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cavalier5
12th May 2011, 01:01 PM
People play roc who cheat and people play who dont cheat (most dont cheat). Most cheaters get banned however in the process some people who dont cheat get unfairly banned (my opinion). Were all humans and its inevitable. My opinion is that the admins who bans someone must tell the person who was banned why they were banned and let them explain themselves. Also a second admin should go over the ban and they think the ban is unjust unban the player. This should keep people who actually cheat banned and those that the admins made a mistake on would hopefully get everything sorted out for the better.

FallenOne
12th May 2011, 01:23 PM
i assume they only ban accounts when they have overwhelming evidence.
ofc they are human too; and at the same time they have to see-through bs lies about bans and honest claims.

anyway i worry some people will start mentioning names and then this thread gets closed. if people want to reply here; hopefully they keep it general.

rouen
12th May 2011, 01:37 PM
This is already done which is why we have the appeal system. Normally when we ban someone all staff read it over since we have a list in game which shares the reason, the evidence and we absolutely discuss all of this amongst ourselves. Again since I have said this numerous times in the past, not every appeal is met with exact information, logs and evidence will NEVER be divulged to the anyone other then staff members and we do not discuss bans with individuals not involved. These are all matters of policy for us and no they will not change.

Now on to addressing the statement in which you say it is your opinion that people have been banned unfairly. Anyone who has been banned has gone through great amounts of scrutiny to gather a great deal of evidence/logs against them, we do not arbitrarily ban people because we THINK they are cheating, we ban them because we KNOW they are cheating. Your opinion is only based on someone telling you they were innocent and not any degree of proof whatsoever.

chaser1
12th May 2011, 01:59 PM
Sorry to say this, but I know some of the people who were banned. The evidence that was shown (what would actually be shown) was sketchy at best and hard to go on as solid evidence. They still arent getting their accounts back and there is now a potential mass exodus of players leaving the game.

Its understandable, to me, that some players join the game, get excited and have a buddy make an account while showing them the game. Only for both to get banned because it was the same IP. Worse yet, that buddy didn't really find the game that exciting and never logged in again, but the buddy who showed the game was very much into it, only to get banned over what is seemingly concrete evidence, but isnt.

Second case is a couple who have two shitty laptops log in from their local public library. One's computer craps out so they log in from the SAME laptop. Making it seem like they are sharing account information. Even though both have informed admins that they share an IP. Kinda harsh. This instance is more believable of cheating but I knew these two and they didnt. They arent rich and actually do have crap machines.

Some people dont even know to inform the admins. I have, in the past, when I played KOC, informed admins that I was sharing an IP with a roommate, only to get banned by a mod. And find that it took the admin 3 months to review my appeal. By then, I lost complete interest. But that was KoC, not RoC. In the past, RoC has also done this. I am quite happy with the new admin setup here, but these bannings are rather harsh and very very disheartening for players who enjoy the game and aren't paying attention to who is logging in to what from where.

Alot of times I play from my workplace, which is a network of over 100 machines. Chances are, no one else will discover RoC, but if they do, then we are both screwed if this is based on that alone. Yet, evidence isn't revealed to show anything more than the above. So... why play a game that there is a increased chance that I would be banned over a small detail that is vague?

Gambino
12th May 2011, 02:11 PM
Sorry to say this, but I know some of the people who were banned. The evidence that was shown (what would actually be shown) was sketchy at best and hard to go on as solid evidence. They still arent getting their accounts back and there is now a potential mass exodus of players leaving the game.

Its understandable, to me, that some players join the game, get excited and have a buddy make an account while showing them the game. Only for both to get banned because it was the same IP. Worse yet, that buddy didn't really find the game that exciting and never logged in again, but the buddy who showed the game was very much into it, only to get banned over what is seemingly concrete evidence, but isnt.

Second case is a couple who have two shitty laptops log in from their local public library. One's computer craps out so they log in from the SAME laptop. Making it seem like they are sharing account information. Even though both have informed admins that they share an IP. Kinda harsh. This instance is more believable of cheating but I knew these two and they didnt. They arent rich and actually do have crap machines.

Some people dont even know to inform the admins. I have, in the past, when I played KOC, informed admins that I was sharing an IP with a roommate, only to get banned by a mod. And find that it took the admin 3 months to review my appeal. By then, I lost complete interest. But that was KoC, not RoC. In the past, RoC has also done this. I am quite happy with the new admin setup here, but these bannings are rather harsh and very very disheartening for players who enjoy the game and aren't paying attention to who is logging in to what from where.

Alot of times I play from my workplace, which is a network of over 100 machines. Chances are, no one else will discover RoC, but if they do, then we are both screwed if this is based on that alone. Yet, evidence isn't revealed to show anything more than the above. So... why play a game that there is a increased chance that I would be banned over a small detail that is vague?

I don't know how many times to say this... IP matches don't mean nothing. It takes much more than an IP match. I just looked at a player who matched 14 IP addresses, and he's not banned and probably won't be. So tired of hearing the same thing "But we made an account at the same time" or "My friend came over to make an account" or "I play at the college library" blah blah blah. Doesn't matter. IPs matches are pointless by themselves.

This is already done which is why we have the appeal system. Normally when we ban someone all staff read it over since we have a list in game which shares the reason, the evidence and we absolutely discuss all of this amongst ourselves. Again since I have said this numerous times in the past, not every appeal is met with exact information, logs and evidence will NEVER be divulged to the anyone other then staff members and we do not discuss bans with individuals not involved. These are all matters of policy for us and no they will not change.

Now on to addressing the statement in which you say it is your opinion that people have been banned unfairly. Anyone who has been banned has gone through great amounts of scrutiny to gather a great deal of evidence/logs against them, we do not arbitrarily ban people because we THINK they are cheating, we ban them because we KNOW they are cheating. Your opinion is only based on someone telling you they were innocent and not any degree of proof whatsoever.


What he said ^

Cheater: Why do you think I cheated?
Staff:
"I hacked your web-cam and watched you sign into two accounts."
"Everyone who registers gets a secret key-logger on their pc that informs us of your actions."
"Admins make all the auto-buyers and auto-clickers, so we know you have ours."

Obviously, these are all false (or are they...), but if a cheater learned this and wanted to get around this, they'd make their own auto-clicker, put a sock over their web cam, and... I don't know, buy anti-key loggers or something. Bottom line, the evidence collected can be used against us, teaching the scum sucker how we catch them.

To keep RoC as honest as possible, we refuse to give proof to the cheater that will aid him/her in their next attempts.

Anyway, back to monitoring all these web cams...

rouen
12th May 2011, 02:19 PM
Sorry to say this, but I know some of the people who were banned. The evidence that was shown (what would actually be shown) was sketchy at best and hard to go on as solid evidence. They still arent getting their accounts back and there is now a potential mass exodus of players leaving the game.

Its understandable, to me, that some players join the game, get excited and have a buddy make an account while showing them the game. Only for both to get banned because it was the same IP. Worse yet, that buddy didn't really find the game that exciting and never logged in again, but the buddy who showed the game was very much into it, only to get banned over what is seemingly concrete evidence, but isnt.

Second case is a couple who have two shitty laptops log in from their local public library. One's computer craps out so they log in from the SAME laptop. Making it seem like they are sharing account information. Even though both have informed admins that they share an IP. Kinda harsh. This instance is more believable of cheating but I knew these two and they didnt. They arent rich and actually do have crap machines.

Some people dont even know to inform the admins. I have, in the past, when I played KOC, informed admins that I was sharing an IP with a roommate, only to get banned by a mod. And find that it took the admin 3 months to review my appeal. By then, I lost complete interest. But that was KoC, not RoC. In the past, RoC has also done this. I am quite happy with the new admin setup here, but these bannings are rather harsh and very very disheartening for players who enjoy the game and aren't paying attention to who is logging in to what from where.

Alot of times I play from my workplace, which is a network of over 100 machines. Chances are, no one else will discover RoC, but if they do, then we are both screwed if this is based on that alone. Yet, evidence isn't revealed to show anything more than the above. So... why play a game that there is a increased chance that I would be banned over a small detail that is vague?

Again, you are falling into the cavalier syndrome, "I know they didnt do it they are my friends!!". We dont ban simply because someone shared an IP address. We ban when there is enough evidence to support the action and proof that someone has broken the game rules. If IP sharing was going to be an issue we would have outlawed the use of anyone sharing an IP address other then mobile IPs. Obviously this is not the case and despite recent belief (a couple of posts in this thread) we are able to tell the difference between sharing an IP and cheating.

I will not address the specific situations you have outlined above for the same reasons I stated in my previous post.

chaser1
12th May 2011, 02:30 PM
Then im sorry, I lose too much faith in this game. I want to believe that this isn't the case and I'd like to thank those who invited me and gave me a chance to play, but there is too much risk in wasting alot of time on a game that I could do so much with and lose it all on a vague decision. Prove me wrong otherwise but the decisions are based of vague evidence. I was not banned, but I saw too many people who were. One remade and learned to ask an admin and think before allowing someone to create an account or log into their own from their location.

The second group... they didn't have a choice. They are a couple and share a pc. Whether or not they shared log in information, I dont know, but its kinda hard not to know each others log in information if you are practically married. My wife knows my login to my bank account (I wish she didnt).

The bad part of this was, before you guys were admins, there was a rash of corrupt ones, that cause the group of us to simply leave. Even the ones who were NOT banned. I discovered that you guys were the new ones and much much more fair and unbiased. I agree, you guys are much much more unbiased and fair. However, one banning... (okay maybe they did cheat or its just a scenario). Two bannings... k... odd. Especially when there are only 24 of us. 4 Bannings? WTF is going on here? I know those people. BUT... you probably hear that a lot also.


Word is spreading fast and as a favor to a dear friend of mine who convinced me to play, I would try and keep them calm and get to the bottom of it. I simply can't. The TCL alliance is calling foul play and that this is a repeat of the events of age 0 and age 1. Where half of the alliance was banned for trumped up reasons. Here is an example of one of them: http://www.giveupalready.com/showthread.php?67500-Banned-Huh&highlight=

I guess the situation is this: They dont believe me when I say, "Hey, there is a logical explanation. We can appeal and plead the case. They seem like reasonable people now." Their reply is, "This is complete bullshit. We knew this was going to happen. It happened last time. They have solid proof? F'ing prove it!" I can't answer that.

So please trust me when I say, "I want to believe the admins. I trust shiggity and rouen. I don't know the other two." So, I think something needs to be said or done to restore faith and not by me. By the way, whatever happened to suspensions?
********************
Oddly enough... the old thread looks strikingly similar.

Shiggity
12th May 2011, 02:50 PM
First of all, it really sucks to have to ban players. No one - least of all admins and mods - want to see the game's player base shrink. We would rather have lots of members who are enjoying a really great gaming experience - even in spite of some meaniebutts...you know who you are!! ;)

However, the remaining question has always been :: do we want to allow people to play unfairly just to keep the player count up? We made the decision as a team that, no, we would rather have a small but clean game than a large one dominated by people who don't play by the rules.

It is true that some people make mistakes simply because they don't bother to read the rules. As game leaders, we can't really help that. However, you who are commanders and alliance leaders could be proactive and make a point to tell your players, especially the new ones, how important it is to read and understand the game rules. They really are very clear.

I think you would all be rather surprised to know just how many current players share an IP and/or a computer now. Same IP/Computer are NOT the only bases for a ban. You would also be surprised to know how many times ban appeals are successful. There are also some of you who have advocated very eloquently on behalf of someone who was banned - only to have that person bite you in the butt when they got unbanned and just went straight back to their cheating ways. My point is it's not all cut and dried. A lot of energy is expended by people trying to gain an unfair advantage in the game - and a lot of energy is expended trying to catch them.

It also seems that a common issue is that apparently we ban people ONLY for playing on the same IP or ONLY for playing on the same computer as their <insert relationship here>. Some have even said those two reasons are instant bans. (wrong.) But as others have stated already, giving away all our ninja secrets for how we catch people who are cheating is not going to happen. It's hard enough trying to keep the playing field even without having the bad guys know what they have to work around.

Oh, and, it seems to me that if you don't cheat and you play the game fairly, but you know people who cheat and just remain silent about it, then you need to turn in your I Play Fair Card.

chaser1
12th May 2011, 03:01 PM
Thanks shiggity, good post. The only bad part is not being able to know what evidence there was. Brings up too many questions.

Mystique
12th May 2011, 03:50 PM
First of all, it really sucks to have to ban players. No one - least of all admins and mods - want to see the game's player base shrink. We would rather have lots of members who are enjoying a really great gaming experience - even in spite of some meaniebutts...you know who you are!! ;)

However, the remaining question has always been :: do we want to allow people to play unfairly just to keep the player count up? We made the decision as a team that, no, we would rather have a small but clean game than a large one dominated by people who don't play by the rules.

It is true that some people make mistakes simply because they don't bother to read the rules. As game leaders, we can't really help that. However, you who are commanders and alliance leaders could be proactive and make a point to tell your players, especially the new ones, how important it is to read and understand the game rules. They really are very clear.

I think you would all be rather surprised to know just how many current players share an IP and/or a computer now. Same IP/Computer are NOT the only bases for a ban. You would also be surprised to know how many times ban appeals are successful. There are also some of you who have advocated very eloquently on behalf of someone who was banned - only to have that person bite you in the butt when they got unbanned and just went straight back to their cheating ways. My point is it's not all cut and dried. A lot of energy is expended by people trying to gain an unfair advantage in the game - and a lot of energy is expended trying to catch them.

It also seems that a common issue is that apparently we ban people ONLY for playing on the same IP or ONLY for playing on the same computer as their <insert relationship here>. Some have even said those two reasons are instant bans. (wrong.) But as others have stated already, giving away all our ninja secrets for how we catch people who are cheating is not going to happen. It's hard enough trying to keep the playing field even without having the bad guys know what they have to work around.

Oh, and, it seems to me that if you don't cheat and you play the game fairly, but you know people who cheat and just remain silent about it, then you need to turn in your I Play Fair Card.


this is manson-mage ..... shiggity you have a good point there .. but there is a instince that a couple gets banned .. for really no apairent reason .. and follows all the rules .. no clicks sent to each other .. no attacks .. hell not even a sab .. it says that couple can recon and sab each .. so i have sent an appeal .. all ya who know me knows i can't spell and sometimes dont always get across what i am tryin to get across ... now we have 2 friends that are admins .. we have friends across the ruins universe .. including in ac .. clans war each other , ty attack probe and sab the hell outta each other .. but for a couple to get banned ... one is in war and the has her own chain and is a refuge for players who dont like to war ... .. they have completely different play styles .. it would be hard for one to play the other style .. not their thing to do ... but please for some of us ( in the ruins universe ) who get banned and are known by everyone not to cheat ... please let them have the info and ect... to explain things and properly defend themselves

chaser1
12th May 2011, 03:58 PM
Well manson, if you don't get it back, then remake and we can try and help you rebuild, if you will. Dunno what else we can do.

rouen
12th May 2011, 04:03 PM
For those interested in the continuing saga of manson and mystique (film-milf), they have since admitted to what happened (outside of gua) and see the above post as to further information with regard to that situation.

Chaser after all of that I don't think I need to say anything else on that particular matter.

chaser1
12th May 2011, 04:17 PM
huh?

OutlawDragon
12th May 2011, 04:22 PM
First I would like to say that I trust the mods/admins when they say that someone is cheating. If they say your cheating then almost all of the time you where. There is a VERY simple way not to get banned. Don't Cheat. It's not that hard. Who cares about a small online text-based game enough to spend all that time trying to cheat anyway? What's the point?

I also agree that it would be VERY VERY VERY stupid for the admins to share the evidence with the people they ban because then they would be able to cheat better the next time. Hey, the admins aren't perfect but they get it right as much as it is humanly possible.

Also... we might need to get RoC's newest doctor, Dr. Truci, in on curing this cavalier syndrome its sounds very dangerous and contagious.

Mystique
12th May 2011, 04:33 PM
for one outlaw weve played roc since it began..weve gtten new players and have gone thru alot several times..yes at one oint my husband gave me a birthday present ..duh he sold off to me ..lol it was wrong and never done again..he was just trying to give me a selloff for my birthday and neither of us gave a second thought at the moment unil we were banned..thru alota talking to the older admins at that time we got it settled and neer did anything like that again..this matter of cheating theres alot we know of and some very suspcious and weve known several to login on their friends acct and dump their gold..i dont c a prob there as long as it wasnt anything further..but since we have 1 workable comp and ips r floating we have to use mine.im now disabled and on social security i cant afford like alot of ppl and go buy a new comp for my husband..hell i cant afford to even pay my bills atm..Roeun u know us weve talked to you about alotta probs but i dont understand wat ur saying..further more i dont understand the banning..where it all came from ..and if we did somethingwrong and didnt know it or realize it how can we not make the same mistake again if u dont tell us??? if you punish a child or an animal or arrest someone or fire someone theres gotta b a reason or they dont know not to do it again..yes some cases they know exactly what they did and go back to it but we dot cheat we dont know whats going on and this is the first ive said anything about the situation since its taken place..i havent written my appeal yet ive been too upset..i enjoy roc nd if i did something wrong i need to know if its even told to me separately from here which would b practical and shiggity knows ow to get me on msn so please ....

rouen
12th May 2011, 04:41 PM
for one outlaw weve played roc since it began..weve gtten new players and have gone thru alot several times..yes at one oint my husband gave me a birthday present ..duh he sold off to me ..lol it was wrong and never done again..he was just trying to give me a selloff for my birthday and neither of us gave a second thought at the moment unil we were banned..thru alota talking to the older admins at that time we got it settled and neer did anything like that again..this matter of cheating theres alot we know of and some very suspcious and weve known several to login on their friends acct and dump their gold..i dont c a prob there as long as it wasnt anything further..but since we have 1 workable comp and ips r floating we have to use mine.im now disabled and on social security i cant afford like alot of ppl and go buy a new comp for my husband..hell i cant afford to even pay my bills atm..Roeun u know us weve talked to you about alotta probs but i dont understand wat ur saying..further more i dont understand the banning..where it all came from ..and if we did somethingwrong and didnt know it or realize it how can we not make the same mistake again if u dont tell us??? if you punish a child or an animal or arrest someone or fire someone theres gotta b a reason or they dont know not to do it again..yes some cases they know exactly what they did and go back to it but we dot cheat we dont know whats going on and this is the first ive said anything about the situation since its taken place..i havent written my appeal yet ive been too upset..i enjoy roc nd if i did something wrong i need to know if its even told to me separately from here which would b practical and shiggity knows ow to get me on msn so please ....

Write your appeal in the appeal box and I will be glad to tell you what you did. I won't post it here as I said I wouldn't earlier. Reading your previous post I think people probably have a good idea of what happened though.

andyt683
12th May 2011, 05:17 PM
The bad part of this was, before you guys were admins, there was a rash of corrupt ones, that cause the group of us to simply leave. Even the ones who were NOT banned. I discovered that you guys were the new ones and much much more fair and unbiased. I agree, you guys are much much more unbiased and fair. However, one banning... (okay maybe they did cheat or its just a scenario). Two bannings... k... odd. Especially when there are only 24 of us. 4 Bannings? WTF is going on here? I know those people. BUT... you probably hear that a lot also.

Biased was one charge never leveled at me (probably because I didn't bother to look at the name before banning), and I was rouen's immediate predecessor. Prior to myself were venge and fury, about 2 years ago.

There's a real fixation on the "same IP" reasoning for banning, mostly because it's quite public that it factors into a banning decision (and the other factors are reasonably obscured so people don't catch on). The problem is, I actually yelled at mods for banning simply on the "same IP" reasoning in the past, and I doubt things could have changed that much in the past couple months. The burden of proof is on the banning mod, and all the other mods/admins taking complaints about an "unjust" ban are going to fact-check themselves as well. It's not a process that can be gamed by one biased mod, and it's not a one-factor decision. It's human nature to believe the best of your friends, but the system was in place for 2 years now, and works rather well.

This post will be forgotten by the time the situation happens again (next week).

t0msky
12th May 2011, 05:53 PM
i will always have a pop at the mods given a chance.
but when it comes to banning, i havent found any issue to have a go at them.
if they banned simply for 2 users one ip i would already be banned, my account probably has a lot of ips over it, when i go from office to home to another office or to my workshop all have different ips, then of course theres my mobile ip.
i know i share ips with a couple of roc users one for definate, there are a lot more factors the admins take into account in regards cheating, my only complaint is they are too lax in banning, i have spoken with rouen many times regarding this and i wont go into specifics but i have shown what i believe a propensity of evidence to show something isnt "right" with a player and still he hasnt banned for it.
whilst i disagree with this because this isnt a court of law and propensity should be enough he still wont ban until he has what he believes irrefutable proof is provided.
i totally believe if they have banned, then they have the proof to back it up

Anteraz
12th May 2011, 08:29 PM
I can count 29 ip addresses i log inn from not including my phone.

M3J
12th May 2011, 08:31 PM
People play roc who cheat and people play who dont cheat (most dont cheat). Most cheaters get banned however in the process some people who dont cheat get unfairly banned (my opinion). Were all humans and its inevitable. My opinion is that the admins who bans someone must tell the person who was banned why they were banned and let them explain themselves. Also a second admin should go over the ban and they think the ban is unjust unban the player. This should keep people who actually cheat banned and those that the admins made a mistake on would hopefully get everything sorted out for the better.

The problem with having people explain why they did what they did is that they can lie to get out of the ban and come up with any excuses to look innocent. Of course, there will be innocent people too that deserve to explain what happened, but the cheaters also take advantage of this. Besides, I think anyone banned is free to explain himself on IRC or ingame or even here but in private. The problem is, almost everyone that gets in trouble posts in public and complains about it, says they weren't cheating and behaves badly. NOt exactly the best way to prove your innocence....

And, admins and mods all discuss with each other about banning an account, suspending it, or restricting it. None of them makes a decision on their own, it's always in a committee (points to anyone who gets the reference other than Minato). If the staff was biased, Gamby would have banned ES and VS by now. Staff never makes sole decisions on anything, and even if they do, enough bitching solves the problem. Just ask fury or andy when either decided to change the captcha thingie. :>

andyt683
13th May 2011, 05:51 AM
Staff never makes sole decisions on anything, and even if they do, enough bitching solves the problem. Just ask fury or andy when either decided to change the captcha thingie. :>

Strangely, everyone assumed the decisions I made with input from others were me acting unilaterally, and vice versa. The CAPTCHAs were done because people presented us with working autoclickers and such, and we would simply decompile them and take a look under the hood, and break that specific OCR. Off topic, when you make something like that, size matters a LOT, and we were unaware of how much 1-2KB mattered. There were a lot of times when I'd do something, and the next day I'd hear a fantastic (but horribly wrong) story about what I did yesterday.

I'd also like to clarify: enough bitching from the right people solves the problem. There are a few people running around that complain about everything, so I know I tuned them right out. Someone normally good-natured like M3J would get listened to. I also had a soft spot for people that put preparation into their arguments, with graphs, user access logs, and other stuff ready to go when I asked. If you do your due diligence, and present a well-reasoned, good-natured case, things go a lot smoother. I actually gave several people the benefit of the doubt simply because their case was persuasive, and they proved they could be an asset to the community.

chaser1
13th May 2011, 07:08 AM
Strangely, everyone assumed the decisions I made with input from others were me acting unilaterally, and vice versa. The CAPTCHAs were done because people presented us with working autoclickers and such, and we would simply decompile them and take a look under the hood, and break that specific OCR. Off topic, when you make something like that, size matters a LOT, and we were unaware of how much 1-2KB mattered. There were a lot of times when I'd do something, and the next day I'd hear a fantastic (but horribly wrong) story about what I did yesterday.

I'd also like to clarify: enough bitching from the right people solves the problem. There are a few people running around that complain about everything, so I know I tuned them right out. Someone normally good-natured like M3J would get listened to. I also had a soft spot for people that put preparation into their arguments, with graphs, user access logs, and other stuff ready to go when I asked. If you do your due diligence, and present a well-reasoned, good-natured case, things go a lot smoother. I actually gave several people the benefit of the doubt simply because their case was persuasive, and they proved they could be an asset to the community.

Kinda like thepalandrome case was handled? Cus back then you guys sure did a bang up job. The game lost an entire alliance over the amazing speed of the mods to fix it. And if that fiasco is Any indication of your ability to spot bullshit, then maybe its better if people do get banned. And whoever drop neg rep on me, stating that Im a cheater, check again. I'm not banned and never have been from this game, which completely surprises me considering that last banning spree on TCL members was done out of nerdraging from one of the mods.

Mystique
13th May 2011, 10:26 AM
its not always so that ppl that come here to maybe complain ts not fair youve been banned..i know ofprob half the ppl in roc have their wives husbands kids nieces etc bank their gold and thats it ...ive even been told several times but past mods nd new ones its ok as long as u dont sell off etc which we already learned our lesson on that one yrs back...ive gone thru harassing by our beloved potalot and his calling me every name in the book got him banned for only 3 days????? ive been harassed by others but just ignore most of it mitch being anothr one..but they still get to play..countless time potalot went under other names just to come back to me for some od reason and then turn around and start in..by that time he kne not to do it in game but on msn where i had to block him.it tok ages to get this guy completely banned at least as far as i know nless he changed his email and playing again but only to get banned for a couple of days which isnt cool..h hates females and will harass all of us at one point or another...like chaser1 said we all no each others accts whether here or koc or bank accts if you have een with each other for any length of time whether good or bad..if the admins knew that over half the players have family dump there gold thered b no roc..im not givingup names cuz thats not fair but ur told by one mod its ok another says no u never no what to do and with one comp its even harder..the misunderstanding of duming gold for ur partner or family is a lil harsh and if thats the case of 1 time making a mistake thas pretty harsh to ban completely from the game..weve been with and gone thru alot with roc since the beginning ive know fury and talked to him personally several times in the past as well as cwc and others..all we want is to b able to play again and b with our friends.and this isnt bitchin i guess its more like pleading so i hope rouen you reconsider our case along with shiggity and the others youve known us for a long time and even tho u may not believe this i dont cheat and hate cheaters which boils me when i c someone doing it in roc or anything else ..so if my words didnt come out right or whatever we didnt do anything wrong and just want back in roc its the best and i take it over koc any day

Carnage
13th May 2011, 11:14 AM
Just to point out something here:

I don't ban accounts.

I don't unban accounts.

I develop code.

I am considering putting some of foe's anti cheat systems into roc, however roc's systems are already quite good so i'm not sure if its worth the effort.

Shiggity
13th May 2011, 11:33 AM
i know ofprob half the ppl in roc have their wives husbands kids nieces etc bank their gold and thats it ...ive even been told several times but past mods nd new ones its ok as long as u dont sell off etc which we already learned our lesson on that one yrs back..

Really, this is definitely not the place for appealing your ban; in fact, it is really, really the wrong place, and it will not be addressed here.

What I will address is what you've said regarding being told by mods it's ok to bank someone else's gold. That is totally wrong, and I would be shocked if any past or current mod said it was ok. Hopefully, I misread what you were saying - but if not, I have to point out that banking another's account is a bannable offense. Period. And players do not get to set the punishment for breaking the rules nor do they get to decide which rules are "important" enough to get banned for if they break them. Please note that whatever may have been said/heard/suggested/intimated/made-up-for-effect/lied about in the past...the current rules are clearly posted, and those are what players should pay attention to now.

Also, I think we have a pretty good track record of dealing with harassment - IF WE KNOW ABOUT IT. While we all do have special ninjaskillz, reading minds is a skill we admins/mods are all still working on. So if someone is being harassed, and it isn't reported, then naturally it won't be dealt with satisfactorily.

chaser1
13th May 2011, 11:39 AM
Mystique, players who are roommates or romantically involved with each other may know each others log in details. Your above post... You understand that doing so is STILL illegal. Im hoping that that is not the case. Your above post brings my name into the argument, but what I was saying before is that they KNOW each others login details, but I do not condone actually doing it.

In Nathan's case, nothing is really concrete and we honestly don't see how he got banned on SOLID evidence. His situation is somewhat special in that its the excuse that half the banned players actually use. Making it hard to prove him innocent or guilty. The fact that jack never relogged into his account because the game looked stupid made it even more suspicious. The fact that I noticed that Nathan was banned before Nathan did and confronted the mods and gave the wrong officer name (since I didnt know about jack and failed to check for vorock beforehand) made it look that much worse on Nathan before he even had a chance to defend himself. So yes, its a bad situation and he got pretty badly screwed by none other than his own commander. But the main issue with Nathan and lesson learned is: "Never let anyone log in from your IP without informing an admin beforehand." He has since remade his account and given up on the idea of getting the other one back. he didnt want to wait that long since his old one wasnt worth more than 2bn.

Number1Prospect
13th May 2011, 05:26 PM
What about when one mod tells someone they can't find evidence for the person in question being banned, and yet the account stays banned?

If the account is looked at by all mods, and one can't find evidence, that would mean immediate unbanning, would it not?

rouen
13th May 2011, 06:40 PM
Just to point out something here:

I don't ban accounts.

I don't unban accounts.

I develop code.

I am considering putting some of foe's anti cheat systems into roc, however roc's systems are already quite good so i'm not sure if its worth the effort.


What about when one mod tells someone they can't find evidence for the person in question being banned, and yet the account stays banned?

If the account is looked at by all mods, and one can't find evidence, that would mean immediate unbanning, would it not?

I have nothing else to add to this. He has said this time and again so I don't understand why it needs to be repeated over and over.

And the reason he couldn't find the evidence on the ban you are speaking of is because he literally couldn't find the evidence. The evidence wasn't in the "standard" evidence box so it was not readily available without him speaking to one of the other staff members that DO handle the bans (everyone else).


:starwars:

delapidated pig
14th May 2011, 12:42 PM
just wanted to make one quick comment,

i normally stay out of this stuff because to me it seems so pointless...

however, i dont believe for a second that any admin or mod or w/e, has ever said that logging into someone elses account is ok for any reason at all. and i would challenge u (mystique) to show logs to prove something like that (altho, i know logs can be faked as well..). I know for myself, that i have had long talks with rouen clarifying the "same-ip" situation. My brother and i share IP's and it would be devastating to our alliance if him or i got banned, so i made sure that i knew the rules clearly before this age started.

and i could provide logs of rouen explaining to me very cleary what the rules are on this situation.

While, there are many people in this game that i honestly believe have figured out a way to cheat, I can be equally as honest in saying that i also believe that the admins haven't banned them yet because they simply haven't figured out how to catch them (with sufficient proof) yet. I hope that at some point those people make a mistake and are punished for it, but in the mean time i can do nothing but trust the admins.

someone else said earlier in this thread ( i think OD), that the easiest way to not get banned is to not cheat. AMEN bro. I have never been banned, and i honestly have never worried about being banned. (of course, i can barely figure out mIRC much less cheating rofl)