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powdered_donuts
25th March 2010, 12:21 AM
Welp, I've had some fun this age, but now it's time to see just how fast the most effective chain out there can destroy my account.

2 hours ago TheGodFather_LaCN 20000
1 day ago TheGodFather_LaCN 20000
2 days ago TheGodFather_LaCN 20000

Yep, that's 60k morale I've sent to TGF in no more than 3 days time. I was told just today his price went up ot 85m per k. Three days ago the deal was 160k morale for 9.4b gold.

So i messaged Spiderwoman when I heard this news and exclaimed that I was getting screwed in this ordeal. I messaged Orb and Red telling them the same. So I asked for my 60k morale back which I did not get. I asked for my sell, but Orb was busy and Spiderwoman, his secretary chose not to take care of it. I asked Red, in which she replied I was being disrespectful to LaCN. Red was right, I was most definately upset with LaCN.

A decision was to be made, do I take the sell at 60m per k? Can't, he left, plus I got booted from the LaCN channel. Do I take my morale back? Can't, he won't send it back. I'm not going to use wisdom or patience here, it's time to fight.

Every age someone gets f'd in the A by LaCN, this age it happened to be me.

I wanna see how fast a chain like that destroys an account like myne, and instead of showing my damages on LaCN will be showing damages from LaCN to me for fun.

Strike Action 2,801,988,382 Ranked #123
Defensive Action 7,878,413,781 Ranked #33
Spy Rating 44,337,959,436 Ranked #17
Sentry Rating 105,544,866,232 Ranked #21

And remember I do expect those stats to drop rather quickly, no holding back, you just got 60k free morale, rub it in LaCN, rub it in good.

chaser1
25th March 2010, 12:24 AM
LoL dano. What are you doing? You could have got ahold of me and I could have gotten something done for you.

chrisl7605
25th March 2010, 12:25 AM
seems like this is the second unfair move by lacn ontop of the skorpz approval :/

chaser1
25th March 2010, 12:42 AM
I think this one can be fixed. I think its a misunderstanding.

capkop
25th March 2010, 01:31 AM
Not sure what's unfair about this. If you go to the mall and buy a T-shirt for 40 euros, then go there again next week and see there's a sale and your shirt now only costs 10 euros, then you dont go beserk on the salesman either. Its just bad luck. Same can be said for your case. You made a deal, then some days later it would have been more profitable for you to make that deal, but that doesn't matter.

Blipje
25th March 2010, 01:36 AM
I sold 10k morale to Bogdanel-NGF just two weeks ago. Agreed price was 300 Mil.

Should I open a new topic about it and leave chain?

Dragon_Orb
25th March 2010, 01:43 AM
EDIT: I edited a certain word to firetruck, sure you can figure it out. Any words in < > were also edited, they were previously swear words.

Full Details:
The deal i had arranged with Powdered_Donuts was for 160k morale, 9.4bn gold. That was the price at the time and he was happy to make the deal. Then when i raised my price he came complaining.

Even though the deal had been made and i didn't have to offer <anything>, i offered to give him 10.6bn gold, 1.2bn (13%) extra! But no, not good enough. Mind you at the time my brother had shown up so i had been making him wait while i talked. After making my brother wait 10 minutes i had enough and literally told Powdered_Donuts to get <firetrucked>.

My IRC convo with Powdered_Donuts (before he started massing):

Admittedly i wasn't the nicest i've ever been (infact i was rather rude :p) but i'm tired of people who make deals and then PM me the instant the price goes up demanding they get the new price. Morale deals have never worked that way, everyone has been on the receiving end of it, you're not special, get over it.


Session Start: Thu Mar 25 16:06:46 2010
Session Ident: powderedonuts
[16:06] Session Ident: powderedonuts (Cyanide-x, Dragon_Orb|buys_morale) (48fa8b20@Cyanide-a9ec08aa.mibbit.com)
[16:06] <powderedonuts> hey
[16:06] powderedonuts is 48fa8b20@Cyanide-a9ec08aa.mibbit.com * 72.250.139.32
[16:06] powderedonuts on #kingsofchaos #cosanostra +#[tS]
[16:06] powderedonuts using surrender.cyanide-x.net Cyanide-x's french leaf
[16:06] powderedonuts is a registered nick
[16:06] powderedonuts End of /WHOIS list.
[16:08] <Dragon_Orb|buys_morale> fine
[16:08] <Dragon_Orb|buys_morale> my brother just got here
[16:08] <Dragon_Orb|buys_morale> but i'll take time out of my real life just to deal with this crap
[16:09] <Dragon_Orb|buys_morale> you AGREED to 9.6bn
[16:09] <Dragon_Orb|buys_morale> 9.4
[16:09] <Dragon_Orb|buys_morale> i've offered 10.6bn
[16:09] <powderedonuts> your scrwein me over here
[16:09] <Dragon_Orb|buys_morale> 1.2bn more than you AGREED to
[16:09] <Dragon_Orb|buys_morale> what's wrong with 10.6?
[16:09] <Dragon_Orb|buys_morale> it's 1.2bn more than you agreed to in the first place
[16:10] <powderedonuts> what's wrong with it? your paying others 85m perk for a deal like this when you only raised it because of what chaser1 said to lspiderwoman and he only said it to her cuz i showed him the messages between me and kab
[16:10] <Dragon_Orb|buys_morale> huh?
[16:12] <Dragon_Orb|buys_morale> you know how morale deals work
[16:12] <Dragon_Orb|buys_morale> i've been screwed over in the past
[16:12] <Dragon_Orb|buys_morale> when i was selling
[16:12] <Dragon_Orb|buys_morale> cause prices go up after i've made a deal
[16:12] <powderedonuts> <powderedonuts>: you hired the price because of what chaser1 told you right? <powderedonuts>: and he talked to you because I talked to him <Spiderwoman_LaCN>: yes
[16:13] <Dragon_Orb|buys_morale> i decided that special deal price on my own, without anyone telling me anything
[16:13] <powderedonuts> bull
[16:13] <powderedonuts> i want my morale back
[16:17] <Dragon_Orb|buys_morale> you'll get the gold for what you've sent if you're BREAKING the DEAL YOU AGREED TO
[16:17] <Dragon_Orb|buys_morale> that's it
[16:18] <powderedonuts> you <firetruck>
[16:18] <Dragon_Orb|buys_morale> I am away: "Gone out - See Spiderwoman_LaCN about morale deals: Words Games: "Kitten?" "Blender"" Left at 16:15 GMT +10 (2mins).
[16:18] <Dragon_Orb|buys_morale> i was generous and offered an extra 13% on top of what you AGREED to
[16:19] <Dragon_Orb|buys_morale> i didn't have to offer anything extra as you had agreed with that deal and you were happy for it
[16:19] <Dragon_Orb|buys_morale> but i did offer extra
[16:19] <Dragon_Orb|buys_morale> 13% extra
[16:19] <powderedonuts> i'm going to start sending morale like mad to kab for free you assholoe
[16:20] <Dragon_Orb|buys_morale> <firetruck> you, i'm not dealing with your lame shit, i've made my brother wait 10mins already so go get stuffed
[16:20] * Dragon_Orb|buys_morale gone
Session Close: Thu Mar 25 17:34:04 2010

powdered_donuts
25th March 2010, 02:27 AM
Not sure what's unfair about this. If you go to the mall and buy a T-shirt for 40 euros, then go there again next week and see there's a sale and your shirt now only costs 10 euros, then you dont go beserk on the salesman either. Its just bad luck. Same can be said for your case. You made a deal, then some days later it would have been more profitable for you to make that deal, but that doesn't matter.

The unfair part is that morale just went up to 85m per k today, and I was still supposed to send 100k morale after that still at low price. The main thing was I wanted my morale back, he won't send it, so now I fight.

The deal that should have been incorporated that I would have been happy with would have been the first 60k for the 60m originally set, but the next 100k should have gone for 85m since that's what moral was set at for over 70k+deals which would have made a total of 12.3b.

I won't accept a sell now though, I'm sure I'll be fighting all age because Dragon_Orb isn't sending my morale back.

Dragon_Orb
25th March 2010, 03:34 AM
The unfair part is that morale just went up to 85m per k today, and I was still supposed to send 100k morale after that still at low price. The main thing was I wanted my morale back, he won't send it, so now I fight.

The deal that should have been incorporated that I would have been happy with would have been the first 60k for the 60m originally set, but the next 100k should have gone for 85m since that's what moral was set at for over 70k+deals which would have made a total of 12.3b.

I won't accept a sell now though, I'm sure I'll be fighting all age because Dragon_Orb isn't sending my morale back.


[16:17] <Dragon_Orb|buys_morale> you'll get the gold for what you've sent if you're BREAKING the DEAL YOU AGREED TO
I had said that you would be paid for what you sent in the original conversation, even if you broke the deal. At no point did i say anything about you not being paid.

powdered_donuts
25th March 2010, 03:48 AM
I had said that you would be paid for what you sent in the original conversation, even if you broke the deal. At no point did i say anything about you not being paid.

I want my morale back.

Now for the letters so far:


DeaTHReQueST Hi Powdered_Donuts 2 hours ago



Due to information I've received on your recent against Spiderwoman,
which you can find here: http://www.lacnfamily.com/contract.php?id=47142

I felt inclined to open actions for 24HRS time.

I will be your contact during this Contract,
so if you feel this action is unfair because the information I've received
isn't complete or correct, contact me at once.

If not, and you sab back the LaCN members in your log, your contract will
be extended with 48HRS.


Sincerely,

DeaTHReQueST
BF-mod
La Cosa Nostra

DeaTHReQueST I'm approved? :O 14 minutes ago no

Crazy, but that's how it goes millions of people living as foes.
Maybe, it's not too late to learn how to love and forget how to hate.

Mental wounds not healing life's a bitter shame.

Sincerely,
PD-thatonguyintS

Speechless None 2 hours ago



hmm... whats with the sab...?

Speechless A reply that makes sense 27 minutes ago no

See the path in the sky? How can I go away
You have to be at least one pound to get a date with me. :D

You have been looking for love, I know, you know, It seems so hard to find the right thing to do.

I dont know what love is about,I dont know why I feel so sad, chasing that cloud so round I thought I loved you.

Sincerely,
PD-thatoneguyintS

Dragstor Powdered_Donuts 2 hours ago



hey,
Could you explain why you have sabbed me plz ?
I didn't attack nor sabotage nor recon anyone during the last 5 days.
Looking forward to hearing your explanation or you'll be kinda sorry i'm afraid.

Regards, Dragstor

Dragstor I shall be sorry 24 minutes ago no

I woke up this morning then ,I went back to bed.
Said I woke up this morning, then I went right back to bed.
Got a funny kind of feelin' like I got broken glass in my underwear.
And a herd of wild pigs is trying to chew off my head.
You know what I'm sayin?

Sincerely,
PD-thatoneguyintS

nhuk82 None 2 hours ago



Care to explain the reason for sabbing before it is reported to the lacn bf mod? To the best of my knowledge i hav not spy, attacked, or sabbed you.

With highest regards,


Nhuk82

nhuk82 None 20 minutes ago no

How come you're always such a fussy young man?
Don't want no Captain Crunch, don't want no Raisin Bran.
Well, don't you know that other kids are starving in Japan.
So eat it, just eat it.

Don't wanna argue, I don't wanna debate.
Don't want to hear about what kind of food you hate.
You won't get no dessert 'till you clean off your plate.
So eat it, don't you tell me you're full.

Just eat it, eat it , eat it.
Get yourself an egg and beat it.
Have some more chicken, have some more pie.
It doesn't matter , it's broiled or fried.
Just eat it, eat it, eat it, eat it, eat it, eat it, eat it, eat it.

Sincerely,
PD-thatonguyintS

SonOfGod_LaCN None 1 hour ago



1 hour ago Powdered_Donuts Sabotage 1 0
1 hour ago Powdered_Donuts Sabotage 1 0

Why sab me?

SonOfGod_LaCN I knew why at 1 time 1 minute ago no

Destroy everything you touch today, destroy me this way.
Anything that may desert you, so it cannot hurt you.

Everything you touch you don't feel do not know what you steal.
Shakes your hand, takes your gun, walks you out of the sun.

Anything that may delay you might just save you.

You only have to look behind you at who's undermined you.
You only have to look behind you at who's underlined you.

SonOfGod_LaCN None 1 second ago no

Sincerely,
PD-thatoneguyintS

Blipje Songs, not Poems :P 1 second ago no

Kill the orcs, slay the orcs, destroy the orcs, you returned late home that night

Evidence all around you from the fight you see your family's blood spilled on the ground.

Theres no trace of the orcs to be found, take the broadsword in your hand, follow the orcs to their camp, you will have vengeance in blood, with their heads they will pay the price.

On their trail we hunt them tirelessly

Bloodshed eases their loss

Their decapitation leads to the cessation

Of the sadness, of the woe

Spill the blood of the orcs.

Sincerely,
PD-thatoneguyints

Stripper None 8 minutes ago



why did u sab me?

Stripper None 1 second ago no

You can't understand I still have a lot to say.

Cowards and crooks surrounded by liars, killers and haters.

I'm just tryna stack more funds. baby i'm a god i should walk around with nuns. but i walk around with guns use your head or you'll walk around with none.

Sincerely,
PD-thatonguyintS

Truewind
25th March 2010, 05:34 AM
So just to be clear, a contract was made and later on one of the parties wanted to break the contract.

~~~~~~

Now there are 3 reasonable options ahead of you at this point, if you're the person getting the morale.

You can:

1) Give back the morale as a gesture of good faith, and of camaraderie as friends in the same alliance.

2) Give the gold value, contractually stipulated, for however much was sent so far.

3) Give the gold value, at the current market price you were selling at, in this case 85m, instead of 60m.

(He did also offer to make the final exchange 13% higher, but everyone knows no one would accept a small bump, when you could get much more breaking the contract.)

~~~~~~~~~

Choices, Choices.

But see this is the problem with Kingsofchaos. People rarely think 2 or 3 steps ahead of what's in front of them.

In this case, Dragon orb decided to be a little selfish because he felt breaking the contract was unjust.
At the time that seemed sound and rational. People in this thread might agree with his rational train of thought.

Here is the problem with that Dragon orb, you just lost a fellow LaCN member, all over a small amount of gold.
Honestly is the cost of that worth it?

No it's not.

So failure to look ahead, into the future, and predict the costs of your actions, ended up cutting another LaCN member from the team.

Be a bit more far sighted next time LaCN members.

Wouldn't the better option have been to just sell him the market value(85m instead of 60m) of his 60k morale, and just call it even? Wouldn't you have kept a member that way, and possibly a friend?

Wouldn't you have gotten business anyways, at the price you were selling that day?

Was it worth it, to save that small insignificant amount of gold, and lose a valuable, tangible, asset as a member?


It wasn't worth it, and until LaCN learns that people are more valuable than gold, this will continue to happen.

~~Truewind

Dragon_Orb
25th March 2010, 05:43 AM
...
Give back the morale as a gesture of good faith, and of camaraderie as friends in the same alliance.
...
Here is the problem with that Dragon orb, you just lost a fellow LaCN member, all over a small amount of gold.
Honestly is the cost of that worth it?
...
So failure to look ahead, into the future, and predict the costs of your actions, ended up cutting another LaCN member from the team.
...
Was it worth it, to save that small insignificant amount of gold, and lose a valuable, tangible, asset as a member?
He is not LaCN, he was not LaCN :)

And that 13% you make fun of was 1.2 billion gold, not so small an amount ;)

JeNnAjAmEsoN
25th March 2010, 05:43 AM
Approval of PD is a miskate, u should be more diplomatic in LACN. Kab is getting more help from LACN mistakes than from his own successes :)
The cost of this situation to lacn is surely by far bigger than the differences between your morale deals.

Have fun all, keep us updated with damages

Dragon_Orb
25th March 2010, 05:46 AM
Approval of PD is a miskate, u should be more diplomatic in LACN.
We did not approve him until after he had massed/chained. At that point we really had no choice, noone will get off free from an action like that.

Truewind
25th March 2010, 06:01 AM
He is not LaCN, he was not LaCN, as far as i'm aware he never has been LaCN :)

And that 13% you make fun of was 1.2 billion gold, not so small an amount ;)

It seemed from the way he wrote his message, that he was lacn and he felt betrayed. Plus he was out of chain when i checked his account, which made me think he moved out after this debacle.

The cost it seemed, for not being diplomatic, was his massing and chaining, rather than loosing a member. So just take my last post and input his massing/chaining/and his attitude with LaCN as a whole.

~~~~~~~

So the question comes back to if it was worth it to anger him, just because you refused to give up a small amount of gold. Maybe instead of paying market value you could have paid 75m/1k, for that 60k he gave you. We'll never know because of the decisions that were made.


Also, giving him 1.2 billion, of the 4 billion he wanted, is offering less than a third of what he can get.

The counter offer you made him wasn't much of an offer really. It was better to just break the contract. Most everyone else would do the same.

Again just next time, lets all try to look at the long term consequences of our actions.

Dragon_Orb
25th March 2010, 06:12 AM
So the question comes back to if it was worth it to anger him, just because you refused to give up a small amount of gold. Maybe instead of paying market value you could have paid 75m/1k, for that 60k he gave you. We'll never know because of the decisions that were made.
So we should just give in to bullies who would sab if they don't get exactly what they want? I said from the start that we would pay him what he was owed for the morale he had sent. I made a higher offer on the amount that was remaining even though we had already agreed on a deal and it should have been honored as it was.

I can see no justification for the massing/chain sabbing at all. He would have been paid what was owed, we would have done nothing if he had ditched the deal besides being added to my personal shitlist.

As far as i can tell i have done nothing wrong, yet here i am being vilified for my actions.

powdered_donuts
25th March 2010, 06:13 AM
We did not approve him until after he had massed/chained. At that point we really had no choice, noone will get off free from an action like that.

And I stil want my morale back.


ImbaChief None 25 minutes ago



hello, can i ask why i got sabbed ?

btw youre posted on forums now

greetz chief

ImbaChief The answer is True 1 second ago no

Everybody wanna see me throw a fireball but that's not right not in real life.

Rope you up and put you in a bamboo cage and make you feel all my rage.
Poke you with a little stick till you page your buddies to come napalm me.

ImbaChief None 1 second ago no

Sincerely,
PD-thatoneguyintS

Dragon_Orb
25th March 2010, 06:16 AM
And I stil want my morale back.
I want my repairs back too. I want you to pay for the repairs on everyone else you massed. I want you to pay for the weapons you sabbed from others. You're out of luck now. You've massed, you've chain-sabbed and you expect us to pay you for it? I stated that we would give you the gold owed and you did this. Consider the morale reparations for your actions.

Truewind
25th March 2010, 06:27 AM
So we should just give in to bullies who would sab if they don't get exactly what they want? I said from the start that we would pay him what he was owed for the morale he had sent. I made a higher offer on the amount that was remaining even though we had already agreed on a deal and it should have been honored as it was.

I can see no justification for the massing/chain sabbing at all. He would have been paid what was owed, we would have done nothing if he had ditched the deal besides being added to my personal shitlist.

As far as i can tell i have done nothing wrong, yet here i am being vilified for my actions.

On a completely logical basis, yes, you made very logical counter offers, that lead nowhere and diplomatically got you nothing. Even though they may have been reasonable, they did nothing.

So you were supposed to "bite the bullet (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bite_the_bullet)" so that the long term effects of this would be good.


"To "bite the bullet" is to accept the consequences of a hard choice.[1] It is derived historically from the practice of having a patient clench a bullet in his or her teeth as a way to cope with the extreme pain of a surgical procedure without anesthetic.[2][3]

In philosophy, a major goal is to always sustain a consistent set of beliefs using sound reasoning. Often this will involve accepting a belief that is a disturbing truth. It may be disturbing because it is counterintuitive or has other disturbing consequences. Given a philosopher's previously held beliefs he or she may have to bite the bullet by accepting a particular claim offered as an extreme case or counterexample."

So yes, you were to bite the bullet and either give him back his morale, or pay him market, or near market value. Why would you do that and be generous? Because the long term effects of that generosity would be made up easily. (That's just speaking as a merchant, altruistically and for your Karma's sake, it's always better to make the other party feel satisfied and content.)




I want my repairs back too. I want you to pay for the repairs on everyone else you massed. I want you to pay for the weapons you sabbed from others. You're out of luck now. You've massed, you've chain-sabbed and you expect us to pay you for it? I stated that we would give you the gold owed and you did this. Consider the morale reparations for your actions.

So you're trying to take the high morale ground by keeping 160,000 morale on top of everything else? That's nearly 14 billion gold worth. 14,000,000,000.

Dragon, I'm trying to help ya bud, but I can't when you do things like that.

~~~~~~~~

Again, I ask, wouldn't it have been easier to just pay him market, or near market value for his 60k he sent?

If the 60k was that bothersome, you always had the option to just send it back.

I think the winner of the day at the end of this was Greed. Greed got the best of certain individuals in this thread.

If it were me, I'd have just sent the 60k back, or negotiated a market or near market sell for the 60k. This outcome is a mess.

Dragon_Orb
25th March 2010, 06:32 AM
So you're trying to take the high morale ground by keeping 160,000 morale on top of everything else? That's nearly 14 billion gold worth. 14,000,000,000.

Dragon, I'm trying to help ya bud, but I can't when you do things like that.
60k morale, 3.6bn value in the deal we made. I said he would be paid. He decided rather than get paid that he would mass me, mass all the other large accounts in LaCN and sab everyone he could. After that he expects us to pay him? Before he did that i was fully willing to pay him the gold that was owed for the morale he had sent, according to the deal we had made, without complaint (even if he decided to bail on the rest of the deal).

powdered_donuts
25th March 2010, 06:52 AM
60k morale, 3.6bn value in the deal we made. I said he would be paid. He decided rather than get paid that he would mass me, mass all the other large accounts in LaCN and sab everyone he could. After that he expects us to pay him? Before he did that i was fully willing to pay him the gold that was owed for the morale he had sent, according to the deal we had made, without complaint (even if he decided to bail on the rest of the deal).

I was perfectly fine with getting the sell right than and there, but you took off, and spiderwoman wasn't willing to sell to cover for you.

Than I had time to think about it, and in that time I realized you weren't going to send me my morale back, and I wanted that much more than a sell after the way you chose to do business, I still do, and I will continue to fight LaCN until I get it back or until the age ends.

It's no longer what the 60k morale is worth to me, now it's all about the principle of the matter, I clicked it, it's my morale, and you have it, now I want it back because you don't deserve it.

I'm only 1 person and can't get it back by fighting, but alby damned if I don't try.

Lopina
25th March 2010, 07:20 AM
PD, let's slow down a bit.

You do realize that Orbie was having more important RL issues at that time. What would it cost you if you waited for some time till Orbie got back? Why the need to be a hothead?

UMIST
25th March 2010, 07:31 AM
I am not amused reading this.

Truewind you are just not making sense. Selling morale is like doing business. For example , my dad has just sold a house for about $1.1m. Now lets say that in 1 year the cost goes up to $2m. Then should my dad go to the buyers and ask for $0.9m? No that would be stupid

The price of morale will always go up. If he wanted a better deal then he should have waited a few days.

PD u are the one to blame and u know it. Since u cannot blame anyone but yourself u are trying to give LaCN a bad name. Look at it from orbie's point of view. If he agreed with u then everyone one he had made a deal with would come to him and ask for a better deal

Learn to grow up and live with ur decisions mate.

Orbie COULD have given u the extra gold but u cannot EXPECT or FORCE him to. It is not greed that stopped him but it was a matter of principle. If i was in his shoes i would have done the same

powdered_donuts
25th March 2010, 07:46 AM
PD, let's slow down a bit.

You do realize that Orbie was having more important RL issues at that time. What would it cost you if you waited for some time till Orbie got back? Why the need to be a hothead?

It's not a debate anymore, I'm not being hot headed anymore, I'm perfectly calm as to just fight, or receive my morale back and call it a done deal. I don't see how that's being hot headed.

Dragon_Orb
25th March 2010, 07:49 AM
It's not a debate anymore, I'm not being hot headed anymore, I'm perfectly calm as to just fight, or receive my morale back and call it a done deal. I don't see how that's being hot headed.
How can you really expect anything back after all the crap you pulled? massing and chain sabbing. That's just stupid.

UMIST
25th March 2010, 07:50 AM
It's not a debate anymore, I'm not being hot headed anymore, I'm perfectly calm as to just fight, or receive my morale back and call it a done deal. I don't see how that's being hot headed.


the fact that u did not wait for a few days. if u did you may have got the deal u wanted

powdered_donuts
25th March 2010, 07:57 AM
I am not amused reading this.

Truewind you are just not making sense. Selling morale is like doing business. For example , my dad has just sold a house for about $1.1m. Now lets say that in 1 year the cost goes up to $2m. Then should my dad go to the buyers and ask for $0.9m? No that would be stupid

The price of morale will always go up. If he wanted a better deal then he should have waited a few days.

PD u are the one to blame and u know it. Since u cannot blame anyone but yourself u are trying to give LaCN a bad name. Look at it from orbie's point of view. If he agreed with u then everyone one he had made a deal with would come to him and ask for a better deal

Learn to grow up and live with ur decisions mate.

Orbie COULD have given u the extra gold but u cannot EXPECT or FORCE him to. It is not greed that stopped him but it was a matter of principle. If i was in his shoes i would have done the same

No no, we agreed on 160k morale for 9.4b, after I sent 60k morale he changes his price and offers 85m per k for deals over 70k morale. I still had 100k morale to send him. Is that hard to understand?

Seriously, if you are paying 85m/k today to one guy because over the course of the next four days he's going to send you 80k, but another guy your paying 60m/k and he's sending you the same amount in the same ammount of time you are screwing the 1 guy over.

As for growing up and living with my decisions, I didn't choose to get screwed over, I thought he would treat me the same as any other buyer, but I was wrong. And now I'm living with my decision, I'm fighting for what is myne, I'm fighting because I was expected to send him 100k morale for a price 25m below what someone else at the exact same time could have sent him 100k morale.

It does not make sense at all for me to send 100k morale starting from tonight, ending on monday night, when someone does the exact same thing for me to get paid 6b for it and him to get paid 8.5b for it.

I duno how else to explain that, I'm positive that was pretty throughput.

And now because he was going to screw me over I want my morale back and he won't send it back. So I fight.


How can you really expect anything back after all the crap you pulled? massing and chain sabbing. That's just stupid.

Because I clicked it, did you click it? No, you didn't click it, I clicked it.

Dragon_Orb
25th March 2010, 07:59 AM
Because I clicked it, did you click it? No, you didn't click it, I clicked it.
I'll give you 60k morale after you give me the gold for my repairs, the repairs of the other LaCN you massed and after you've replaced all the weapons you sabbed :)

UMIST
25th March 2010, 08:02 AM
PD like u said YOU AGREED to the prices u made. The prices of morale will go up no matter what. You know that!

powdered_donuts
25th March 2010, 08:03 AM
I'll give you 60k morale after you give me the gold for my repairs, the repairs of the other LaCN you massed and after you've replaced all the weapons you sabbed :)

You should have said that when I asked you for it back in the first place. Because the first time I asked for my morale back you said I would recieve a sell, and I said I didn't want the sell, I wanted my morale.

Lopina
25th March 2010, 08:04 AM
I'll give you 60k morale after you give me the gold for my repairs, the repairs of the other LaCN you massed and after you've replaced all the weapons you sabbed :)

Hmz, this seems like a fair deal to me.
As a matter of fact, if you do agree to it PD, I'll gladly ignore the damage done to my account, as a sign of good faith.

powdered_donuts
25th March 2010, 08:06 AM
Hmz, this seems like a fair deal to me.
As a matter of fact, if you do agree to it PD, I'll gladly ignore the damage done to my account, as a sign of good faith.

Absolutely not, he should have given my morale back when I asked for it the first time.

ZAR
25th March 2010, 08:17 AM
LaCN you should really work on your reputation, even tho you were right people blame you lol.

PD, you are absolutely wrong in this case, prices go up and a deal is a deal - asking back 60k Morale is a joke.

Lopina
25th March 2010, 08:18 AM
Absolutely not, he should have given my morale back when I asked for it the first time.

OK, you're confusing meh

You want your morale, but you don't want it.
You want a sell, but you don't want it.

Would you be so kind, and write in one or 2 short sentences what is what you want and what are you willing to give in return?

powdered_donuts
25th March 2010, 08:26 AM
OK, you're confusing meh

You want your morale, but you don't want it.
You want a sell, but you don't want it.

Would you be so kind, and write in one or 2 short sentences what is what you want and what are you willing to give in return?

That's easy, I want my morale back.


Krekkertje Sabotage 53 minutes ago



Hey there Powdered_Donuts,

I have noticed that you have sabbed me:
6 hours ago Powdered_Donuts Sabotage 1 0

Yet when I check my own logs I don't see the reason why you took these actions.

Could you be so nice to explain the reason for the actions?

Please send me a reply within 24 hours.

Thanks for your time.

Greetz,
Krekkertje
Proud member of LaCN

Krekkertje :/ 9 minutes ago yes

We are the things of shapes to come your freedom's not free and dumb.
This depression is great the Deformation Age, they know my name.
Waltzing to scum, and base and married to the pain.

The day that love opened our eyes, we watched the world end
We have "high" places but we have no friends the world told us
sin's not good but we know it's great

War-time full-frontal drugs, sex-tank armor plate

Sincerely,
PD-thatoneguyintS

Krekkertje None 4 minutes ago



I'm gonna enjoy seeing you getting sabbed to the max every day till the end of the age.

Krekkertje None 44 seconds ago no

Even an empty threat deserves a response you won't soon forget.
I must destroy everything that tries to infect.
Even an empty threat deserves a response you won't soon forget.
I must destroy everything that tries to infect.

Sincerely,
PD-thatoneguyintS

TwIzTiD_LoTuS None 42 minutes ago



7 hours ago Powdered_Donuts Sabotage

If you are going to sab me, atleast give me a reason why

TwIzTiD_LoTuS None 2 minutes ago no

The battle loves to choose its fights collapse the sight of soldiers eyes.
Bombs cascading over me may my body rest in pieces.

Spring mourning rain heal the wombs in me on me the battle is one Im now coming home.

Stitch me up with strings of symphonies.

Dream of me, lock inside your mind Ill hide.

Close your eyes just dream.

Grasping of youre your sheets, turn out the lights, holding on to memories never felt so right.

In your skin tonight, this is a reason.

Sincerely,
PD-thatoneguyintS

Stryker_LaCN None 21 minutes ago



7 hours ago Powdered_Donuts Sabotage 1 0


can u explain why sabb?

Stryker_LaCN None 1 second ago no

I'll tell them I found Jesus, that should throw them off He goes by the name Jesus(hay-suse) and steals hub. caps from cars Oh Jesus can I borrow your crow-bar?
To pry these God forbidden nails out they're beginning to hurt.
Crucified and all I got was this lousy T-shirt.
"I Can't Believe It's Not butter!" I'll sing as I'm flogged.
Yeah that's what I would do if I were God.

Sincerely,
PD-thatoneguyintS

chaser1
25th March 2010, 08:34 AM
It seemed from the way he wrote his message, that he was lacn and he felt betrayed. Plus he was out of chain when i checked his account, which made me think he moved out after this debacle.

The cost it seemed, for not being diplomatic, was his massing and chaining, rather than loosing a member. So just take my last post and input his massing/chaining/and his attitude with LaCN as a whole.

~~~~~~~

So the question comes back to if it was worth it to anger him, just because you refused to give up a small amount of gold. Maybe instead of paying market value you could have paid 75m/1k, for that 60k he gave you. We'll never know because of the decisions that were made.


Also, giving him 1.2 billion, of the 4 billion he wanted, is offering less than a third of what he can get.

The counter offer you made him wasn't much of an offer really. It was better to just break the contract. Most everyone else would do the same.

Again just next time, lets all try to look at the long term consequences of our actions.

Since a deal was made, Orbie didn't have to offer ANYTHING extra. A deal is a deal. Powdered_Donuts is a real life personal friend of mine, but we have differing views of how to play the game within alliances so we have opposite stances in the game. Yet, during the night, when he wasn't clicking, we go out, shoot the shit and play darts or card games or PS3 games. So I know him pretty well. He is a comical and funny guy and I'd like to find anyone in this game that could beat him in a game of cricket (darts, not that british ball game). This game has no affect on our friendship. He's one of my best friends. However, in this matter, I strongly believe he is wrong. He had a right to ask, but he shouldn't have expected Orbie to actually give him extra for a done deal. That would be like me approaching Orbie for the 40k Ive already sold him and asking him for the missing 85m p k that I didn't get (yes, I haven't sold to him since it was around 15-20m per k). On the other hand, BEFORE PD started massing, I tried to offer (in the second post of this thread) to try and get things worked out. He didn't even wait, he started smashing LaCN accounts.

So TrueWind, your moral logic is a bit warped if you ask me. We did the right thing and yes I tried to be diplomatic for PD, he just didn't give me a chance. It's too late now, he did damage and for most of LaCN, that is completely unacceptable.

Lopina
25th March 2010, 08:37 AM
That's easy, I want my morale back.

How bout this (note that this is only a suggestion, and being that only, I can't offer any guarantees):

You get all of your morale back minus the damage done to LaCN accounts converted to morale @ a price of 65M/K?

powdered_donuts
25th March 2010, 08:53 AM
How bout this (note that this is only a suggestion, and being that only, I can't offer any guarantees):

You get all of your morale back minus the damage done to LaCN accounts converted to morale @ a price of 65M/K?

/me shows no interest



TwIzTiD_LoTuS None 15 minutes ago



Now wait a sec

You gave Nhuk82 the lyrics to Eat it(which was funny) and then you go and give me that crap?

You have saddened me my friend.

TwIzTiD_LoTuS None 47 seconds ago yes

Sincerely,
PD-thatoneguyintS
TwIzTiD_LoTuS he was the lucky kat 1 minute ago yes

So the very next day we loaded up the car
With potato skins and pickled wieners
Crossword puzzles, Spider-Man comics
And mama's home made rhubarb pie

chrisby None 12 minutes ago



what was with the sab dude?

chrisby forgot my siggy again 1 second ago no

Sincerely,
PD-thatoneguyintS
chrisby I'm getting lazy 1 minute ago no

.........

JeNnAjAmEsoN
25th March 2010, 09:05 AM
Would lacn consider an agression if i sell to PD n*1k morale per 1M gold?.

Kryptonite
25th March 2010, 09:12 AM
I want my repairs back too. I want you to pay for the repairs on everyone else you massed. I want you to pay for the weapons you sabbed from others. You're out of luck now. You've massed, you've chain-sabbed and you expect us to pay you for it? I stated that we would give you the gold owed and you did this. Consider the morale reparations for your actions.

You should have paid him the price you were paying everyone else and guess what? You would have another 100k morale in the next few days and someone to still sell you largeeee amounts like that.

Typical fuckup by LaCN again. Always bullying people and stealing morale ofcourse. Not cool LaCN, not cool.

Lopina
25th March 2010, 09:13 AM
Would lacn consider an agression if i sell to PD n*1k morale per 1M gold?.

I'm not quite sure I understand you.

You want to sell morale to PD for 1M/K?

JeNnAjAmEsoN
25th March 2010, 09:16 AM
I'm not quite sure I understand you.

You want to sell morale to PD for 1M/K?

Yes, I do want to. I know its not the best deal i can get but....

Kryptonite
25th March 2010, 09:17 AM
OK, you're confusing meh

You want your morale, but you don't want it.
You want a sell, but you don't want it.

Would you be so kind, and write in one or 2 short sentences what is what you want and what are you willing to give in return?

You obviously didn't read his last few posts... he specifically says he wants his morale back... geez not too bright are ya ?;(

chaser1
25th March 2010, 09:29 AM
Kryptonite. he made the deal for a certain amount. A few days later, the morale prices had climbed. He didn't get robbed and as it is still seen, PD is still owed a sell for the morale (more than likely minus the damages caused but that is debatable). I don't see where you are getting that logic from. Many people in this game don't understand the concept of morale deals. If I sold you 40k morale right now at 85m/k and next week its up to 170m / k, Id be willing to bet you would tell me to piss off too if I demanded the 85m extra p k that I believe I should be getting. Or... at that time, when I demanded my morale back, you would probably tell me to piss off again. That'd be my guess. However, I generally don't trust anyone to do morale deals with unless they are in my own chain. I've seen some dirty things in the past when it comes to making deals. Case in point, A DEAL'S A DEAL!

Lopina
25th March 2010, 09:37 AM
Yes, I do want to. I know its not the best deal i can get but....

Ah, I love to see a good dose of sarcasm ;)
Brings life to these discussions ;)

Kryptonite
25th March 2010, 09:38 AM
Kryptonite. he made the deal for a certain amount. A few days later, the morale prices had climbed. He didn't get robbed and as it is still seen, PD is still owed a sell for the morale (more than likely minus the damages caused but that is debatable). I don't see where you are getting that logic from. Many people in this game don't understand the concept of morale deals. If I sold you 40k morale right now at 85m/k and next week its up to 170m / k, Id be willing to bet you would tell me to piss off too if I demanded the 85m extra p k that I believe I should be getting. Or... at that time, when I demanded my morale back, you would probably tell me to piss off again. That'd be my guess. However, I generally don't trust anyone to do morale deals with unless they are in my own chain. I've seen some dirty things in the past when it comes to making deals. Case in point, A DEAL'S A DEAL!

Well if the seller came to me to raise the price, I wouldn't have a problem paying him the same price we agreed on for the first 60k, and then every morale sent after that would be a new price... why screw one guy when you are overpaying to another? Not fair and not a good way to do business. My whole point was if Orb would have just gave him the sell and agreed to raise the price, PD would still be sending at least another 100k morale to Orb, possibly even another 100k+ deal. Seems like LaCN fucked them selves this time IMO. PD will be sending it to Kab for free (or cheaper maybe I dunno) and it will all work against LaCN. If you guys had thought about this in the first place...... oh who am I kidding :P

:<3: ya chaser.

chaser1
25th March 2010, 09:59 AM
Well if the seller came to me to raise the price, I wouldn't have a problem paying him the same price we agreed on for the first 60k, and then every morale sent after that would be a new price... why screw one guy when you are overpaying to another? Not fair and not a good way to do business. My whole point was if Orb would have just gave him the sell and agreed to raise the price, PD would still be sending at least another 100k morale to Orb, possibly even another 100k+ deal. Seems like LaCN fucked them selves this time IMO. PD will be sending it to Kab for free (or cheaper maybe I dunno) and it will all work against LaCN. If you guys had thought about this in the first place...... oh who am I kidding :P

:<3: ya chaser.

Umm, then you didn't read the story completely. He tried jacking the price of morale already sent up. How bout if I sent you 60k morale at 85m / k and waited a month to collect, expecting the prices be paid, a month from now, at those current prices. Im PRETTY sure that it wouldn't fly. It's no different here. He made a deal for morale and sent 60k at what, 60m p k? Then finds out last night that with current morale competition the prices were driven up. It's bad business to walk in and ask for a jackup in payment. As said before, a person walks into a store and buys a nice leather jacket, all black and creaky sounding with its newness for 300$. Finds out a week later that the same jacket is selling for only 100$. They can't walk into that store and demand $200 back. And if they started trashing the store because the store owner or manager said, "You bought it at THAT price," then that person is in trouble. They will be punished. You're grasping for a logical argument, it isn't working.

On the other side of the argument, if I was a building contractor and I agreed to build a house for $250K and minimum wage jumped and prices of lumber and supplies doubled. I can't turn around and say, "I demand $500k because prices climbed. OR else, gimme my lumber back." It's just how proper business works.

In PD's case, I tried to bend the rules and it would have been quite a try. PD didn't even wait ten minutes before he started massing from his first post in this thread. Which is when I first found out about this. (by the way, dano, I got fro's puter fixed. That's where I was.) So, the chance was given for at least somebody to sway things in his favor. He wouldn't take it.

As for PD sending morale to Kab for free, great, more power to him. But we do our best to keep morale deals fair. Had we made an exception for PD, the next person would have walked up and asked, "Hey, remember that 40k morale I sold you a month ago for 15m/k? Well, I want it back or the 70m/k you haven't paid me yet." Sounds far fetched but there are some really greedy people in this game who are dumb enough to try it and actually make a stink about it. PD just managed to skeet into that gray area where it is actually debatable, but not gray enough. Several days is a long time to try and alter a deal. Had Orbie jumped the prices 15 minutes after making a deal of that magnitude, then there would be a very valid debate in PD's favor.

Kryptonite
25th March 2010, 10:03 AM
Well then, Orb sould have sent the morale back to PD if he didn't want the gold. But no he didn't do that did he?

All I can do is /facepalm ... You guys... ... no... /facepalm

powdered_donuts
25th March 2010, 10:07 AM
Kryptonite. he made the deal for a certain amount. A few days later, the morale prices had climbed. He didn't get robbed and as it is still seen, PD is still owed a sell for the morale (more than likely minus the damages caused but that is debatable). I don't see where you are getting that logic from. Many people in this game don't understand the concept of morale deals. If I sold you 40k morale right now at 85m/k and next week its up to 170m / k, Id be willing to bet you would tell me to piss off too if I demanded the 85m extra p k that I believe I should be getting. Or... at that time, when I demanded my morale back, you would probably tell me to piss off again. That'd be my guess. However, I generally don't trust anyone to do morale deals with unless they are in my own chain. I've seen some dirty things in the past when it comes to making deals. Case in point, A DEAL'S A DEAL!

Edd, mate, listen. It was 60m/k, and for the three days it was still worth that it's fine, but if i'm to click 100k morale from now till monday and send it all to tgf, and you were to do the exact same thing *assuming i didn't go rougue against lacn* in the exact same time frame, from tonight till monday night, you would have recieved 8.5b gold for that morale and I would have recieved 6b gold.

I was robbed morale, as he has 60k morale that I clicked, and he didn't do shit for, he didn't even pay for. I asked for the full price for the five days of clicking I would have done and sent to him, he chose not to, so I wanted my morale back. Once again he chose not to send it back. So now I'm taking it out of LaCN and more.

And it's not longer about the value anymore, if LaCN wants to put up with me all age, than lets do it, either that or give it back.

chaser1
25th March 2010, 10:23 AM
Edd, mate, listen. It was 60m/k, and for the three days it was still worth that it's fine, but if i'm to click 100k morale from now till monday and send it all to tgf, and you were to do the exact same thing *assuming i didn't go rougue against lacn* in the exact same time frame, from tonight till monday night, you would have recieved 8.5b gold for that morale and I would have recieved 6b gold.

I was robbed morale, as he has 60k morale that I clicked, and he didn't do shit for, he didn't even pay for. I asked for the full price for the five days of clicking I would have done and sent to him, he chose not to, so I wanted my morale back. Once again he chose not to send it back. So now I'm taking it out of LaCN and more.

And it's not longer about the value anymore, if LaCN wants to put up with me all age, than lets do it, either that or give it back.

That part was what I was trying to work out for you. That the first 60k would have been paid at agreed and all morale from that point would be at the increased price. But I didnt even get into the IRC channel before I saw one person after another reporting that you had already started massing. It was 25 minutes past midnight when I saw the post and everyone was in bed. I couldn't call. You know why there. So I tried to rush in and talk to everyone but it was already on the forums that you'd massed Sh4nnon, then Orbie, then Spidey posted a contract, all within minutes of each other. I had IRC loading and just shut it off, thinking oO(couldn't even wait a few minutes? Damage is already done.)Oo

I'm VERY sure that I could have gotten that done for you. But as I told you over the phone, you caught orbie as he was stepping out for something RL life related (i dont know exactly what) but it was important to him. I know that I could have caught him at a better time and in the meantime gotten you an agreed increase on the remaining morale you owed. I just wish you could have waited. Anyways, I honestly thought you were going to rank to the end this age and not break down and fight someone. ;) By the way, I think some of the guys are coming back to the game.

ThomasA
25th March 2010, 10:27 AM
Now for the letters so far:

DeaTHReQueST Hi Powdered_Donuts 2 hours ago



Due to information I've received on your recent against Spiderwoman,
which you can find here: http://www.lacnfamily.com/contract.php?id=47142

I felt inclined to open actions for 24HRS time.

I will be your contact during this Contract,
so if you feel this action is unfair because the information I've received
isn't complete or correct, contact me at once.

If not, and you sab back the LaCN members in your log, your contract will
be extended with 48HRS.


Sincerely,

DeaTHReQueST
BF-mod
La Cosa Nostra



The bit I dont understand is that LaCN has opened a normal contract against PD as well as 'taking' compensation for their losses?

and why did DeaTHReQueST approve it based on that info, when Spiderwoman still wanted to come to a compromise to resolve it?

PS

If PD is going to be posting a lot of PM's in one go, pls put them in code tags.

Others, please be aware of the rules b4 posting, this thread hasnt been too bad so far though.

SpiderWoman
25th March 2010, 10:33 AM
Ok, I was in the middle of these two boys. I was relaying messages back and forth and they were both getting heated up. I wanted them to talk to each other but I see now that was a mistake. I should of kept the boys apart and tried to contain it, but I was tired also and wanted to go to bed. I told them both to put their swords back and discuss it. I even tried to ask powdered donuts for more time so I could talk to Orbie and see what I could do extra for him. Then I went to bank and saw that powdered donuts has massed me, and I was trying to help get a better price, so much for any assistance for PD. As a retired school teacher I knew better than to leave two boys together playing the game of who has the biggest sword!

BTW, In my contract on PD I asked for a BFmod to try and solve it peacefully, they opened actions on it when they discovered he had chained. I didn't ask for retaliation in my post.

chaser1
25th March 2010, 10:34 AM
The bit I dont understand is that LaCN has opened a normal contract against PD as well as 'taking' compensation for their losses?

and why did DeaTHReQueST approve it based on that info, when Spiderwoman still wanted to come to a compromise to resolve it?

PS

If PD is going to be posting a lot of PM's in one go, pls put them in quote tags.

Others, please be aware of the rules b4 posting, this thread hasnt been too bad so far though.

Because spidey posted on her own behalf, PD massed several of LaCN's top accounts, which changed the contract drastically. Had it only been spidey, then the compromise would have worked. But PD massed TGF, thus sparking an automatic approval.

JeNnAjAmEsoN
25th March 2010, 10:35 AM
this thread hasnt been too bad so far though.

Its because Homicid, Doc and blazed have not realised of this thread yet, dont loose hope Thomas, this can go much worst ;)

ThomasA
25th March 2010, 10:41 AM
Because spidey posted on her own behalf, PD massed several of LaCN's top accounts, which changed the contract drastically. Had it only been spidey, then the compromise would have worked. But PD massed TGF, thus sparking an automatic approval.

Thats not in the contract I read and is not what DR states in his PM,

"Due to information I've received on your recent against Spiderwoman,
which you can find here: http://www.lacnfamily.com/contract.php?id=47142

I felt inclined to open actions for 24HRS time."

There is no mention of others. At best this is an incomplete contract.

Does LacN consider it fair to 'take' compensation to cover their losses as well as taking action against PD's account?

chaser1
25th March 2010, 10:43 AM
Dunno, that's not entirely my decision to make.

As for showing other parts of the contract, I cannot do that, its not my contract and would be biased of me to handle the contract considering PD and I are RL friends. It was best that I avoided any part of the decision making process for the contract, even though anyone in their right mind would have approved him based on the severity of his actions.

ThomasA
25th March 2010, 11:00 AM
Dunno, that's not entirely my decision to make.

As for showing other parts of the contract, I cannot do that, its not my contract and would be biased of me to handle the contract considering PD and I are RL friends. It was best that I avoided any part of the decision making process for the contract, even though anyone in their right mind would have approved him based on the severity of his actions.

Was PD incorrectly informed by DR why he was approved then? I was under the impression these contracts were to allow people to know why they were approved and what action would be taken and give them a chance to dispute it. They cant do this if its incomplete.

Also DR makes no mention of keeping the morale as terms of the contract. In which case what has keeping the morale got to do with PD's actions against spiderwoman and the rest of the chain (if the contract also covers the rest of the chain)? By keeping the morale would you be breaking the terms of your own contract?

PS Just noticed spiderwoman's edit, and I do agree it does seam she wanted to resolve it. Though the time line of events is now confusing and what was based on what.

chaser1
25th March 2010, 11:11 AM
Im pretty flipping sure PD knows why he was approved. Heck HIS VERY FIRST POST in this thread, he knew why he was approved before he was even approved. So really, DR didn't even need to post anything to be honest. PD knows why he is approved. As for the morale, that isn't my call. I would just give it back to him, personally, but I don't make decisions for TGF. I can only advise.

LordCounter
25th March 2010, 11:19 AM
im kinda missing the whole point here. first of all, why in gods name would you sell morale to the tattoo bobs? and why are you making a thread on gua bitching you screwed yourself over lol. if you agree to an amount stick to it dont ask for more thats just bs. have some selfrespect o_0

ThomasA
25th March 2010, 11:22 AM
Im pretty flipping sure PD knows why he was approved. Heck HIS VERY FIRST POST in this thread, he knew why he was approved before he was even approved. So really, DR didn't even need to post anything to be honest. PD knows why he is approved. As for the morale, that isn't my call. I would just give it back to him, personally, but I don't make decisions for TGF. I can only advise.

lol, I think he might have a good idea also :P but maybe unclear on the terms to resolve. It just seamed that terms of a contract seemed very important to LaCN when it came to morale deals, the assumption I made was that this would also be the case with their BF contracts.

jog1
25th March 2010, 11:25 AM
I don't agree with PD sabbing LaCN and all, but he should still get paid for his 60k moral.

At war or not, this is a scam.

Lopina
25th March 2010, 11:40 AM
I don't agree with PD sabbing LaCN and all, but he should still get paid for his 60k moral.

OMG, did you just side with us in a discussion? The end is near!!! ;)

And yes, I too think PD needs to be paid for the morale, minus the damage he caused because he was impatient and couldn't wait a couple of hours to reach an agreement with either Spidey or Orbie.

ThomasA
25th March 2010, 11:43 AM
OMG, did you just side with us in a discussion? The end is near!!! ;)

And yes, I too think PD needs to be paid for the morale, minus the damage he caused because he was impatient and couldn't wait a couple of hours to reach an agreement with either Spidey or Orbie.

What about the damages to him caused by the standard contract?

Nasser
25th March 2010, 11:49 AM
Well LaCN is right in this case. A deal is a deal , and PD should have respected his word and the deal he made. extra gold because prices raised would only be a good gesture from LaCN.

LaCN should have also dealt with this a little faster before PD starts "actions" , could have kept a big potential morale seller.
So if I was in Dragon_Orb's place , I'd have paid PD more ( eventhough its my right not to ) just to keep his morale for me lol ... so Dragon_Orb could have acted smarter. but hes a tattoo person , we can't expect alot off him ;p.

Now PD can hurt LaCN in 3 ways:
Sabbing.
Massing.
Selling morale to KaB ( which funds his spy at the same time while hurting LaCN's growth ).

Lopina
25th March 2010, 11:58 AM
What about the damages to him caused by the standard contract?

You're right. Forgot that.

60k-dmgToLaCN+dmgToPD

powdered_donuts
25th March 2010, 12:17 PM
If PD is going to be posting a lot of PM's in one go, pls put them in code tags.

How do I do that? And you got confused, the sabbings from LaCN I knew what was for, I chained first. :P

As far as the calculations for 60kmorale-thisand+that .......... no ..... I want my morale back and that's it. It was made pretty clear to me by both Red and Dragon_Orb that I wasn't going to recieve my morale back.


betterbecareful None 1 hour ago
10 hours ago Powdered_Donuts Sabotage 1 0
have you got an explanation for this?

betterbecareful None 1 second ago no

I was once trapped inside a lightbulb with a wizard. The wizard said unto me, "You are trapped inside a light bulb with a wizard."

I replied, "Yea, I could tell."

that's it

Sincerely,
PD-thatoneguyintS

Cotillion_LaCN hi :) 13 minutes ago



hi powdered...u sabbed me, i (tried) sabbed you....then i realised why i wasnt gettin thru...lol....gl....respex...Cotillion....g

Cotillion_LaCN None 1 second ago no

i love you
you love me
were a happy family
with a great big hug
and a kiss from me 2 you
wont you say you love me 2
i love you
you love me
we are friends like friends should be with a great big hug and
a kiss from me 2 you
wont you say you love me 2

Sincerely,
PD-thatoneguyintS

ThomasA
25th March 2010, 12:25 PM
And you got confused, the sabbings from LaCN I knew what was for, I chained first. :P

I was trying to make a point about contracts :P rather unsuccessfully it seams :P

[ code]texthere[ /code] remove the spaces, its handy when posting lots of data (normally war logs) so you dont have to scroll forever to the next post.

Semper.Fidelis
25th March 2010, 12:34 PM
A deal is a deal , and PD should have respected his word and the deal he made.

And as such every person may chose NOT to go through with it as described in great detail in the corresponding law. When PD decided not to go through with the deal at the conditions that were offered he was and still is entitled to the morale he had send. Keeping the morale was a pathetic move. No surprise there.

ThomasA
25th March 2010, 12:42 PM
As far as the calculations for 60kmorale-thisand+that .......... no ..... I want my morale back and that's it. It was made pretty clear to me by both Red and Dragon_Orb that I wasn't going to recieve my morale back.


How bout giving his morale back and dealing with his transgressions on the BF like a normal contract?

You could still request the morale for compensation and take the normal actions if he doesnt pay.

People could also still debate the fairness of the contract :P

chaser1
25th March 2010, 12:55 PM
... so Dragon_Orb could have acted smarter. but hes a tattoo person


off topic, but what I find amusing is that I dont have any tattoos nor will I ever get one. im one of those old fashioned people when it comes to tattoos. Maybe Im in the wrong clan? LoL

Anyways, back on topic. I find it amusing these 1 person wars against LaCN. Although, I think PD has the best chance of them all so far.

JeNnAjAmEsoN
25th March 2010, 01:29 PM
How bout giving his morale back and dealing with his transgressions on the BF like a normal contract?

You could still request the morale for compensation and take the normal actions if he doesnt pay.

People could also still debate the fairness of the contract :P

Dont tell me now you dont find this solution fair.....

chrisl7605
25th March 2010, 01:30 PM
idk i think I am going to have to take pds side it was not minutes after pd sent the morale orb raised his prices by 35mil which is over half what he knew he was getting from pd. I dont see this as an accident what so ever and even though orb made it look like pds fault i hope we aren't to naive to see that he was scammed. To be honest its kind of sad that a sale orb could have afforded costed so many other people good portions of their accounts, if i am right only a few can sab pd.

Lopina
25th March 2010, 01:35 PM
2 hours ago TheGodFather_LaCN 20000
1 day ago TheGodFather_LaCN 20000
2 days ago TheGodFather_LaCN 20000


Not 3 minutes, chrisl, 3 DAYS

chaser1
25th March 2010, 01:36 PM
He sent the morale over the course of three days, look at the posts. The deal was made at least three days prior, not minutes.

cowboy_from_hell
25th March 2010, 02:04 PM
This is purely PD's own fault. Orb only needs to pay the price someone wants to sell for. If PD offered to sell for 60 mil/k it's his fault for being stupid.

Bryan
25th March 2010, 02:11 PM
PD, if your intentions were to sab LaCN, why didn't you take the sell in the first place (for the original 60k that orb offered you) and then use that to boost your spy to sab lacn?

as long as your damages to lacn < 60k morale, Orb has made a profit in this situation

chrisl7605
25th March 2010, 02:12 PM
alright my bad you guys make to long of posts to expect me to read all of it :p i just skimmed must have missed that.

chaser1
25th March 2010, 02:23 PM
Hey dano (pd), whatcha doing Saturday night? That paper tournament is on Saturday but I don't think it will be back in time for that. I'm messaging you here cus I know you will check here. Maybe we can get a chance to chat in person about this whole thing.

Truewind
25th March 2010, 02:35 PM
I believe Chaser, with all due respect, is being very naive and living in a self created utopia.


Naive = "Having or showing a lack of experience, judgment, or information; credulous: She's so naive she believes everything she reads. He has a very naive attitude toward politics. "

Utopia = "any visionary system of political or social perfection."

Source (http://dictionary.reference.com/)

We all admitted Dragon orb was being rational. But he was also being greedy keeping morale that wasn't his and logging off without solving his problem.

It's not all about being rational though, it's naive to think that, and short sighted:


"But see this is the problem with Kingsofchaos. People rarely think 2 or 3 steps ahead of what's in front of them.

In this case, Dragon orb decided to be a little selfish because he felt breaking the contract was unjust.
At the time that seemed sound and rational. People in this thread might agree with his rational train of thought.

Here is the problem with that Dragon orb, you just lost <repairs, future morale, and a friend>, all over a small amount of gold.
Honestly is the cost of that worth it?"

~~~~~

Chaser, If you had this problem, you wouldn't get anywhere.

This would be your conversation:



1) Give me my morale back

2) Chaser: No it was a fair deal

1) Give me my morale back

2) Chaser: No it was a fair deal

1) Give me my morale back

2) Chaser: No it was a fair deal

1) Give me my morale back

2) Chaser: No it was a fair deal

1) Give me my morale back

2) Chaser: No it was a fair deal

1) Give me my morale back

2) Chaser: No it was a fair deal



It would go on forever. Mediation isn't simply rationality, but intent, responses, and consequences.

No one is saying PD didn't break the contract. We all know he did. What we're all saying is Dragon Orb didn't mediate his problem correctly, and as a result he is facing the consequences of his actions.

He has no one to blame but himself and his greed.

He choose to keep 60,000 morale, and choose to log off, with no resolution to the conflict.

Every minute that goes by PD looses gold he could be getting from those soldiers.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~

So what's the fair thing to do. I think Thomas already suggested it:


How bout giving his morale back and dealing with his transgressions on the BF like a normal contract?

You could still request the morale for compensation and take the normal actions if he doesnt pay.

People could also still debate the fairness of the contract :P

~~~~~~~~~~~~~

So can we all agree to just give PD his morale back, and decide the battlefield issues, like anyone normally does.

Btw, for future reference, if you don't want issues like this, don't wrongfully keep nearly 5 billion gold that doesn't belong to you(market value of 60,000 morale).

If someone was holding about 5,000,000,000 of my gold, and refused to give me an option I deemed acceptable to get it back, I would chain and mass them too. Who wouldn't?

Chaser and Dragon orb need to learn to mediate their issues on a realistic level, look at future consequences of their actions, and not log off with items belonging to someone else.

The contract was never fulfilled by either side. 0 gold for 60,000 morale is ALSO a breach of contract on Dragon orbs part.

chaser1
25th March 2010, 03:39 PM
once again, you need to get all of your facts straight. I know powder_donuts better than ANYONE in this thread. You act as though you understand my point of view and what I see. But you don't.

You act as though I had direct involvement in the decision Orbie made. I didn't. I was going to try and mediate between Orbie and PD a solution but PD began massing before I could even try. Please, check you facts before you decide to slam people.

Sterling
25th March 2010, 03:50 PM
So what I've gained from this thread is that if you want to avoid troubles then avoid selling morale, to LaCN or otherwise. But especially LaCN.

UMIST
25th March 2010, 04:48 PM
I believe Chaser, with all due respect, is being very naive and living in a self created utopia.



We all admitted Dragon orb was being rational. But he was also being greedy keeping morale that wasn't his and logging off without solving his problem.

It's not all about being rational though, it's naive to think that, and short sighted:



~~~~~

Chaser, If you had this problem, you wouldn't get anywhere.

This would be your conversation:



1) Give me my morale back

2) Chaser: No it was a fair deal

1) Give me my morale back

2) Chaser: No it was a fair deal

1) Give me my morale back

2) Chaser: No it was a fair deal

1) Give me my morale back

2) Chaser: No it was a fair deal

1) Give me my morale back

2) Chaser: No it was a fair deal

1) Give me my morale back

2) Chaser: No it was a fair deal



It would go on forever. Mediation isn't simply rationality, but intent, responses, and consequences.

No one is saying PD didn't break the contract. We all know he did. What we're all saying is Dragon Orb didn't mediate his problem correctly, and as a result he is facing the consequences of his actions.

He has no one to blame but himself and his greed.

He choose to keep 60,000 morale, and choose to log off, with no resolution to the conflict.

Every minute that goes by PD looses gold he could be getting from those soldiers.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~

So what's the fair thing to do. I think Thomas already suggested it:



~~~~~~~~~~~~~

So can we all agree to just give PD his morale back, and decide the battlefield issues, like anyone normally does.

Btw, for future reference, if you don't want issues like this, don't wrongfully keep nearly 5 billion gold that doesn't belong to you(market value of 60,000 morale).

If someone was holding about 5,000,000,000 of my gold, and refused to give me an option I deemed acceptable to get it back, I would chain and mass them too. Who wouldn't?

Chaser and Dragon orb need to learn to mediate their issues on a realistic level, look at future consequences of their actions, and not log off with items belonging to someone else.

The contract was never fulfilled by either side. 0 gold for 60,000 morale is ALSO a breach of contract on Dragon orbs part.


Truewind can u please mind your own business. You are not involved in this situation nor are u in the LaCN chain. I cannot believe that you blame Dragon for this. He cannot be expect to talk to PD when he is busy in RL. RL is more important than a text based game or are u yet to realize that.All PD had to do was to wait for a while and chaser1 would have helped him. Chaser is an important member to LaCN and he could have swung the matter to PD favour. He however did not and decided to chain LaCN. That is PD's fault
You mention that Dragon was being unfair. Do u ont think that maybe PD was just being greedy. He AGREED to the deal. If he broke from it then he suffers. Once the morale has been sent to TGF it belongs to TGF an NO ONE else!If you think that it still belongs to PD then can u please send me 50k morale. It will still belong to u promise (according to u anyway)! So it is again PD's fault

Let me give u an example. I a few weeks back sold morale to Dragon at 40m/k. I took a few days to click and I heard the price went up to 50m/k. Should i have gone to Dragon back asking for more gold. If you AGREE with this then i will sell morale to you. I will then take the sell and come back 2 weeks later and ask for more gold or my morale back. I hate the way u talk instead of actually thinking for a min. It is not Dragon's greed that he did not agree to give PD more gold. Now this has been said before but think about this. If he had decided to give PD the extra gold then it would be right for me to ask for more gold. Everyone who has sold morale to TGF would do that. He would be FORCED then to give them all the extra gold.

Think before u talk







Think =
15.
to analyze or evolve rationally: to think the problem out.
16.
to have as a plan or intention: I thought that I would go.
17.
to anticipate or expect: I did not think to find you here.

Lopina
25th March 2010, 04:52 PM
So what I've gained from this thread is that if you want to avoid troubles then avoid selling morale, to LaCN or otherwise. But especially LaCN.

Sterling, would you be so kind to stop meddling in affairs which don't concern you.
I think one Fistsofthor is enough for GUA.

No offense, fists ;)

ThomasA
25th March 2010, 04:59 PM
Once the morale has been sent to TGF it belongs to TGF an NO ONE else!

Its my understanding TGF has yet to pay for it, until he does who does it belong to?

Also now LaCN want to alter the deal by subtracting losses from BF incidents, yet complained when PD tried to alter the deal. hmmmm

chaser1
25th March 2010, 05:08 PM
From what I understand, there is no OFFICIAL standing. Most of it is talk. Ill speak with PD sometime in the next few days and of course Ill see how LaCN actually feel about this.

Sterling
25th March 2010, 05:09 PM
Sterling, would you be so kind to stop meddling in affairs which don't concern you.
I think one Fistsofthor is enough for GUA.

No offense, fists ;)

No thanks. It's logical to draw the conclusion that LaCN cannot be trusted... their leadership has become too corrupt. I'm glad we have brave souls like PD and Skorpz to point it out on GUA so the rest of the players can know to avoid the LaCN's like the plague.

Lopina
25th March 2010, 05:11 PM
No thanks. It's logical to draw the conclusion that LaCN cannot be trusted... their leadership has become too corrupt. I'm glad we have brave souls like PD and Skorpz to point it out on GUA so the rest of the players can know to avoid the LaCN's like the plague.

Now I understand why thomas sabbed people over GUA posts...

Sterling, why wont you be so brave and tell us your KoC account name?

Sterling
25th March 2010, 05:15 PM
Now I understand why thomas sabbed people over GUA posts...

Sterling, why wont you be so brave and tell us your KoC account name?

I imagine this post will be deleted for irrelevance, but my account is ANGRY.

Lopina
25th March 2010, 05:25 PM
One more to the ignore list ;)

Sterling
25th March 2010, 05:27 PM
One more to the ignore list ;)

/care. What I said stands. LaCN should really start trying to improve their reputation because when you keep knocking on troubles door...

chaser1
25th March 2010, 05:33 PM
/care. What I said stands. LaCN should really start trying to improve their reputation because when you keep knocking on troubles door...

Join the anti-LaCN bandwagon. Being the largest chain in the game does this.

jackdaw
25th March 2010, 05:34 PM
So I thought I'd support LaCN and look at the fact that they feel they made a contract with PD that they are still willing to honor. LaCN is big on contracts and abiding by them.

PD made the deal for a certain price. LaCN still says they are willing to pay the price as the contract was clear and the terms were not subject to renegotiation.

So all good....wait,

LaCN now adds a penalty clause in which they will subtract damages. That wasn't in the original contract. So, it appears LaCN does admit that the contract really was not fixed and the terms could always be renegotiated.

Dragon_Orb
25th March 2010, 05:40 PM
So it seems that now it's my fault for having a RL. Well, i don't aplogise for that. I said at the start of the conversation that my brother was waiting for me, i spent 10 minutes asking him to wait while i tried to sort this out. My brother was getting annoying, Powdered_Donuts was swearing, getting abusive and trying to push my buttons. I don't have to put up with that crap from someone on some silly text-based game when i have family waiting for me. RL before this crappy game guys.

At the time of the conversation time i never said anything about not paying him (even after the abuse/swearing/button pushing i never threatened to not sell) and truth be told we had already worked out that friday i would give him the big sell so he most likely would have had to wait until then to receive any sell as since we had already agreed on a day for his previous sell i had organised other commitments for the time before then.

chaser1
25th March 2010, 05:41 PM
As stated before, i dont think that that's official. Its a few angry members stating that. Im sure we will find out soon what the true stance is.

EDIT: And I posted a second too late, looks like orbie answered. ;)

Dragon_Orb
25th March 2010, 05:42 PM
So I thought I'd support LaCN and look at the fact that they feel they made a contract with PD that they are still willing to honor. LaCN is big on contracts and abiding by them.

PD made the deal for a certain price. LaCN still says they are willing to pay the price as the contract was clear and the terms were not subject to renegotiation.

So all good....wait,

LaCN now adds a penalty clause in which they will subtract damages. That wasn't in the original contract. So, it appears LaCN does admit that the contract really was not fixed and the terms could always be renegotiated.The original contract was posted by Spiderwoman, for Powdered_Donuts actions against her, before it was realised that he had massed all the top accounts and sabbed everyone he could sab. That's not exactly a small amount of damage now is it. Chain-sabbing is an act of war, as is massing an alliances main account and all the other big accounts. When is the last time you gave your war enemies gold?

powdered_donuts
25th March 2010, 06:03 PM
Dragon Orb, this game may be stupid*depsite the fact I won't deny I still like it*, and I'll agree RL comes first, but all you had to do was send me my morale back, I said it a lot of times, and you chose not to.

And for more letters


BlackThunder None 5 hours ago

Hey can I get a funny message too ? ;P

BlackThunder None 1 second ago no

A funny message.

BlackThunder None 1 second ago no

Sincerely,

PD-thatoneguyintS

uford None 3 hours ago



Why are you sabbing me? Not cool man, not cool

uford None 25 seconds ago no

Uncool is a 2000/2002 album by Ron Thal/Bumblefoot. It was originally released only in France, then released in America with some tracks removed, some tracks remixed or with new parts, and some wholly new tracks.

Sincerely,
PD-thatoneguyintS

betterbecareful None 2 hours ago



Aah I see, that's a good explanation I guess yea. =P.

Don't show up in my logs again plz ;) If you do I will report it to my alliance but I trust that is not going to happen

betterbecareful None 1 second ago no

Indeed, I worked long and hard to come up with that gratifying answer.

Sincerely,
PD-thatoneguyintS

Cotillion_LaCN :) 5 hours ago



awwwww! alrite as u asked so nicely... shukz u got me a blushing like a ripe tomato...

Cotillion_LaCN None 1 second ago no

I like potatoe.

Sincerely,
PD-thatoneguyintS


And yes Edd, I'll be at the dart tourney.

Truewind
25th March 2010, 06:07 PM
So it seems that now it's my fault for having a RL. Well, i don't aplogise for that. I said at the start of the conversation that my brother was waiting for me, i spent 10 minutes asking him to wait while i tried to sort this out. My brother was getting annoying, Powdered_Donuts was swearing, getting abusive and trying to push my buttons. I don't have to put up with that crap from someone on some silly text-based game when i have family waiting for me. RL before this crappy game guys.

At the time of the conversation time i never said anything about not paying him (even after the abuse/swearing/button pushing i never threatened to not sell) and truth be told we had already worked out that friday i would give him the big sell so he most likely would have had to wait until then to receive any sell as since we had already agreed on a day for his previous sell i had organised other commitments for the time before then.

I don't feel sorry for you. I don't pity you. Don't try and blame this on RL.

If RL was so important, why didn't you just end this mess and send him his 60,000 morale back?

RL wasn't tough, you were acting tough, and refusing to address the situation in front of you.

No you decided to break the contract, and you have yet to pay him anything for his morale.

On top of that, you are renegotiating the terms of the contract, and removing morale for chaining and sabs!
Who gave you said authority to do so?

~~~~~~~~~~

Btw chaser, your post that followed mine, had absolutely no substance and was a bunch of hot air.

You said i had the facts wrong, but didn't list anything. If I truly got something wrong, I'm sorry. But You have to show it to me first, or pm it to me.

PD did what most people would do. He had 60,000 morale stolen from him, and now he's chaining LaCN to get his morale, or gold back.

Wouldn't you do the same if you had 60,000 morale stolen from you?

chaser1
25th March 2010, 06:09 PM
I stopped listing because everyone one of your posts is saying the same thing but in a different way. Your only repeatng yourself over and over.

Dragon_Orb
25th March 2010, 06:26 PM
I don't feel sorry for you. I don't pity you. Don't try and blame this on RL.

If RL was so important, why didn't you just end this mess and send him his 60,000 morale back?

RL wasn't tough, you were acting tough, and refusing to address the situation in front of you.

No you decided to break the contract, and you have yet to pay him anything for his morale.
I didn't change anything, Powdered_Donuts wanted it changed ^_^ I didn't have to change anything, i was generous and offered an increase that i didn't have to. (<< see, i adressed the situation)

I did NOT break any deal, once again Powdered_Donuts broke the deal (<< i didn't break any deal, he broke it. We had our deal, he wanted to change it)


On top of that, you are renegotiating the terms of the contract, and removing morale for chaining and sabs!
Who gave you said authority to do so?
Also not true, i'm in favor of giving him nothing after his war-actions, so don't accuse me of renegotiating anything.


PD did what most people would do. He had 60,000 morale stolen from him, and now he's chaining LaCN to get his morale, or gold back.

Wouldn't you do the same if you had 60,000 morale stolen from you?
NOTHING WAS STOLEN! I SAID I WOULD PAY! (before he chain-sabbed/massed) read my previous post fool.


At the time of the conversation i never said anything about not paying him (even after the abuse/swearing/button pushing i never threatened to not sell) and truth be told we had already worked out that friday i would give him the big sell so he most likely would have had to wait until then to receive any sell as since we had already agreed on a day for his previous sell i had organised other commitments for the time before then.

ThomasA
25th March 2010, 06:33 PM
Also not true, i'm in favor of giving him nothing after his war-actions, so don't accuse me of renegotiating anything.




NOTHING WAS STOLEN! I SAID I WOULD PAY! ([I]before[/I he chain-sabbed/massed)] read my previous post fool.

Im confused, taking without giving anything in return could be considered 'stealing'.

Is he going to get paid or his morale back? or nothing?

Dragon_Orb
25th March 2010, 06:35 PM
Im confused, taking without giving anything in return could be considered 'stealing'.

Is he going to get paid or his morale back? or nothing?

At the time I was happy for him to be paid, despite the fact he was breaking his deal. He has since chain-sabbed LaCN, he has massed our top accounts, both actions costing billions of gold in damage. It will need to be discussed but i personally am in favor of giving him nothing for such actions. That is my personal opinion though and it will be discussed so as to avoid bias from me being personally involved as i am.

Edit: the chain-sabbing/massing occured with no warning, he was never told he wouldn't be paid before that happened. We had arranged previously that his original 9.4bn sell would be done on Friday. Because we had arranged a time i had also arranged to look after other commitments before then, so it's most likely that he would have had to still wait until Friday to be paid for the 60k anywayz.

UMIST
25th March 2010, 06:47 PM
well guys from what we can gather from this is that Orb wanted to help but PD did not want to wait. He should have!

ThomasA
25th March 2010, 06:48 PM
Though undesirable to give anything to an 'enemy', the 2 things could be considered separate. The latter being covered by the contract opened up on him.

What is the honorable thing to do?


well guys from what we can gather from this is that Orb wanted to help but PD did not want to wait. He should have!



Admittedly i wasn't the nicest i've ever been (infact i was rather rude :p)

Probably not the best way to try to go about helping someone.

A lot of things could have been done differently.

powdered_donuts
25th March 2010, 06:52 PM
At the time I was happy for him to be paid, despite the fact he was breaking his deal. He has since chain-sabbed LaCN, he has massed our top accounts, both actions costing billions of gold in damage. It will need to be discussed but i personally am in favor of giving him nothing for such actions. That is my personal opinion though and it will be discussed so as to avoid bias from me being personally involved as i am.

Edit: the chain-sabbing/massing occured with no warning, he was never told he wouldn't be paid before that happened. We had arranged previously that his original 9.4bn sell would be done on Friday. Because we had arranged a time i had also arranged to look after other commitments before then, so it's most likely that he would have had to still wait until Friday to be paid for the 60k anywayz.

You told me I would be paid in a sell, I didn't want the sell, I want my morale back, I wanted my morale back, and I still want my morale back. And until I get it back I'm going to be as much a pain in LaCN's side as I possibly can be.

All you had to do was send the morale back to me when I told you to and this conflict never would have happened.

Truewind
25th March 2010, 06:54 PM
Though undesirable to give anything to an 'enemy', the 2 things could be considered separate. The latter being covered by the contract opened up on him.

What is the honorable thing to do?

Well as they say, you must be honorable even to your enemies, or else you are no better than they are, and they have a justification to have enmity towards you.

Thomas gave a very good resolution to all of this. He said very simply, to give all the morale back to PD and resolve the war conflicts separately.

Why can't we do this Dragon orb? What's the issue with that decision.

It seems wise, fair, and appropriate.

It seems much more fair than stealing 60,000 morale and breaking your own contract that way. You have no moral footing with that decision, to keep someone else's hard earned soldiers.

powdered_donuts
25th March 2010, 06:55 PM
well guys from what we can gather from this is that Orb wanted to help but PD did not want to wait. He should have!

Help me? Bull, he wanted to screw me, and he did. If he wanted to work things out he would have sent me my morale back.

ZAR
25th March 2010, 07:10 PM
Help me? Bull, he wanted to screw me, and he did. If he wanted to work things out he would have sent me my morale back.

I dont see anyone sending you the morale back,maybe you can point me to a chain/main that would do this? - with sending the Morale to him you have accepted the terms - until then you could have withdrawn from your deal.

powdered_donuts
25th March 2010, 07:27 PM
I dont see anyone sending you the morale back,maybe you can point me to a chain/main that would do this? - with sending the Morale to him you have accepted the terms - until then you could have withdrawn from your deal.

He has no right to just keep my morale. And if he chooses to keep it, than he stole it, and I will continue to do damage to LaCN because of it.

Dragon_Orb
25th March 2010, 07:40 PM
He has no right to just keep my morale. And if he chooses to keep it, than he stole it, and I will continue to do damage to LaCN because of it.
You made a deal, you were going to be paid according to that deal. You effectively signed a contract.

If you buy a car, sign the contract to buy it and it goes on special before it's delivered to you then you're shit out of luck.

ThomasA
25th March 2010, 07:44 PM
You made a deal, you were going to be paid according to that deal. You effectively signed a contract.

If you buy a car, sign the contract to buy it and it goes on special before it's delivered to you then you're shit out of luck.

likewise if you dont pay for the car, or meet all the payments they will come and take it off you.

Dragon_Orb
25th March 2010, 07:49 PM
likewise if you dont pay for the car, or meet all the payments they will come and take it off you.
And they will also come knocking if you do damage as well, yes? ^_^ You have to compensate that :p

ThomasA
25th March 2010, 07:52 PM
And they will also come knocking if you do damage as well, yes? ^_^ You have to compensate that :p

yeah, they will usually invoice you separately, say if you damaged another car whilst leaving the dealer and treat it as 2 transactions.

if you don't honor the second, they would then take action.

Dragon_Orb
25th March 2010, 07:56 PM
yeah, they will usually invoice you separately, say if you damaged another car whilst leaving the dealer and treat it as 2 transactions.

if you don't honor the second, they would then take action.
He refused the payment of gold and did these actions. That was his choice. That seems to be something that's been overlooked so far. I said the gold would be paid, he refused it.

As ZAR said, no-one will fork over 60k morale. He made the deal to send morale for gold, when it came to it he refused to accept the gold and demanded the morale back, after massing and chaining.

ThomasA
25th March 2010, 07:59 PM
He refused the payment of gold and did these actions. That was his choice.

It could still be argued you have something, which technically doesnt belong to you as it has not been paid for.

As I said before, what is the honorable thing to do? or is honor irrelevant?

Dragon_Orb
25th March 2010, 08:03 PM
It could still be argued you have something, which technically doesnt belong to you as it has not been paid for.

As I said before, what is the honorable thing to do? or is honor irrelevant?
Where is the honor from what has been done to LaCN? The excuse for doing it was that he was not going to be paid, that was never the case.

EDIT: Anywayz i'm going to argue with a brick wall, i think it's more reasonable than Powdered_Donuts. The actions he's taken have backed me into a wall. Point to me the alliance that would give someone a payment after they've been chained and massed for billions of gold?

ThomasA
25th March 2010, 08:08 PM
Where is the honor from what has been done to LaCN? The excuse for doing it was that he was not going to be paid, that was never the case.

Does it matter if the other side is honorable or not to be honorable yourself? or in 'war' does honor and values go out the window?

I thought the true test of honor was being honorable yourself despite how others behave to you. Does war justify stooping to others levels?

powdered_donuts
25th March 2010, 08:10 PM
He refused the payment of gold and did these actions. That was his choice. That seems to be something that's been overlooked so far. I said the gold would be paid, he refused it.

As ZAR said, no-one will fork over 60k morale. He made the deal to send morale for gold, when it came to it he refused to accept the gold and demanded the morale back, after massing and chaining.

I demanded the morale back BEFORE massing and chaining, you told me to get bent and than left the convo. That's when I massed.

Dragon_Orb
25th March 2010, 08:12 PM
I demanded the morale back BEFORE massing and chaining, you told me to get bent and than left the convo. That's when I massed.
I said i would pay you what you were owed, according to the deal you made. Then you got abusive and i don't have to take that shit from some stranger when i'm taking time out to try and help, making my own brother wait around for me while i do this. You agreed to our deal, i didn't have to offer you any increase yet still i did, trying to be nice. You refused it, i offered to pay what we owed you, you refused it, you got abusive, then i told you to get bent.

Just because you WANT the morale back does not mean you are entitled to it. You were entitled to the payment, which you refused and by your damaging actions the rest of the LaCN leadership will decide whether they feel you have forfeited that entitlement, as i am too involed.

powdered_donuts
25th March 2010, 08:15 PM
I said i would pay you what you were owed, according to the deal you made. Then you got abusive and i don't have to take that shit from some stranger when i'm taking time out to try and help. You agreed to our deal, i didn't have to offer you any increase yet still i did, trying to be nice. You refused it, i offered to pay what we owed you, you refused it, you got abusive, then i told you to get bent.

I only demanded that you give back what was myne, and good job, you didn't take that shit from a stranger, but a lot of your fellow members had to endure it because of you, and as long as you don't send me the morale that is rightfully myne, I will continue to make your fellow members endure it from a stranger.

Dragon_Orb
25th March 2010, 08:17 PM
...as long as you don't send me the morale that is rightfully myne, I will continue to make your fellow members endure it from a stranger.
It is not rightfully yours. Just because you want it does not mean you are entitled to it. You agreed to the deal, you sent the morale, you are no longer entitled to it. As i said, you were entitled to the payment, which you refused and by your damaging actions the rest of the LaCN leadership will decide whether they feel you have forfeited that entitlement, as i am too involed.

Lord_Ezek
25th March 2010, 08:56 PM
So just to be clear, a contract was made and later on one of the parties wanted to break the contract.

~~~~~~

Now there are 3 reasonable options ahead of you at this point, if you're the person getting the morale.

You can:

1) Give back the morale as a gesture of good faith, and of camaraderie as friends in the same alliance.

2) Give the gold value, contractually stipulated, for however much was sent so far.

3) Give the gold value, at the current market price you were selling at, in this case 85m, instead of 60m.

(He did also offer to make the final exchange 13% higher, but everyone knows no one would accept a small bump, when you could get much more breaking the contract.)

~~~~~~~~~

Choices, Choices.

But see this is the problem with Kingsofchaos. People rarely think 2 or 3 steps ahead of what's in front of them.

In this case, Dragon orb decided to be a little selfish because he felt breaking the contract was unjust.
At the time that seemed sound and rational. People in this thread might agree with his rational train of thought.

Here is the problem with that Dragon orb, you just lost a fellow LaCN member, all over a small amount of gold.
Honestly is the cost of that worth it?

No it's not.

So failure to look ahead, into the future, and predict the costs of your actions, ended up cutting another LaCN member from the team.

Be a bit more far sighted next time LaCN members.

Wouldn't the better option have been to just sell him the market value(85m instead of 60m) of his 60k morale, and just call it even? Wouldn't you have kept a member that way, and possibly a friend?

Wouldn't you have gotten business anyways, at the price you were selling that day?

Was it worth it, to save that small insignificant amount of gold, and lose a valuable, tangible, asset as a member?


It wasn't worth it, and until LaCN learns that people are more valuable than gold, this will continue to happen.

~~Truewind

hey, i remember you from Age 7. its when you were posting propaganda thats ALWAYS against LaCN. I can understand you back then since you have an empty account with just steeds and elven cloaks and we're at war. Not now though.

Why so much hate? lol

Still haven't recovered from it?

Truewind
25th March 2010, 08:56 PM
EDIT: ^^^^ Above equals Flame post filled with lies. I treat LaCN the same as any other Alliance. No one there has hurt me personally

My age 7 Armory:

http://img528.imageshack.us/img528/9510/armoryage7.jpg

I finished in top 900, and that's after I sold a top 400 ranked account in the first couple months.

You can take your "just steeds and cloaks" and place it in your lying mouth.

~~~~~~~~

It is not rightfully yours. Just because you want it does not mean you are entitled to it. You agreed to the deal, you sent the morale, you are no longer entitled to it. As i said, you were entitled to the payment, which you refused and by your damaging actions the rest of the LaCN leadership will decide whether they feel you have forfeited that entitlement, as i am too involed.

Lmao, talk about a fantasy world :D

I'd hate for you to become a Judge Dragon, because you'd have a lot of decisions appealed successfully.

~~~~~~

The contract says

1) You get morale

2) I get gold

~~~~~~~~~~

Reality says:

1) I gave partial morale

2) You get no gold (BREACH OF CONTRACT )

~~~~~~~~~~~

The chains and sabs are a separate matter. As Thomas said, that should be settled separately.

Dragon, to be fair you need to either:

1) Give him back all his morale

2) Pay him the gold for his 60k morale

3) Reset your account, and spend your life in RL with your brother. ;) :)

~~Truewind

Dissenter
25th March 2010, 09:12 PM
wow... I think you just got placed by a paladin.

Lord_Ezek
25th March 2010, 09:17 PM
was that before the war?

lol you can post whatever screenies you have there. But one of the main reason im not giving you much attention was because of that very long war you only had 640 weapons. maybe you got a sell or something? :p

Semper.Fidelis
25th March 2010, 09:19 PM
If you buy a car, sign the contract to buy it and it goes on special before it's delivered to you then you're shit out of luck.

Actually you can just retract your consent regarding the contract and you'll get your money back. And then you can buy the car for the special offer or buy another car or a boat. That is regardles of the conclusion of the contract by both parties delivering their goods for a limited period of time. (14 days were I live) In your case the contract wasn't even concluded so PD has every right to just retract his consent and is entitled to his down payment.

If I sell you my car and you decide you don't want it - after we made a deal - cause you found another car for less money or just because you don't feel like it w/o any reason at all I HAVE to give you your money back and the deal is off.
What i'm talking about is not anullment since that requires the deal to be violated by at least one party, it is the general right of revocation in contract law.

Dragon_Orb
25th March 2010, 09:23 PM
Actually you can just retract your consent regarding the contract and you'll get your money back. And then you can buy the car for the special offer or buy another car or a boat. That is regardles of the conclusion of the contract by both parties delivering their goods for a limited period of time. (14 days were I live) In your case the contract wasn't even concluded so PD has every right to just retract his consent and is entitled to his down payment.

If I sell you my car and you decide you don't want it - after we made a deal - cause you found another car for less money or just because you don't feel like it w/o any reason at all I HAVE to give you your money back and the deal is off.
What i'm talking about is not anullment since that requires the deal to be violated by at least one party, it is the general right of revocation in contract law.
And what is the provision for damaged goods then? I imagine that for any anullment or anything of the sort everything has to be in as-new, re-saleable condition, completely undamaged? ^_^

Cause the actions, which ARE related and not a seperate issue as far as i'm concerned as it is due to the deal, did cause damages.

(People can say as much as they want that the massing/chaining are unrelated but it's just not true. When they are being done to enforce a demand then the 2 go hand-in-hand)

chaser1
25th March 2010, 09:32 PM
EDIT: ^^^^ Above equals Flame post filled with lies. I treat LaCN the same as any other Alliance. No one there has hurt me personally

My age 7 Armory:

http://img528.imageshack.us/img528/9510/armoryage7.jpg

I finished in top 900, and that's after I sold a top 400 ranked account in the first couple months.

You can take your "just steeds and cloaks" and place it in your lying mouth.

~~~~~~~~


Lmao, talk about a fantasy world :D

I'd hate for you to become a Judge Dragon, because you'd have a lot of decisions appealed successfully.

~~~~~~

The contract says

1) You get morale

2) I get gold

~~~~~~~~~~

Reality says:

1) I gave partial morale

2) You get no gold (BREACH OF CONTRACT )

~~~~~~~~~~~

The chains and sabs are a separate matter. As Thomas said, that should be settled separately.

Dragon, to be fair you need to either:

1) Give him back all his morale

2) Pay him the gold for his 60k morale

3) Reset your account, and spend your life in RL with your brother. ;) :)

~~Truewind

Im curious, you treat all alliances the same as LaCN? What alliance are you from? Why is your name and rank erased out of the screenshot you provided. That could be anyone. I was Chaser1_TCL at the end of age seven, after 10 months of long warring. I can hardly call myself pwned after warring nearly the entire game. im starting to like your logic truewind. So, you must hate all alliances equally, including your own.

Ahh looking back through the past, I see that you must be representing Fearless Force, who PD is now selling morale to. That's cool. But I can hardly say you see all chains equally. It seems someone is bitter about something that happened FOUR YEARS AGO! LOL!!!! AHAHAHAHAHAHA!!

ThomasA
25th March 2010, 09:33 PM
I dont think people are stating its unrelated, just that they should be treated separately.

In theory you have been getting interest with it sitting in your bank for several days.

LaCN choose to open a contract on PD for the damages he did. Is it reasonable now to also keep his morale? so he has to pay twice?

Truewind
25th March 2010, 09:34 PM
was that before the war?

lol you can post whatever screenies you have there. But one of the main reason im not giving you much attention was because of that very long war you only had 640 weapons. maybe you got a sell or something? :p

That was my second age. I got absolutely no sells, and that pic was my account 7 days before they ended the age.

You my friend are lying, with no evidence whatsoever to your claims.

The only time my armory was even remotely near empty was for 2 weeks or so, after i sold off my rank 400 account.

Btw what's your in game name Ezek?

~~~~~~~~~~~~

EDIT:


Im curious, you treat all alliances the same as LaCN? What alliance are you from? Why is your name and rank erased out of the screenshot you provided. That could be anyone. I was Chaser1_TCL at the end of age seven, after 10 months of long warring. I can hardly call myself pwned after warring nearly the entire game. im starting to like your logic truewind. So, you must hate all alliances equally, including your own.

Ahh looking back through the past, I see that you must be representing Fearless Force, who PD is now selling morale to. That's cool. But I can hardly say you see all chains equally. It seems someone is bitter about something that happened FOUR YEARS AGO! LOL!!!! AHAHAHAHAHAHA!!

KOC's OFFICIAL HISTORY LINK:
http://www.kingsofchaos.com/age7_final_stats.php?jump=&search_type=s&search=Truewind

Now people can we please stop trying to flame me, and get back on topic.

The fact that I was one of FF's top sabbers and accounts age 7, is undeniable. There is no use lying about it.

~~Truewind

ThomasA
25th March 2010, 09:37 PM
I think this Age 7 stuff is starting to edge away from the topic. Lets get back to the current and be careful of the insults.

chaser1
25th March 2010, 09:53 PM
KOC's OFFICIAL HISTORY LINK:
http://www.kingsofchaos.com/age7_final_stats.php?jump=&search_type=s&search=Truewind

Now people can we please stop trying to flame me, and get back on topic.

The fact that I was one of FF's top sabbers and accounts age 7, is undeniable. There is no use lying about it.

~~Truewind

Why? you have taken it upon yourself to flame us. Even singled me out as a perpetrator of this whole thing without even checking the facts. I have nothing to do with Orbie's decisions. I do have a small percentage vote on overall actions that LaCN does, but by no means do I have control of anything. Many of your posts insinuate that I do. By the way, your account wasn't all that great in age 7. Better than most but I don't think it was anything amazing.

Truewind
25th March 2010, 10:04 PM
Why? you have taken it upon yourself to flame us. Even singled me out as a perpetrator of this whole thing without even checking the facts. I have nothing to do with Orbie's decisions. I do have a small percentage vote on overall actions that LaCN does, but by no means do I have control of anything. Many of your posts insinuate that I do. By the way, your account wasn't all that great in age 7. Better than most but I don't think it was anything amazing.

I underlined your latest flame against me. I only showed my stats to prove I had more than "cloaks and steeds", which was offensive, to say the least.

Also i never flamed you. On top of that, I never singled you out as a perpetrator.

I quote myself saying:


"Chaser and Dragon orb need to learn to mediate their issues on a realistic level, look at future consequences of their actions, and not log off with items belonging to someone else."


"Chaser, If you had this problem, you wouldn't get anywhere.

This would be your conversation:

1) Give me my morale back

2) Chaser: No it was a fair deal

1) Give me my morale back

2) Chaser: No it was a fair deal

1) Give me my morale back

2) Chaser: No it was a fair deal

1) Give me my morale back

2) Chaser: No it was a fair deal

1) Give me my morale back

2) Chaser: No it was a fair deal

1) Give me my morale back

2) Chaser: No it was a fair deal

It would go on forever. Mediation isn't simply rationality, but intent, responses, and consequences. "

I stand by what I said. You negotiate just like Dragon does. You do it purely on rationale, and nothing else. Intent doesn't matter, nor does the happiness of the person you're mediating with.
That's the only thing i said. You and Dragon mediate incorrectly. That's it. There was never a single flame.

If there was, please quote it for me, and I'll apologize if that's the case.

Everyone knows, you have nothing to do with this situation. I just wanted to point out the way you and Dragon think similarly, and incorrectly on that issue.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Again though, Thomas is completely right.

Why can't we sepearte out the chaining into a battlefield discussion, and mediation, and the Morale into a separate issue?

Why jumble them all, unfairly together?

No one has answered that question, since the moment Thomas asked it.

Dragon_Orb
25th March 2010, 10:11 PM
Why should i mediate anything when the other party is being abusive? That attitude was obviously getting nowhere and it wasn't going to go anywhere at the time. In my opinion the best thing was to leave it and go back to it later. I didn't leave on the best terms but i won't sit by and take abuse and also watch the other person try to push my buttons. I may have given him the response he wanted but i definately felt better after telling him to get <firetrucked>. I also stated at the start of the convo that my brother had arrived and was waiting for me (which meant that i don't have long to talk).

EDIT: It is also impossible to seperate the 2 issues, if we were to resolve the morale deal issue on it's own, yet continue to leave Powdered_Donuts approved to recover the losses caused by his actions, you honestly expect me to believe that he won't retaliate on that approval (as it would then be justified (by your reckoning, i feel it's justified now :p) as we have losses whereas Powdered_Donuts would have none).

ThomasA
25th March 2010, 10:13 PM
1) Age 7 is off topic
2) Some of these flaming accusations are exaggerated. Though people are tending to get more heated and should calm down a bit before posting.
3) Lets get back to a civilized interesting debate. Its not often we get such interesting topics.

chaser1
25th March 2010, 10:14 PM
Once again, you know nothing about what I was doing or why i did it in such a way. im tired of repeating myself. reread the first posts that i made & maybe you would understand. & to me your posts R biased as the finger pointing at me is deemed as an attempt to flame. thats like me saying, "striker clan were a bunch of asses! therefore truewind is a bad recruitment mod for posting in this thread!" makes no sense.

ThomasA
25th March 2010, 10:21 PM
EDIT: It is also impossible to seperate the 2 issues, if we were to resolve the morale deal issue on it's own, yet continue to leave Powdered_Donuts approved to recover the losses caused by his actions, you honestly expect me to believe that he won't retaliate on that approval (as it would then be justified as we have losses whereas Powdered_Donuts would have none).

Most alliances have it already covered in their BF Policy if the target chooses to retaliate. Does LaCN not have this?

+ Give credit to chaser1 and spiderwoman, it did seam they tried to resolve it.

Dissenter
25th March 2010, 10:27 PM
Anyways, back to the topic, I'm honestly surprised that LaCN would have let this thing go so far. The morale market is a critical part of the game these days and to see that LaCN doesn't seem to want to settle their purchases in an appropriate or timely manner and is even willing to loose members over it is rather shocking. I wouldn't be surprised to see a lot more LaCN members going out of chain to sell. I for one have a few regular customers that don't sell to Dragon_Orb for this exact reason, and I welcome more customers at any time. It's been interesting to see you and Kab reaching for the top spot, but with the banning of SR's trickle accounts, Kab isn't going to be able to buy without throwing away all his tbg for much longer, and you aren't going to have anyone that wants to sell to you. If the market works out that way things could turn out very different that we see them right now.

Truewind
25th March 2010, 10:27 PM
I'm still waiting for Lord Ezek, to give me his ingame nick.

~~~~~~~~

Maybe a good way to finally resolve this would be to get the admins and leaders of tS and LaCN together, and just sit down and find a fair way to end it all.

I really think, unless that happens, that we won't get a good ending, or an ending that makes everyone happy.

Do the leaders of lacn and ts want to step in and help mediate? Is it even their place to?

Dragon_Orb
25th March 2010, 10:35 PM
Most alliances have it already covered in their BF Policy if the target chooses to retaliate. Does LaCN not have this?

+ Give credit to chaser1 and spiderwoman, it did seam they tried to resolve it.
Not many alliance have it covered when the target has 111bn sentry. For example Thomas, TUE has noone who can sab him. Not many people can sab 111bn sentry at this time. I count 14 people who can. Admittedly LaCN does have the most at 4 (only counting single alliances, not a joint effort by more than 1 alliance).


Maybe a good way to finally resolve this would be to get the admins and leaders of tS and LaCN together, and just sit down and find a fair way to end it all.

I really think, unless that happens, that we won't get a good ending, or an ending that makes everyone happy.

Do the leaders of lacn and ts want to step in and help mediate? Is it even their place to?
I honestly don't see what this has to do with tS leaders, it's not like we've chained them, as their member has done to us...

It's a thought though isn't it. Powdered_Donuts chained us, over a dispute between him and myself. He attacked and sabbed many innocent parties, even the ones trying to help him (such as Spidey and Chaser), maybe we should sab his officers and everyone else under him as well. If he sabbed my commander and his officers, maybe we should do the same.

But we haven't, as i'm attempting to be reasonable.

Dissenter
25th March 2010, 10:39 PM
It's a thought though isn't it. Powdered_Donuts chained us, over a dispute between him and myself. He attacked and sabbed many innocent parties, even the ones trying to help him (such as Spidey and Chaser), maybe we should sab his officers and everyone else under him as well. If he sabbed my commander and his officers, maybe we should do the same.

Agreed. It's high time you babies got your hands dirty this age.

Lord_Ezek
25th March 2010, 10:43 PM
I'm still waiting for Lord Ezek, to give me his ingame nick.

~~~~~~~~

Maybe a good way to finally resolve this would be to get the admins and leaders of tS and LaCN together, and just sit down and find a fair way to end it all.

I really think, unless that happens, that we won't get a good ending, or an ending that makes everyone happy.

Do the leaders of lacn and ts want to step in and help mediate? Is it even their place to?

For the first time, gotta agree with you on that one. :p

From what i think of the situation it was just a misunderstanding that went out of hand.

powdered donuts got pissed and felt betrayed because the price of morale went up after the deal. It shouldn't have ended to this if everyone's been patient.

ThomasA
25th March 2010, 10:43 PM
Not many alliance have it covered when the target has 111bn sentry. For example Thomas, TUE has noone who can sab him. Not many people can sab 111bn sentry at this time. I count 14 people who can. Admittedly LaCN does have the most at 4 (only counting single alliances, not a joint effort by more than 1 alliance).


Sabbing isnt the only way to damage an account as spiderwoman is aware of, from reading your contract.

Im not aware of any policies that go into as much detail as to break down actions by account size. The ones Ive seen appear to be 1 rule for all.

An account that size, I would assume would take some big losses by those that can sab him.

As Moderator:
Ive been lenient with 2 in thread warnings to drop the age 7 stuff. Any more it will be upgraded to personal.

If there is that much an interest in it, start another topic.

Dragon_Orb
25th March 2010, 11:11 PM
In the interest of fairness and to maintain honor i have once again offered Powdered_Donuts the chance to accept the value of the morale, as was our agreement, in the form of a sell of 3.6bn gold:

http://dragonorb.lacnfamily.com/f/PD-Offer.jpg

chaser1
25th March 2010, 11:13 PM
Actually, PD hasn't touched me, he DID get Spidey.

One more thing, we didn't lose any members over this. Powdered_Donuts is a member of tS, not LaCN. But, once again, we've ALREADY covered this. The beauty of this, Saturday night, more than likely, Powdered_Donuts and I will go sit at the bar, have a beer and play a game of darts together. It's a game. We will sit and debate things about KoC. We went our separate ways ages ago when TCL rejoined LaCN. The difference is, we have a common respect for each others playing style. Unlike some people I see posting in here, some players would probably attack another player based on KoC status and THAT is where people take things too far in this game.

In the case of PD vs LaCN, I know that PD could care less when at work or sitting at the bar. In the game, he puts on his game face. Id like to think that all players have their playing style and separate it from their REAL LIVES, but I know I'm wrong. Some people hack the game out of revenge. Some people tattoo their clan on themselves. Some people, I know this for a fact, have traveled a considerable distance and attempted to beat up another player in REAL LIFE over this game. I have even seen a player nearly break down into tears during the Age 6 bannings after losing a really good account AND hadn't cheated! Simply logged in from a public IP where someone HAD cheated. Still, they were misty eyed when explaining it. Ive even witnessed someone who had a real life crisis with their kid almost dying and an opposing alliance player catches wind of it and begins sending gruesome pictures of kids to that player as an attempt to antagonize them. Mind you, maybe not all of this is bad, but wow. The reason I even mention this is because some have pinned PD up as a hero while others have deemed him the devil. Ive even heard a comment or two that seem a bit too personal about him. It's a game. This is his game face. In real life, he is a hilariously awesome guy. Hopefully some of you can recognize that there is a difference. It's why KoC is considered an MMORPG.

SleepingDragon
25th March 2010, 11:14 PM
Where is the honor from what has been done to LaCN? The excuse for doing it was that he was not going to be paid, that was never the case.

EDIT: Anywayz i'm going to argue with a brick wall, i think it's more reasonable than Powdered_Donuts. The actions he's taken have backed me into a wall. Point to me the alliance that would give someone a payment after they've been chained and massed for billions of gold?

Since when does "honor" have to be shown to you before you show it? That's the kind of pompous attitude that has gotten LaCN in trouble throughout the ages. Honor must be consistent from the people who claim to represent it, you either conduct yourself with it thoroughly or you don't.

Let this be a lesson to people to be cautious of selling/buying morale out of chain. A deal is a deal is a deal...but until both sides follow through it's a not a sure thing. If he asked for the morale back and the opportunity for it to be sent back was there during conversation (even if it would have halved TGF's morale total), it should have been sent back since up to that point it was not paid for even though all the clicking work was actually done beforehand.

Dragon_Orb
25th March 2010, 11:19 PM
Since when does "honor" have to be shown to you before you show it? That's the kind of pompous attitude that has gotten LaCN in trouble throughout the ages. Honor must be consistent from the people who claim to represent it, you either conduct yourself with it thoroughly or you don't.
I have extended this courtesy to Powdered_Donuts even before your post (see quote below). I feel that i have conducted myself honorably, except for perhaps when i let my anger get the better of me when i left the original conversation.


In the interest of fairness and to maintain honor i have once again offered Powdered_Donuts the chance to accept the value of the morale, as was our agreement, in the form of a sell of 3.6bn gold:

http://dragonorb.lacnfamily.com/f/PD-Offer.jpg


Actually, PD hasn't touched me, he DID get Spidey.
I apologise for including Chaser then, though he still massed Spiderwoman even though she was trying to help him.

DrunKnGoblin
25th March 2010, 11:21 PM
Actually, PD hasn't touched me, he DID get Spidey.

One more thing, we didn't lose any members over this. Powdered_Donuts is a member of tS, not LaCN. But, once again, we've ALREADY covered this. The beauty of this, Saturday night, more than likely, Powdered_Donuts and I will go sit at the bar, have a beer and play a game of darts together. It's a game. We will sit and debate things about KoC. We went our separate ways ages ago when TCL rejoined LaCN. The difference is, we have a common respect for each others playing style. Unlike some people I see posting in here, some players would probably attack another player based on KoC status and THAT is where people take things too far in this game.

In the case of PD vs LaCN, I know that PD could care less when at work or sitting at the bar. In the game, he puts on his game face. Id like to think that all players have their playing style and separate it from their REAL LIVES, but I know I'm wrong. Some people hack the game out of revenge. Some people tattoo their clan on themselves. Some people, I know this for a fact, have traveled a considerable distance and attempted to beat up another player in REAL LIFE over this game. I have even seen a player nearly break down into tears during the Age 6 bannings after losing a really good account AND hadn't cheated! Simply logged in from a public IP where someone HAD cheated. Still, they were misty eyed when explaining it. Ive even witnessed someone who had a real life crisis with their kid almost dying and an opposing alliance player catches wind of it and begins sending gruesome pictures of kids to that player as an attempt to antagonize them. Mind you, maybe not all of this is bad, but wow. The reason I even mention this is because some have pinned PD up as a hero while others have deemed him the devil. Ive even heard a comment or two that seem a bit too personal about him. It's a game. This is his game face. In real life, he is a hilariously awesome guy. Hopefully some of you can recognize that there is a difference. It's why KoC is considered an MMORPG.

Nice Post Chaser, I think A few more people need to take this onboard, It is a Game, Nothing else, Enjoy it, dont make anything personal.
Sure u can have some lols with a few lil flames here and there to provoke, but as long as it is flames about gameplay or just some1's undeniable ability to be a nub. Or Its Just Propaganda (Always fun)

Cam

Truewind
25th March 2010, 11:22 PM
Since when does "honor" have to be shown to you before you show it? That's the kind of pompous attitude that has gotten LaCN in trouble throughout the ages. Honor must be consistent from the people who claim to represent it, you either conduct yourself with it thoroughly or you don't.

Let this be a lesson to people to be cautious of selling/buying morale out of chain. A deal is a deal is a deal...but until both sides follow through it's a not a sure thing. If he asked for the morale back and the opportunity for it to be sent back was there during conversation (even if it would have halved TGF's morale total), it should have been sent back since up to that point it was not paid for even though all the clicking work was actually done beforehand.

Very well put Sleeping dragon, very well put. A great way to explain this situation, and very succinctly written.

I think this is one of the best posts you've ever written.

Honor will get you far in this world, Greed will get you nothing.

Dragon_Orb
25th March 2010, 11:39 PM
Very well put Sleeping dragon, very well put. A great way to explain this situation, and very succinctly written.

I think this is one of the best posts you've ever written.

Honor will get you far in this world, Greed will get you nothing.
It would be my opinion that greed would be not accepting the value that was owed when our deal was broken, which is what i have once again offered to Powdered_Donuts. Accept what was owed when the deal was broken and call it even, the deal is over.

powdered_donuts
26th March 2010, 01:16 AM
I've said it over and over I want my morale back, here is what I find funny:

TheGodFather_LaCN Our Deal, Unfinished 2 hours ago

I considered it........

25 minutes ago TheGodFather_LaCN Sabotage 1 0

reconsidered pretty quick to

4 seconds ago TheGodFather_LaCN Attack defended 41 1,434 170,442,688,829 1,907,645,316
6 seconds ago TheGodFather_LaCN Attack defended 57 1,677 160,492,566,713 2,163,107,924
7 seconds ago TheGodFather_LaCN Attack defended 45 1,440 164,174,801,369 2,014,117,128
9 seconds ago TheGodFather_LaCN Attack defended 103 3,616 174,447,760,889 1,959,252,180
11 seconds ago TheGodFather_LaCN Attack defended 50 1,691 164,730,537,749 1,941,009,111
13 seconds ago TheGodFather_LaCN Attack defended 93 3,153 182,481,783,901 2,144,476,079
15 seconds ago TheGodFather_LaCN Attack defended 74 2,433 186,559,663,774 2,258,911,424
17 seconds ago TheGodFather_LaCN Attack defended 52 2,195 204,526,527,812 1,929,124,598
19 seconds ago TheGodFather_LaCN Attack defended 96 3,429 180,565,740,348 2,026,472,706
26 seconds ago TheGodFather_LaCN Attack defended 52 2,210 205,542,784,680 1,946,480,466

Dragon_Orb
26th March 2010, 01:22 AM
You think we'll let you walk away after chaining? I offered to sort out the morale deal but that doesn't change the fact that you have massed and chained us.

So now that you've declined the offer of the gold again and my attempts to resolve this morale deal issue:

LaCN's official position is that Powdered_Donuts can go <firetruck> himself :)


I feel that once again making the offer to pay the gold (after Powdered_Donuts has massed myself, the other large accounts in LaCN and chain-sabbed) was giving him a fair go. Now he has declined that offer twice i feel no remorse in making that statement.

xe-bec
26th March 2010, 01:47 AM
I think this thread has made me a little more cautious about selling morale. I will have to choose carefully who I sell my next 30k to.

JeNnAjAmEsoN
26th March 2010, 03:25 AM
So:
PD sent 60K morale.
PD considered the payment offered unacceptable.
PD didnt want to get paid, wanted his morale back.
PD didnt get his morale back as TGF was in a "hurry".
PD mass/sabbed some accounts in lacn.
PD is approved by LACN.

Again, he was not approved for not taking the morale sell but for rougeing lacn. Morale seems to be a different issue, but related someway, to be solved. Why, as ThomasA said (and many people supported) cant you give him his morale back and deal with the rouging like a normal contract procedure?.

You are stealing morale and that is not honourable......

Dragon_Orb
26th March 2010, 04:15 AM
So:
PD sent 60K morale.
PD considered the payment offered unacceptable.
PD didnt want to get paid, wanted his morale back.
PD didnt get his morale back as TGF was in a "hurry".
PD mass/sabbed some accounts in lacn.
PD is approved by LACN.

PD had agreed with the price, it was the top price at the time. He agreed to the deal, i don't owe him morale. I offered twice to pay him 3.6bn, the amount he agreed to (60m/k, top offer at the time).

This is a matter of powdered_donuts being greedy and demanding to change the price he was being paid after he had already agreed to a price. Twice now i have offered to pay the price we agreed on and cancel the rest of the deal.

JeNnAjAmEsoN
26th March 2010, 04:24 AM
Orb, you are being the one unable to close the deal. You cant pay him (as he is refusing the gold) and you still have his 60k morale. How are you going to close the deal?. Are you keeping the morale for free? Are you sending back just part of the morale? Are you gonna tell PD that you are gonna sell his 3.6B and he better hit you because otherwise someone else will take HIS 3.6B? Are you gonna pay what PD was demanding?.

If the car salesman bang my gf before i pay the car, i have to pay it anyways, i cant keep it for free. Other different issue its what i would do with the salesman later on.:p

Dragon_Orb
26th March 2010, 04:31 AM
I am not the one here who is trying to bully my way out of a deal so i can get my morale back try to make more gold. This is pure greed by Powdered_Donuts, trying to bully his way out of a deal he signed on to, for the top price at the time. That is the situation here, Powdered_Donuts trying to bully his way out of a deal due to greed.

I've been screwed over by morale prices in the past, going up after i've made a deal, i imagine pretty much everyone who sells morale has had it happen to them. Get over it, Powdered_Donuts is not special, he doesn't deserve special treatment. He made the deal, he should have followed through, he chose not to, i offered twice to pay him the 3.6bn gold that the 60k morale is worth, according to our deal. That's the best he'll get. I won't send the morale, i won't pay more than we agreed to.

JeNnAjAmEsoN
26th March 2010, 04:35 AM
I am not the one here who is trying to bully my way out of a deal so i can get my morale back try to make more gold. This is pure greed by Powdered_Donuts, trying to bully his way out of a deal he signed on to, for the top price at the time. That is the situation here, Powdered_Donuts trying to bully his way out of a deal due to greed.

I do not completely disagree but what im trying to tell you is that YOU are the one that has to decide how its gonna finish and (just if you want to) justify the reason of the decission taken. Many of us are truly curious of how this issue is gonna be dealt....


Get over it, Powdered_Donuts is not special, he doesn't deserve special treatment. He made the deal, he should have followed through, he chose not to, i offered twice to pay him the 3.6bn gold that the 60k morale is worth, according to our deal. That's the best he'll get. I won't send the morale, i won't pay more than we agreed to.

My curioisity is satisfied, thanks (but solution sucks, you are keeping morale for free :p)

Blipje
26th March 2010, 04:58 AM
I do not completely disagree but what im trying to tell you is that YOU are the one that has to decide how its gonna finish and (just if you want to) justify the reason of the decission taken. Many of us are truly curious of how this issue is gonna be dealt....



My curioisity is satisfied, thanks (but solution sucks, you are keeping morale for free :p)

Isn't dragon saying that PD will get his 3.6b if he wants it?

ThomasA
26th March 2010, 05:14 AM
Isn't dragon saying that PD will get his 3.6b if he wants it?

The issue is, the deal did not reach an conclusion and PD feels entitled to his morale back. DO hadnt paid for anything and not all the 'goods' had been supplied.

PD would not have had much of a case if DO had paid. DO was at an advantage with the 'goods' being supplied before payment was made. Maybe morale buyers should be paid first, to avoid such things occurring again.

If DO had returned the morale he would not have been at a loss, after all it was earning interest in the bank. It seams DO wants to keep it for his growth.

If PD was just being greedy and only cared about value, he would not have got himself approved to be taking losses from the LaCN contract.

Dragon_Orb
26th March 2010, 05:15 AM
Powdered_Donuts will be paid the 3.6bn gold owed to him if he decides he wants it before the age ends. However it will not be paid on the spot if he decides he wants it, there will be a time and date decided so that it does not disadvantage the seller. His approval will not be stopped as his actions are completely unjustified.


The issue is, the deal did not reach an conclusion and PD feels entitled to his morale back. DO hadnt paid for anything and not all the 'goods' had been supplied.

PD would not have had much of a case if DO had paid. DO was at an advantage with the 'goods' being supplied before payment was made. Maybe morale buyers should be paid first, to avoid such things occurring again.
That easily disadvantages buyers as people can just skip out. The deal i had with Powdered_Donuts was that i would pay him half way, which i thought was fair for an out-of-chain deal, especially a large one such as it was. I mean it's obvious that given the choice sellers would nearly always want the gold up front and buyers would want the morale first, so i compromise in offering the sells half way generally :)

Semper.Fidelis
26th March 2010, 05:23 AM
And what is the provision for damaged goods then? I imagine that for any anullment or anything of the sort everything has to be in as-new, re-saleable condition, completely undamaged? ^_^

Cause the actions, which ARE related and not a seperate issue as far as i'm concerned as it is due to the deal, did cause damages.


I think most of the people would agree that the issues are related, however PD wants his payment back and imo is entitled to it w/o any conditions. So you should send the morale back as recieved. Once that deal is concluded PD owes LaCN gold for the damage he caused, which is a new deal. Now you might think he won't pay which is a possibility and you can keep the approval going indefinetly or negoiate a 24hr period of approval w/o PD retaliating or whatever.
I think the important thing here is not to come out on top but to hold true to your principle. Sending back the morale will show honor is more then a meaningless and empty word LaCN uses to freely, it'd show it is indeed how you chose to resolve the situation and thus is your credo, which will show potential sellers the whole buisness stuff is more then just an act and go a long way in rebuilding your rep.
If PD recieved his payment and refused to compensate for the damage or agree to a ret. free approval period he would be the one showing he has no integrity and honor.
So the question is what's more important to LaCN, keeping 60k morale or doing buisness honorably.

That may come off as taking this game to seriously but for me that'd be the way to go.

ThomasA
26th March 2010, 05:24 AM
I mean it's obvious that given the choice sellers would nearly always want the gold up front and buyers would want the morale first,

The reason they want this is because it puts them at an advantage and allows them the control and they can 'get away' with 'stunts' like this. All the risks the seller has to bare.

SleepingDragon
26th March 2010, 05:30 AM
It would be my opinion that greed would be not accepting the value that was owed when our deal was broken, which is what i have once again offered to Powdered_Donuts. Accept what was owed when the deal was broken and call it even, the deal is over.

Greed is keeping the 60K morale, when the original deal called for 160K. He was LESS THAN 1/2 of the way there, therefore he should be entitled to the "new" price. If the majority (70%) was NOT done before the price changed, it's only fair and honorable he receive the new price...especially if he was not even notified of the price change and had to find out himself while also bringing it your LaCN's attention.

Also, I'm not saying it's right what he did with sabbing/massing, it's not. He deserved to be approved for his actions and his morale sent back...that way it's even and he can find someone else to pay him what he wants for a COMPLETED deal. Maybe he sells it to SR or another rival? Probably, but that's your fault for not recognizing he deserved the new price since he didn't even complete half the clicks when you changed the price. PD did not change the price, LaCN did. And if LaCN's official policy is for him to get <firetrucked> then all of the KoC morale sellers should think the same of LaCN's failure to live up to their code of honor when morale is concerned. It shows your desperation, especially when considering you can't tolerate losing TBG gold on a legit hit from in-chain players...time's are tough for LaCN and they are trying to save every penny and cut every corner. That's not my opinion, but that's exactly what your actions are saying and actions speak louder than words. :<3:

/win

Dragon_Orb
26th March 2010, 05:36 AM
Powdered_Donuts will be paid the 3.6bn gold owed to him if he decides he wants it before the age ends. However it will not be paid on the spot if he decides he wants it, there will be a time and date decided so that it does not disadvantage the seller...
I will honor my deal and i will honor it in the way i said above. I fail to see how this is dishonorable, it stays with the terms of the deal. Dont' forget that LaCN also have a history of refusing to give in to bullies, so this allows me to keep that precedant as well as honor my deal. In all honesty this is my good nature, it was left to me to tell Powdered_Donuts to shove it if i chose and give him nothing.


alot of stuff i'm deleting to stop my post being huge (see post above mine :p)You make it sound like i stubbornly refused to offer him anything at all, don't forget that i did offer him an extra 1.2bn gold, on top of the 9.6bn previously agreed, to make a new total of 10.6bn gold. This is not exactly a small amount of gold, it's around 10% of my account value at the time.


The reason they want this is because it puts them at an advantage and allows them the control and they can 'get away' with 'stunts' like this. All the risks the seller has to bare.
I also find that people tend to click alot slower when they get the gold up-front, most people need the motivation of the gold to keep clicking :p Once they've received the gold they tend to lose some motivation and slow down (this is not everyone but it is a good number of them). But as i said, i compromise and offer sells half way for people that i trust. Do a good deal with me and my paranoia and i'll give you my trust, that's how i work.

ThomasA
26th March 2010, 05:39 AM
Is it honorable to keep something you havent paid for, when that person wants it back?



I also find that people tend to click alot slower when they get the gold up-front, most people need the motivation of the gold to keep clicking :p Once they've received the gold they tend to lose some motivation and slow down (this is not everyone but it is a good number of them). But as i said, i compromise and offer sells half way for people that i trust. Do a good deal with me and my paranoia and i'll give you my trust, that's how i work.

Maybe that's the risk the buyer should take to even things out. The 'goods' must be of value to the buyer, for them to want to buy it.

Dragon_Orb
26th March 2010, 05:40 AM
Is it honorable to keep something you havent paid for, when that person wants it back?
I have offered the payment that we both agreed to, i fail to see how it's dishonorable. The dishonorable action is the one trying to bully his way out of the deal for greed.

Nasser
26th March 2010, 05:45 AM
In terms that PD 'signed' a contract so he can't actually get his morale back. thats not 100% accurate.
If you want to compare this to a Real Life contract , there is a "a penalty clause" if one of the parties doesn't obey to the contract's deal he pays a penalty for that.

Therefore , I think a fair deal would be giving PD back his "60K - penalty = morale he gets" , and treating his approval would be separate to this case.

ThomasA
26th March 2010, 05:49 AM
I have offered the payment that we both agreed to, i fail to see how it's dishonorable. The dishonorable action is the one trying to bully his way out of the deal for greed.

The conclusion of keeping something that you haven't paid for, when the person wants it back, is considered honorable?

Can it be claimed that PD is motivated by greed when he is expecting his account to be destroyed?



I wanna see how fast a chain like that destroys an account like myne, and instead of showing my damages on LaCN will be showing damages from LaCN to me for fun.

Strike Action 2,801,988,382 Ranked #123
Defensive Action 7,878,413,781 Ranked #33
Spy Rating 44,337,959,436 Ranked #17
Sentry Rating 105,544,866,232 Ranked #21

And remember I do expect those stats to drop rather quickly, no holding back, you just got 60k free morale, rub it in LaCN, rub it in good.

Are you keeping the morale on principle or for your own growth?

Bullying tends to be about power, who has the power in this?

Dragon_Orb
26th March 2010, 06:36 AM
Can it be claimed the PD is motivated by greed when he is expecting his account to be destroyed?

Are you keeping the morale on principle or for your own growth?
If i'm 100% honest it's probably both. I can't afford to give out a lump sum of 60k, it's not as if i received a lump sum of 60k morale either. But it can't be said that i'm keeping it purely for growth either as i'm still offering to pay for it as well.

Powdered_Donuts is hardly poweless. At this time we have 1 person to sab while he has a whole chain. I refuse to bow to a bully, which is exactly what Powdered_Donuts is by going straight into massing and sabbing to get his own way and in this i have the full support of LaCN leadership. Powdered_Donuts made sure that even if we gave him what he wanted that we'd keep him approved (for massing and chaining) and thus he would retaliate on that. He prepared for war before this shit, stocked up on 170k mercs and a huge senty (the sentry might slide as simply a play style but who whores sentry with 170k attack mercs?)... But i still wish to honor my deal and this is why i continue to offer the gold amount i agreed to for the morale.

ThomasA
26th March 2010, 06:41 AM
But it can't be said that i'm keeping it purely for growth either as i'm still offering to pay for it as well.



but you still get the growth, even if you pay for the morale :P The only way you wouldnt get the growth, is if you gave the morale back ;)

PD is more powerful than the whole of LaCN?

Dragon_Orb
26th March 2010, 06:44 AM
but you still get the growth, even if you pay for the morale :P The only way you wouldnt get the growth, is if you gave the morale back ;)
I don't buy morale for fun, it's a big headache is what it is :p The reason i buy it is for growth, it's the reason for the deal in the first place :p

LaCN's policy on bullies is not to give in to them. My end of the deal was to pay for the morale i received and that is what i will do. It honors my end of the agreement. It's not my fault if Powdered_Donuts refuses to take it and i can't force him to but he will not force us to do as he wants.

EDIT: I think i'm getting dizzy from these circles we're going in xD

ThomasA
26th March 2010, 06:46 AM
LaCN's policy on bullies is not to give in to them. My end of the deal was to pay for the morale i received and that is what i will do. It honors my end of the agreement. It's not my fault if Powdered_Donuts refuses to take it and i can't force him to but he will not force us to do as he wants.

Arnt you forcing him to do what you want?

Dragon_Orb
26th March 2010, 06:48 AM
Arnt you forcing him to do what you want?
If i'm forcing him to do anything it would be honor our agreement. We both made the agreement willingly, so it should be honored. There was no lies, falsehoods or anything of the sort and it's not like i made the deal knowing the price would go up immediately after, infact it was only 3 days after the deal was made.

Should i go back and pay everyone i have made deals with so far this age the difference between what i paid them and what i'm paying now? No. What makes Powdered_Donuts so special? Nothing. He just likes to think he is and that he deserves this kind of special treatment.

As i said in the quote below (well alluded to, now i'll be blunt :P), I believe that Powdered_Donuts was hunting for a fight, this is his excuse.


Powdered_Donuts made sure that even if we gave him what he wanted that we'd keep him approved (for massing and chaining) and thus he would retaliate on that. He prepared for war before this shit, stocked up on 170k mercs and a huge senty (the sentry might slide as simply a play style but who whores sentry with 170k attack mercs?)...

ThomasA
26th March 2010, 06:57 AM
Should i go back and pay everyone i have made deals with so far this age the difference between what i paid them and what i'm paying now? No. What makes Powdered_Donuts so special? Nothing. He just likes to think he is and that he deserves this kind of special treatment.

Thats different, because as you point out you paid them. As you get the morale up front, I assume you received the 'goods' also. The 'contracts' as you put it had concluded. What makes this case different, is for what ever reason, you have not paid for the goods, not all the goods have been supplied and the contract had not concluded.

In regards to forcing honor, there are 2 sides to a coin, obviously PD has a different sense of what is honorable.

Dragon_Orb
26th March 2010, 07:09 AM
Thats different, because as you point out you paid them. As you get the morale up front, I assume you received the 'goods' also. The 'contracts' as you put it had concluded. What makes this case different, is for what ever reason, you have not paid for the goods, not all the goods have been supplied and the contract had not concluded.

In regards to forcing honor, there are 2 sides to a coin, obviously PD has a different sense of what is honorable.
In my deal with Powdered_Donuts we both agreed that the sell would be done half way. He had no problems with this arrangement, though he is taking advantage of that now. This was for 2 reasons. First; This simply gave me time to set aside gold for the sell. Second; as i said in 2 previous posts i find paying half way through a deal to be a reasonable compromise to sellers who want the gold first and buyers who want the morale first, meet them half way basically.

ThomasA
26th March 2010, 07:17 AM
In my deal with Powdered_Donuts we both agreed that the sell would be done half way. He had no problems with this arrangement, though he is taking advantage of that now. This was for 2 reasons. First; This simply gave me time to set aside gold for the sell. Second; as i said in 2 previous posts i find paying half way through a deal to be a reasonable compromise to sellers who want the gold first and buyers who want the morale first, meet them half way basically.

There's no advantage to you in this scenario?

For what ever reason, the goods have not been paid for and the contract has not been fufilled. Isnt it normal for the goods to be returned and then appropriate action taken for not fulfilling the contract?

Dragon_Orb
26th March 2010, 07:28 AM
Both sides are equally advantaged and disadvantaged, that's why it's called a compromise :p

And what would be appropriate action for not fulfilling the contract?

I will honor my agreement to pay and that's it, that's what i agreed to and what i will do. I have been fair even in the aftermath of being chain-sabbed, in that I still honor my side of the agreement to pay. There was no issue with the price at the time Powdered_Donuts sent the morale so why should it need to change after the fact?

chaser1
26th March 2010, 07:29 AM
You asked if PD is more powerful than all of LaCN. PD is one of the best war commanders I have encountered in the past. He loves to fight. In fact, in the first post that I had made in this thread, I was laughing. I was honestly shocked that he was coming after us instead of other chains he hates. PD is always prepared for war and never afraid to destroy any chance of a good rank to destroy an entire chain.

LaCN is not afraid of him, but we also understand that fighting him as one account vs a large chain places LaCN at a disadvantage when it comes to a fair balanced fight vs what each side can hurt.

ThomasA
26th March 2010, 07:34 AM
And what would be appropriate action for not fulfilling the contract?


That can be debated, I was just using a generic example to make a point.

Its impossible for you to honor it as:
1) You arnt getting the full morale that was agreed upon in the contract
2) Atm there is no way for you to pay for it.

The contract is never going to be fulfilled, in which case what is the honorable thing to do?


You asked if PD is more powerful than all of LaCN. PD is one of the best war commanders I have encountered in the past. He loves to fight. In fact, in the first post that I had made in this thread, I was laughing. I was honestly shocked that he was coming after us instead of other chains he hates. PD is always prepared for war and never afraid to destroy any chance of a good rank to destroy an entire chain.

LaCN is not afraid of him, but we also understand that fighting him as one account vs a large chain places LaCN at a disadvantage when it comes to a fair balanced fight vs what each side can hurt.

PD begs to differ, he see his account taking heavy damage. It also depends how you measure damage, which is often debated in the war threads. As damage to an alliance as a whole (with more members, so higher sab stats etc) or in proportion to the individual accounts?

Dragon_Orb
26th March 2010, 07:42 AM
I have no intention of sacrificing my account so a seller can be greedy. If you look at it, i work to buy as much morale as i can afford. As i had budgeted a large amount of gold to Powdered_Donuts i slowed down my attempts to solicit more morale deals so i wouldn't overstretch myself. In breaking his deal Powdered_Donuts has now cost me growth as i need to spend time finding another seller to fill the sudden gap in the amount of morale i had coming in.

Powdered_Donuts is not the only one who has been affected by this deal breaking, i've been negatively effected and sending the morale back would cause even more harm. On the other side of the coin:

There was no issue with the price at the time Powdered_Donuts sent the morale so why should it need to change after the fact?
^^ what that says, so why is there now a problem with me giving the sell for that morale as agreed. There was no issue with the price at the time it was sent, so why should it be changed now?

ThomasA
26th March 2010, 07:47 AM
I have no intention of sacrificing my account so a seller can be greedy. If you look at it, i work to buy as much morale as i can afford. As i had budgeted a large amount of gold to Powdered_Donuts i slowed down my attempts to solicit more morale deals so i wouldn't overstretch myself. In breaking his deal Powdered_Donuts has now cost me growth as i need to spend time finding another seller to fill the sudden gap in the amount of morale i had coming in.

Powdered_Donuts is not the only one who has been affected by this deal breaking, i've been negatively effected and sending the morale back would cause even more harm. On the other side of the coin:

^^ what that says, so why is there now a problem with me giving the sell for that morale as agreed, there was no issue with the price at the time it was sent, so why should it be changed now?

Which is why I added the clause to take appropriate action.

I haven't stated whether PD expecting the price change was right or wrong. The point I was arguing is that the deal, has not been completed/will not be completed so what should happen in such a case?

Do you still think he is motivated by greed, despite the value his account will be loosing, from your BF contract?

SleepingDragon
26th March 2010, 07:48 AM
The contract is never going to be fulfilled, in which case what is the honorable thing to do?

The honorable thing to do is give the morale back, as the deal was negated once he opened fire. The real measure of greed is keeping the morale and offering to pay for whatever you got (less than half the agreed morale amount) when it's clear that PD 1) does not want your gold 2) is an out of chain member (with once good LaCN relations) that chose to do business with you and figured he had enough good will to be straight up without fear of being turned on. He's at the mercy of a whole alliance and you've made him an offer he can't refuse...except he does refuse it and you should send the morale back to him. Giving him the gold now just acts as replacing his losses...so he basically sent you 60K morale so you could sab him and replace his weapons? Yea, that makes sense....nawwwt! :imslow:

Either way, LaCN suffers the most since now everyone out of chain (maybe even some in-chain) know how your business model operates now, "Follow the deal no matter what changes occur or get <firetrucked>." PD is lucky he's a better account than most, but smaller players don't have that benefit. :(

Blipje
26th March 2010, 07:55 AM
The honorable thing to do is give the morale back, as the deal was negated once he opened fire. The real measure of greed is keeping the morale and offering to pay for whatever you got (less than half the agreed morale amount) when it's clear that PD 1) does not want your gold 2) is an out of chain member (with once good LaCN relations) that chose to do business with you and figured he had enough good will to be straight up without fear of being turned on. He's at the mercy of a whole alliance and you've made him an offer he can't refuse...except he does refuse it and you should send the morale back to him. Giving him the gold now just acts as replacing his losses...so he basically sent you 60K morale so you could sab him and replace his weapons? Yea, that makes sense....nawwwt! :imslow:

Either way, LaCN suffers the most since now everyone out of chain (maybe even some in-chain) know how your business model operates now, "Follow the deal no matter what changes occur or get <firetrucked>." PD is lucky he's a better account than most, but smaller players don't have that benefit. :(

PD being sabbed and the morale deal are two different cases. PD is being sabbed for chaining LaCN as like any other would be sabbed for something like this.

ThomasA
26th March 2010, 08:00 AM
PD being sabbed and the morale deal are two different cases. PD is being sabbed for chaining LaCN as like any other would be sabbed for something like this.

In which case DO can't keep the morale as 'compensation' for those offences, as was suggested earlier in the thread.

Sterling
26th March 2010, 08:03 AM
I have no intention of sacrificing my account so a seller can be greedy. If you look at it, i work to buy as much morale as i can afford. As i had budgeted a large amount of gold to Powdered_Donuts i slowed down my attempts to solicit more morale deals so i wouldn't overstretch myself. In breaking his deal Powdered_Donuts has now cost me growth as i need to spend time finding another seller to fill the sudden gap in the amount of morale i had coming in.

Powdered_Donuts is not the only one who has been affected by this deal breaking, i've been negatively effected and sending the morale back would cause even more harm. On the other side of the coin:

^^ what that says, so why is there now a problem with me giving the sell for that morale as agreed. There was no issue with the price at the time it was sent, so why should it be changed now?

This is a pretty BS excuse IMO, "costing you growth as you need to find another seller to fill the sudden gap". You still gained soldiers (and gold from those soldiers) and haven't paid anything for it thus far... so trying to look like you're the victim makes me lol in my mouth a little. PD spent a lot of time clicking that morale -- all sellers do. If so dedicated to growth, why not stop being lazy and start clicking for yourself? And I pose this question to all of whom that have been spamming the fuck out of IRC that they're buying morale and have an insignificant amount of clicks done this age. It's because buying morale is easy and takes hardly any effort compared to sitting and clicking.

Since you've already gained soldiers from the morale you were sent and have been gaining more tbg as a result of that, the value lost from returning his morale now is negligible, and only an inconvenience because you don't grow as much as you wanted for free.

Dragon_Orb
26th March 2010, 08:12 AM
In which case DO can't keep the morale as 'compensation' for those offences, as was suggested earlier in the thread.
I have also since offered to honor my side of the agreement and pay, again.


You still gained soldiers (and gold from those soldiers) and haven't paid anything for it thus far
You make it seem like i haven't been trying to pay. I have been.


It's because buying morale is easy and takes hardly any effort compared to sitting and clicking.
If you really think buying morale is so easy go out and do it then. Selling morale is easy, buying morale is a headache. I've been on both sides of the fence and selling morale is by far the much easier side. I've also been screwed over myself plenty with morale prices going up after i've made a deal, i never reneged on a deal. Most other people also don't renege on their deals.

Good to see you're still anti-LaCN Sterling. I've never seen you post anything in a thread where LaCN is in the spotlight, always posting on the negative side though.

ThomasA
26th March 2010, 08:18 AM
If you really think buying morale is so easy go out and do it then. Selling morale is easy, buying morale is a headache. I've been on both sides of the fence and selling morale is by far the much easier side. I've also been screwed over myself plenty with morale prices going up after i've made a deal, i never reneged on a deal. Most other people also don't renege on their deals.


The rewards must outweigh the headaches, otherwise you wouldnt be doing it :P

Dragon_Orb
26th March 2010, 08:20 AM
The rewards must outweigh the headaches, otherwise you wouldnt be doing it :P
Necessary evil lolz

I guess it is beneficial though or everyone wouldn't be trying to do it :p Unless it's just the cool thing to do then w00t! I'm cool :D Or maybe just a nerd :p

Sterling
26th March 2010, 08:24 AM
I have also since offered to honor my side of the agreement and pay, again.


You make it seem like i haven't been trying to pay. I have been.


If you really think buying morale is so easy go out and do it then. Selling morale is easy, buying morale is a headache. I've been on both sides of the fence and selling morale is by far the much easier side. I've also been screwed over myself plenty with morale prices going up after i've made a deal, i never reneged on a deal. Most other people also don't renege on their deals.

Good to see you're still anti-LaCN Sterling. I've never seen you post anything in a thread where LaCN is in the spotlight, always posting on the negative side though.

I agree that sellers finding people to sell morale to is easier than buyers finding people to sell to them, but it takes a lot more actual effort to sit and click for HOURS to sell morale. More effort than making a /timer to spam IRC that you're buying morale, changing your nickname to Buying_Morale, and shunning your alliance members that dare think of selling out of chain. And if it takes so much more to buy morale, then why not skip on trying to buy so much and actually click some for yourself?

Also, because there are so many threads of LaCN in the spotlight right now where I can post all my nice happy thoughts about them?

Dragon_Orb
26th March 2010, 08:29 AM
I agree that sellers finding people to sell morale to is easier than buyers finding people to sell to them, but it takes a lot more actual effort to sit and click for HOURS to sell morale. More effort than making a /timer to spam IRC that you're buying morale, changing your nickname to Buying_Morale, and shunning your alliance members that dare think of selling out of chain. And if it takes so much more to buy morale, then why not skip on trying to buy so much and actually click some for yourself?There is kinda of a limit to how much you can click per day, you know. Now you may not know this, but you can actually buy the morale so you can get more morale than you can by just clicking ;)

Now cause most people can't seem to understand this: [/sarcasm]

Red
26th March 2010, 08:38 AM
There is kinda of a limit to how much you can click per day, you know.

Between 27-28k i do per 24hr period most days,and i know there is more that can b bought ova that same period of 24hrs ;)

SleepingDragon
26th March 2010, 08:40 AM
PD being sabbed and the morale deal are two different cases. PD is being sabbed for chaining LaCN as like any other would be sabbed for something like this.

Eggsactly! Therefore, the morale can simply be given back since it was never paid for (attempts to pay after the fact are worthless). It's a fair, even solution for that issue and PD gets his butt whooped for the chaining issue.

PS: Props to Dragon_Orb for answering to the critics :p

Kryptonite
26th March 2010, 08:58 AM
I am not the one here who is trying to bully my way out of a deal so i can get my morale back try to make more gold. This is pure greed by Powdered_Donuts, trying to bully his way out of a deal he signed on to, for the top price at the time. That is the situation here, Powdered_Donuts trying to bully his way out of a deal due to greed.

I've been screwed over by morale prices in the past, going up after i've made a deal, i imagine pretty much everyone who sells morale has had it happen to them. Get over it, Powdered_Donuts is not special, he doesn't deserve special treatment. He made the deal, he should have followed through, he chose not to, i offered twice to pay him the 3.6bn gold that the 60k morale is worth, according to our deal. That's the best he'll get. I won't send the morale, i won't pay more than we agreed to.

I think this is more LaCN bullying the little guy who wants his morale back since you were trying to rip him off anyway.

JeNnAjAmEsoN
26th March 2010, 09:14 AM
Seriously Orb, when everyone else agrees but LACN about this, dont you even consider the possibility of being "unfair" with PD?.

Both ThomasA and Sleepingdragon use to make truly nice analysis of the situations and they both disagree with you. Why you think everyone else would have acted (or at least said they would have) giving back the morale?

AxEHeaD15
26th March 2010, 09:18 AM
Lol at this btw. A one man army taking on one of the most powerful chains of koc o.O

And I am not picking sides at all, but I do kind of think it is weird that PD left MK for tS partially for the war we were getting in, but now is willing to get his account owned by LaCN/LoP for a morale deal that he had already made and wants revised.

That isn't the way business deals work, if you make a deal, follow through on that deal.

Have fun all.

-AxE

Dragon_Orb
26th March 2010, 09:18 AM
I think this is more LaCN bullying the little guy who wants his morale back since you were trying to rip him off anyway.
He agreed with the price, he was happy with the price, how is that ripping him off? Even if he felt it was not a good price for any future morale he sent due to market changes then it has no effect on the morale he had sent previous to that point.

KrOniKle-^^
26th March 2010, 09:27 AM
Well, i began skipping pages when the age 7 discussion came.. -_-' Soo, sry if anythings wrong here :P

Well, okay PD wanted some more money for the same amount of morale, well, who here decides that? tbh idk, i would say Orbie since he was the one he made the deal with, but that aint completely true is it? Since he raised the price cuz he wanted more morale, PD decides to claim that hes entitled to the extra gold, but then PD only wanted his morale back, and that was after a very short time, soo all i can see here is pure greediness, and no patience at all, he knew that Orbie had has brother waiting, and i guess he could figure out that Spidey wanted to go to bed since it was late (Only a guess tho :P)...

Imo, PD should do what he wants and well, leave him to his fun ?

On another note: Why so much anti-lacn ? (tatoos - wth ? ppl get tatood their irl partners name on them and when they break up then whut?.. Nothing to complain abt imo -_-) This is the only reason i kinda dislikes gua, cuz of irrelevant hate spam posts, which in itself is legit enuf according to the rules, but just plain annoying(just to give an example, i threw 2ppl on ignore while reading this thread only, and i stopped around page 13-14 ish ?)

powdered_donuts
26th March 2010, 09:33 AM
I wanna see how fast a chain like that destroys an account like myne, and instead of showing my damages on LaCN will be showing damages from LaCN to me for fun.

Strike Action 2,801,988,382 Ranked #123
Defensive Action 7,878,413,781 Ranked #33
Spy Rating 44,337,959,436 Ranked #17
Sentry Rating 105,544,866,232 Ranked #21

And remember I do expect those stats to drop rather quickly, no holding back, you just got 60k free morale, rub it in LaCN, rub it in good.

Strike Action 2,917,333,333 Ranked #121
Defensive Action 8,199,905,931 Ranked #35
Spy Rating 45,358,722,008 Ranked #20
Sentry Rating 107,982,273,131 Ranked #21

Last night the only actions I made was 1x10'n Dragon Orb, when I get off of work I've got some stuff to do before hand, but right after that I'll be back on the sabbing train of LaCN .......... unless a certain chain leader gives back what he stole by than. And to be specific on that note in case someone has read this far and doesn't realize what's going on yet, I mean if Dragon Orb sends back my morale. :P Until than sit tight LaCN'ies, I'll be in your logs soon.

SpiderWoman
26th March 2010, 09:41 AM
Yes, I wanted to go to bed also. It was late for me. PD wanted me to pay him the gold. I didn't have 3.6 billion laying around my account, plus I was trained up for the night so I had a lot of men in Defense. It takes me about an hour to get the gold just to train off my men so I can do a sell. PD wanted it done instantly. I told him I didn't have the gold to do it and to wait for Orbie in the morning. Next thing I know is he has massed my account. That is when I washed my hands of him, and posted the contract. I felt I was too near the issue to think rationally about it any more. Up until tht point in time, I had still been trying to solve the problem, between the two bulls.

SleepingDragon
26th March 2010, 10:51 AM
And I am not picking sides at all, but I do kind of think it is weird that PD left MK for tS partially for the war we were getting in, but now is willing to get his account owned by LaCN/LoP for a morale deal that he had already made and wants revised

LaCN changed the price of morale before PD was even 1/2 finished with his batch, but he had still sent 60K. He asked for the new price to be honored, was rejected. He asked for the morale back, was told to get <firetrucked>. He went psycho killer, LaCN contracted him. Now he is showing restraint with his recent sab run and will leave the rest of the chain alone if he gets his morale back?

Just give the guy his morale back before he becomes a headache to the LaCN accounts that can't bear to lose TBG, much less sabbed weapons. PD is doing anti-LaCN clans a favor, so I wouldn't expect him to go away soon when people see they can help him in someway. Every time you try to defend not giving him the morale back, another person decides to sell to SR. It's a bad situation for LaCN all around.

Dragon_Orb
26th March 2010, 06:10 PM
LaCN changed the price of morale before PD was even 1/2 finished with his batch, but he had still sent 60K. He asked for the new price to be honored, was rejected. He asked for the morale back, was told to get <firetrucked>. He went psycho killer, LaCN contracted him. Now he is showing restraint with his recent sab run and will leave the rest of the chain alone if he gets his morale back?
I didn't begrudge him the chance to ask for more gold for the morale he sent in the future (the 100k remaining, infact i offered him the 1.2bn gold extra), however that morale he had been sending previously had been done over 3 days and the price was lower then, so why should a new price affect morale sent before the increase? Especially as the other personally had agreed with the previous price and been happy with it.

c0bra
26th March 2010, 07:08 PM
The honorable thing to do is give the morale back, bla bla bla....(

really?

let us suppose you put your old cellphone for sale on ebay for 100$
i want it and i buy it from you for 100$, obvious we both agree on price.
3 days later you claim your phone back because you found a new buyer who offered 150$ for the same item; when i dont want to give it back , you start smashing my windows , put my house in fire and says :if you dont give it back i will *** your children and grandchildren, especially the ones with tattoos on their bodies.....

powdered_donuts
26th March 2010, 07:23 PM
Dragon Orb, since you were so nice as to write me a letter, I wrote one up for you as well.



Dear Dragon Orb,
Your spies successfully enter Rasta_LaCN's armory undetected, and destroy 650 of the enemy's Dragonskin stockpile. Your spies all return safely to your camp. x2

Your spies successfully enter Cobruler's armory undetected, and destroy 125 of the enemy's Lookout Tower stockpile. Your spies all return safely to your camp. x2

Your spies successfully enter Lord_Syroz's armory undetected, and destroy 150 of the enemy's Chariot stockpile. Your spies all return safely to your camp. x2

Your spies successfully enter Wake's armory undetected, and destroy 175 of the enemy's Chariot stockpile. Your spies all return safely to your camp. x2

Your spies successfully enter rock_of_LaCN's armory undetected, and destroy 135 of the enemy's Chariot stockpile. Your spies all return safely to your camp. x2

Your spies successfully enter hi123_LaCN's armory undetected, and destroy 130 of the enemy's Chariot stockpile. Your spies all return safely to your camp.x2

Your spies successfully enter DeaTHReQueST's armory undetected, and destroy 175 of the enemy's Dragonskin stockpile. Your spies all return safely to your camp. x2

Your spies successfully enter levski's armory undetected, and destroy 131 of the enemy's Nunchaku stockpile. Your spies all return safely to your camp. x2

Your spies successfully enter meelmoss's armory undetected, and destroy 44 of the enemy's Invisibility Shield stockpile. Your spies all return safely to your camp.x2

Your spies successfully enter RealMcCoy_LaCN's armory undetected, and destroy 116 of the enemy's Chariot stockpile. Your spies all return safely to your camp.x2

Your spies successfully enter makavelli's armory undetected, and destroy 103 of the enemy's Chariot stockpile. Your spies all return safely to your camp.x2

Your spies successfully enter Speechless's armory undetected, and destroy 100 of the enemy's Dragonskin stockpile. Your spies all return safely to your camp.x2

Your spies successfully enter BlackThunder's armory undetected, and destroy 500 of the enemy's Dragonskin stockpile. Your spies all return safely to your camp.x2

Your spies successfully enter ICMF's armory undetected, and destroy 40 of the enemy's Invisibility Shield stockpile. Your spies all return safely to your camp.x2

Your spies successfully enter Tron_LaCN's armory undetected, and destroy 43 of the enemy's Invisibility Shield stockpile. Your spies all return safely to your camp.x2

Your spies successfully enter ElfBowler155's armory undetected, and destroy 200 of the enemy's Dragonskin stockpile. Your spies all return safely to your camp.x2

Your spies successfully enter djoul52's armory undetected, and destroy 150 of the enemy's Dragonskin stockpile. Your spies all return safely to your camp.x2

Your spies successfully enter Rancho_LaCN's armory undetected, and destroy 35 of the enemy's Invisibility Shield stockpile. Your spies all return safely to your camp.x2

Your spies successfully enter Stripper's armory undetected, and destroy 34 of the enemy's Invisibility Shield stockpile. Your spies all return safely to your camp.x2

Your spies successfully enter daisychaindarling's armory undetected, and destroy 150 of the enemy's Dragonskin stockpile. Your spies all return safely to your camp.x2

Your spies successfully enter Blipje's armory undetected, and destroy 150 of the enemy's Dragonskin stockpile. Your spies all return safely to your camp.x2

Your spies successfully enter Prelude_of_Madness's armory undetected, and destroy 54 of the enemy's Nunchaku stockpile. Your spies all return safely to your camp.x2

Your spies successfully enter Cotillion_LaCN's armory undetected, and destroy 23 of the enemy's Invisibility Shield stockpile. Your spies all return safely to your camp.

Your spies successfully enter SonOfGod_LaCN's armory undetected, and destroy 150 of the enemy's Dragonskin stockpile. Your spies all return safely to your camp.x2

Your spies successfully enter Aloula_DBZ's armory undetected, and destroy 120 of the enemy's Dragonskin stockpile. Your spies all return safely to your camp.x2

Your spies successfully enter FunYunZ's armory undetected, and destroy 100 of the enemy's Chariot stockpile. Your spies all return safely to your camp.x2

Your spies successfully enter TwIzTiD_LoTuS's armory undetected, and destroy 16 of the enemy's Invisibility Shield stockpile. Your spies all return safely to your campx2

Your spies successfully enter TheWall's armory undetected, and destroy 15 of the enemy's Invisibility Shield stockpile. Your spies all return safely to your camp.x2

Your spies successfully enter Skyros's armory undetected, and destroy 111 of the enemy's Dragonskin stockpile. Your spies all return safely to your camp.x2

Your spies successfully enter WierdFishee's armory undetected, and destroy 14 of the enemy's Invisibility Shield stockpile. Your spies all return safely to your camp.x2

Your spies successfully enter s-snake's armory undetected, and destroy 15 of the enemy's Invisibility Shield stockpile. Your spies all return safely to your campx2

Your spies successfully enter betterbecareful's armory undetected, and destroy 15 of the enemy's Invisibility Shield stockpile. Your spies all return safely to your camp.x2

Your spies successfully enter chrisby's armory undetected, and destroy 52 of the enemy's Chariot stockpile. Your spies all return safely to your camp.x2

Your spies successfully enter Krekkertje's armory undetected, and destroy 50 of the enemy's Dragonskin stockpile. Your spies all return safely to your camp.
x2

Your spies successfully enter ImbaChief's armory undetected, and destroy 63 of the enemy's Dragonskin stockpile. Your spies all return safely to your camp.x2

Your spies successfully enter nhuk82's armory undetected, and destroy 77 of the enemy's Chariot stockpile. Your spies all return safely to your camp.
x2

Your spies successfully enter Dragstor's armory undetected, and destroy 30 of the enemy's Nunchaku stockpile. Your spies all return safely to your camp.x2

54 seconds ago Screwdriver_LaCN 134,138 Gold stolen 37 313 138,975,374 1,967,492,695
57 seconds ago Screwdriver_LaCN 194,234 Gold stolen 20 168 102,224,529 2,016,862,720
59 seconds ago Screwdriver_LaCN 165,096 Gold stolen 20 168 109,789,913 2,140,790,034
1 minute ago Screwdriver_LaCN 214,303 Gold stolen 20 168 100,064,680 2,179,430,793
1 minute ago Screwdriver_LaCN 208,252 Gold stolen 17 144 116,902,422 2,085,071,309
1 minute ago Screwdriver_LaCN 174,424 Gold stolen 29 241 127,100,192 2,048,650,065
1 minute ago Screwdriver_LaCN 205,931 Gold stolen 29 241 120,183,757 1,777,174,227
1 minute ago Screwdriver_LaCN 163,674 Gold stolen 41 338 108,172,985 2,092,431,642
1 minute ago Screwdriver_LaCN 179,149 Gold stolen 32 266 129,977,320 2,151,436,596
1 minute ago Screwdriver_LaCN 159,727 Gold stolen 29 241 132,117,255 1,858,873,432

This was your fault, you did this.

Sincerely,
PD-thatoneguyintS


It's awfully unkind of you to go around getting your fellow members sabbed. And you know what to do to stop it, just give back what's myne.

ThomasA
26th March 2010, 07:31 PM
really?

let us suppose you put your old cellphone for sale on ebay for 100$
i want it and i buy it from you for 100$, obvious we both agree on price.
3 days later you claim your phone back because you found a new buyer who offered 150$ for the same item; when i dont want to give it back , you start smashing my windows , put my house in fire and says :if you dont give it back i will *** your children and grandchildren, especially the ones with tattoos on their bodies.....

1 the cellphone hasnt been paid for
2 you have since gone with your buddies, you start smashing his windows , put his house in fire and so on

One side's honor shouldn't have anything to do with how the other side behaves.

saulot
26th March 2010, 07:36 PM
1 the cellphone hasnt been paid for

becase he decided he didnt want the gold for the morale so far

if orb refused to pay it wuld be a different situation

ThomasA
26th March 2010, 07:40 PM
becase he decided he didnt want the gold for the morale so far

if orb refused to pay it wuld be a different situation

my point being, what should happen to the morale as the transaction was never completed? who does it belong to? PD clicked it, DO hasnt paid for it, so what should happen to it?

If DO had paid for it, it would be more clear cut.

saulot
26th March 2010, 07:43 PM
considering that its PD who broke the deal and dont want to get payed i think its clear enough that PD is just greedy and wants to start trouble

UMIST
26th March 2010, 07:45 PM
thomas Orbie was never given the chance to pay for it

Dragon_Orb
26th March 2010, 07:52 PM
Powdered_Donuts sabs alot of innocent people and also the people who tried to help him and so many people go "powdered_donuts the hero", yet if i turn around now and say "due to powdered_donuts continued chain-sabbing, we will now sab everyone in powdered_donuts chain" most of those same people would say "oh no, the big bad LaCN is sabbing innocent people!". Despite that fact that's exactly what is being done to us. This would be called a hypocritical double standard :)

Note that i'm not saying we will be doing that, i'm just saying it as a statement.

ThomasA
26th March 2010, 07:54 PM
thomas Orbie was never given the chance to pay for it

Yes, I understand that, but that doesn't alter the question, what should happen to the morale?

Is it honorable in conclusion, to keep something you havent paid for and the person wants back? A simple yes or no this question would help me better understand LaCN's position.

So far I have avoided going into the specifics of who is right and who is wrong, just posing questions which should be considered when trying to resolve this.

saulot
26th March 2010, 08:00 PM
considering that they had a deal and dragon_orb wants to honor that deal and pay for what have been sent so far but not alowed to do so i think that in this case the answer to your question is yes thomas

ThomasA
26th March 2010, 08:04 PM
considering that they had a deal and dragon_orb wants to honor that deal and pay for what have been sent so far but not alowed to do so i think that in this case the answer to your question is yes thomas

Is that your personal view or LaCN's official?

saulot
26th March 2010, 08:05 PM
my personal
i dont have the power to give any LaCN official answer

Lord_Ezek
26th March 2010, 08:20 PM
my point being, what should happen to the morale as the transaction was never completed? who does it belong to? PD clicked it, DO hasnt paid for it, so what should happen to it?

If DO had paid for it, it would be more clear cut.

My stand on this is not to give back the morale nor pay for it.

PD's 60k morale is no longer an issue here when he decided to resort to chaining. Convert the amount of weapons he sab to Gold and he got more. Reason why he decided to chain was so he can get back the gold that he wanted for the morale.

The damage he has caused is enough reason for him to let go of his 60k morale.

But Orb still wants to finish the deal, thats why he still ooffered the gold to fulfill his side of the deal.

Just MY thought on this and not from the whole LaCN.


BTW,

Can you just do a list of your questions and post it. Your posts are starting to annoy me. Just make 1 post with all your questions in it.

ThomasA
26th March 2010, 08:28 PM
My stand on this is not to give back the morale nor pay for it.

PD's 60k morale is no longer an issue here when he decided to resort to chaining. Convert the amount of weapons he sab to Gold and he got more. Reason why he decided to chain was so he can get back the gold that he wanted for the morale.

The damage he has caused is enough reason for him to let go of his 60k morale.

But Orb still wants to finish the deal, thats why he still ooffered the gold to fulfill his side of the deal.

Just MY thought on this and not from the whole LaCN.


BTW,

Can you just do a list of your questions and post it. Your posts are starting to annoy me. Just make 1 post with all your questions in it.

LaCN has already agreed that his chaining is a separate issue and covered by your standard BF contract. If you hadn't have opened that, you might have more of a case to use the morale for compensation.

Dragon_Orb
26th March 2010, 08:32 PM
LaCN has already agreed that his chaining is a separate issue and covered by your standard BF contract. If you hadn't have opened that, you might have more of a case to use the morale for compensation.
I agreed to treat them seperate, Powdered_Donuts put them together again by saying that me sabbing him for the contract negated my offer to pay for the morale. You may believe they're seperate Thomas. I may have treated them as seperate. Powdered_Donuts decided that they belong together now.


http://dragonorb.lacnfamily.com/f/PD-Offer.jpg

I've said it over and over I want my morale back, here is what I find funny:

TheGodFather_LaCN Our Deal, Unfinished 2 hours ago

I considered it........

25 minutes ago TheGodFather_LaCN Sabotage 1 0

reconsidered pretty quick to

4 seconds ago TheGodFather_LaCN Attack defended 41 1,434 170,442,688,829 1,907,645,316
6 seconds ago TheGodFather_LaCN Attack defended 57 1,677 160,492,566,713 2,163,107,924
7 seconds ago TheGodFather_LaCN Attack defended 45 1,440 164,174,801,369 2,014,117,128
9 seconds ago TheGodFather_LaCN Attack defended 103 3,616 174,447,760,889 1,959,252,180
11 seconds ago TheGodFather_LaCN Attack defended 50 1,691 164,730,537,749 1,941,009,111
13 seconds ago TheGodFather_LaCN Attack defended 93 3,153 182,481,783,901 2,144,476,079
15 seconds ago TheGodFather_LaCN Attack defended 74 2,433 186,559,663,774 2,258,911,424
17 seconds ago TheGodFather_LaCN Attack defended 52 2,195 204,526,527,812 1,929,124,598
19 seconds ago TheGodFather_LaCN Attack defended 96 3,429 180,565,740,348 2,026,472,706
26 seconds ago TheGodFather_LaCN Attack defended 52 2,210 205,542,784,680 1,946,480,466

No counter-offer, no reply besides this, stating that the contract and the morale deal have been tied together.

ThomasA
26th March 2010, 08:35 PM
I agreed to treat them seperate, Powdered_Donuts put them together again by saying that me sabbing him for the contract negated my offer to pay for the morale. You may believe they're seperate Thomas. I may have treated them as seperate. Powdered_Donuts decided that they belong together now.

I thought it had been agreed that they are related, but however separate issues.

The moment you opened a standard contract with no mention of compensation to resolve, it could be argued, you decided to treat them separately.

Dragon_Orb
26th March 2010, 08:42 PM
Neither can be resolved while both parties are treating them in different ways. I agreed to treat them seperately, i sent an offer to resolve the morale deal issue. I also sabbed according to the contract as that was supposed to be a seperate issue.

The reply from Powdered_Donuts was that he would not accept my offer of resolving the morale deal because of the contract.

I treated them seperate, he treated them together. We've got a double standard coming in again. I have to treat them seperate but he can treat them together? It can't work. Either we both need to treat them together or we both need to treat them seperate.

Also i believe that up to this point LaCN has shown amazing restrain. For 2 days our members, who are all innocent, are being chained here but we have restrained ourselves from sabbing the innocents under Powdered_Donuts. I believe most alliances who are chain-sabbed would retaliate themselves and chain the offender, yes?

powdered_donuts
26th March 2010, 08:47 PM
Neither can be resolved while both parties are treating them in different ways. I agreed to treat them seperately, i sent an offer to resolve the morale deal issue. I also sabbed according to the contract as that was supposed to be a seperate issue.

The reply from Powdered_Donuts was that he would not accept my offer of resolving the morale deal because of the contract.

I treated them seperate, he treated them together. We've got a double standard coming in again. I have to treat them seperate but he can treat them together? It can't work. Either we both need to treat them together or we both need to treat them seperate.

Of course they are related, think about it, if you don't send me the morale back I won't stop sabbing, if you do I'll stop. How hard is that to understand? I never once said they weren't related, I wouldn't have started sabbing and chaining if you had sent it back in the first place when the deal was broke.

ThomasA
26th March 2010, 08:47 PM
Neither can be resolved while both parties are treating them in different ways. I agreed to treat them seperately, i sent an offer to resolve the morale deal issue. I also sabbed according to the contract as that was supposed to be a seperate issue.

The reply from Powdered_Donuts was that he would not accept my offer of resolving the morale deal because of the contract.

I treated them seperate, he treated them together. We've got a double standard coming in again. I have to treat them seperate but he can treat them together? It can't work. Either we both need to treat them together or we both need to treat them seperate.

There's a difference between the cause of the issue and dealing with the issues separately. Your BF contract is dealing with his chaining, whatever the cause be it the morale deal or cause you have blonde hair, his actions and your actions in response are covered by your BF contract.

Dragon_Orb
26th March 2010, 08:49 PM
Of course they are related, think about it, if you don't send me the morale back I won't stop sabbing, if you do I'll stop. How hard is that to understand? I never once said they weren't related, I wouldn't have started sabbing and chaining if you had sent it back in the first place when the deal was broke.
Answer this for me please Powdered_Donuts.

I didn't begrudge him the chance to ask for more gold for the morale he sent in the future (the 100k remaining, infact i offered him the 1.2bn gold extra), however that morale he had been sending previously had been done over 3 days and the price was lower then, so why should a new price affect morale sent before the increase? Especially as the other personally had agreed with the previous price and been happy with it.


There's a difference between the cause of the issue and dealing with the issues separately. Your BF contract is dealing with his chaining, whatever the cause be it the morale deal or cause you have blonde hair, his actions and your actions in response are covered by your BF contract.What i'm saying, is that i tried to deal with the it seperately but the other side refused to do so. I tried to deal with the morale deal issue on it's own, the other party refused to do that.

ThomasA
26th March 2010, 08:56 PM
What i'm saying, is that i tried to deal with the it seperately but the other side refused to do so. I tried to deal with the morale deal issue on it's own, the other party refused to do that.

Caus the morale deal remains unresolved does not necessarily mean you can add it as a resolution to the other issue.

what would have happened if he did take your offer and carried on chaining? the chaining would still need to be dealt with.

Dragon_Orb
26th March 2010, 09:01 PM
Caus the morale deal remains unresolved does not necessarily mean you can add it as a resolution to the other issue.

what would have happened if he did take your offer and carried on chaining? the chaining would still need to be dealt with.
He would stay approved for chaining, you really needed to ask? Powdered_Donuts has sabbed many, many innocent people. There's 2 way we can deal with it: 1. He stays approved until the losses are equal to damage or 2. We chain him in retaliation. Personally i believe that him staying approved is the fairest, don't you? ;) I would like to avoid sabbing the innocent people in his chain but there comes a point where we must stand up for our innocent members as well, regardless of what that means.

EDIT: In my offer i did not say that the offer i made to resolve the morale deal issue was tied to the contract, i kept it seperate. Read the message. I offer him the payment for the morale, i say nothing about the contract at all except that i make this offer even in light of his actions against our innocent members.

ThomasA
26th March 2010, 09:11 PM
He would stay approved for chaining, you really needed to ask? Powdered_Donuts has sabbed many, many innocent people. There's 2 way we can deal with it: 1. He stays approved until the losses are equal to damage or 2. We chain him in retaliation. Personally i believe that him staying approved is the fairest, don't you? ;) I would like to avoid sabbing the innocent people in his chain but there comes a point where we must stand up for our innocent members as well, regardless of what that means.

EDIT: In my offer i did not say that the offer i made to resolve the morale deal issue was tied to the contract, i kept it seperate. Read the message. I offer him the payment for the morale, i say nothing about the contract at all except that i make this offer even in light of his actions against our innocent members.

Then Im confused what is being debated, if you agree they are separate issues.

Now we can put his chaining to the side as another matter, how do you resolve the issue of you having morale you have not paid for?

In conclusion of the matter, is it honorable to keep the morale despite not paying for it?

yes I understand you have tried to pay for it, but if this does not happen, does this give you the right to keep it and is this the honorable action?

out of interest what would LaCN's position be if he had walked away after agreeing to the contract but without sending any morale? how would this have been handled?

what complicates this, is something was sent without being paid for.

Dragon_Orb
26th March 2010, 09:30 PM
Then Im confused what is being debated, if you agree they are separate issues.
I said i have treated it seperately. Powdered_Donuts refuses to.

TheGodFather_LaCN Our Deal, Unfinished 2 hours ago

I considered it........

25 minutes ago TheGodFather_LaCN Sabotage 1 0

reconsidered pretty quick to

<mass logs>


Now we can put his chaining to the side as another matter, how do you resolve the issue of you having morale you have not paid for?

In conclusion of the matter, is it honorable to keep the morale despite not paying for it?

yes I understand you have tried to pay for it, but if this does not happen, does this give you the right to keep it and is this the honorable action?
See below.

I didn't begrudge him the chance to ask for more gold for the morale he sent in the future (the 100k remaining, infact i offered him the 1.2bn gold extra), however that morale he had been sending previously had been done over 3 days and the price was lower then, so why should a new price affect morale sent before the increase? Especially as the other personally had agreed with the previous price and been happy with it.
This issue is over a price increase. As i said there, even if future morale is at a higher rate, why should the higher price be back-dated to before it was even set? Powdered_Donuts came complaining as soon as i set a higher price, so the morale he had previously sent he was happy with the price. Why should a new price be back-dated? This is why i won't send the morale back. It is pure greed. Nothing else. I will pay at the agreed rate.

DrunKnGoblin
26th March 2010, 09:42 PM
Powdered_Donuts sabs alot of innocent people and also the people who tried to help him and so many people go "powdered_donuts the hero", yet if i turn around now and say "due to powdered_donuts continued chain-sabbing, we will now sab everyone in powdered_donuts chain" most of those same people would say "oh no, the big bad LaCN is sabbing innocent people!". Despite that fact that's exactly what is being done to us. This would be called a hypocritical double standard :)

Note that i'm not saying we will be doing that, i'm just saying it as a statement.

I would say you are more then within your Rights to start chaining, I would have as soon as i was chained.
I am not taking sides, But PD really shouldnt get his morale back, He should have taken the 60mil/k for the first 60 and then taken his other 100k to some1 who will look after you and treat you as a friend not 'just business'.


ThomasA you sound like a broken record, I think DO has been more then reasonable, Offering to pay him what they agreed for the 60k morale, even after copping billions of dollars of losses and and damages.
Are you Honestly telling me ThomasA that you would send his morale back after he sabbed and chained you?
If so, Would u like to be my new punching bag, You must be real easy to push around :)

Anyway Go PD!!!!!!
LaCN, Sack up and Chain!

your unbias Friend
DrunKnGoblin

ThomasA
26th March 2010, 09:55 PM
Are you Honestly telling me ThomasA that you would send his morale back after he sabbed and chained you?


LaCN are dealing with that differently, they could sab/chain for the rest of the age if they wanted to (whether this would be an overaction, you could debate) LaCN have a contract on him, so arnt exactly being push overs. I personally dont get involved in morale buying/selling, so wouldnt be in such a situation.

and yes I do feel LaCN are being clever to ignore some of my queries to them and restating stuff which im not disputing.

and for the record, I have not stated who I support, if anyone.

I had given it a break replying to DO, despite wanting him to directly answer the queries in the above post :P

Dragon_Orb
26th March 2010, 10:00 PM
LaCN are dealing with that differently, they could sab/chain for the rest of the age if they wanted to (whether this would be an overaction, you could debate) LaCN have a contract on him, so arnt exactly being push overs.

and yes I do feel LaCN are being clever to ignore some of my queries to them and restating stuff which im not disputing.

and for the record, I have not stated who I support, if anyone.
I actually thought that i had answered your question. You asked if i felt it honorable what i'm doing:


I didn't begrudge him the chance to ask for more gold for the morale he sent in the future (the 100k remaining, infact i offered him the 1.2bn gold extra), however that morale he had been sending previously had been done over 3 days and the price was lower then, so why should a new price affect morale sent before the increase? Especially as the other personally had agreed with the previous price and been happy with it.
This issue is over a price increase. As i said there, even if future morale is at a higher rate, why should the higher price be back-dated to before it was even set? Powdered_Donuts came complaining as soon as i set a higher price, so the morale he had previously sent he was happy with the price. Why should a new price be back-dated? This is why i won't send the morale back. It is pure greed. Nothing else. I will pay at the agreed rate.
I see no dishonor in keeping the morale, for the reasons stated there. It's not as if i've taken the morale and tried to run off without paying. I honestly think it's fair that he accept the price that morale was sent for. It was sent for the 60m/k and the whole time that's what i've been offering to pay for it. When the price went up he wanted me to send it back so he could sell it to me again at the newer, higher price? Get real.

I would also point out that i'm the only one who's made any compromise in this situation. At the start of all this i said that Powdered_Donuts could break the deal without consequence, simply be paid for what he had sent. I have seen 0 compromise from powdered_donuts to try and resolve this.

saulot
26th March 2010, 10:04 PM
and yes I do feel LaCN are being clever to ignore some of my queries to them and restating stuff which im not disputing.

and for the record, I have not stated who I support, if anyone.

true but it sounds very much like you are suporting PD

and you are saying over and over again that its seperate buissnes and PD and DO keeps saying its not (im asuming thats what you mean by stuff which your not disputing. )

ThatOneDudeWhoDidThat
26th March 2010, 11:32 PM
K lets see....


powdered_donuts
2 hours ago TheGodFather_LaCN 20000
1 day ago TheGodFather_LaCN 20000
2 days ago TheGodFather_LaCN 20000

Yep, that's 60k morale I've sent to TGF in no more than 3 days time. I was told just today his price went up ot 85m per k


Dragon_Orb
Full Details:
The deal i had arranged with Powdered_Donuts was for 160k morale, 9.4bn gold. That was the price at the time and he was happy to make the deal. Then when I raised my price he came complaining.

Lets google what a contract/deal is.


"When most people sign a contract, they expect to honor the terms "OF"<= yes "OF" the contract, and they hope that the other party will do so as well." ; "An agreement between parties." ; "a particular instance of buying or selling; "it was a package deal" ; "sign: engage by written agreement"


We get the idea now. You make a deal/contract for said terms, you follow through, no and ifs or buts. PD agreed to the deal, and was also happy about it. So a deal was made for 160k for 9.4bil. gold.


powdered_donuts
after I sent 60k morale he changes his price and offers 85m per k for deals over 70k morale. I still had 100k morale to send him. Is that hard to understand?

Not at all hard to understand. Only thing wrong with this picture is you still had 100k to go to finish the contract YOU AGREED to. the contract simply was 160k morale. NOT 60k for said price, and then 100k for new price. 160k total for 9.4bil. Simple as that.


Truewind
So just to be clear, a contract was made and later on one of the parties wanted to break the contract.

Yes, in this case PD was the one to break the contract.


Truewind
Also, giving him 1.2 billion, of the 4 billion he wanted, is offering less than a third of what he can get.

The counter offer you made him wasn't much of an offer really. It was better to just break the contract. Most everyone else would do the same.

I like how you said "he wanted," and "what he can get." Like we said, a contract is a contract. "he wanted" the 9.4bil for the 160k morale HE AGREED to. That's that. then you say that him giving 1.2 billion is offering less than a third of what he can get. You're wrong again. PD would be getting 1.2bil MORE than what the contract stated. I also have to disagree with "it was better to just break the contract."

You don't just break contracts to break them. Its like breaking the rules, you break a rule, you suffer consequences.

Moving on.


powdered_donuts
So i messaged Spiderwoman when I heard this news and exclaimed that I was getting screwed in this ordeal. I messaged Orb and Red telling them the same.

Don't know where or how you were getting screwed in this ordeal, this ordeal being the contract, which you happened to agree and was happy about.


Slasher-X
Not sure what's unfair about this. If you go to the mall and buy a T-shirt for 40 euros, then go there again next week and see there's a sale and your shirt now only costs 10 euros, then you dont go beserk on the salesman either. Its just bad luck. Same can be said for your case. You made a deal, then some days later it would have been more profitable for you to make that deal, but that doesn't matter.

100% agree with this. which brings me to my next quote.


UMIST
Truewind you are just not making sense. Selling morale is like doing business. For example , my dad has just sold a house for about $1.1m. Now lets say that in 1 year the cost goes up to $2m. Then should my dad go to the buyers and ask for $0.9m? No that would be stupid

The price of morale will always go up. If he wanted a better deal then he should have waited a few days.


A few days is all it took, but then again, after another few days it most likely would have went up again. So like above, it doesn't matter when the contract was made.

Now PD decided to break the contract and refuse the payment which DO had offered:


Dragon_Orb
60k morale, 3.6bn value in the deal we made. I said he would be paid. He decided rather than get paid that he would mass me, mass all the other large accounts in LaCN and sab everyone he could. After that he expects us to pay him? Before he did that i was fully willing to pay him the gold that was owed for the morale he had sent, according to the deal we had made, without complaint (even if he decided to bail on the rest of the deal).

Seems fair to me, It's still within the value of the contract, minus the differences of the 100k.


powdered_donuts
Absolutely not, he should have given my morale back when I asked for it the first time.


Dragon_Orb
Even though the deal had been made and i didn't have to offer <anything>, i offered to give him 10.6bn gold, 1.2bn (13%) extra! But no, not good enough. Mind you at the time my brother had shown up so i had been making him wait while i talked. After making my brother wait 10 minutes i had enough and literally told Powdered_Donuts to get <firetrucked>.


This was before the blackpowder missiles and chariots went bursting in the air, and the Nunchaku's slicing through innocent peoples homes. If PD had only been PATIENT.

Obviously, Real Life is more important than a text based game. But to some people, like PD, maybe the text based games are more important than life, and couldn't chill, and be patient for a little while.


Dragon_Orb
He refused the payment of gold and did these actions. That was his choice.

ThomasA
It could still be argued you have something, which technically doesnt belong to you as it has not been paid for.

As I said before, what is the honorable thing to do? or is honor irrelevant?

Dragon_Orb
It is not rightfully yours. Just because you want it does not mean you are entitled to it. You agreed to the deal, you sent the morale, you are no longer entitled to it. As i said, you were entitled to the payment, which you refused and by your damaging actions the rest of the LaCN leadership will decide whether they feel you have forfeited that entitlement, as i am too involed.

Actually, it does belong to DO, because the contract states he gets the morale, and he pays for the morale. He received the morale, then he offered to pay, which was refused, then offered extra because the seller was upset, still refused, and went ahead and chained and massed. Also being honorable in this situation has nothing to do with it, as damages have been caused.

Which brings me to my next quote.


Dragon_Orb
Where is the honor from what has been done to LaCN? The excuse for doing it was that he was not going to be paid, that was never the case.


Moving on.


Dragon_Orb
Powdered_Donuts sabs alot of innocent people and also the people who tried to help him and so many people go "powdered_donuts the hero", yet if i turn around now and say "due to powdered_donuts continued chain-sabbing, we will now sab everyone in powdered_donuts chain" most of those same people would say "oh no, the big bad LaCN is sabbing innocent people!". Despite that fact that's exactly what is being done to us. This would be called a hypocritical double standard

Note that i'm not saying we will be doing that, i'm just saying it as a statement.

You know what, I kind of like this idea. Here the problem is a morale deal between TWO PEOPLE. Something goes wrong, one person decides to bring the whole chain into it, because of it. Innocent people get hurt. A war is a possibility, since TS hasn't kicked him, and his officers are still under him. So why not bring in the OTHER chain, and start hurting them as well. a fair deal is a fair deal. I'll end this here.

powdered_donuts
26th March 2010, 11:36 PM
I wanna see how fast a chain like that destroys an account like myne, and instead of showing my damages on LaCN will be showing damages from LaCN to me for fun.



7 minutes ago BlackThunder raid 2,278,235 Gold stolen 1,208 130 19,238,045,628 6,604,802,199
35 minutes ago TheGodFather_LaCN attack 3,478,915 Gold stolen 34,398 52 6,487,984,512 6,010,105,897
48 minutes ago Spiderwoman_LaCN raid Attack defended 35,602 124 4,242,848,938 5,011,653,864
1 hour ago GodFist raid Attack defended 48 6 599,616,478 5,453,567,955
2 hours ago nOObie12 raid Attack defended 116 2 101,229,430 5,797,284,472
2 hours ago nOObie12 raid Attack defended 101 2 100,834,825 5,597,135,587
2 hours ago nOObie12 raid Attack defended 62 1 112,633,758 5,615,995,766
2 hours ago nOObie12 raid Attack defended 86 1 103,022,625 6,176,689,812
2 hours ago nOObie12 raid Attack defended 54 1 107,747,574 6,176,692,825
2 hours ago nOObie12 raid Attack defended 86 1 107,958,461 5,855,848,827
2 hours ago nOObie12 raid Attack defended 71 1 106,645,555 5,524,396,869
2 hours ago nOObie12 raid Attack defended 111 2 107,972,533 6,097,053,751
2 hours ago nOObie12 raid Attack defended 103 2 105,414,139 5,764,625,982
2 hours ago nOObie12 raid Attack defended 55 0 95,519,027 6,097,036,186
2 hours ago Stryker_LaCN raid Attack defended 193 9 475,545,435 5,783,956,046
2 hours ago Stryker_LaCN raid Attack defended 265 11 475,866,633 6,127,737,651
2 hours ago Stryker_LaCN raid Attack defended 106 6 504,779,587 4,583,736,820
2 hours ago Stryker_LaCN raid Attack defended 231 11 514,389,052 5,832,662,270
2 hours ago Stryker_LaCN raid Attack defended 88 4 479,011,064 5,627,382,983
2 hours ago Stryker_LaCN raid Attack defended 160 7 506,362,007 5,749,560,019
2 hours ago Stryker_LaCN raid Attack defended 143 6 535,774,268 6,786,892,521
2 hours ago Stryker_LaCN raid Attack defended 215 9 472,032,317 6,118,593,876
2 hours ago Stryker_LaCN raid Attack defended 89 4 546,071,271 5,561,482,060
2 hours ago Stryker_LaCN raid Attack defended 180 8 529,627,880 6,263,381,660
3 hours ago letmeride raid Attack defended 21 1 80,452,828 5,720,865,873
3 hours ago letmeride raid Attack defended 18 1 74,840,944 5,047,926,633
3 hours ago letmeride raid Attack defended 28 2 86,175,094 5,177,377,548
3 hours ago letmeride raid Attack defended 31 1 81,499,820 6,323,902,128
3 hours ago letmeride raid Attack defended 31 2 83,526,610 5,655,965,361
3 hours ago letmeride raid Attack defended 31 1 75,720,820 6,334,551,214
3 hours ago letmeride raid Attack defended 28 1 82,168,306 5,656,068,127
3 hours ago letmeride raid Attack defended 17 1 88,895,630 5,429,888,404
3 hours ago letmeride raid Attack defended 15 0 90,720,486 6,015,410,721
3 hours ago letmeride raid Attack defended 15 0 86,460,670 6,149,483,220
3 hours ago rock_of_LaCN raid Attack defended 569 28 1,380,808,821 5,918,750,845
3 hours ago rock_of_LaCN raid Attack defended 334 19 1,555,981,832 5,692,130,021
3 hours ago rock_of_LaCN raid Attack defended 678 41 1,506,937,329 5,124,807,018
3 hours ago Depletion raid Attack defended 5 2 165,289,851 6,718,883,543
4 hours ago daisychaindarling raid Attack defended 1,291 21 1,787,831,272 5,799,768,621
4 hours ago daisychaindarling raid Attack defended 1,863 41 2,103,862,579 5,157,341,987
4 hours ago daisychaindarling raid Attack defended 1,313 24 1,905,229,562 5,597,431,153
4 hours ago daisychaindarling raid Attack defended 2,665 51 1,963,678,628 5,384,558,605
4 hours ago daisychaindarling raid Attack defended 956 15 1,877,018,240 5,943,475,317
4 hours ago daisychaindarling raid Attack defended 2,519 37 1,873,421,069 6,507,447,149
4 hours ago daisychaindarling raid Attack defended 2,752 43 1,794,262,130 5,858,902,716
5 hours ago daisychaindarling raid Attack defended 985 15 1,954,945,088 6,412,739,536
5 hours ago saulot raid Attack defended 456 10 435,483,131 6,061,184,210
5 hours ago saulot raid Attack defended 336 8 430,101,830 5,654,758,064
5 hours ago saulot raid Attack defended 367 11 522,137,328 5,343,855,779
5 hours ago saulot raid Attack defended 369 11 486,407,585 5,147,555,669
5 hours ago saulot raid Attack defended 184 5 451,209,197 5,379,921,091
5 hours ago saulot raid Attack defended 216 5 425,569,750 5,712,302,809
5 hours ago saulot raid Attack defended 247 5 423,192,206 5,830,047,930
5 hours ago saulot raid Attack defended 217 5 443,651,253 5,515,540,791
5 hours ago saulot raid Attack defended 373 9 417,823,707 5,416,386,141
5 hours ago saulot raid Attack defended 437 15 516,326,798 4,891,496,364
16 hours ago BlackThunder attack 61,131,274 Gold stolen 1,351 178 16,516,230,455 5,569,343,343
19 hours ago Andrei attack 88,802,536 Gold stolen 760 59 24,828,589,822 5,800,734,289
22 hours ago Dark-Link raid Attack defended 278 20 725,148,157 5,800,723,819
1 day ago coldblueblade raid Attack defended 14 1 77,652,082 5,043,559,025
1 day ago coldblueblade raid Attack defended 13 1 65,941,281 4,744,321,946
1 day ago coldblueblade raid Attack defended 8 0 67,767,266 5,376,701,983
1 day ago coldblueblade raid Attack defended 19 1 66,379,593 6,230,123,097
1 day ago s-snake raid Attack defended 3 8 313,254,714 5,827,472,506
1 day ago s-snake raid Attack defended 1 4 332,124,981 5,527,974,248
1 day ago s-snake raid Attack defended 3 9 364,919,511 5,634,535,606
1 day ago s-snake raid Attack defended 3 9 391,653,071 6,176,332,216
1 day ago s-snake raid Attack defended 1 6 380,369,542 5,227,109,131
1 day ago s-snake raid Attack defended 0 2 323,314,585 6,100,234,087
1 day ago s-snake raid Attack defended 3 9 343,708,035 5,253,080,458
1 day ago s-snake raid Attack defended 1 5 343,784,265 5,270,648,842
1 day ago s-snake raid Attack defended 2 8 363,044,021 5,055,624,956
1 day ago s-snake raid Attack defended 1 5 338,770,821 5,494,981,519
1 day ago RatCatcher_LaCN raid Attack defended 41 3 165,082,726 5,156,482,080
1 day ago RatCatcher_LaCN raid Attack defended 30 2 174,485,045 6,143,509,497
1 day ago RatCatcher_LaCN raid Attack defended 18 1 174,996,318 5,082,805,024
1 day ago RatCatcher_LaCN raid Attack defended 18 1 185,871,800 5,839,613,383
1 day ago RatCatcher_LaCN raid Attack defended 57 4 158,534,855 5,731,435,114
1 day ago RatCatcher_LaCN raid Attack defended 18 1 197,044,539 5,091,294,334
1 day ago RatCatcher_LaCN raid Attack defended 57 4 198,117,699 6,520,725,577
1 day ago RatCatcher_LaCN raid Attack defended 53 5 187,409,188 4,907,397,760
1 day ago RatCatcher_LaCN raid Attack defended 30 2 176,932,782 6,007,636,091
1 day ago RatCatcher_LaCN raid Attack defended 50 4 204,824,413 6,236,369,495
1 day ago Cerebral_Assassin attack Attack defended 17 4 214,481,679 5,251,969,509
1 day ago Danziger attack Attack defended 30 0 86,394,224 5,325,802,484
1 day ago It_Is_I-LaCN attack Attack defended 57 1 96,927,874 5,543,806,898
1 day ago Joshgav raid Attack defended 1,148 130 5,601,602,136 5,786,236,094
1 day ago BlackThunder attack 63,287,381 Gold stolen 1,110 147 16,273,457,148 4,867,694,664
2 days ago RealMcCoy_LaCN raid Attack defended 2,915 28 1,546,181,030 5,706,711,395
2 days ago Stryker_LaCN raid Attack defended 226 11 427,141,313 5,093,027,839
2 days ago Stryker_LaCN raid Attack defended 139 6 443,381,950 5,205,670,274
2 days ago Stryker_LaCN raid Attack defended 157 8 504,313,387 5,726,417,553
2 days ago Stryker_LaCN raid Attack defended 228 7 356,731,259 6,246,776,243
2 days ago Stryker_LaCN raid Attack defended 193 8 381,901,586 5,414,017,930
2 days ago Stryker_LaCN raid Attack defended 141 7 461,450,933 5,327,828,282
2 days ago Stryker_LaCN raid Attack defended 195 10 470,161,329 5,223,394,164
2 days ago Stryker_LaCN raid Attack defended 141 6 464,665,644 5,641,507,638
2 days ago Stryker_LaCN raid Attack defended 106 4 415,908,590 5,536,827,869
2 days ago Stryker_LaCN raid Attack defended 106 4 408,739,647 5,974,465,771
2 days ago RealMcCoy_LaCN raid Attack defended 3,814 46 1,815,173,045 5,347,791,109
2 days ago baboontay92 raid Attack defended 79 5 258,010,061 5,470,711,317
2 days ago Spiderwoman_LaCN attack Attack defended 19,447 51 3,575,588,245 5,786,184,813
2 days ago TheBadGuy_LaCN raid Attack defended 49 46 2,014,026,104 4,960,693,872
2 days ago TheBadGuy_LaCN raid Attack defended 45 36 1,859,006,938 5,375,378,036
2 days ago TheBadGuy_LaCN raid Attack defended 36 28 1,914,478,487 5,602,279,778
2 days ago TheBadGuy_LaCN raid Attack defended 50 43 1,997,491,467 5,292,809,429
2 days ago TheBadGuy_LaCN raid Attack defended 37 31 2,271,551,608 6,020,697,974
2 days ago TheBadGuy_LaCN raid Attack defended 51 48 1,817,616,828 4,272,762,261
2 days ago TheBadGuy_LaCN raid Attack defended 42 41 2,207,207,845 5,019,889,357
2 days ago TheBadGuy_LaCN raid Attack defended 52 47 2,151,640,774 5,239,662,620
2 days ago TheBadGuy_LaCN raid Attack defended 58 49 2,226,945,123 5,679,926,749
2 days ago TheBadGuy_LaCN raid Attack defended 44 36 1,915,090,195 4,945,051,449
2 days ago Stripper raid Attack defended 62 69 4,207,037,552 5,160,164,063
2 days ago Stripper raid Attack defended 84 101 4,300,071,421 4,785,968,064
2 days ago Stripper raid Attack defended 71 93 5,077,181,183 5,125,857,750
2 days ago Stripper raid Attack defended 57 63 4,783,106,299 5,753,519,785
2 days ago Stripper raid Attack defended 109 117 4,661,073,798 5,685,556,861
2 days ago Stripper raid Attack defended 58 56 4,391,863,359 5,921,695,473
2 days ago Stripper raid Attack defended 96 111 4,656,403,016 5,211,485,887
2 days ago Stripper raid Attack defended 82 66 3,917,657,348 6,271,247,816
2 days ago Stripper raid Attack defended 45 51 4,275,355,302 4,826,363,559
2 days ago Stripper raid Attack defended 76 87 4,465,354,722 4,943,308,803
2 days ago hi123_LaCN attack Attack defended 54 39 3,551,349,044 6,060,170,982
2 days ago elroyboy raid Attack defended 6 15 824,081,630 4,040,938,264
2 days ago elroyboy raid Attack defended 8 15 936,270,245 5,717,582,335
2 days ago elroyboy raid Attack defended 5 10 891,235,982 4,998,451,335
2 days ago elroyboy raid Attack defended 6 10 829,056,858 5,955,483,257
2 days ago elroyboy raid Attack defended 6 10 814,945,506 5,746,589,619
2 days ago Cheops attack 81,635,286 Gold stolen 1,008 91 45,511,603,310 5,119,801,258


as far as sabs go, i duno what they've sabbed from me, but here's what i can see for sab logs:



4 minutes ago BlackThunder Sabotage 1 0
4 minutes ago BlackThunder Sabotage 1 0
4 minutes ago BlackThunder Sabotage 1 0
4 minutes ago BlackThunder Sabotage 1 1
4 minutes ago BlackThunder Sabotage 1 0
5 minutes ago BlackThunder Sabotage 1 0
5 minutes ago BlackThunder Sabotage 1 0
5 minutes ago BlackThunder Sabotage 1 0
5 minutes ago Rasta_LaCN Sabotage 1 0
5 minutes ago Rasta_LaCN Sabotage 1 0
5 minutes ago Rasta_LaCN Sabotage 1 0
5 minutes ago Rasta_LaCN Sabotage 1 0
5 minutes ago Rasta_LaCN Sabotage 1 0
5 minutes ago Rasta_LaCN Sabotage 1 0
5 minutes ago Rasta_LaCN Sabotage 1 0
5 minutes ago Rasta_LaCN Sabotage 1 0
5 minutes ago Rasta_LaCN Sabotage 1 0
5 minutes ago Rasta_LaCN Sabotage 1 0
5 minutes ago BlackThunder Sabotage 1 0
5 minutes ago Rasta_LaCN Sabotage 1 0
6 minutes ago Rasta_LaCN Sabotage 1 0
6 minutes ago Rasta_LaCN Sabotage 1 0
6 minutes ago Rasta_LaCN Sabotage 1 0
6 minutes ago Rasta_LaCN Sabotage 1 0
6 minutes ago Rasta_LaCN Sabotage 1 0
6 minutes ago Rasta_LaCN Sabotage 1 0
6 minutes ago Rasta_LaCN Sabotage 1 0
6 minutes ago Rasta_LaCN Sabotage 1 0
6 minutes ago Rasta_LaCN Sabotage 1 0
6 minutes ago Rasta_LaCN Sabotage 1 0
6 minutes ago Rasta_LaCN Sabotage 1 0
6 minutes ago Rasta_LaCN Sabotage 1 0
6 minutes ago Rasta_LaCN Sabotage 1 0
6 minutes ago Rasta_LaCN Sabotage 1 0
6 minutes ago Rasta_LaCN Sabotage 1 0
6 minutes ago Rasta_LaCN Sabotage 1 0
6 minutes ago Rasta_LaCN Sabotage 1 0
6 minutes ago Rasta_LaCN Sabotage 1 0
6 minutes ago Rasta_LaCN Sabotage 1 0
52 minutes ago insanity_issues Recon 0 0
2 hours ago nOObie12 Sabotage 1 0
2 hours ago nOObie12 Sabotage 1 0
2 hours ago nOObie12 Sabotage 1 0
2 hours ago nOObie12 Sabotage 1 0
3 hours ago Depletion Sabotage 1 0
3 hours ago Depletion Sabotage 1 0
3 hours ago Depletion Sabotage 1 0
3 hours ago Depletion Sabotage 1 0
3 hours ago Depletion Sabotage 1 0
3 hours ago Depletion Sabotage 1 0
3 hours ago Depletion Sabotage 1 0
3 hours ago Depletion Sabotage 1 0
3 hours ago Depletion Sabotage 1 0
3 hours ago Depletion Sabotage 1 0
3 hours ago Depletion Sabotage 1 0
3 hours ago Depletion Sabotage 1 0
3 hours ago Depletion Sabotage 1 0
3 hours ago Depletion Sabotage 1 0
3 hours ago Depletion Sabotage 1 0
3 hours ago Depletion Sabotage 1 0
3 hours ago Depletion Sabotage 1 0
3 hours ago Depletion Sabotage 1 0
3 hours ago Depletion Sabotage 1 0
3 hours ago Depletion Sabotage 1 0
3 hours ago Depletion Sabotage 1 0
3 hours ago Depletion Sabotage 1 0
3 hours ago Depletion Sabotage 1 0
3 hours ago Depletion Sabotage 1 0
3 hours ago Depletion Sabotage 1 0
3 hours ago Depletion Sabotage 1 0
3 hours ago Depletion Sabotage 1 0
3 hours ago Depletion Sabotage 1 0
3 hours ago Depletion Sabotage 1 0
3 hours ago Depletion Sabotage 1 0
3 hours ago Depletion Sabotage 1 0
3 hours ago Depletion Sabotage 1 0
3 hours ago Depletion Sabotage 1 0
3 hours ago Depletion Sabotage 1 0
3 hours ago Depletion Sabotage 1 0
3 hours ago Depletion Sabotage 1 0
3 hours ago Depletion Sabotage 1 0
3 hours ago Depletion Sabotage 1 0
3 hours ago Depletion Sabotage 1 0
3 hours ago Depletion Sabotage 1 0
3 hours ago Depletion Sabotage 1 0
3 hours ago Depletion Sabotage 1 0
3 hours ago Depletion Sabotage 1 0
3 hours ago Depletion Sabotage 1 0
3 hours ago Depletion Sabotage 1 0
3 hours ago Depletion Sabotage 1 0
4 hours ago Uther_LaCN Sabotage 1 0
4 hours ago Uther_LaCN Sabotage 1 0
4 hours ago Uther_LaCN Sabotage 1 0
4 hours ago Uther_LaCN Sabotage 1 0
4 hours ago Uther_LaCN Sabotage 1 0
4 hours ago Uther_LaCN Sabotage 1 0
4 hours ago Uther_LaCN Sabotage 1 0
4 hours ago Uther_LaCN Sabotage 1 0
4 hours ago Uther_LaCN Sabotage 1 0
4 hours ago Uther_LaCN Sabotage 1 0
4 hours ago Uther_LaCN Sabotage 1 0
4 hours ago Uther_LaCN Sabotage 1 0
4 hours ago Uther_LaCN Sabotage 1 0
4 hours ago Uther_LaCN Sabotage 1 0
4 hours ago Uther_LaCN Sabotage 1 0
4 hours ago Uther_LaCN Sabotage 1 0
4 hours ago Uther_LaCN Sabotage 1 0
4 hours ago Uther_LaCN Sabotage 1 0
4 hours ago Uther_LaCN Sabotage 1 0
4 hours ago Uther_LaCN Sabotage 1 0
4 hours ago Uther_LaCN Sabotage 1 0
4 hours ago Uther_LaCN Sabotage 1 0
4 hours ago Uther_LaCN Sabotage 1 0
4 hours ago Uther_LaCN Sabotage 1 0
4 hours ago Uther_LaCN Sabotage 1 0
4 hours ago Uther_LaCN Sabotage 1 0
4 hours ago Uther_LaCN Sabotage 1 0
4 hours ago Uther_LaCN Sabotage 1 0
4 hours ago Uther_LaCN Sabotage 1 0
4 hours ago Uther_LaCN Sabotage 1 0
4 hours ago Uther_LaCN Sabotage 1 0
4 hours ago Uther_LaCN Sabotage 1 0
4 hours ago Uther_LaCN Sabotage 1 0
8 hours ago Merv Sabotage 1 0
8 hours ago Spiderwoman_LaCN Sabotage 2 1
8 hours ago Spiderwoman_LaCN Sabotage 2 0
8 hours ago Spiderwoman_LaCN Sabotage 2 0
8 hours ago Spiderwoman_LaCN Sabotage 2 0
8 hours ago Spiderwoman_LaCN Sabotage 2 0
8 hours ago Spiderwoman_LaCN Sabotage 2 0
8 hours ago Spiderwoman_LaCN Sabotage 2 0
8 hours ago Spiderwoman_LaCN Sabotage 2 0
8 hours ago Spiderwoman_LaCN Sabotage 2 1
8 hours ago Spiderwoman_LaCN Sabotage 2 0
8 hours ago Spiderwoman_LaCN Sabotage 2 0
8 hours ago Spiderwoman_LaCN Sabotage 2 1
8 hours ago Spiderwoman_LaCN Sabotage 2 1
8 hours ago Spiderwoman_LaCN Sabotage 2 0
8 hours ago Spiderwoman_LaCN Sabotage 2 1
8 hours ago Spiderwoman_LaCN Sabotage 2 0
8 hours ago Spiderwoman_LaCN Sabotage 2 0
8 hours ago Spiderwoman_LaCN Sabotage 2 1
8 hours ago Spiderwoman_LaCN Recon 0 0
8 hours ago Spiderwoman_LaCN Recon 0 0
8 hours ago Spiderwoman_LaCN Recon 0 0
8 hours ago Spiderwoman_LaCN Sabotage 2 1
8 hours ago Spiderwoman_LaCN Sabotage 2 0
8 hours ago Spiderwoman_LaCN Sabotage 2 0
8 hours ago Spiderwoman_LaCN Sabotage 2 0
8 hours ago Spiderwoman_LaCN Sabotage 2 0
8 hours ago Spiderwoman_LaCN Sabotage 2 0
8 hours ago Spiderwoman_LaCN Sabotage 2 1
8 hours ago Spiderwoman_LaCN Sabotage 2 0
8 hours ago Spiderwoman_LaCN Sabotage 2 0
8 hours ago Spiderwoman_LaCN Sabotage 2 0
16 hours ago Uther_LaCN Sabotage 1 0
16 hours ago Uther_LaCN Sabotage 1 0
16 hours ago Uther_LaCN Sabotage 1 0
16 hours ago Uther_LaCN Sabotage 5 2
16 hours ago Uther_LaCN Sabotage 1 0
16 hours ago Uther_LaCN Sabotage 1 0
16 hours ago Uther_LaCN Sabotage 1 0
16 hours ago Uther_LaCN Sabotage 1 0
16 hours ago Uther_LaCN Sabotage 1 0
17 hours ago Uther_LaCN Sabotage 1 0
17 hours ago Uther_LaCN Sabotage 1 0
22 hours ago MerDeNoms Sabotage 1 0
22 hours ago MerDeNoms Sabotage 1 0
23 hours ago TheGodFather_LaCN Sabotage 1 0
23 hours ago TheGodFather_LaCN Recon 0 0
24 hours ago uford Sabotage 1 0
24 hours ago uford Sabotage 1 0
24 hours ago uford Sabotage 25 11
1 day ago Uther_LaCN Recon 0 0
1 day ago Uther_LaCN Sabotage 1 0
1 day ago Uther_LaCN Sabotage 1 0
1 day ago Silver_Bullet Sabotage 1 0
1 day ago Spiderwoman_LaCN Sabotage 3 1
1 day ago Spiderwoman_LaCN Sabotage 3 0
1 day ago Spiderwoman_LaCN Sabotage 3 1
1 day ago Spiderwoman_LaCN Sabotage 3 1
1 day ago Cotillion_LaCN Sabotage 1 0
1 day ago Cotillion_LaCN Sabotage 1 0
1 day ago Cotillion_LaCN Sabotage 1 0
1 day ago Cotillion_LaCN Sabotage 1 0
1 day ago xxxwolfyxxx Sabotage 1 0
1 day ago xxxwolfyxxx Sabotage 1 0
1 day ago xxxwolfyxxx Sabotage 1 0
1 day ago xxxwolfyxxx Sabotage 1 0
1 day ago xxxwolfyxxx Sabotage 1 0
1 day ago xxxwolfyxxx Sabotage 1 0
1 day ago xxxwolfyxxx Sabotage 1 0
1 day ago xxxwolfyxxx Sabotage 1 0
1 day ago xxxwolfyxxx Sabotage 1 0
1 day ago xxxwolfyxxx Sabotage 1 0
1 day ago xxxwolfyxxx Sabotage 1 0
1 day ago xxxwolfyxxx Sabotage 1 0
1 day ago xxxwolfyxxx Sabotage 1 0
1 day ago xxxwolfyxxx Sabotage 1 0
1 day ago xxxwolfyxxx Sabotage 1 0
1 day ago xxxwolfyxxx Sabotage 1 0
1 day ago xxxwolfyxxx Sabotage 1 0
1 day ago xxxwolfyxxx Sabotage 1 0
1 day ago xxxwolfyxxx Sabotage 1 0
2 days ago Uther_LaCN Sabotage 1 0
2 days ago Uther_LaCN Sabotage 1 0
2 days ago Uther_LaCN Sabotage 1 0


It says this post was too long, so I gota do this in two posts. :(

powdered_donuts
26th March 2010, 11:36 PM
2 days ago Dragstor Sabotage 1 0
2 days ago Dragstor Sabotage 1 0
2 days ago Dragstor Sabotage 1 0
2 days ago Dragstor Sabotage 1 0
2 days ago Dragstor Sabotage 1 0
2 days ago Dragstor Sabotage 1 0
2 days ago Dragstor Sabotage 1 0
2 days ago Dragstor Sabotage 1 0
2 days ago Dragstor Sabotage 1 0
2 days ago Dragstor Sabotage 1 0
2 days ago Dragstor Sabotage 1 0
2 days ago Dragstor Sabotage 1 0
2 days ago Dragstor Sabotage 1 0
2 days ago DJToastie Sabotage 1 0
2 days ago DJToastie Sabotage 1 0
2 days ago DJToastie Sabotage 1 0
2 days ago DJToastie Sabotage 1 0
2 days ago DJToastie Sabotage 1 0
2 days ago DJToastie Sabotage 1 0
2 days ago DJToastie Sabotage 1 0
2 days ago DJToastie Sabotage 1 0
2 days ago DJToastie Sabotage 1 0
2 days ago DJToastie Sabotage 1 0
2 days ago DJToastie Sabotage 1 0
2 days ago DJToastie Sabotage 1 0
2 days ago DJToastie Sabotage 1 0
2 days ago DJToastie Sabotage 1 0
2 days ago DJToastie Sabotage 1 0
2 days ago DJToastie Sabotage 1 0
2 days ago DJToastie Sabotage 1 0
2 days ago DJToastie Sabotage 1 0
2 days ago DJToastie Sabotage 1 0
2 days ago DJToastie Sabotage 1 0
2 days ago DJToastie Sabotage 1 0
2 days ago DJToastie Sabotage 1 0
2 days ago DJToastie Sabotage 1 0
2 days ago DJToastie Sabotage 1 0
2 days ago DJToastie Sabotage 1 0
2 days ago DJToastie Sabotage 1 0
2 days ago DJToastie Sabotage 1 0
2 days ago DJToastie Sabotage 1 0
2 days ago DJToastie Sabotage 1 0
2 days ago DJToastie Sabotage 1 0
2 days ago DJToastie Sabotage 1 0
2 days ago DJToastie Sabotage 1 0
2 days ago DJToastie Sabotage 1 0
2 days ago DJToastie Sabotage 1 0
2 days ago DJToastie Sabotage 1 0
2 days ago DJToastie Sabotage 1 0
2 days ago DJToastie Sabotage 1 0
2 days ago DJToastie Sabotage 1 0
2 days ago DJToastie Sabotage 1 0
2 days ago DJToastie Sabotage 1 0
2 days ago DJToastie Sabotage 1 0
2 days ago DJToastie Sabotage 1 0
2 days ago DJToastie Sabotage 1 0
2 days ago DJToastie Sabotage 1 0
2 days ago DJToastie Sabotage 1 0
2 days ago DJToastie Sabotage 1 0
2 days ago DJToastie Sabotage 1 0
2 days ago DJToastie Sabotage 1 0
2 days ago Spiderwoman_LaCN Sabotage 1 0
2 days ago Spiderwoman_LaCN Sabotage 1 0
2 days ago Spiderwoman_LaCN Sabotage 1 0
2 days ago Spiderwoman_LaCN Sabotage 1 0
2 days ago Spiderwoman_LaCN Sabotage 1 0
2 days ago Spiderwoman_LaCN Sabotage 1 0
2 days ago Spiderwoman_LaCN Sabotage 1 0
2 days ago Spiderwoman_LaCN Sabotage 1 0
2 days ago Spiderwoman_LaCN Sabotage 1 0
2 days ago Spiderwoman_LaCN Sabotage 1 0
2 days ago Spiderwoman_LaCN Sabotage 1 0
2 days ago Spiderwoman_LaCN Sabotage 1 0
2 days ago Spiderwoman_LaCN Sabotage 1 0
2 days ago Spiderwoman_LaCN Sabotage 1 0
2 days ago Spiderwoman_LaCN Sabotage 1 0
2 days ago Spiderwoman_LaCN Sabotage 1 0
2 days ago Spiderwoman_LaCN Sabotage 1 0
2 days ago Spiderwoman_LaCN Sabotage 1 0
2 days ago Spiderwoman_LaCN Sabotage 1 0
2 days ago Spiderwoman_LaCN Sabotage 1 0
2 days ago Spiderwoman_LaCN Sabotage 1 0
2 days ago Spiderwoman_LaCN Sabotage 1 0
2 days ago Spiderwoman_LaCN Sabotage 1 0
2 days ago Spiderwoman_LaCN Sabotage 1 0
2 days ago Spiderwoman_LaCN Sabotage 1 0
2 days ago Spiderwoman_LaCN Sabotage 1 0
2 days ago Spiderwoman_LaCN Sabotage 1 0
2 days ago Spiderwoman_LaCN Sabotage 1 0
2 days ago Spiderwoman_LaCN Sabotage 1 0
2 days ago Spiderwoman_LaCN Sabotage 1 0
2 days ago Spiderwoman_LaCN Sabotage 1 0
2 days ago Spiderwoman_LaCN Sabotage 1 0
2 days ago Spiderwoman_LaCN Sabotage 1 0
2 days ago Spiderwoman_LaCN Sabotage 1 0
2 days ago Spiderwoman_LaCN Sabotage 1 0
2 days ago Spiderwoman_LaCN Sabotage 1 0
2 days ago Spiderwoman_LaCN Sabotage 1 0
2 days ago Spiderwoman_LaCN Sabotage 1 0
2 days ago Spiderwoman_LaCN Sabotage 1 0
2 days ago Spiderwoman_LaCN Sabotage 1 0
2 days ago Spiderwoman_LaCN Sabotage 1 0
2 days ago Spiderwoman_LaCN Sabotage 1 0
2 days ago Spiderwoman_LaCN Sabotage 1 0
2 days ago Spiderwoman_LaCN Sabotage 1 0
2 days ago Spiderwoman_LaCN Sabotage 1 0
2 days ago Spiderwoman_LaCN Sabotage 1 0




Rasta_LaCN None 11 minutes ago



2 can play at that game ;)

Rasta_LaCN None 1 second ago no

Sincerely,
PD-thatoneguyintS
Rasta_LaCN None 19 seconds ago yes

Talk to your mates, your not the first to join the game. :)

marshbag7 None 11 minutes ago



Why did you sab me?

marshbag7 None 1 second ago no

Why wouldn't I?

Sincerely,
PD-thatoneguyintS

Screwdriver_LaCN Hello 2 minutes ago



Hey Powdered_Donuts,

I guess you had some mercs to kill and of course some poor repairs ;) anyways...I just want you to know that your actions about the deal with TGF are fully disrespectfull and I am saying this as a player who sells morale too and I have sold a lot in age 12 and in this age and I when we have a deal with the buyer the deal stays the same no matter if he changes his prices in several days ;) but I guess you were just searching a reason to chain us :P

Screwdriver_LaCN
Loyal Member of LaCN
BF Mod

Screwdriver_LaCN None 1 second ago no

Looking for a reason to chain you? Lol, you got me all figured wrong. Although I don't mind it, I wasn't looking for a reason, but 60k morale is worth it to me. :)

Sincerely,
PD-thatoneguyintS

Lord_Ezek
26th March 2010, 11:38 PM
what complicates this, is something was sent without being paid for.


well to be honest with you, your posts makes the issue more complicated. Don't know if you just wanna increase your post cost or something.

I don't know if there's any chain out there thats gonna give back the morale after getting sabbed.

I'll repeat again, orbie offered gold more than the agreed price several times. After PO chainsabbed he offered it again. Orbie's generous enough to still pay the deal even if other LaCN members was already sabbed.

xe-bec
26th March 2010, 11:48 PM
Wow, I know I am not involved with this, but we are on page 24 now, and everyone just keeps saying the same thing over and over again. The circles should be making everyone dizzy. It's like:

Read line directly below this:
Read line directly above this:

Lol.

SleepingDragon
27th March 2010, 03:16 AM
Personally i believe that him staying approved is the fairest, don't you? ;) I would like to avoid sabbing the innocent people in his chain but there comes a point where we must stand up for our innocent members as well, regardless of what that means.

There are no longer innocents in your chain, LaCN's official stance is for PD to get <firetrucked>. The only reason you would sab his chain is because he's embarrassed you and is causing significant damage to the players in your chain (at least the ones that cannot even bear to be hit for TBG and want phone calls from in-chain members when its time to bank).

You changed the price of morale mid-deal, when he still had to put in 100K worth of work (which is 5 days of 20K deposits). He came to you asking the new price to be honored, he was denied. He asked for the morale to be sent back, he was told to get <get firetrucked>.

With that said, you can threaten to open fire on his chain over the non-existent "innocents" in this issue - but it'll just look all the more outrageous and make the revenge that much sweeter. ;)

Dragon_Orb
27th March 2010, 03:37 AM
My deal with powdered_donuts had nothing to do with the rest of LaCN, the first action to do with them was when powdered_donuts massed and chained them.


You changed the price of morale mid-deal, when he still had to put in 100K worth of work (which is 5 days of 20K deposits). He came to you asking the new price to be honored, he was denied. He asked for the morale to be sent back, he was told to get <get firetrucked>.
This is not a debate over a theoretical 100k morale that never existed, it's about the original 60k morale. Answer me this: Why the hell would new prices be applied to morale already sent when the price was lower? It wouldn't, especially as the other person agreed to the price. This 60k morale was sent before the price increase and before the complaint.

JeNnAjAmEsoN
27th March 2010, 04:23 AM
Any action taken on PD chainmates will have as consequence the INMEDIATE reaction of my crappy account. This is LACN vs PD,

Enuff said

Dragon_Orb
27th March 2010, 04:28 AM
Any action taken on PD chainmates will have as consequence the INMEDIATE reaction of my crappy account. This is LACN vs PD,

Enuff said
So in this dispute between powdered_donuts and myself:

It's ok for powdered_donuts to sab my chain
It's not ok for me to sab powdered_donuts chain


Is that about right? This would be more of the hypocritical double standards :)

DrunKnGoblin
27th March 2010, 04:40 AM
So in this dispute between powdered_donuts and myself:

It's ok for powdered_donuts to sab my chain
It's not ok for me to sab powdered_donuts chain


Is that about right? This would be more of the hypocritical double standards :)

Ok, I am backing up LaCN here so it may be the beers, But DragonOrb, i think it would be justifiable to chain PD, If not his upchain, just his offies and subs. how much damage can u do to 1 person? very minimal, the next step is to stunt growth and offy bonus. That is just the next logical step.....

Either way, both sides good luck.

SleepingDragon
27th March 2010, 05:04 AM
So in this dispute between powdered_donuts and myself:

It's ok for powdered_donuts to sab my chain
It's not ok for me to sab powdered_donuts chain


Is that about right? This would be more of the hypocritical double standards :)

ohhhhhhhh, I assumed you meant all of LaCN would sab his chain. By all means, you sab his chain then. One good turn deserves another. I don't think it'd be smart if his chain had enough SA to mass you though, that could create more problems for you. But for sure, if you really feel that strongly YOU should chain them all (above and below). Good luck!

Semper.Fidelis
27th March 2010, 05:24 AM
So in this dispute between powdered_donuts and myself:

It's ok for powdered_donuts to sab my chain
It's not ok for me to sab powdered_donuts chain


You know that this "The end justifies the means" policy can be applied to both parties, right? You say it is wrong for PD to chain LaCN, but it might be ok for LaCN to chain tS as a means of protecting your interests? Either bombing civilians can be justified or it can't be. Also the argument of offie bonus and cutting off supply-lines can be applied to PD'S inital chaining as well.
Unless you honor his request and send back what is his you'll never have the morale high ground (<-lol) here and the whole honor crap you guys have been spewing all this time will just remain some bs act.

One more thing did you actually offer to send him HIS morale back before he started chaining in an attempt to be honorable?

Nasser
27th March 2010, 05:47 AM
So in this dispute between powdered_donuts and myself:

It's ok for powdered_donuts to sab my chain
It's not ok for me to sab powdered_donuts chain


Is that about right? This would be more of the hypocritical double standards :)

No its totally right , PD chained you , he got approved , and none of his chain backing him up... you can also chain him , but also in theory they can approve you with sabs ( I doubt ) and Masses ( more likely ) without you getting back up from your chain against his chain ? you know , when you lecture about honor , then you wouldn't get backup off your chain in case you chained them and you got approved ... else you'd be like a whore preaching virginity...
so please chain them? :D

t0msky
27th March 2010, 06:07 AM
LACN are trying to use real life contract terms but omitting the most important part of ANY AND ALL real life contracts, both parties have a grace period to opt out of a contract, and have their goods/money returned, you however are breaching that by refusing to return goods which do not belong to you, your offer of cash is not acceptable to PD and you are wrong to give this as a take it or leave it option.
As far as lacns stance on "honor" goes, youre trying to enforce your belief of honor on PD, he isnt lacn and has no reason to adhere to lacn "honor", he has no affiliation with lacn and is acting according to his own principals, you should do the same, by taking this belligerant stance in clear violation of your own clan codes and refusing to return his morale, you only damage the lacn reputationand devalue the so called lacn honor principal.
If you play a lead account and are the spokesperson/representation of a clan then you do forego certain rights to real life, you accept that by taking the lead account, if you are unwilling to make time for people in the game who may have limited time themselves then the repercussions also affect lacn, you admit you was rude and offensive to PD and expect no reaction from that, incorporated into that you have taken his morale and refused to return it, what reaction did you expect him to take ?
I remember a time when lacn was a respectable clan however it seems you have acquired a little power and now seem to think you can dictate the game to others, perhaps you should step back from the precipice and reevaluate what it is lacn wants to be known as, a clan which will refuse to return that which they dont own hence becoming a clan which steals off other players hard work, or back to being a respectable clan, you have an opportunity to show the people playing koc that regardless of circumstances you do have honor, its upto you to make the right decision here

Dragon_Orb
27th March 2010, 06:19 AM
You know that this "The end justifies the means" policy can be applied to both parties, right? You say it is wrong for PD to chain LaCN, but it might be ok for LaCN to chain tS as a means of protecting your interests? Either bombing civilians can be justified or it can't be. Also the argument of offie bonus and cutting off supply-lines can be applied to PD'S inital chaining as well.
I hope your glasses prescription is coming soon, i said ME sab his chain, not LaCN sabbing his chain.


Unless you honor his request and send back what is his you'll never have the morale high ground (<-lol) here and the whole honor crap you guys have been spewing all this time will just remain some bs act.
I can request something too, doesn't mean i'll get it or that i'm entitled to receive it. This 60k morale powdered_donuts had no problems sending and he had no problems with the price. I've yet to see one single person saying it's reasonable to ask for a new price to be back-dated and applied to morale sent before it was even being offered to anyone.


No its totally right , PD chained you , he got approved , and none of his chain backing him up... you can also chain him , but also in theory they can approve you with sabs ( I doubt ) and Masses ( more likely ) without you getting back up from your chain against his chain ? you know , when you lecture about honor , then you wouldn't get backup off your chain in case you chained them and you got approved ... else you'd be like a whore preaching virginity...
so please chain them? :DNone of my officers or chain made any actions against powdered_donuts until after he chained them either. Does that mean that if i were to chain powdered_donuts that tS would only retaliate on me, or would they retaliate on all of LaCN? The LaCN chain has done them the courtesy of only retaliating on the one who attacked them, would the same be true the other way around?


Also the argument of offie bonus and cutting off supply-lines can be applied to PD'S inital chaining as well.Is that the excuse he's using? I haven't actually seen a legitimate reason for powdered_donuts to have taken actions on anyone besides myself yet. Not a single person from LaCN made any actions against powdered_donuts before his chaining (outside of regular gold hits).

Sterling
27th March 2010, 06:24 AM
tldr wall of text by t0msky but,

In previous ages, if a leader or chain head ends up chainsabbing another chain, then it almost assuredly leads to war so I say man up and do it for the lulz.

Red
27th March 2010, 06:57 AM
tldr wall of text by t0msky but,

In previous ages, if a leader or chain head ends up chainsabbing another chain, then it almost assuredly leads to war so I say man up and do it for the lulz.

So nice to see that my tattoo has created such a stir,almost as if ur all a bit envious of the strong relationship i feel with my alliance,and the deep loyalty i feel towards them :) I have a tattoo on my bum also,but i wont show that :rolleyes:

It is however quite amusing that this thread has continued thru so many pages,with so many 'men' swinging theirs in an effort to see who has the biggest,regardless of the fact that things are pretty much made very plain.

Imo,most of u men argue and carry on more than the women u b!tch about.

I stand by the decision LaCN has made on this subject btw.

SleepingDragon
27th March 2010, 08:08 AM
Imo,most of u men argue and carry on more than the women u b!tch about.

Whoa, whoa, there's no reason to ever complain about women. They cook our food, wash our clothes, and give birth to our children. If anything, contract discussions like this are to be held amongst men and men only! :P


I stand by the decision LaCN has made on this subject btw.

What decision is that? To join TGF in his chaining of PD's chain, since you all know they'll approve TGF anyway and you might as well get first strike in? Hmmmm, that's quite a clever decision! :lamer:

JeNnAjAmEsoN
27th March 2010, 08:14 AM
So in this dispute between powdered_donuts and myself:

It's ok for powdered_donuts to sab my chain
It's not ok for me to sab powdered_donuts chain



My excuses Orbie, I misunderstood. I thought whole Lacn was gonna jump into PD chain for this issue. If you decide to chain them by yourself you know whats gonna happen, whole lacn sabbing PD and whole PD chain massing you. That would be the logical status quo, but im sure your chain wouldnt accept that situation...




I stand by the decision LaCN has made on this subject btw.

You mind telling us whats the decision LACN has made? How are you gonna deal with the approval of your main if he chains PDs officers and they reply?

Dragon_Orb
27th March 2010, 08:18 AM
What decision is that? To join TGF in his chaining of PD's chain, since you all know they'll approve TGF anyway and you might as well get first strike in? Hmmmm, that's quite a clever decision! :lamer:
If i chained them i'd expect them to approve me, after all we approved powdered_donuts. Also noone from our chain has made any actions on anyone in tS (excluding powdered_donuts ofcourse :P) outside of a normal gold hit, so less LaCN hate about a chaining that we haven't even done please :)

Red
27th March 2010, 08:27 AM
You mind telling us whats the decision LACN has made? How are you gonna deal with the approval of your main if he chains PDs officers and they reply?

In this whole thread i back up wot Dragon_Orb has said,that is wot i had meant,so dont look between lines wen nothing is there.
How would i deal with it? I have no stats,how do u think i could deal with it on the BF? :rolleyes:
I click,i offer support,i offer encouragement. Considering i hate the number this age is,i think i am doing well in how i support LaCN.
Woteva happens,happens. I have not stated wot will happen,as that is in the future and i cannot see that far obviously.
And @ PD,woteva happened 2 u selling ur account 4 morale like u said? I see nothing of that in all the replies here.