means, I have seen the changes that you guys bring up, and I know that they are flawed.



I wouldn't either, especially in #kingsofchaos, that kind of stuff gets you banned. Poor noobs.

Message me your logs, bold the abuse please.

blunderball
31st December 2004, 01:19 PM
Where did I say he was banned? I said the difference is if an op wants to be a jackass to boris, he can with no effects. If boris wants to be a jackass, he would get banned. How is that fair?
In my experience boriszima is often an ass to Ops when he is there (now that I've said that read my original reply). Also, if someone is repeatedly a jackass on GUA they would get warned and eventually banned. Its the same in any forum/IRC channel.

Clone I purposely didn't name people when I made the statement about valid opinions, since I know quite a few of the people who posted have been regular users and were there recently (e.g. yourself and boriszima).

Another example of Op abuse cover-up. Op abuse is still Op abuse, nothing can change that.
If you re-read the beginning of my first post, you will realise I admitted that 'fun kicking' was a problem at one point.


I couldn't find a line in my logs where someone sets mode +b *!*@*.dyn.optonline.net, just for one person. I've got more of these logs in the ~4 days I've been there...
Yeah, the ban was removed in some minutes, hours, days. But why ban all optonline?
I believe that case was due to someone repeatedly dodging an original ban (which is the reason for 99% of the ISP bans).

There's plenty of ops, and what are ops for? Moderate the channel, but they just idle or talk about something else not related to KoC, and let their scripts control the channel.
Ok Ops are there to moderate, buts what to say they cant chat as well? And as I addressed earlier, if the scripts go wrong, humans take over.

Clone
31st December 2004, 01:56 PM
Message me your logs, bold the abuse please.

Okay, I sent you the logs that I have. Although, I highly doubt you will do anything about it. And by "highly doubt" I mean you won't do anything about it.


Also, if someone is repeatedly a jackass on GUA they would get warned and eventually banned. Its the same in any forum/IRC channel.

Wow. This is about the only thing I agree with. If someone is being a jackass they should be warned(kicked), and eventually banned.

Ah, well I have found a difference. On most forums(like this one) mods are treated just like the normal user. We break a rule, we get warned; we break too many, we get banned. Not the same on irc. Mods do whatever they want and nothing gets done about it.


you will realise I admitted that 'fun kicking' was a problem at one point.


"At one point" could be anytime. Maybe even during the last minute. I gurantee nothing has been done to stop it.

MeNoSe
31st December 2004, 02:24 PM
I responded, and as we speak, Duffman and I are trying to regain control of the nick stealing problem.

boriszima
31st December 2004, 02:32 PM
wow. that was some heavy read. i dont have the time to make a good post, since it is new years. but be sure when i get back to reality i will makea very long and well structured post.
some short comments

blunderball- do i even know you ? i dont recall talking to you at all in past days on #kingsofchaos. and if i was a bit out of hand in past, like you said ops change, so do users... you cant use info from way back right ?
Also you imply that i have 2 personalities; reading between the lines it might even imply that you are calling me crazy. and openly calling me a "jackass" is a very clearly indication of flaming. do you also use such words in your room ?

the reason why you do not have any regulars comers, because people like me, clone, mars, caranga, lenin, johnstamos, and the list goes on. Do not want to return to such channel because people who run it (not all) are very disrespectful people. the reason why i have #koc ops in my disrepect list is because of that. but even if koc ops did know that i had it, does it give them a right to kick me or ban me ?

i also had similar problem as carange, i have a brother who plays koc and is a regular to irc.

here i am going to provide a small sniplet of when i got an op in #kingsfochaos

note: contains swear words. if mod wants to censor the words, its fine by me, but this only contains such words to show the pure and clear picture of people who run the #kingsofchaos room. or have power there


[16:30] * Remco- sets mode: +o boriszima
-this is the start

[16:33] <+Crimson_Glory> Who the hell made boris aop
--he is the first unhappy costumar. keep in mind he has a voice and should be respectful not only to other ops but to the rest of the users



[16:38] <+snoop123> boriszima is opped?
[16:38] <+snoop123> damn



[17:04] <+NeoSonic> ops are usually assholes who abuse thier powers
[17:04] * NeoSonic was kicked by Düffman (Watch your filthy little mouth! 12‹5489212›)
-- i agree with him 100% this guys was the rudest of any person i have ever meet on irc.


[17:15] <+NeoSonic> PimpStick: can I just call you dipshit... it sounsd the same
--and tell him how does this user has kick power if he used a such language ?


[17:23] <+Jezter> i have nothing against boriszima but still -_-
--thsi is another asshole in koc room.


[17:24] <+NeoSonic> my DICK is bigger than yours
--and yet, he is still has a voice there ? oh come on, dont tell him thsi is "humor" langauge suitable for 8 years olds ? and yet, the voices does not follow it ? seems like bullshit or biased to me. i am voiced/op and i can say what i want. or did i miss anything there, blunderball ?



17:25] <dsksjlk> boriszima arsehole
[17:25] <dsksjlk> boriszima arsehole
[17:25] <+NeoSonic> cocknballs
[17:25] <Chaos_CT> was just checking ;)
[17:25] <pootybubbles> asshead
[17:25] <GoodBurger> ^^^^^
[17:25] * boriszima sets mode: +b *!*@=Zs57.231.181.117.bay.mi.chartermi.net
[17:25] * dsksjlk was kicked by _lennahctahc (Banned)
* Timer 7 activated
[17:25] * Knock: dsksjlk address is banned
* Timer 7 halted
[17:25] * FryMan sets mode: -b *!*@=Zs57.231.181.117.bay.mi.chartermi.net
[17:25] <Chaos_CT> lmao
[17:25] <@FryMan> Was not ban worthy
-unwrothy ? how so. that guy was masking word asshole. last time i checked that was against the rules. right menose ? maybe you should pay attention not what i have done there, but what ohters were doing to me.


[17:25] <+NeoSonic> boriszima sucks the dick off a monkey
-- just pointing out that you sure have a very genteman like voiced.


[17:31] <+Jezter> dude boriszima im not going to tell any1 higher than u cuz i dont whin abotu shit like that
[17:31] * Jezter was kicked by Düffman (Watch your filthy little mouth! 12‹5490012›)
--oh please remco, tell me this is not abuse ? language suitable for 8 years olds ? sounds a bit shitty to me if you have to ask me



[17:32] <+Jezter> boriszima y the hell should u get op for not working at all in this channel when the rest of us have worked
alot at getting our status
--you sure worked a lot.. really hard. probably had to find a dictionary to know some man bad words to apply for such position


[17:45] <+NeoSonic> boriszima: you cant kick us for calling you a filthy cock sucking scumbag, but you have to kick the people
that mask swear words
-- hm, i get a better and more clearly picture of what it takes to have power in koc room



[17:50] <dsksjlk> boriszima cocksucker
[17:50] <+JFK> boris is also a jew
[17:50] <+Jezter> dont be racist u fag
[17:50] * Jezter was kicked by Düffman (Watch your filthy little mouth! 12‹5490812›)
[17:50] * Joins: Jezter (Jezter@=442-8bgep133-281.nas87.los-angeles2.ca.us.da.qwest.net)
-- i guess jezter is not falling far behind neosonic in word usage. so far their vocobulary consists of 10 words


[17:53] <+NeoSonic> see boriszima. becaus you havent been controllign the situation its getting out of hand
--the only asses that make the situation out of hand is your and your buddy jezter


[17:56] <+Jezter> boriszima u got ur status from being a lil bitch that dont know how to act in this channel
--very very clearn example. i love that quote. somebody tell me what they see wrong with it ? remco, blunderball, menose ?

k so i asked one of my friends to come to the channel and chat with me and give me support to see if he gets banned or not. well i was not suprised that he did get banned for only suporting me and not breaking any rules





[18:17] <+NeoSonic> !kb Darkwanderer now piss off
[18:17] <Darkwanderer> woo chaos you're almost funny
[18:17] <+NeoSonic> !kb Darkwanderer now piss off
[18:17] <+Chisuga> lol
[18:17] * Joins: PowerfulDarkness (~java@=Azw24-wzx3.ham.ihug.co.nz)
[18:17] <+Chisuga> neo
[18:17] <+snoop123> Darkwanderer and you're almost intelligent
[18:17] <NS33> no remco ;O
[18:17] <+Chisuga> they have a timer now
[18:17] <+Jezter> !vk
[18:17] <+snoop123> but not quite
[18:17] <+NeoSonic> !kb Darkwanderer now piss off
[18:17] * PowerfulDarkness dances with random person.
[18:17] <+NeoSonic> !vk
[18:17] <+Jezter> lmao damn
[18:17] <+NeoSonic> !kb Darkwanderer now piss off
[18:17] <+snoop123> you know a chimpanzee is considered intelligent
[18:17] <Darkwanderer> pwn em boris
[18:17] <Chaos_CT> Chisuga
[18:17] <+snoop123> !vk
[18:18] <Chaos_CT> he didnt voice you cuz of that
[18:18] <Stereochild> !die Darkwanderer
[18:18] <+Chisuga> ?
[18:18] <+NeoSonic> jesus
[18:18] <+snoop123> damnit remco
[18:18] <+Crimson_Glory> !kb Darkwanderer test
[18:18] <+NeoSonic> come on now
[18:18] <+Jezter> and i cant kick off of duffmans script -_-
[18:18] <Chaos_CT> Aman had all women with status
[18:18] <+BigPhil> NeoSonic:ops are talking in the other #kingsofchaos the scripts cross over
[18:18] <+NeoSonic> its been 2 minutes
[18:18] <+Crimson_Glory> hrm
[18:18] * p0 sets mode: +b *!*@=2s98-681-5-618.client.mchsi.com
[18:18] <+snoop123> NeoSonic remco is gone
[18:18] <+snoop123> :p
[18:18] * Darkwanderer was kicked by _lennahctahc (Banned)

--so you guys dont kick for fun ? well that kind of pisses me off


anyways that should be enough for couple of hours. and thats the EXACT reason why many do NOT comeback to that channel. because not only people dont talk about koc there, people who run it[not all] are a bunch of


i am glad that people here support my cause and i hope aman (koc admin) will do something about #kingsofchaos and will make it better since now its full of [insert your favorite animal] who run it. and thats why i like to talk here than in there.

Gah
31st December 2004, 02:35 PM
( post needs to be redone i only read last quote) =P

MeNoSe
31st December 2004, 02:36 PM
"-unwrothy ? how so. that guy was masking word asshole. last time i checked that was against the rules. right menose ? maybe you should pay attention not what i have done there, but what ohters were doing to me."
Nope, insults to ops is not ban worthy.

And now that you have seen what we go through 24/7 You MAY realize why our leashes get shorter and shorter when it comes to tollerating noobs like this.

Gah
31st December 2004, 02:40 PM
Bor you say that but yet... i see you seating in the koc chat as we speak? for someone who hates the channel you sure do spend alot of time in there

boriszima
31st December 2004, 03:16 PM
Bor you say that but yet... i see you seating in the koc chat as we speak? for someone who hates the channel you sure do spend alot of time in there

hm, i hate people who run it, but i am still there if people ask questions and ops and voices ignore them. so i answer them. well if you dont like me there, you knwo you have every right to do someting about it

menose - thats all you have to say about my post ? did not anything else matter there ? and that guy was masking and he did like 100 notices to me saing that i a [many nice words] thats sure is ban worthy to me.

anyways, i made my point clear.

Clone
31st December 2004, 03:19 PM
Nope, insults to ops is not ban worthy.

Tell that to half of your #kingsofchaos ops. They might ban you, initially.


Bor you say that but yet... i see you seating in the koc chat as we speak? for someone who hates the channel you sure do spend alot of time in there

Well, I hate going to church, but I sure spend a lot of time in there.

Carnage
31st December 2004, 03:45 PM
[22:03] <oatmealboy> you are all very ugly people
[22:03] <Timmy> no, leave timmy alone
[22:03] <Althor> i beeseech thee on moderator
[22:03] <bubbi> the smurfs rule
[22:03] <oatmealboy> UGLY!
[22:03] <timmay> smurfs suck
[22:03] <Timmy> by the way is timmy retarted
[22:03] <oatmealboy> yes
[22:03] <oatmealboy> UGLY!
[22:03] <timmay> im retardd
[22:03] <AntihopE> oatmealboy, that's informative, now either be nice or leave
[22:03] <Timmy> no
[22:03] <oatmealboy> no
[22:03] <Timmy> off south park
[22:03] <Althor> kcik him !
[22:04] <oatmealboy> UGLY!!!
[22:04] <bubbi> no yes no yes no yes no yes no yes no
[22:04] * AntihopE sets mode: +b *!*@67.141.134.NG054=
[22:04] * oatmealboy was kicked by AntihopE (bye ‹397›)


i just grabbed the latest banning out of the channel. ok this guy was being an ass. what do you do? ban him straight off, giving him a warning "[22:03] <AntihopE> oatmealboy, that's informative, now either be nice or leave" isn't going to make him cooperate. ops should try to diffuse the situation not make it worse.

now perhaps this situation wouldn't have been solved without a ban, but some will be i just pulled up a random example.

AntihopE
31st December 2004, 03:51 PM
Carnage, perhaps you weren't in the channel. That boy said nothing other than "everyone in this channel is ugly". I really don't know what you think I could have "said" to diffuse it. I sent him a message showing that 1) I was present and 2) that kind of attitude really doesn't belong in a channel.

I could ignore him, but, that woulnd't have been useful.

I gave him a warning, he resisted.. and was banned. The bans last 1 hour. If that is too much "punishment" for his actions, then I don't know what you expect. Should I have let him stay saying "You are all ugly" for the next hour or two?

Gah
31st December 2004, 03:56 PM
Not to mention carnage i see that kid in the room on a dialy basis breakin rules and being a royal dipshit there gets to a point where they dont need to be warned and should know the rules by now.

Captain Tightpants
31st December 2004, 03:57 PM
oatmealboy is also very consistent in his stupidity. He either is truly retarded and doesn't know how to act decently, or he purposely tries to get banned. No matter which option it is, he deserved the ban.

Carnage
31st December 2004, 03:57 PM
antihope what i'm saying is the way you gave the warning didn't help. i just picked the most recent ban as an example. Perhaps this one was right, but meny are not needed. you'd be surprised at how meny people we warn on here in a friendly manner turn arround appologise and don't cause any more trouble. of cause you get the ones who no matter what you do persist in flaming/spamming/trolling etc, and they do get banned.

What i'm saying here; again not pointed at you particually but meny of the ops just 'put down' people then ban them when they react. that was the point i was making, i could probably have picked a better example, but searching through 150mb of logs takes a while.

Gah
31st December 2004, 03:58 PM
And clone, he said he hated the room and that is why he DOSENT go there.. if he said he just hated the room that would of beeen a different story.

Carnage
31st December 2004, 04:05 PM
As an example: here was a warning given out to someone recently by an smod:


I am going to assume that you just missed my little post right above yours. What you are doing is considered spam, because the topic of the thread is the Peterson trial... Not whether Hitler used propaganda or not. Please be more careful, k?


i'm not going to say who gave or recieved it, but the point is that its made towards helping the member become a better poster rather than just putitng them down all the time.

AntihopE
31st December 2004, 04:07 PM
Carnage, I'm open to suggestions. Please tell me what you would have said.. Normally, my "warnings" are "be nice"..

If you can think of a better way I could have said it, please let me know.. I don't feel like filling up this thread anymore, so send it in PM, or reply here.. I won't post more on the subject in this thread.

boriszima
31st December 2004, 04:07 PM
"-unwrothy ? how so. that guy was masking word asshole. last time i checked that was against the rules. right menose ? maybe you should pay attention not what i have done there, but what ohters were doing to me."
Nope, insults to ops is not ban worthy.

And now that you have seen what we go through 24/7 You MAY realize why our leashes get shorter and shorter when it comes to tollerating noobs like this.


on not ban worthy ? so no op will ban me for telling them off ?

oh wait

[14:30] <boriszima> Düffman you are an idiot
[14:30] <Frylock> I see.
[14:30] <Frylock> That's bad.
[14:30] <Frylock> You must hafta really screw up to get blacklisted then.
[14:30] <boriszima> actually you are just not smart Düffman
[14:31] * Düffman sets mode: +b *!*@=Ltgfke-20-671-279-214.dsl.lsan03.pacbell.net
[14:31] * You were kicked by Düffman (I know you're just trying to stir up trouble, and I know you're going to run to GUA with this. I don't care. You're a moron. ‹55008›)

uhm, can you repeat that to me again ? i did not quiet get it. i only hope whoever talks to koc admins will let them know that they let the room by run by morons (not all, but some).

Captain Tightpants
31st December 2004, 04:07 PM
(16:30:29) (boriszima) Düffman you are an idiot
(16:30:49) (boriszima) actually you are just not smart Düffman

boris, if you want the ops to respect you, stop being a jackass to them. Duffman didn't say a single thing against you and you just up and insult him.
All he did was kick someone who was dodging a ban, you told him he was wrong, he said no and explained why the kid deserved it.

Again, if you want respect you show respect. That's not a difficult concept.

And if you're going to quote something to try to prove your point, quote all of it
The entire "conversation" between boris and Duffman. Again, Duffman did nothing to deserve an insult, boris just wants trouble.


(16:27:27) —› kick: (CybarDragon) was kicked by (Düffman) (Ban dodging is a bad plan ‹55007› )
(16:27:36) (+Haplo) Düffman who was that
(16:27:42) (+Haplo) oh
(16:27:44) (+Haplo) it was clone
(16:27:45) (+Haplo) figures
(16:27:46) (@Düffman) (16:26:57) -NickServ- *** clone is New Now Know How
(16:27:46) (@Düffman) (16:26:57) -NickServ- Last seen address: chatzilla@***.nas6.toledo1.oh.us.da.qwest.net
(16:27:51) (+Haplo) yeah just noticed that >_<
(16:28:38) (boriszima) hehe once again, it proves that ops here ban abusively
(16:28:46) (@Düffman) boriszima - Nope
(16:28:53) (boriszima) Düffman - you are wrong
(16:28:59) (+Gah) boriszima: He ban dodged..
(16:28:59) (@Düffman) No, no I'm not
(16:29:09) (boriszima) but bans only last for an hour
(16:29:19) (@Düffman) You're thinking too literally
(16:29:24) (@Düffman) The channel ban only last an hour
(16:29:33) (@Düffman) Doesn't mean the person's welcome
(16:29:47) (@Düffman) clone is a child that likes to cause trouble
(16:29:58) (@Düffman) Thus, not welcome
(16:30:15) (@Düffman) Don't care if there's a standing channel ban or not, if he comes in, he's dodging
(16:30:29) (boriszima) Düffman you are an idiot

Clone
31st December 2004, 04:10 PM
Psh: and anyway, AntihopE is an op, and has every right to ban
CybarDragon: how do i git more troops
Psh: so you shouldnt question it
Psh: and if you do
boriszima: Psh shut up
Psh: type /quit and save us all the trouble

Well, I was cybardragon. (was banned again, but thats okay)

Now, Psh is a V0p, and it seems he has it implanted in his mind that you can't question an Op. And if you do, you will be banned(he implied it by the last line).

Welcome to #kingsofchaos, where the Ops roam free and the Vops pick up their poop.

DeadKitten
31st December 2004, 04:14 PM
Nice boris. You go on preaching how ops should show respect, and turn around and pull that ?

You need to give respect to receive it. You disrespected duffman and got what you had coming. You deserved that one.

Here's an idea, instead of whining here, or telling off ops, why not actually do what you say we should be doing? Until you show the ops respect, you will get no respect, just how it works in real life.

Carnage
31st December 2004, 04:14 PM
[22:37] <Guest9724> denny sucks cock
[22:37] * Guest9724 was kicked by Draco|AFK (You're tacky and I hate you (cock)! ‹420›)

yes this kick was deserved he broke the rules. but the kick message is out of order, you kick him for swearing then repeat it in the kick message. wheres the sence in that. It'd be like me banning someone for posting a porn link in here then in the banned members thread saying:
member: name here
status: banned
reason: linking to this image <link>

see some of the things i'm driving at, sure enforce the rules but in doing so, play by them yourself.

Gah
31st December 2004, 04:18 PM
that is a auto script kick that kicks them and then posts what it is that they said to get them kicked.. makes pretty good sence to me as they tend to come back and wondering what word it was that got them kicked.

Clone
31st December 2004, 04:18 PM
Nice boris. You go on preaching how ops should show respect, and turn around and pull that ?

You need to give respect to receive it. You disrespected duffman and got what you had coming. You deserved that one.

Here's an idea, instead of whining here, or telling off ops, why not actually do what you say we should be doing? Until you show the ops respect, you will get no respect, just how it works in real life.


Nope, insults to ops is not ban worthy

Actually, boris was just following the rules presented by MeNose. Apparently, you are allowed to insult the ops and not recieve a ban.

So, do you consider this Op abuse? And are you going to do anything about it?

Captain Tightpants
31st December 2004, 04:20 PM
[22:37] <Guest9724> denny sucks cock
[22:37] * Guest9724 was kicked by Draco|AFK (You're tacky and I hate you (cock)! ‹420› )

yes this kick was deserved he broke the rules. but the kick message is out of order, you kick him for swearing then repeat it in the kick message.
That is a function of an mIRC addon called NNScript. A lot of ops there use it, and it's very difficult to edit that function. I know Duffman took that out, but Draco's been busy lately and likely hasn't had the time to find it or ask where it is.


Actually, boris was just following the rules presented by MeNose. Apparently, you are allowed to insult the ops and not recieve a ban.

So, do you consider this Op abuse? And are you going to do anything about it?
It depends on the language used, and whether the person has done it before. boris may not have used very bad language, but he does consistently insult ops, directly and indirectly. He's not as sneaky as he thinks.

Clone
31st December 2004, 04:23 PM
It depends on the language used, and whether the person has done it before. boris may not have used very bad language, but he does consistently insult ops, directly and indirectly. He's not as sneaky as he thinks.

Ever consider the countless times that the ops have insulted boris? Naw, you don't.

Oh, and insulting ops is NOT ban worthy. Or did you not read my post?

Carnage
31st December 2004, 04:27 PM
[22:49] <AntihopE> i_hate_denny, seriously.. can you please start saying something useful.
[22:49] <i_hate_denny> you guys are loser nerds whit the worst come backs in the world
[22:49] * AntihopE sets mode: +m
[22:49] <AntihopE> Okay
[22:49] <AntihopE> This is a chat room.. People chat.
[22:50] <AntihopE> This is *NOT* a place to hurl insults to eachother.
[22:50] <AntihopE> If you have a disrespectful nick, quit now and come back with a useful one.
[22:50] <AntihopE> If not, I'll kick you.
[22:50] <AntihopE> If you come back with the same nick, I'll ban you.
[22:50] <AntihopE> You are hereby warned.


now we are acctually getting somewhere.

Lets address another point.

you kick/ban for certain swear words however, as demonstrated by this link:

http://www.kingsofchaos.com/battlefield.php?jump=&search_type=c&search=cock

the admins don't seem to want to keep the swear words out of the game inconsistant? no?

Captain Tightpants
31st December 2004, 04:29 PM
Ever consider the countless times that the ops have insulted boris? Naw, you don't.

Again, send proof to Remco or another op so it can get to Remco. All you're doing now is baseless whining.


Oh, and insulting ops is NOT ban worthy. Or did you not read my post?
1) You're not an op in that room, so you can't specify what is ban worthy or not.
2) You know for a fact you're blacklisted and continue to dodge bans. Your opinion is officially invalidated.


http://www.kingsofchaos.com/battlefield.php?jump=&search_type=c&search=cock

the admins don't seem to want to keep the swear words out of the game inconsistant? no?
Again, Aman was the one who originally set the rules for the chatroom. It's not the ops fault that the admins didn't extend the same rules to the game.

DeadKitten
31st December 2004, 04:30 PM
Well, I was cybardragon. (was banned again, but thats okay)

Now, Psh is a V0p, and it seems he has it implanted in his mind that you can't question an Op. And if you do, you will be banned(he implied it by the last line).

Welcome to #kingsofchaos, where the Ops roam free and the Vops pick up their poop.


Clone, you were banned for dodging a previous ban. You've been banned for that before, you know it's against the rules.

He didn't say you don't question the op at all, obviously, you don't pull a Boris, and outright disrescpect the op, but once a ban is set, you deal with it.

I've been banned many times (for as long as a week, on a few occasions), I've been kicked many times, and even now that I'm a vop, I still get kicked or banned. I don't complain, I don't bitch and I don't whine, although I do question it when I trhink it was unjust, I am polite about it.. I rejoin, and avoid triggering kicks again, and go about my business. It's not difficult to do.

I fail to see why this is so difficult, nor do I understand why this needs to be dragged onto GUA.

Nightwish-Reloaded
31st December 2004, 04:30 PM
I really wanted to avoid posting in GUA, people here just dont see the basic stuff and see them from a really complicated point of view.

Boris: i dont know why you were gettin kicked, i dont care actually. Autokicks kick when people break a ule, even if the rule may be weird (the caps thingie) its a rule. Follow it, or face the consequences.

About the latter kicks, operators have earned the owner of the room's trust and their right to be ops, otherwise they wouldnt be there. Disrespecting them with posts like those you made so far is still against the rules. Gettin kicked or blacklisted because of that is just a normal consequence. Remember, the channel is the 'official' channel for koc, but that doesnt mean anyone that plays koc is always welcome. Also if the moderators (VOps and ops) arent doing their job right then the authorised people to remove their status will do so. Just stop whining for gettin kicked for breakin the rules and any abuses will be noticed by the right people. Just, give up, this isnt goin anywhere

And any kind of rules violation is ban worthy ;)
I dont see where it says that any breakin of the rules is NOT ban worthy

Carnage
31st December 2004, 04:33 PM
quite a lot of people come to the forums to complain about unfair treatment on irc, would it help if i created you guys a public group then they will know who to complain to. I can probably get a page added for all the koc staff to be listed on; irc ops, mods and admins.

should improve the situation.

Clone
31st December 2004, 04:49 PM
Again, send proof to Remco or another op so it can get to Remco. All you're doing now is baseless whining.

I have already done this. It is not my problem if you are too ignorant to look through this thread to find it.


1) You're not an op in that room, so you can't specify what is ban worthy or not.

I am sure MeNose is an op, and he said that insulting an op is not ban worthy. I don't make the rules, I just follow them.


2) You know for a fact you're blacklisted and continue to dodge bans. Your opinion is officially invalidated.

I was blacklisted unfairly, and this is only the 1st time I have ever tried to dodge the ban. And how again is my opinion invalid? Are you the "valid opinion" god now? Between you and blunderball, I get confused.


He didn't say you don't question the op at all, obviously, you don't pull a Boris, and outright disrescpect the op, but once a ban is set, you deal with it.

Yes he did. He said if you question an Op, then you should just leave.


I fail to see why this is so difficult, nor do I understand why this needs to be dragged onto GUA.

I did not drag it onto GUA, an Op of #KOC brought it here. I think people come here to complain about getting banned unfairly, because people of GUA listen. After all, if you go into #kingsofchaos and question an Op, you would be banned again for doing it.


boris: i dont know why you were gettin kicked, i dont care actually. Autokicks kick when people break a ule, even if the rule may be weird (the caps thingie) its a rule. Follow it, or face the consequences.

Does this rule include Ops? Ops are people too, even if all of them run scripts instead of moderate the channel.


Also if the moderators (VOps and ops) arent doing their job right then the authorised people to remove their status will do so.

Then obviously, the system is flawed.

Gah
31st December 2004, 04:51 PM
Actually boris Menose is a Op he goes by the name "FryMan"

boriszima
31st December 2004, 05:15 PM
Actually, boris was just following the rules presented by MeNose. Apparently, you are allowed to insult the ops and not recieve a ban.

So, do you consider this Op abuse? And are you going to do anything about it?


It depends on the language used, and whether the person has done it before. boris may not have used very bad language, but he does consistently insult ops, directly and indirectly. He's not as sneaky as he thinks.

you did avoided the question.

lets backtrack a little bit.

menose who is known as fryman (thank you Gah) has said explictly that banning for insulting for insulting an op is unworthy. so i wanted to test ouf if its true. so i argued with an op who bannec clone for ban dodging. even though as its been pointed out bans only last and hour, but if you were banned can comeback its still not allowed


[14:29] <boriszima> but bans only last for an hour
[14:29] <Teh-Pwnage> that tsunami is CRAZY
[14:29] <+Psh> Düffman is never wrong
[14:29] <+Psh> :X
[14:29] <@Düffman> You're thinking too literally
[14:29] * Joins: Frylock (~java@=XF14-717-66-579.wa.charter.com)
[14:29] <boriszima> Düffman is wrong now, so he is wrong
[14:29] <@Düffman> The channel ban only last an hour
[14:29] <@Düffman> Doesn't mean the person's welcome

Does anybody beside me see a biased there ? for me it seems like this
oh yeah boriszima is bad person, i should ban him for argueing with me. bam and its done. how come that does not follow under op abuse.

i know this wont get anywhere since ops and their respected voiced people have a bondship and wont do anything about it. but if we let aman know that people who run his official chatroom is mostly run by unworthy people.

this dragged into GUA because its part of koc and so is GUA. therefore its only logical to talk about it here. i mean we would talk about gua on irc but we would only be able to say one sentece and then get banned for some "costume made reason"

menose- you been proven wrong so many times here, i suggest you giveup and go back where you can do your lil power tripping.
captain- do i even know you ? if you have a diff irc name, then please state so.
Gah-yeah i know who is menose

Nightwish-Reloaded
31st December 2004, 05:17 PM
Also if the moderators (VOps and ops) arent doing their job right then the authorised people to remove their status will do so.



Then obviously, the system is flawed.

I dont see you beein the owner or a SOp to judge that.


Does this rule include Ops? Ops are people too, even if all of them run scripts instead of moderate the channel.

Scripts never kick for no reason. Even for example his #one thingie, #one is a channel, 'number one' is what he meant. Sorry for him not beein able to express clearly what he wants to say. After all, OPs are there to ensure that the rules are beeing followed and dont have to follow them. Otherwise the scripts would kick them dont you think?

Clone
31st December 2004, 05:32 PM
I dont see you beein the owner or a SOp to judge that.

Ah, so by your logic the Prime Minister of Britain can slaughter anyone that opposes him because he is the owner of that country and he judges his own actions as being legit.


Otherwise the scripts would kick them dont you think?

I would love it if it did. But there are occassions(more than 1), where an Op breaks a rule that doesn't trigger the script. How is that fair?

Also, I forgot to mention the abusiveness of the +m feature. You guys overuse that way too much, I mean how are noobs suppose to ask questions or have any fun in that channel when it is +m.

EDIT: whoops must have read over this:


After all, OPs are there to ensure that the rules are beeing followed and dont have to follow them.

Once again, how is that fair?

Carnage
31st December 2004, 05:46 PM
ok i dropped this page in, it may come in useful. so far only the admins and gua staff are listed, but would prove useful if at least some of the aop/vops from the channel are added so people know who to contact in the event of a complaint

http://www.giveupalready.com/kingsofchaosgroups.php

Krystin
31st December 2004, 05:46 PM
From reading this whole thing I can see where abuse has been taken out on members and where double standards exist. Instead of each side calling foul, what would be better is to come up with suggestions to improve what there is.

As a person who helps to run this forum and #gua I can understand where running a chatroom #koc can be a stressful job at times. But getting defensive (on both sides) and yelling I"m right and he is wrong doesn't solve problems. Discussing and suggesting ideas to help solve the problems are what are needed.

For example: a script that repeats back the words, like the example Carnage gave, is redundant on many levels. You ban for a certain word being used then you repeat the word that is not allowed shows people there are double standards no matter your reasoning. Personally, I think you can come up with something better.

Captain Tightpants
31st December 2004, 05:48 PM
Also, I forgot to mention the abusiveness of the +m feature. You guys overuse that way too much, I mean how are noobs suppose to ask questions or have any fun in that channel when it is +m.
And once more you prove you don't know what you're talking about. Mutes are rare, typically last less than two minutes, and have a cap of 10 minutes.

Gah
31st December 2004, 05:52 PM
Ok i suppose that is a decent enough idea carnage.. If we can get a good few of the Ops/Vops of Koc chat in there, The admin of koc are rarly seen in Koc chat aman comes in once in very great while and if he is in there its rare to see him speak.

Carnage
31st December 2004, 05:57 PM
three of the admins havn't reregistered on here yet. i presume they will when the new age is being set up and when they do i'll add them then. The way i was thinking of doing it is to have a public group for the ops, then you will have some control over who is in the group it also means i don't have to add/remove people when there are staff changes :P

i've spoken to antihope on irc about it and she's going to ask what the others think. but as krystin says, these problems need sorting and now is as good a time as any

Clone
31st December 2004, 05:58 PM
And once more you prove you don't know what you're talking about. Mutes are rare, typically last less than two minutes, and have a cap of 10 minutes.

Don't play the "your an ignorant moron who has no idea what he is talking about" card. I've been there and I know what is goes on:


[19:18] <clone> whois womble
[19:18] <+princess-magenta> omg is this true?
[19:18] * Hendikins sets mode: +m
[19:18] <+princess-magenta> lol
[19:18] <clone> yea
#kingsofchaos Cannot send to channel: Channel moderation is in effect (you must be voiced to speak)
[19:18] <+Lavitz\not_here> kakaka
[19:18] <+snoop123> what the hell is a womble anyhow?
[19:18] <+Metroid> Ah, ty hendi
[19:19] <+MeNoSe> womble is denny
[19:19] <+MeNoSe> idiots >_<
[19:19] <@Hendikins> Now, all of you, SHUT THE HELL UP
[19:19] <+MeNoSe> ...
[19:19] * paulluuzzzz (~java@=rIkdf334-324-409-45.dialup.zonnet.nl) has joined #kingsofchaos
[19:19] * Hendikins sets mode: +v Tessa
[19:19] <+MeNoSe> where the hell did Hendikins come from
[19:19] <+MeNoSe> lmao
[19:19] <+princess-magenta> you guys wouldn't know sarcasm if it bit you in the butt would you?
[19:19] <+Lavitz\not_here> WHY CN'T I TLK???
[19:19] <+Lavitz\not_here> :p
[19:19] <+snoop123> MeNoSe australia :P
[19:19] <+Metroid> MeNoSe: i called for him
[19:19] * Seven-of-Nine (~java@=X914001117.cable.casema.nl) has left #kingsofchaos
[19:19] <@Hendikins> Metroid: No you didn't, you made a general comment
[19:19] <+Metroid> meh
[19:19] <+Metroid> fine, dont make me feel special
[19:19] <+Lavitz\not_here> if you want to talk, pm DCz_power
[19:20] <@Hendikins> bastard :P
[19:20] * @womble laughs...
[19:20] * +MeNoSe pm's DCz_power
[19:20] <+snoop123> indeed DCz_power will voice you
[19:20] <@eriu> Lavitz\not_here - He's the creator of the game
[19:20] * thong (~java@=6eotkl-fh-omz-5-e32.telkom-ipnet.co.za) has joined #kingsofchaos
[19:20] <+snoop123> indeed DCz_power created Kingsofchaos
[19:20] <+Metroid> Yup
[19:20] <@eriu> You gotta PM him if you want to suggest anything/talk about cheaters
[19:20] <+Lavitz\not_here> yeah, it's true
[19:20] * badboy1289 (~java@=2fmovq-74-00-36-12.dsl.hstntx.swbell.net) has joined #kingsofchaos
[19:20] <+princess-magenta> poor DCz_power
[19:20] <clone> ?
#kingsofchaos Cannot send to channel: Channel moderation is in effect (you must be voiced to speak)
[19:20] <+MeNoSe> DCz_power will give you 30 million gold if you PM him stating I LOVE YOUR ASS!
[19:20] * bbnv (~java@=Rzzit4-w3pd2w5l.pool.mediaWays.net) Quit (QUIT: )
[19:20] <+Lavitz\not_here> yeah, to bad DuEy isn't around
[19:20] * jgoodwin (~java@=2A53-764-512-654.cpe.cableone.net) has joined #kingsofchaos
[19:20] <+Lavitz\not_here> if he was, i'd refer to him
[19:21] <+snoop123> Lavitz\not_here indeed
[19:21] * Sir_Lancelot (~java@192.217.109.Yr74=) has joined #kingsofchaos
[19:21] <+snoop123> duey is the other creator
[19:21] <+snoop123> if you see him
[19:21] * paulluuzzzz (~java@=rIkdf334-324-409-45.dialup.zonnet.nl) Quit (QUIT: )
[19:21] <+Lavitz\not_here> pm him
[19:21] * Sambizzle (~java@=P8m26.190.103.29.ts46v-01.mrshll.tx.charter.com) Quit (QUIT: )
[19:21] <+snoop123> Duey and DCz_power did the game, PM them for free gold
[19:21] <+MeNoSe> Lavitz\not_here: have you been telling people how pretty you are?
[19:21] * The_Last__Dragon (~java@=wOzqnd-gz-kme-9-j160.telkom-ipnet.co.za) has joined #kingsofchaos
[19:21] * badboy1289 (~java@=2fmovq-74-00-36-12.dsl.hstntx.swbell.net) Quit (QUIT: )
Session Time: Sat Nov 13 15:09:19 2004
[15:09] <+snoop123> DuEy is into sheep porn, so it helps if you have some of that
[15:09] <+Lavitz\not_here> MeNoSe: yes :p
[15:05] <+MeNoSe> i had a few noobs looking for you because they wanted to see your picture
[15:06] * Crovean (~SpoonMy@=ng177-539.241.81.adsl.skynet.be) has joined #kingsofchaos
[15:06] <+MeNoSe> i was like.....wth
[15:06] <@eriu> >_<
[15:06] * soldiergijs (~java@=Hezc17-12.skyaccess.nl) Quit (QUIT: )
[15:06] <@eriu> I read "noobs" as "boobs"
[15:06] <+MeNoSe> hah
[15:06] <+snoop123> eriu likes to have cyber sex
[15:06] <clone> ?
[15:06] <+snoop123> :P
#kingsofchaos Cannot send to channel: Channel moderation is in effect (you must be voiced to speak)
[15:06] <@eriu> >_< >_<!
[15:06] <@eriu> rofl
[15:06] <+Lavitz\not_here> it's true
[15:06] <@eriu> CYBAR!
[15:06] <+snoop123> PM eriu for hot cybersex and girl on girl action :P
[15:06] * Duc (~java@=5spmz-gxg-45-vsk-78-860-44-39.adsl.proxad.net) Quit (QUIT: )
[15:06] <@eriu> lol
[15:06] <@eriu> snoop123 is the other girl ;)
[15:06] <+snoop123> indeed
[15:07] <+Metroid> lol
[15:07] <+Metroid> So thats why snoop123 likes gah
[15:07] * jgoodwin (~java@=2A53-764-512-654.cpe.cableone.net) Quit (QUIT: )
[15:07] <+Metroid> That makes a lot more sense
[15:07] * @Hendikins is away: Flushed with excitement
[15:07] * hfs (~java@=WI7w24t04373.boanxx14.adsl-dhcp.tele.dk) has joined #kingsofchaos
[15:08] <+Metroid> \pop: Do not pm me without permission
[15:08] <+Metroid> \pop: Do you think in foolish to tell everyone my koc name in here, especially being that i do not play this game
[15:08] * thong (~java@=6eotkl-fh-omz-5-e32.telkom-ipnet.co.za) Quit (QUIT: )
[15:08] <+Metroid> sinisterkills: same to you
[15:08] <+Metroid> SW: you too
[15:08] <+princess-magenta> my name is mistress-magenta in game
[15:08] <+Metroid> \pop: i will not shut up, and stop pming me
[15:08] <+princess-magenta> womble's name in game is denny
[15:08] <+princess-magenta> gogogo
[15:09] <+Metroid> sinisterkills: you should care
[15:09] <+snoop123> princess-magenta would like to show you her webcam if you message her in game or here :P
[15:09] * danny_astbury (~java@=qS73-236-510-85.stb.ubr03.pres.blueyonder.co.uk) has joined #kingsofchaos
[15:09] <@eriu> how long has moderation been on?
[15:09] <+Metroid> \pop: Thats nice, "[15:10] *\pop* u will u jerk"
[15:09] * +princess-magenta bites snoop123
[15:09] <+Metroid> About 4 minutes
[15:09] <+Metroid> Im getting flooded with PMs
[15:09] <+Lavitz\not_here> you know, I wanted to say "womble loves men!" to ridicule him, but somehow, it just wouldn't work..
[15:09] <@eriu> Metroid - Just ignore it :/
[15:09] <+Lavitz\not_here> damn you
[15:09] <+snoop123> am I the only voice that isn't getting PMed
[15:09] <+Metroid> [15:10] *\pop* shut the bloody hell up
[15:09] <+snoop123> Lavitz\not_here that would be just sort of stupid
[15:09] <@eriu> lol Lav
[15:09] <+Metroid> I know who im banning when eriu is not here for 2 minutes
[15:09] <+Lavitz\not_here> yeah..
[15:09] * ms_pimp (~java@201.129.220.Y686=) has joined #kingsofchaos
[15:09] * Remco- sets mode: +b *!*@201.129.220.*
[15:09] * Info: This *!*@201.129.220.* ban affects ms_pimp
[15:09] * ms_pimp was kicked by Remco- (banned: G[oaway moron :: banned by: Remco- :[
[15:09] <+Metroid> [15:11] *\pop* ur dumb :)
[15:10] <+snoop123> because you know he's been boning magenta :P
[15:10] <+Lavitz\not_here> lol
[15:10] * eriu sets mode: -m

Honestly now, was that really necessary to put on +m especially with Hendikin's comment. Look at what they talked about....really good stuff for a room that only tolerates things a 10 year old should hear.

EDIT: Bolded some things that I would have been banned for saying, or I think need to be looked at.

Krystin
31st December 2004, 06:04 PM
ok, when I said enough I meant enough.....closing this for a hour or more to give everyone a bloody chance to calm down

It's been 3 hours since the closing, re-opened- clone

Blitz
31st December 2004, 09:59 PM
I'd just like to say that moderators here on GUA abide by quite strict rules of conduct. We all know the rules, and that we have to abide by them in order to keep our positions. In fact, the rules are enforced quite well on GUA, in my opinion, despite their being only 6 KoC Moderators and far more visitors on GUA than on #kingsofchaos.

So, can't the IRC ops enforce the rules like we do here on GUA? Don't automatically give a warning (or kick) to those who break the rules the first time. Tell them not to, and give them a second (or, dare I say, third) chance. And, before banning them, even for an hour, give them several chances. Take a look at how many members are first given a second chance, how many warnings are given, and then at how many members are banned. It's amazing how many people are trying to obey the rules, but simply don't know all the rules.

On the topic of auto-kicking, etc.: Imagine if GUA tried that. Giving out a warning automatically every time a member posted a unique link, or something like that. We would alienate hundreds of new members that simply were not informed that it was against GUA policies, and discourage them from participating.

Now, it is fairly obvious that GUA moderators, and other players such as Boris, are responsible members of GUA. Otherwise we would have either not been promoted to such ranks, or been warned frequently on these forums. That suggests that the problem lays with the channel, and not with the members, unless of course one assumes that IRC is somehow 'evil' and brings out the worst in people, which is a leap I'm not willing to make. ;)

Clone
1st January 2005, 01:55 AM
(22:10:46) (@DracoAffectus) hehehe
(22:10:48) (@DracoAffectus) this is funny
(22:10:49) (ZyRoth) lol Gah
(22:10:53) (SomeDude1214) huh?
(22:10:54) —› quit: (Heidler) (~java@=Q3eyjsih693170.htc.net) (QUIT
(22:10:55) —› part: (sess) (~java@=nGz-26-09-51-117.client.comcast.net)
(22:10:55) (ZyRoth) you and you 3000 spies
(22:10:56) (@DracoAffectus) everyone want to hear a joke?
(22:10:59) (ZyRoth) and 3000 hooks
(22:11:00) (@DracoAffectus) ok good
(22:11:04) —› join: (Kahn) (~java@=Q3eyjsih693170.htc.net)
(22:11:04) (+Gah) sure draco
(22:11:04) • @DracoAffectus doesn't let anyone say no
(22:11:06) (SomeDude1214) mmm 3000 hookers
(22:11:07) —› mode: (DracoAffectus) sets (+m)
(22:11:10) (+Gah) lol
(22:11:17) (@DracoAffectus) Through the pitch-black night, the captain sees a light dead ahead on a collision course with his ship. He sends a signal: “Change your course 10 degree east.”
(22:11:17) (@DracoAffectus) The light signals back: “Change yours, 10 degrees west.”
(22:11:18) (@DracoAffectus) Angry, the captain sends: “I’m a navy captain! Change your course, sir!”
(22:11:18) (@DracoAffectus) “I’m a seaman, second class,” comes the reply. “Change your course, sir.”
(22:11:19) (@DracoAffectus) Now the captain is furious. “I’m a battleship! I’m not changing course!”
(22:11:19) (@DracoAffectus) There is one last reply. “I’m a lighthouse. Your call.”
(22:11:25) —› join: (ayama) (~java@=xGbwsh-852-990-355.asm.bellsouth.net)
(22:11:26) —› join: (so) (~java@=SH377-53-795-535.g-net.net)
(22:11:34) —› mode: (DracoAffectus) sets (-m)
(22:11:39) (ZyRoth) lol
(22:11:41) (ZyRoth) that sucked
(22:11:42) (SomeDude1214) damnit
(22:11:42) (Kahn) hhahahaahha your seman is second class
(22:11:44) (MinnionOfChaos) wth?
(22:11:47) —› quit: (mint_jelly) (~java@202.189.67.qh587=) (QUIT
(22:11:50) (ZyRoth) :P
(22:11:51) (+Gah) rofl DracoAffectus
(22:11:54) • Stereochild burps loudly as he finishes the potato salad off
(22:11:55) (SomeDude1214) pissin me off
(22:12:04) —› kick: (Kahn) was kicked by (DracoAffectus) (You really wanted it, right? ‹424›)
(22:15:07) —› join: (Kahn) (~java@=3oylfxsc180506.htc.net)
(22:15:11) (+Psh) lol
(22:15:14) (+Gah) ban him DracoAffectus!!
(22:15:16) • @DracoAffectus has a new years party to get ready for
(22:15:17) (ZyRoth) Gah - so which game looked batter Lotr war of the ring or warvraft?
(22:15:19) —› kick: (Kahn) was kicked by (DracoAffectus) (You're not welcome here ‹425›)
(22:15:19) —› mode: (DracoAffectus) sets (+b *!*@=3oylfxsc180506.htc.net)

This type of behavior is classic example of Op abuse.

I ask again, are you going to do anything about it? Or are you just going to "talk" to him?

Shadowfox
1st January 2005, 04:01 AM
I have visited the place ....
I just don't visit it ANYMORE!!

I can make these accusations because I was one of those being kicked by you stupid scripts!

Carnage
1st January 2005, 05:08 AM
enought of the accusations of what has happened/is happening. We all know what goes on in the channel. What we now need is some solutions, ive already offered the group page for the ops here on gua so people know who to complain to. Are there any other ways to help stop the op (abuse) and make the channel fairer.

I was considering writing a script now to auto kick for the things they auto kick for but just to log how meny times the ops/vops do them.

I still maintain that cthulhu can do a much better job than the ops scripts providing it and the channel is set up correctly.

Hendikins
1st January 2005, 06:12 AM
Having had my attention drawn to this thread by some trolling in #kingsofchaos, I'd just like to give my 2 cents worth on the matter, as somebody who has been a channel operator for a reasonable length of time.

#1. Kicking for fun is not tolerated. We've recently pruned the VOp list because of it, and we have in the past pruned the AOp list for it as well.

#2. The channel operators are not above the rules. As well as it being routine for channel operators to be kicked for breaking them, we've removed people from the AOp list for constantly breaking the channel rules.

#3. Reality bites. Anyone who gets kicked is going to believe that the kick is unjustified, regardless of the reality of the situation. The operators in the channel are human, and have a set of guidelines to follow. Certain things are at the discretion of the op[s] who are active at the time - you can't give a fixed definition of what is considered trolling, for example.

Now, for a couple of comments on how I personally handle things:

#1. Yes, I do have a habit of registering nicks of people who are repeatedly problematic. I've found that if they won't learn, it will eventually either make them learn or give up. I use this quite sparingly now - I'm averaging ~1 ghosting per day.

#2. I would rather moderate for a few moments that kick a whole bunch of people. Usually if I moderate, I give a warning about why I have moderated, and a warning of what will happen if I turn the moderation off and the problems don't stop.

#3. I'm human. I'm not perfect, I make mistakes. However, of the 1400 bans I've set since August 24 (which is the last time I rotated my IRC logs), I'd estimate that <0.5% were completely uncalled for. I wouldn't be able to give a figure for judgement calls without reading through my entire 80+MB log, so I won't.

If you have further queries, particularly on how I handle things, you'll know where to find me.

Strider
1st January 2005, 06:49 AM
Blah... I see both sides, Although some Op's don't realise that they are there to enforce the rules, not make them...

Advent
1st January 2005, 07:17 AM
#1. Yes, I do have a habit of registering nicks of people who are repeatedly problematic. I've found that if they won't learn, it will eventually either make them learn or give up. I use this quite sparingly now - I'm averaging ~1 ghosting per day.

It's still absolutely wrong! By registering someone's nick, you've given yourself jurisdiction over the entire network, not just your own channel. If someone's being a real pain in the ass, go ahead and kickban them from the channel -- don't go and basically a-ghost them.




#2. I would rather moderate for a few moments that kick a whole bunch of people. Usually if I moderate, I give a warning about why I have moderated, and a warning of what will happen if I turn the moderation off and the problems don't stop.

And the last time I was in #kingsofchaos, which was at two am, I lead a perfectly fine political discussion and noone else was talking, until someone decides to moderate the channel.


1

Solution

1] Get a real evidence/court/judicial system. There are too many examples where #kingsofchaos guests get kicked off the channel injustly, and when they report the logs to a supervisor, they're discredited as "fake".

2] Either get yourself less operators, or more supervisors. The only person I know that actually does something about loose cannons is Remco, and I don't think he can actually keep everyone in check.

3] Shake the "My ban count is bigger than yours" penis-envy enviroment. It's ridiculous. It's like you walk into a fourth-grade locker room and you see the little asian kid desperately trying to shower in hot water..

My point is that ban counts often lead to rivalries among operators, where quality falls to the statistic of quantity. This leads to overexaggeration of the rules.

4] Legislative faults. Instead of just opping anyone who you like or is active in the channel, you should train your operators to shake this unprofessional image you've attracted. Tell them not to:

a] aghost (register nicks and then ghost them upon entry of the network) anyone. It's cowardly, completely unprofessional, and worst of all it's a loophole that gives your operators more jurisdiction than they need/are granted.

b] kickban for mild transgressions of the rules. (Self explanatory)

c] Turn off some of their idiotic and annoying kick-scripts. There are perfectly fine ways to swear without flaming anyone. Example, and yes I did see this happen:

<Noob> Hey, is there any way to turn off sabotage?
<Operator> No.
<Noob> What?! That sucks :(
* Noob has been kicked by operator (Bad word: sucks)
* Noob joined the channel
<Operator> Don't say bad words.
<Noob> ?? What's so bad about sucks? It's not like shit or fuck is..
!! K-Line added for Noob. IP-banned from the internet.

Okay, maybe I exaggerated a bit.. But seriously, your scripts are annoying as hell. And worst of all, every op has a script for something else.. Why not just create one master-bot who holds all the scripts and deop all of the other inactive fucks?

It's nice to have anti-flooding scripts, but an active human operator is a much better alternative.


d] Not sink to the fourth-grade asian kid with a small penis level of "my post count is smaller than yours! Therefore I must be on at all times and kick whoever breaks the rules, even if their transgression disturbs noone in the channel.

In regards to the rules: Refine them to use more common sense. I don't think it's nice to be a bitch about the word "fuck", and allow "wtf". Or allowing the word "homosexual" and banning for the word "gay". In fact, in my opinion, your entire swear-word-ban hysteria is ludicrous. Ban for real transgressions such as flaming.. Not for saying "Man, today is such a merry and gay day!". Again, just get rid of your immature scripts and get yourself some real ops.

Hendikins
1st January 2005, 07:50 AM
It's still absolutely wrong! By registering someone's nick, you've given yourself jurisdiction over the entire network, not just your own channel. If someone's being a real pain in the ass, go ahead and kickban them from the channel -- don't go and basically a-ghost them.

I don't do automatic anything.


And the last time I was in #kingsofchaos, which was at two am, I lead a perfectly fine political discussion and noone else was talking, until someone decides to moderate the channel.

Common sense tells you that politics and religion are not fit topics for discussion, particularly in an environment such as this one.




1] Get a real evidence/court/judicial system. There are too many examples where #kingsofchaos guests get kicked off the channel injustly, and when they report the logs to a supervisor, they're discredited as "fake".


That's simple enough. Check against the logs of several ops, I'd make the appropriate sections available upon request. Doesn't mean anything to me if any individual is or isn't banned.



2] Either get yourself less operators, or more supervisors. The only person I know that actually does something about loose cannons is Remco, and I don't think he can actually keep everyone in check.


We have had the SOps dealing with loose cannons.



3] Shake the "My ban count is bigger than yours" penis-envy enviroment. It's ridiculous. It's like you walk into a fourth-grade locker room and you see the little asian kid desperately trying to shower in hot water..


I keep a rough count (grep -c) out of sheer curiousity, and some of the regular users find it interesting or amusing.



My point is that ban counts often lead to rivalries among operators, where quality falls to the statistic of quantity. This leads to overexaggeration of the rules.


I don't care about banning - I'd rather a channel where I didn't have to ban people. I'm an operator in the official Mozilla Firefox channel, and can count the number of bans I've set in that channel in the last year on one hand. I can also tell you the number of people I've given a ban of any length to on my own moznet channel in the entire 2 years it has been operating: 4.



4] Legislative faults. Instead of just opping anyone who you like or is active in the channel, you should train your operators to shake this unprofessional image you've attracted. Tell them not to:


We don't just randomly op people. The procedure goes something along the lines of somebody who is a channel regular and not a cause of problems will initially get UOp status, then VOp status. If the SOps decide that a VOp can be trusted, they may get a trial of access to the kick scripts that operate. If all the channel operators agree, then a VOp with kick access may get a trial run as a channel operator.



a] aghost (register nicks and then ghost them upon entry of the network) anyone. It's cowardly, completely unprofessional, and worst of all it's a loophole that gives your operators more jurisdiction than they need/are granted.


I personally don't believe that automatic anything is a substitute for good supervision. Nicks, however, are fair game within reason.



b] kickban for mild transgressions of the rules. (Self explanatory)


Warn, kick, ban. 3 strikes. Doesn't strike me as unfair...



c] Turn off some of their idiotic and annoying kick-scripts. There are perfectly fine ways to swear without flaming anyone. Example, and yes I did see this happen:

<Noob> Hey, is there any way to turn off sabotage?
<Operator> No.
<Noob> What?! That sucks :(
* Noob has been kicked by operator (Bad word: sucks)
* Noob joined the channel
<Operator> Don't say bad words.
<Noob> ?? What's so bad about sucks? It's not like shit or fuck is..
!! K-Line added for Noob. IP-banned from the internet.


Exaggeration does nothing to help your arguments, in fact, it hinders them...



Okay, maybe I exaggerated a bit.. But seriously, your scripts are annoying as hell. And worst of all, every op has a script for something else.. Why not just create one master-bot who holds all the scripts and deop all of the other inactive fucks?

I've actually suggested having the automatic stuff handled by a single bot. I don't run any automatic scripts of any sort, partially because I'm too lazy to learn perl, python or TCL and write one.



It's nice to have anti-flooding scripts, but an active human operator is a much better alternative.


Nothing I haven't said myself.



d] Not sink to the fourth-grade asian kid with a small penis level of "my post count is smaller than yours! Therefore I must be on at all times and kick whoever breaks the rules, even if their transgression disturbs noone in the channel.


What is the point of having rules if we don't enforce them? Sporadic enforcement of rules simply results in people pushing the boundaries.



In regards to the rules: Refine them to use more common sense. I don't think it's nice to be a bitch about the word "fuck", and allow "wtf". Or allowing the word "homosexual" and banning for the word "gay". In fact, in my opinion, your entire swear-word-ban hysteria is ludicrous. Ban for real transgressions such as flaming.. Not for saying "Man, today is such a merry and gay day!". Again, just get rid of your immature scripts and get yourself some real ops.


When it comes to word kicking, think of it this way. I feel the channel is worthy of a G8+ rating because of the ages of some of the people who visit (leaving aside the fact I don't believe anyone under the age of 15 should be using the internet without parental or other supervision...). Would you tell an 8 year old to fuck off?

One must also take in to account the context in which words are used. I can tell you right now, 99% of people who use the word "gay" are not using it in the sense you listed.

To quote an oft used Slashdot moderation rating, "-1, Troll".

Carnage
1st January 2005, 08:58 AM
A point i'm trying to make which no-one seems to be acnowledging is that often the ops KICK messages are derogitary. if you kick someone with the message "GO away! I hate you" they aren't going to come back in a better mood and are even more liklyto keep breaking rules, as you've pointed out you have young kids in there, very few have common sence. If someone attacks them they attack back it happens alot in the game, some kid dosn't like that you attacked them for a good steal and come back with flaming sabs etc, then they complain when your alliance decimates them.

Its a very similar situation the ops in the channel, don't attempt to diffuse any problems that arise, instead they add to them and eventually ban the offending user.

Phyrus
1st January 2005, 09:41 AM
what alot of people dont notice and what took me a while to realise is that these kick messages you speak of are default programmed messages in NoNameScript irc skin and the ops pretty much cant be bothered taking them out putting their own in.

Gah
1st January 2005, 09:44 AM
clone my god you need to calm down alot, Draco simply set moderation for maybe 30 seconds so he could post a joke, omg!! get the pitch forks and torchs!!.. As soon as the joke was told he was let it up,

Advent
1st January 2005, 10:35 AM
I don't do automatic anything.

It's still giving you a jurisdiction you don't deserve. And if I recall, Chatchannel doesn't merit that type of BS behavior.


Common sense tells you that politics and religion are not fit topics for discussion, particularly in an environment such as this one.

Common sense tells me that if a channel is absolutely silent, I could basically start up any topic without being a pain in the ass to others. If an operator wants silence rather than political discussion, he could just as well leave to another channel.


That's simple enough. Check against the logs of several ops, I'd make the appropriate sections available upon request. Doesn't mean anything to me if any individual is or isn't banned.

Huh? Please, reword.

And, simply unbanning a user won't help much, either. You'll still have that loose cannon on your staff.

To be honest, I really don't understand what you're trying to say with that quote..


We have had the SOps dealing with loose cannons.

How many SOps?


I keep a rough count (grep -c) out of sheer curiousity, and some of the regular users find it interesting or amusing.

That's not the problem. The problem is that certain operators believe that in order to be a "good op", they need to acquire a high kick-count.


I don't care about banning - I'd rather a channel where I didn't have to ban people. I'm an operator in the official Mozilla Firefox channel, and can count the number of bans I've set in that channel in the last year on one hand. I can also tell you the number of people I've given a ban of any length to on my own moznet channel in the entire 2 years it has been operating: 4.

Sorry, I meant Kick-counts..


We don't just randomly op people. The procedure goes something along the lines of somebody who is a channel regular and not a cause of problems will initially get UOp status, then VOp status. If the SOps decide that a VOp can be trusted, they may get a trial of access to the kick scripts that operate. If all the channel operators agree, then a VOp with kick access may get a trial run as a channel operator.

And after that, they're left absolutely unchecked and are free to do whatever they wish, seeing as how countless reports of operator abuse are shrugged off by saying "Those are fake".


I personally don't believe that automatic anything is a substitute for good supervision. Nicks, however, are fair game within reason.

You also believe that automatic anythings can't substitute human supervision. So get rid of those countless scripts.


Warn, kick, ban. 3 strikes. Doesn't strike me as unfair...

1] This is only under the condition that the operator is in a good mood. I've seen cases where an individual says the F-word, and an operator bans him immediately.

2] It's harder not to break the rules than it is to break them. That's something you might want to look into... Especially with your anti-swearing policy in action.. I can break three rules in an hour, by accident, simply by having a loose, unsophisticated vocabulary..

Do me a favor and post a list of kick/warn/ban-worthy words.



Exaggeration does nothing to help your arguments, in fact, it hinders them...

Yet you are still not able to come up with a counter-argument?




I've actually suggested having the automatic stuff handled by a single bot. I don't run any automatic scripts of any sort, partially because I'm too lazy to learn perl, python or TCL and write one.

And who decides whether or not this is done? Who denies or accepts your requests?

And I congratulate you on not writing any scripts to substitute your supervision. Unluckily, countless operators don't supervise the channels anymore -- they just let the automatic scripts handle it.



What is the point of having rules if we don't enforce them? Sporadic enforcement of rules simply results in people pushing the boundaries.

There used to be a feeling of "I am a good moderator the more warnings I submit" here on GUA. We shook that feeling, after the admins, SMODs and Senior Moderators had a talk with the newbie mods who had succumbed to this atmosphere. You should do the same.




When it comes to word kicking, think of it this way. I feel the channel is worthy of a G8+ rating because of the ages of some of the people who visit (leaving aside the fact I don't believe anyone under the age of 15 should be using the internet without parental or other supervision...). Would you tell an 8 year old to fuck off?

I don't see the huge difference of "Come back when you've stopped being lame", "Go home and never come back", "Get the fuck out of my channel" and "Fuck Off"..


One must also take in to account the context in which words are used. I can tell you right now, 99% of people who use the word "gay" are not using it in the sense you listed.

That statistic is off, I believe. And it still doesn't change the fact that the script of the operator in question can still be used or abused to kick innocents.

I remember me and Rouen laughing our asses off when we'd ask people in #kingsofchaos "What character did Ben Stiller play in Meet the Parents?" and people would reply "Gay Focker" and get kicked. Did we ever get kicked or banned for it? No. Judging by this example, you can see why these scripts should not be allowed.


To quote an oft used Slashdot moderation rating, "-1, Troll".

I don't get it?

Hendikins
1st January 2005, 12:48 PM
Can't this thing do nested quotes? Sheesh!



Quote:
Originally Posted by Hendikins
I don't do automatic anything.


It's still giving you a jurisdiction you don't deserve. And if I recall, Chatchannel doesn't merit that type of BS behavior.


I'll leave that up to the IRCOps to decide, a couple of them are sitting in #kingsofchaos. I also leave the nicks usable (protect=off) and let them automatically (or even explicitly) drop.



Quote:
Common sense tells you that politics and religion are not fit topics for discussion, particularly in an environment such as this one.


Common sense tells me that if a channel is absolutely silent, I could basically start up any topic without being a pain in the ass to others. If an operator wants silence rather than political discussion, he could just as well leave to another channel.


And common courtesy tells you that if it isn't on-topic, it isn't fit for discussion. Do you lack that?



Quote:
That's simple enough. Check against the logs of several ops, I'd make the appropriate sections available upon request. Doesn't mean anything to me if any individual is or isn't banned.


Huh? Please, reword.


Simply: If one person claims fabrication, ask several.



And, simply unbanning a user won't help much, either. You'll still have that loose cannon on your staff.


So monitor the staff.



Quote:
We have had the SOps dealing with loose cannons.


How many SOps?


I can think of 4 off hand.



Quote:
I keep a rough count (grep -c) out of sheer curiousity, and some of the regular users find it interesting or amusing.


That's not the problem. The problem is that certain operators believe that in order to be a "good op", they need to acquire a high kick-count.


A good op is one who would rather not resort to such actions in the first place.



Quote:
I don't care about banning - I'd rather a channel where I didn't have to ban people. I'm an operator in the official Mozilla Firefox channel, and can count the number of bans I've set in that channel in the last year on one hand. I can also tell you the number of people I've given a ban of any length to on my own moznet channel in the entire 2 years it has been operating: 4.


Sorry, I meant Kick-counts..


In the publicly accessible stats for my channel (http://wolfox.f2o.org/bs/stats.html), I don't even rate a mention on the top kickers list, meaning I haven't managed >= 85 kicks in 307 days. I'd hardly call that kick-crazy.



Quote:
We don't just randomly op people. The procedure goes something along the lines of somebody who is a channel regular and not a cause of problems will initially get UOp status, then VOp status. If the SOps decide that a VOp can be trusted, they may get a trial of access to the kick scripts that operate. If all the channel operators agree, then a VOp with kick access may get a trial run as a channel operator.


And after that, they're left absolutely unchecked and are free to do whatever they wish, seeing as how countless reports of operator abuse are shrugged off by saying "Those are fake".


We have recently removed at least 1 AOp and a couple of VOps for abuse of power. Therefore I'd say you don't have a terribly close relationship with the truth (or you don't bother to let the facts get in the way of a good story).



Quote:
I personally don't believe that automatic anything is a substitute for good supervision. Nicks, however, are fair game within reason.


You also believe that automatic anythings can't substitute human supervision. So get rid of those countless scripts.


I'd centralise, not completely remove. They're an aid, not a substitute.



Quote:
Warn, kick, ban. 3 strikes. Doesn't strike me as unfair...


1] This is only under the condition that the operator is in a good mood. I've seen cases where an individual says the F-word, and an operator bans him immediately.


If it comes after the user having already been an ass, that is hardly a surprise.



2] It's harder not to break the rules than it is to break them. That's something you might want to look into... Especially with your anti-swearing policy in action.. I can break three rules in an hour, by accident, simply by having a loose, unsophisticated vocabulary..


Then get your mind (and vocabulary) out of the gutter.



Do me a favor and post a list of kick/warn/ban-worthy words.


I don't have an explicitly defined list on hand, although the matter has been discussed at length. Repeatedly.



Quote:
Exaggeration does nothing to help your arguments, in fact, it hinders them...


Yet you are still not able to come up with a counter-argument?


You're not giving me anything to counter. The only way to counter blatent and unrequired exaggeration is to call you a liar.




Quote:
I've actually suggested having the automatic stuff handled by a single bot. I don't run any automatic scripts of any sort, partially because I'm too lazy to learn perl, python or TCL and write one.


And who decides whether or not this is done? Who denies or accepts your requests?


Remco-.



And I congratulate you on not writing any scripts to substitute your supervision. Unluckily, countless operators don't supervise the channels anymore -- they just let the automatic scripts handle it.


They can be a useful aid at times, for things that would never be done within the rules. Complete elimination would be just as bad as not having them, if not worse.



Quote:
What is the point of having rules if we don't enforce them? Sporadic enforcement of rules simply results in people pushing the boundaries.


There used to be a feeling of "I am a good moderator the more warnings I submit" here on GUA. We shook that feeling, after the admins, SMODs and Senior Moderators had a talk with the newbie mods who had succumbed to this atmosphere. You should do the same.


People should read the rules too, but you don't see them doing that... (and I don't count ignorance as an excuse).



Quote:
When it comes to word kicking, think of it this way. I feel the channel is worthy of a G8+ rating because of the ages of some of the people who visit (leaving aside the fact I don't believe anyone under the age of 15 should be using the internet without parental or other supervision...). Would you tell an 8 year old to fuck off?


I don't see the huge difference of "Come back when you've stopped being lame", "Go home and never come back", "Get the fuck out of my channel" and "Fuck Off"..


I'm not overly supportive of such messages, even if I've been known to use them on the odd occasion. When you're perfect, you can bitch if I slip up...



Quote:
One must also take in to account the context in which words are used. I can tell you right now, 99% of people who use the word "gay" are not using it in the sense you listed.


That statistic is off, I believe. And it still doesn't change the fact that the script of the operator in question can still be used or abused to kick innocents.


I gather you're unfamiliar with the concept of acceptable risk. The odds of such a kick being a misfire are so low as to almost not be worth considering. Something has to give somewhere.



I remember me and Rouen laughing our asses off when we'd ask people in #kingsofchaos "What character did Ben Stiller play in Meet the Parents?" and people would reply "Gay Focker" and get kicked. Did we ever get kicked or banned for it? No. Judging by this example, you can see why these scripts should not be allowed.


If somebody kept pushing people in to getting auto-kicked, I'd do anything ranging from telling them off to banning them.



Quote:
To quote an oft used Slashdot moderation rating, "-1, Troll".


I don't get it?


I'm calling you a troll, in as many words.

Zap
1st January 2005, 01:05 PM
errm flame war?

it have only been 2 days since I last took a look in here and now there are more than 100 replies :erm:

Gah
1st January 2005, 01:18 PM
Actually its a pretty decent convo going on when people who have no idea what they are talking about are notposting, ( Clone ) but we do get some who talk that know where talking about (carnage ,Hendikins)

Baldwin
1st January 2005, 01:20 PM
I was on for 5 minutes: And maybe some 8 year old was there too ;p


<FryMan> Moral standards are for pusses :)
* FryMan does every soft core drug thinkable
<FryMan> Thats my only standard
<Physkotix> soft core?
<FryMan> Physkotix: Soft core as in Shrooms, Alcohol, And pot
<FryMan> MAYBE A little x on the side
<FryMan> But only about once a year
<Physkotix> im 14

now there were younger people in there too at that time. So indeed next time you OP's do accuse me of swearing when i type wtf, think about yourself, and do be hypocrites

edit: ofcourse i picked out your conversation and did not type all the other lines of all the other people.


<halodragon> kate av u got m sn?
<FryMan> -_-
<SS_deathshead> lol
<FryMan> Heh
<SidereusNox> :|
<FryMan> I typed it wrong
<FryMan> :P
</dev/null> .net
<SidereusNox> lol
</dev/null> nutsack
<Kate> halodragon, no masking or trading messanger names
* SidereusNox has quit IRC (QUIT: )
<halodragon> kate u got m s n?
<Black_Monkey> dammit java sucks...
<Kate> halodragon, no masking or trading messanger names
<FryMan> /dev/null I am aware of that, ball sucker
<FryMan> ;P
<bonebone> wow
* HappyHangOverDay has quit IRC (Ping Timeout)
</dev/null> ass eater
<SS_deathshead> wth
<bonebone> love the language
<FryMan> Man slut
<halodragon> y is this chat so strikt
<BigBoned> bye bye
<halodragon> ?
</dev/null> cock whore
* /dev/null was kicked by DracoAffectus (You're tacky and I hate you (cock)! 12‹45312›)
* BigBoned has quit IRC (QUIT: )
* /dev/null has joined #kingsofchaos
* /dev/null was kicked by Düffman (Watch your filthy little mouth! 12‹5507412›)
* /dev/null has joined #kingsofchaos
* ChanServ sets mode: +v /dev/null
<FryMan> Heh
<FryMan> I win
<Kate> lol
<bonebone> anus
</dev/null> aww weak
<p0> FryMan : if you're the nut sack and you call him the ball eater doesn't that mean something?
<Kate> silly neo
<FryMan> p0
<FryMan> STHU


<halodragon> wot is masking?
<Kate> lol andy
<Baldwin> halodragon
<FryMan> halodragon: You're lucky i was distracted with kate -_- or your ass woulda been gone
<FryMan> >_>


<Baldwin> I love the language in here it provides excellent counterposts on GUA
<Louna> p0 no i was planning to send that to you ;)
* milsy hugs Leo
<Gah> Baldwin: well perhaps if you people would get a life
<SidereusNox> hmm
<milsy> haha
<SidereusNox> maybe i shouldnt have left
<Louna> yes!
<Gah> and not set there and watch us and then run off to cry and post in GUA

Advent
1st January 2005, 01:30 PM
This thread will remain open under the condition no more flaming will occur.

4



I'll leave that up to the IRCOps to decide, a couple of them are sitting in #kingsofchaos. I also leave the nicks usable (protect=off) and let them automatically (or even explicitly) drop.

Fair enough. Perhaps they haven't been notified of the actions you've committed. Don't worry, I won't do it, seeing as how you've never ghosted me.


And common courtesy tells you that if it isn't on-topic, it isn't fit for discussion. Do you lack that?

It's well on-topic.


Simply: If one person claims fabrication, ask several.

Fair enough, however there have been instances where several reports came in (with logs), and the only reason nothing was done was because the operator himself said "Those are fake".



So monitor the staff.

Exactly what I'm asking for.


I can think of 4 off hand.

And I see 34 people having uOp/vOp/aOp in #kingsofchaos right now. And no sOp online?


A good op is one who would rather not resort to such actions in the first place.

It shows you didn't employ good ops in the first place.



In the publicly accessible stats for my channel (http://wolfox.f2o.org/bs/stats.html), I don't even rate a mention on the top kickers list, meaning I haven't managed >= 85 kicks in 307 days. I'd hardly call that kick-crazy.

And I'm not talking about you. I'm talking about the staff you're in charge of, or you're part of..




We have recently removed at least 1 AOp and a couple of VOps for abuse of power. Therefore I'd say you don't have a terribly close relationship with the truth (or you don't bother to let the facts get in the way of a good story).

I've seen an operator kick me after I asked him why a certain individual was banned, after that individual showed me logs of admin abuse.

The operator in question is still on the staff, even though I filed two reports.


I'd centralise, not completely remove. They're an aid, not a substitute.

See, this is where hypocrisy kicks in. I can't say "Shit" or "fuck", but I can tell people they should rape small children, or can threaten to kill them.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v514/Mars05/hmm2.bmp

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v514/Mars05/Hmm.bmp

These scripts don't aid at all.


Then get your mind (and vocabulary) out of the gutter.

If swearing is illegal, so should death-threats, and telling someone to go and rape young boys.




You're not giving me anything to counter. The only way to counter blatent and unrequired exaggeration is to call you a liar.

The only exaggerated part of my quote was where I talked about the k-lined, and being banned from the internet.



Remco-.

And what was his reason for turning down your proposal?


They can be a useful aid at times, for things that would never be done within the rules. Complete elimination would be just as bad as not having them, if not worse.

Huh? Complete elimination equals them not existing? 0 = 0? I don't understand what you're trying to say.


People should read the rules too, but you don't see them doing that... (and I don't count ignorance as an excuse).

Of course not.. However what's better, reforming a user to obey the rules and to respect them? Or to just kick them out of lazyness?



I'm not overly supportive of such messages, even if I've been known to use them on the odd occasion. When you're perfect, you can bitch if I slip up...

I'm just pointing out hypocrisies in your (the #kingsofchaos staff) policy.


I gather you're unfamiliar with the concept of acceptable risk. The odds of such a kick being a misfire are so low as to almost not be worth considering. Something has to give somewhere.

So tell me, why wouldn't a supervising mod do the job?


If somebody kept pushing people in to getting auto-kicked, I'd do anything ranging from telling them off to banning them.

Yet you don't. Because real, human operators either:

a] Never supervise or are active in the channel (only have scripts to do their job)

or

b] Don't really care.



I'm calling you a troll, in as many words.

How am I trolling? It's called a debate. If you don't want to debate, that's fine. Then don't.

Gah
1st January 2005, 01:31 PM
We relize some Ops/Vops arent exactly.. following the rules they are supposed to be opposing, but you should know this is old and pointless now as the Head's of Gua and a few heads of the Koc chat room and working together to fix things,

MeNoSe
1st January 2005, 01:34 PM
*sighs* Well if you guys won't close it. I'll ask Tau to close and delete it for me.

Advent
1st January 2005, 01:35 PM
We relize some Ops/Vops arent exactly.. following the rules they are supposed to be opposing, but you should know this is old and pointless now as the Head's of Gua and a few heads of the Koc chat room and working together to fix things,

And we're offering ideas on how to fix the problem to make #kingsofchaos enjoyable for everyone.


3


*sighs* Well if you guys won't close it. I'll ask Tau to close and delete it for me.

It's perfectly fine. There's no flaming going on, and we're having an intelligent discussion.

Gah
1st January 2005, 01:40 PM
Ive been tryin to get em to do that for a while Menose

well mars some of you are have a intellegent convo, some are being idiots- who set in Koc chat under hidden names and then once they see something they go running here to post it instead of talking to us about it in the chatroom,

Advent
1st January 2005, 01:41 PM
This thread is allowing everyone to voice their opinion, and to try and offer ideas on how to fix this problem, and to make #kingsofchaos enjoyable for everyone. It's not creating friction.

As long as everyone adheres to the rules, I see no real reason to close it.

Gah, if you see further posts like that, tell me, and I'll try to salvage this thread.

blunderball
1st January 2005, 01:55 PM
Since we are now suggesting ways forward. I believe the idea of a single bot that can handle the scripts is a good one. This would eliminate the use for the Ops who sit on scripts, so to speak (although I believe a lot of that has been eliminated - some of the Ops are among the most active users which you can see for yourself in the new #kingsofchaos stats (http://kocstats.chatchannel.org)). I also feel that the access list is in need of being rebuilt/pruned. There are some Ops/VOps who I feel dont deserve their status (I wont name names for obvious reasons).

And another thing that I have suggested re-vamping is the VOp kicking/banning access. Currently nearly all the voices have access, we are prevented from kicking when AOps/SOps have been active in the past 2 mins - this can pose some problems with spammers/ban dodgers/etc. - and we are constantly being told that if we abuse our kicking ability we will lose our VOp. In my opinion, if you cannot be trusted to not abuse your status, we shouldn't be given the access in the first place. I have proposed to Remco that the people who 'cannot be trusted' to do so should be denied access. I believe this is a fairly simple thing and fairly sensible myself.

Losing some people who can kick/ban wouldn't be a problem since there is often an AOp/SOp around these days and there are few periods when VOp kicking is required anymore. (My proposal was pretty much ignored by Remco)

Hendikins
1st January 2005, 01:55 PM
I'd love the nested quoting to work properly... rawr rawr rawr.


This thread will remain open under the condition no more flaming will occur.

Aww, there goes the fun.



Fair enough. Perhaps they haven't been notified of the actions you've committed. Don't worry, I won't do it, seeing as how you've never ghosted me.


I've done it with several of them present before. The actions are hardly unknown to them.


It's well on-topic.

Politics and religion have nothing to do with Kings Of Chaos.


Fair enough, however there have been instances where several reports came in (with logs), and the only reason nothing was done was because the operator himself said "Those are fake".

Provide an example involving logs submitted by multiple channel operators. I'm interested in seeing it (simply because I wonder who would be involved).


Exactly what I'm asking for.

I'd do it myself, but I'm merely an AOp (and not an overly loved one at that - I'm not in the in crowd, so I'll never be SOp).


And I see 34 people having uOp/vOp/aOp in #kingsofchaos right now. And no sOp online?

Then have a yell at somebody who can do something about it, which unfortunately isn't me.


It shows you didn't employ good ops in the first place.

I don't have casting vote. I'd prune most of the userlist if I did.


And I'm not talking about you. I'm talking about the staff you're in charge of, or you're part of..

Part of. I can and do only speak for myself in this thread.


I've seen an operator kick me after I asked him why a certain individual was banned, after that individual showed me logs of admin abuse.

The operator in question is still on the staff, even though I filed two reports.


I wonder who that could be...


See, this is where hypocrisy kicks in. I can't say "Shit" or "fuck", but I can tell people they should rape small children, or can threaten to kill them.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v514/Mars05/hmm2.bmp

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v514/Mars05/Hmm.bmp

These scripts don't aid at all.


When you can write a 100% accurate AI script, I'm sure we'd look at using it. Until then, this merely reinforces my point that they're an aid, not a substitute for supervision. I thought you were trying to argue with me, not agree with me?


If swearing is illegal, so should death-threats, and telling someone to go and rape young boys.

I would kick or ban over that, if I was active at the time.


The only exaggerated part of my quote was where I talked about the k-lined, and being banned from the internet.

If you can't argue a point without exaggerating, maybe there is a flaw in the point you're trying to argue?


And what was his reason for turning down your proposal?

My mind reading skills are a bit off, so I can't answer that. I wasn't given one.


Huh? Complete elimination equals them not existing? 0 = 0? I don't understand what you're trying to say.

I'm saying that if properly implemented, they serve a purpose. Oh, and yes, complete elimination means them not existing.


Of course not.. However what's better, reforming a user to obey the rules and to respect them? Or to just kick them out of lazyness?

This is what a verbal (rather than official) warning is good for. Saying "You shouldn't do that, it is against the rules (for reasons x/y/z)" before kicking, and a gentle prod to read them.


I'm just pointing out hypocrisies in your (the #kingsofchaos staff) policy.

As I said, I speak only for myself, not for anyone else.



Yet you don't. Because real, human operators either:

a] Never supervise or are active in the channel (only have scripts to do their job)


So prune the ones who are never there and/or only run scripts. I'd start with Denny and a couple of others....



or

b] Don't really care.


I have no real attachment to either the channel or the game, and handle things in a rather business like manner. I wouldn't call it not caring. Again, I don't speak for anyone else.


How am I trolling? It's called a debate. If you don't want to debate, that's fine. Then don't.

Trolling is the difference between a well researched and valid argument, and exaggerating and failing to check up on facts before arguing...

BigPhil
1st January 2005, 02:01 PM
Mars05 This thread is allowing everyone to voice their opinion, and to try and offer ideas on how to fix this problem, and to make #kingsofchaos enjoyable for everyone. It's not creating friction.

You say that this thread is here to offer solution to the problems in #kingsofchaos. Then why on irc.giveupalready.com have you created a #kingsofchaos channel and are going to ask aman to redirect the java users. Doesn't seem like a solution to me?

That to me seems more like making the channel how you want it and not the way everyone wants it?

I agree some changes are needed, and there have been some good ideas shown, and i do hope that they are implemented. But i think there is no need whatsoever for a server change.

Hendikins
1st January 2005, 02:11 PM
You say that this thread is here to offer solution to the problems in #kingsofchaos. Then why on irc.giveupalready.com have you created a #kingsofchaos channel and are going to ask aman to redirect the java users. Doesn't seem like a solution to me?


If it means we don't have the fundamental problems that the current arrangement does, it is a solution of sorts, is it not?


That to me seems more like making the channel how you want it and not the way everyone wants it?

At the moment, Joe User has no real say in operations. Hell, I'm an AOp, and I can't even get things moving.


I agree some changes are needed, and there have been some good ideas shown, and i do hope that they are implemented. But i think there is no need whatsoever for a server change.

In theory, no. In practice, if that's what it takes, then that's what it takes. It gives us a clean slate, and better tools for the ops to do their jobs with. It isn't as simple as just a new server.

Advent
1st January 2005, 02:12 PM
You say that this thread is here to offer solution to the problems in #kingsofchaos. Then why on irc.giveupalready.com have you created a #kingsofchaos channel and are going to ask aman to redirect the java users. Doesn't seem like a solution to me?

That to me seems more like making the channel how you want it and not the way everyone wants it?

I agree some changes are needed, and there have been some good ideas shown, and i do hope that they are implemented. But i think there is no need whatsoever for a server change.


Huh? What channel? Serverchange? o_O


Then have a yell at somebody who can do something about it, which unfortunately isn't me.

Ah, ok, I see the source of the communication problem we are both having. Whenever I say "you", I mean the operators.. Well, most of the time.. Damn the English and their horrible grammar!


When you can write a 100% accurate AI script, I'm sure we'd look at using it. Until then, this merely reinforces my point that they're an aid, not a substitute for supervision. I thought you were trying to argue with me, not agree with me?

In both quotes that were provided, both times the operator did absolutely nothing. Which just goes on to prove my point that simply adding a bunch of scripts and a couple of somewhat incompetent operators will not create an enviroment fit for an 8-year-old.


If you can't argue a point without exaggerating, maybe there is a flaw in the point you're trying to argue?

I said that part about IP Banning off the net for humour purposes. Obviously, I'm not funny. But it does have a point still.


I'm saying that if properly implemented, they serve a purpose

Of course.. But if the operators disallow mild swearing, but do nothing to combat death threats, we've got ourselves a problem.


So prune the ones who are never there and/or only run scripts. I'd start with Denny and a couple of others....

Bingo.


Trolling is the difference between a well researched and valid argument, and exaggerating and failing to check up on facts before arguing...

And so far, you've been able to refute only little of my arguments.

Trolling is what I like to consider edging someone on to flame. If I'm doing that, sorry..


Since we are now suggesting ways forward. I believe the idea of a single bot that can handle the scripts is a good one. This would eliminate the use for the Ops who sit on scripts, so to speak (although I believe a lot of that has been eliminated - some of the Ops are among the most active users which you can see for yourself in the new #kingsofchaos stats). I also feel that the access list is in need of being rebuilt/pruned. There are some Ops/VOps who I feel dont deserve their status (I wont name names for obvious reasons).

And another thing that I have suggested re-vamping is the VOp kicking/banning access. Currently nearly all the voices have access, we are prevented from kicking when AOps/SOps have been active in the past 2 mins - this can pose some problems with spammers/ban dodgers/etc. - and we are constantly being told that if we abuse our kicking ability we will lose our VOp. In my opinion, if you cannot be trusted to not abuse your status, we shouldn't be given the access in the first place. I have proposed to Remco that the people who 'cannot be trusted' to do so should be denied access. I believe this is a fairly simple thing and fairly sensible myself.

Losing some people who can kick/ban wouldn't be a problem since there is often an AOp/SOp around these days and there are few periods when VOp kicking is required anymore. (My proposal was pretty much ignored by Remco)

I agree with it all. In regards to operator activity, there are still many operators who don't say a word and sit on their scripts.

Hendikins
1st January 2005, 02:20 PM
Huh? What channel? Serverchange? o_O

Skunkworks project, I'll prod you with the details...


Ah, ok, I see the source of the communication problem we are both having. Whenever I say "you", I mean the operators.. Well, most of the time.. Damn the English and their horrible grammar!

Heh.


In both quotes that were provided, both times the operator did absolutely nothing. Which just goes on to prove my point that simply adding a bunch of scripts and a couple of somewhat incompetent operators will not create an enviroment fit for an 8-year-old.

I didn't get around to looking at the logs, I merely made the assumption that the content would be unacceptable. Also, does the fact I've indicated a wish for a near-complete purge of the *Op lists indicate a lack of confidence on my part?

I suspect we're actually more in agreement with each other than we'd like to admit...


I said that part about IP Banning off the net for humour purposes. Obviously, I'm not funny. But it does have a point still.

Which is why we've removed an AOp and a couple of VOps recently.


Of course.. But if the operators disallow mild swearing, but do nothing to combat death threats, we've got ourselves a problem.

Then fix or replace the operators.


And so far, you've been able to refute only little of my arguments.

If I consider a point to be valid, why refute it?


Trolling is what I like to consider edging someone on to flame. If I'm doing that, sorry..

Well, my replies could give the appearance of being flames...


I agree with it all. In regards to operator activity, there are still many operators who don't say a word and sit on their scripts.

Purge the lot of 'em, I say.

Advent
1st January 2005, 02:39 PM
Skunkworks project, I'll prod you with the details...

?


I basically agree with all of the other stuff you said. I guess the decision lies with Remco, though, if things really continue the way they do, I can really predict the migration of the KoC population to another channel.


Well, my replies could give the appearance of being flames...

No.


Purge the lot of 'em, I say.

You're right. We do agree more than we'd like to admit.

Hendikins
1st January 2005, 02:41 PM
You're right. We do agree more than we'd like to admit.

That's because I'm being a realist, and I care more about the operating environment than whatever the official line is on things (aka: I have a mind, and I'm not afraid to speak it).

BigPhil
1st January 2005, 02:49 PM
As in regard to operators not being active i think its hard to tell which ones are inactive and which ones just don't feel like chatting and are just supervising.

For example Duffman doesn't talk that much really but i'm pretty sure he keeps an eye on the the channel quite alot and steps in when needed. I think that this is perfectly fine. Unfortunately it is hard to tell if this is the case for other operators


And another thing that I have suggested re-vamping is the VOp kicking/banning access. Currently nearly all the voices have access, we are prevented from kicking when AOps/SOps have been active in the past 2 mins - this can pose some problems with spammers/ban dodgers/etc. - and we are constantly being told that if we abuse our kicking ability we will lose our VOp. In my opinion, if you cannot be trusted to not abuse your status, we shouldn't be given the access in the first place. I have proposed to Remco that the people who 'cannot be trusted' to do so should be denied access. I believe this is a fairly simple thing and fairly sensible myself.

I agree with you there blunderball. The only thing that i think may help would be to lose the 2 minute thing and maybe be able to specify the ban type, that would help in the case of the ban dodging users.

Also maybe more contact with the IRCops who may be able to suggest other ways off dealing with troublesome users.

blunderball
1st January 2005, 02:54 PM
The only thing that i think may help would be to lose the 2 minute thing
I thought that was implied

maybe be able to specify the ban type, that would help in the case of the ban dodging users.
That is a small step away from AOp, I dont see the point myself.

Also maybe more contact with the IRCops who may be able to suggest other ways off dealing with troublesome users.
So you going to prod kiki and Nfs or shall I? :p

BigPhil
1st January 2005, 03:02 PM
So you going to prod kiki and Nfs or shall I?
Your right there, there has been a break down in communication between channel ops and IRCops. How to fix that i have no idea.

Also your comment about specifying a ban type, yes if you could do that you are pretty much an AOP but if everyone was AOP i think the channel would look overpowering to new users.

An idea i just had would be to get aman to add afew more SOP's at the moment the only active SOP's are remco, Gem may return but we don't know about that. I think if there were a few AOP's promoted to SOP then more people could implement changes that we want into the channel. And then they could deal with troublesome users by adding them to the akick lists etc.

Carnage
1st January 2005, 03:16 PM
the #kingsofchaos channel on our network was just a possible solution we are looking at, our network offers far more flexablilty to channel set up then you can have on chatchannel, a bunch of the swearing/masking autokickers can be removed by setting mode +G We also have cthulhu, a network service bot which has configureable kickers for flooding, and other offences that are on the auto kick of the ops.

it was suggested during a discussion between several gua high ups and some of the irc operators at which point, i transfered the founder status to tytrox. If it does happen, everyones access level will be carefully considered.

hopefully the koc admins are going to get involved on this as well and we can get something sorted out.

boriszima
1st January 2005, 04:35 PM
i am glad some work is being done. its never to late to salvage the problem.

just some minor stuff.

Hendikins- you been saying that you often purge lists if aop/vop does not do their job right or behaives right. have you read my post with all the quotes from neosonic aka /dev/null and from jezter ? or they do not fall under the category of being kicked for some various reasons. i mean if the evidende you saw is not enough, then what is ?



*sighs* Well if you guys won't close it. I'll ask Tau to close and delete it for me.

why you want this thread to be closed ? because you know you are guitly as charged and lost the debate ? dont worry, all the hiddent abuse from ops will be uncovered and its too late for you to hide the info.




Ive been tryin to get em to do that for a while Menose

well mars some of you are have a intellegent convo, some are being idiots- who set in Koc chat under hidden names and then once they see something they go running here to post it instead of talking to us about it in the chatroom,

we know, atleast i know who you are calling an "idiot" clone was there with a mission.

yes you are right "once they see something [wrong]..." of course, thats one way to collect the evidence of uncontrollable abuse of people who have control in that room.
for clone its kind of hard to talk there, cuz he was kicked and then baned for "ban dodging"

it would be great to see new room being on GUAnet since thats where the board is and logically the irc room is a good location for it. would be nice to talk to aman, now its a good time.

i read the past 3 pages, and i dont want to intervine with debate between irc ops/vop vs GUA admins/[s]mods but its nice to see its getting somewhere.

Tau
1st January 2005, 06:16 PM
This seems to have gone off the original topic quite a way, via lots of flaming on the way. I've been asked by the thread starter to close it.... so closed.

If a similar topic restarts then keep it on topic, and keep the flaming out of it. If tempers get frayed then go away and calm down... this is only the internet!