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View Full Version : The preponderance of taking advice from people that don't know



snoop
14th March 2010, 11:31 AM
Let me tell you guys about a sab account. This is a player that begun playing 2 weeks ago. He currently tries to sab people that are bigger than himself with 25 spies every time (20-30B sentry), barely has enough spies to hold his tools, and received a sell to get to his meager 11B spy. This person hates the fact that he takes close to 2b damage when he sabs 50 different people and would like damages completely gone. He sees the fact that he takes 2B damage sabbing that many people (most of which are larger than him) as a game ruining fact, let's forget about the part where he gets in at most 7/10 times. Now, said person came to me to tell me that damages need to be completely removed and that he has no recourse when those larger players come and sab him back.

Do you guys think we should listen to such a person? A person who only just started playing the game, and doesn't know that you can sab with fewer than 25 spies? Because if your age 4 sabbing were up to this person, who only just made his RoC account 2 weeks ago and doesn't have the TBG and TFF to support a sab account, which many of you have spent the age building, then damage will be removed and then no one will be able to hold SA or DA.

Now, I've decided to be classy and keep said person's name out of the thread because I posted details about said person's account to give context to said person's argument.

Everyone knows that you take several times more damage for sabbing with more spies, that is part of the tradeoff for using 25 spies, and part of the tradeoff for risking it against someone that is bigger than yourself.

RichOahu_ES
14th March 2010, 02:36 PM
since i don't belive in coincidences... i don't belive snoop and this mystery person. i think he is fishing becasue of the talk listed below....

before i post it all, let me make a coment. back in age one there was a horde of solo sabbers. pure covert accounts. everyone hated them, sab alliances, rankers, everyone as they were untouchable. they didn't even have weapons! so, we all, i mean ALL asked for coverts to be able to be killed. here comes age two, not only did they introduce killing coverts, but they added damage to tools when sabbing. WHAT THE HELL, i don't ever remember anyone asking for this. they then let that entire screwed up age run till the game was almost destroyed, the population has STILL never recovered.

yesterday in our room, the ES room on mRIC, we were "ambushed" by the mods. they don't get it. no one ever asked for damage to tools. i still don't see how it helps. you are punished for warring in a war game. you are punished for getting to gether and runnig masses.

the fix to the pure covert sab account was to kill coverts. not kill and punish all people that need/want to sab.

anyway. here is the "talk". we didn't ask for them to all come to our room. and of course snoop is wrong again as this "person" has a 40 bil spy and is complaining that it take 11mil in damage to try and sab someone.

or look at this:

Your intelligence division estimates the cost for xxxx to recover: 59,400,000 Gold
Your weapon damage cost: 24,706,682 Gold

Your intelligence division estimates the cost for xxxx to recover: 76,949,999 Gold
Your weapon damage cost: 30,357,490 Gold


does that look right? is that "fun"? they say they are going to rduce the damages. wtf, just take them out! they are NOT needed, no one has ever justified it. other than saying. i think it was snoop, "if you sab you have the chance to do damage, so you should take damage", wtf does that mean? the chance for return damage is in the RETALIATION.

/boggle




as i said numerous times... we shall see.....






<+Vrasp> i hate to be sabbed
<+Vrasp> and to sab
<+Vrasp> i feel like sabotage should be removed from the game
<+Semper> I'd hate to be sabbed by you
<+Semper> or rouen
<+Vrasp> we suck
<&RichOahu> no war in a war game o.O
<+Vrasp> yeah definitely
<@mashman> sab me pls
<+Vrasp> the game would be a lot better without sab
<+Vrasp> people would get along then
<+Vrasp> !
<~t0msky_ES> who ste ?
<@mashman> and bank all day long
<&RichOahu> Your covert operations center orders 1 spy to attempt to sabotage 8,013 Mauls.
<&RichOahu> Your spy sneaks into mashman's command center, and sabotages 8,013 Mauls.
<&RichOahu> Your intelligence division estimates the cost for mashman to recover: 120,195,000 Gold
<@mashman> how boring
<+Vrasp> sounds fun to me =(
<+Semper> lol
<&RichOahu> o.O
<+Semper> all that from 1 spy
<~t0msky_ES> spoken like a true ranker vrasp m8
* +Vrasp bows
<+Vrasp> and yeah that log made me actually want to sab you
<&RichOahu> cost me 18mil in sab damages lol
<@mashman> 1 minute ago RichOahu_ES Sabotage 1 0
<@mashman> oh noo
<&RichOahu> game is messed up ;-P
<~t0msky_ES> Your covert operations center orders 1 spy to attempt to sabotage 133 Excaliburs.
<~t0msky_ES> Your spy sneaks into Semper's command center, and sabotages 133 Excaliburs.
<~t0msky_ES> Your intelligence division estimates the cost for Semper to recover: 133,000,000 Gold
<~t0msky_ES> Your weapon damage cost: 11,327,252 Gold
<&RichOahu> wtf.. we are a pack of animals...
<~t0msky_ES> wow 11 mill to repair
<~t0msky_ES> wtf
<+Semper> o.O
<+Semper> that's it... i'm joining DN
<&RichOahu> told ya t0m ;-)
* +Semper sulks
<+Vrasp> i'd take like

<+Vrasp> 40m to do it
<+Vrasp> =\
<~t0msky_ES> i dont mind
<~t0msky_ES> its only pretend gold
<&RichOahu> 40bil spy the repairs get stupid
<+Vrasp> i don't mind either
<+Semper> ^ true indeed
<&RichOahu> yeah, but don't make it right
<+Vrasp> but it kinda annoying
<~t0msky_ES> true
<+Vrasp> spending 3h of tbg to repair
<&RichOahu> 3-4 hours of tbg to repair, then get sabbed back....
<&RichOahu> weee!
<@mashman> Your weapon damage cost: 13,467,345 Gold
<~t0msky_ES> sab my spy ste, wanna see how much damage gets done
<@mashman> for 1 dagger
<&RichOahu> but is what we do
<+Vrasp> 13m repairs for 1 dagger isn't possible :x
<+Vrasp> unless you fail maybe
<~t0msky_ES> dont do 1 spy do 25
<~t0msky_ES> ste
<+Vrasp> i'll tell you your aat
<+Vrasp> if that's what you awnt
<~t0msky_ES> a
<~t0msky_ES> just wanna idea of damge im gonna get
<+Semper> I'll do it, t0m
<+Vrasp> You can be sabbed for 130,428,800 gold on weapons or 78,257,280 gold on tools per attempt with 25 spies and 800 covert skill.
<+Tapchou> RichOahu.
<@mashman> Your intelligence division estimates the cost for t0msky_ES to recover: 78,255,000 Gold
<+Tapchou> Lol.
<+Vrasp> =D
<+Vrasp> told you!
<~t0msky_ES> lol kk
<+Semper> you have a lot of time on your hands Vrasp, mate
<~t0msky_ES> i can live with that
<&RichOahu> sup tap
<+Vrasp> i really do
<+Tapchou> You need to justify why something is 'stupid' and not just state that's stupid.
<+Vrasp> i should be more productive
<+Vrasp> It's cool tho'
<+Semper> ^ ha-ha
<+Vrasp> because I get accused of cheating
<&RichOahu> no i don't, we said it all before. so it is stupid to keep sayign the same thing over and over
<+Vrasp> because of my tons of time
<~t0msky_ES> its stupid tap becuase its set to aid rankers not fighters
<~t0msky_ES> stupid in a fighting game
<&RichOahu> punished to war in a war game. the punishment should come in retaliation
<&RichOahu> not punished for doing what the game is about
<~t0msky_ES> tru
<+Tapchou> You're saying you should get no repairs, lol?
<~t0msky_ES> the enemy is going ot damage the sabbers so why are the sabbers being hit twice<&RichOahu> OMFG we only played that way for 5 years
<+Tapchou> Not really.
<+Tapchou> RichOahu: Cut the bullshit and act your age, man.
<&RichOahu> then someone got a bright idea in age to to change it. how did that go over with the people that quit?
<+Vrasp> 1) cuz you can sab people with way more sov than you, so they lose a lot more :x
<+Vrasp> 2) that thingy where you can't be sabbed with 25 spies after you've been damaged too much in a day
* Tapchou was kicked by RichOahu (RichOahu)
* Tapchou (Administrator@netadmin.ruinsofchaos.com) has joined #ES
* ChanServ sets mode: +v Tapchou
* +Tapchou claps.
<+Vrasp> repairs are kinda high though
<+Semper> lol
<+Vrasp> sometimes, anyway
<~t0msky_ES> lol dont kick him
<~t0msky_ES> hes a nice guy
<&RichOahu> he is being a twit
<+Tapchou> Ditto.
<&RichOahu> comes in our room and talks shit?
<~t0msky_ES> discussion is what its called
<&RichOahu> did i come to you tap?
<&RichOahu> hmm?
<+Tapchou> I was here before you if I remember correctly .
<~t0msky_ES> put ur epenises away
<+Vrasp> no keep them out
<~t0msky_ES> lets go through the sab route
<+Vrasp> i want to fondle them in a minute
<~t0msky_ES> tap
<~t0msky_ES> do u think its set right ?
<+Vrasp> tap thinks what i think
<+Vrasp> =D
<@mashman> anyone sabbing at the moment
<&RichOahu> tap is a ranker, so of course he thinks sab damages are correct
<+Tapchou> RichOahu: I'm not anything, lol..?
<~t0msky_ES> well mebbe they should have the input of sabbers
<+Vrasp> u r gai!!
<&RichOahu> i have seen you m8 in the past ;-0
<+Tapchou> I did over 400 billion damage this age.
<&RichOahu> nothing this age maybe
<~t0msky_ES> without the pettiness
<+Tapchou> I ranked with Phoenix in Age 4.
<+Tapchou> 1*
<~t0msky_ES> for a sabber this game is a fun afternoon
<~t0msky_ES> we dont want to rank
<~t0msky_ES> but we get punished for that
<+Tapchou> Anyhow.
<+Vrasp> tho, RichOahu
<+Vrasp> do you think that tools should take full damage then?
<~t0msky_ES> your game is set for rankers tap
<~t0msky_ES> u need to address that
<+Tapchou> t0msky: Do you think we've sat here for months doing nothing, or..?
<~t0msky_ES> if you make it more playable for small account sabbers<+Tapchou> I think sabbers should get _some_ damage, but not as much as they're getting currently.
<+Vrasp> i do actually want to know what people who mainly sab think about that
<~t0msky_ES> then you will get a lot mroe ppl playing it
<&RichOahu> th sab damage to tools and the ability to mass coverts away were great improvments to the game. but then that was ofset by the adition of sab damage
<~t0msky_ES> tap i donno what u have or havent done
<~t0msky_ES> ive only been back for 9 days
<+Tapchou> t0msky_ES: We aren't fury.
<~t0msky_ES> im taking this form a totally dark perspective
<~t0msky_ES> but u have input into the game dont u tap
<+Tapchou> Our vision for the game is between 7 people, not 1 man (Dennis).
<~t0msky_ES> are all 7 players from a rankers perspective ?
<+Tapchou> No.
<~t0msky_ES> if so
<~t0msky_ES> then its wrong
<+Tapchou> "No".
<&RichOahu> massing coverts was one of the best additions tothe game.
<~t0msky_ES> oik
<~t0msky_ES> ok
<&RichOahu> sab damages one of the worst, if not the worst...
<~t0msky_ES> whos the sabbers in the mix ?
<+Tapchou> t0msky_ES: !
<+Tapchou> Like I stated, Rich.
<&RichOahu> that was all the rankers needed to mass down a pur sab account
<~t0msky_ES> lol tap ur not a sabber
<+Tapchou> t0msky_ES: How does ";)" state it's me?
<+Vrasp> wait i still wanna know what you think about
<+Vrasp> sab damage to covert tools
<+Vrasp> should you do less to tools than to real weapons
<&RichOahu> adding the sab damages to that..... made it almost unplayable
<~t0msky_ES> it implies
<+Tapchou> t0msky_ES: No it doesn't.
<+Tapchou> I do believe sabbers should get some minor damage, but I do agree that the damage this age is too high.
<&RichOahu> covert tool damage from others sabbing you is WAY better than it was before
<~t0msky_ES> of course it does tap, a sneaky smiley winking, after what i said implies its you
<+Tapchou> But ruling out damage 100% is silly and just makes me think sabbers are little pussies (no offense).
<~t0msky_ES> dont be a pedant
<~t0msky_ES> im happy for damage
<~t0msky_ES> but be realistic
<+Tapchou> Well.
<+Tapchou> Rich wants no damage at all.
<&RichOahu> tap.. we play to sab, put 10% damage to Da tools and 10% damage to sa weapons?
<~t0msky_ES> whats ur % set at currently ?
<&RichOahu> i get damaged enough by LOOSING spies to sab and being sabbed back
<+Tapchou> t0msky_ES: Ask Vrasp, I'm off to eat shit food, because I'm fat... and shit.
<&RichOahu> so we get punished in every way for what we like to do
<~t0msky_ES> lol tap
<+Vrasp> [18:52:46] <&RichOahu> tap.. we play to sab, put 10% damage to Da tools and 10% damage to sa weapons?
<+Vrasp> huh
<+Tapchou> RichOahu: Not all players will dare to sabotage someone in a sabotage alliance, you know this.
<~t0msky_ES> u kidding tsap ?
<~t0msky_ES> u wanna read my logs
<+Vrasp> argh you bastards
<~t0msky_ES> i made an account
<+Vrasp> answer meeeeee
<~t0msky_ES> and less than an hr later<&RichOahu> does a slayer take 10% damage to his weapons? does a DA player take 10% damage to his weapons?
<~t0msky_ES> i was being sabbed
<~t0msky_ES> just cos of my name
<+Vrasp> ah
<+Vrasp> well those weapons can be sabbed for more than tools can be sabbed for
<+Vrasp> (which isn't a reason to set it up this way, but i'm assuming you think that tools should take less damage than weapons)
<~t0msky_ES> it works out chaper to recycle sa tho vrasp
<+Vrasp> it does if you recycle it, yeah
<~t0msky_ES> u cant recycle the sab tools
<&RichOahu> we sab a HELL of alot more than they use their tools to slay or to stop attacks
<~t0msky_ES> they damaged regardless
<~t0msky_ES> so we punished twice
<+Vrasp> not if you're sabbing, yeah =P
<+Vrasp> geez
<+Vrasp> i'm talking about when you get sabbed
<+Vrasp> on your tools
<+Vrasp> ie full covert accounts
<&RichOahu> PHNX did billions to me in one day.. the tool damage from sabbs is fine
<&RichOahu> but on top of that, i did billions tomyself to sab back
<+Vrasp> tool damage is 60% of weapon damage
<&RichOahu> and useda fraction of the time that sab tools are used
* snoop (KFC@netadmin.ruinsofchaos.com) has joined #ES
<+Vrasp> Yeah, I'm just sayin'.
<~t0msky_ES> hi snoop
<+Vrasp> If you want 0 repairs...
<+Vrasp> tools should take 100%
<snoop> hi
<&RichOahu> thent he big chains will sab all sentry away and destroy sabbing. you win!
<@mashman> hi
<~t0msky_ES> update snoop
<~t0msky_ES> ns update
<&RichOahu> tell me.. how could we play, and have fun, and a large player base PRIOR to sab damages. then after they went in the population tanked?
<+Vrasp> cuz age 2 killed the game
<+Vrasp> simple
<&RichOahu> for years their was no damage when sabbing. just becasue it was added doesn't make it a good idea
<+Vrasp> But why do you think sab accounts should be less vulnerable than non-sab accounts :x
<&RichOahu> they are not....
<~t0msky_ES> non sab accounts arent less vulnerable
<+Vrasp> You think they should be, obviously
<&RichOahu> the "problem" was not being able to kill coverts
<+Vrasp> no repairs, 60% to tools
<~t0msky_ES> just because a person doesnt wish to sab
<snoop> RichOahu: sab damages were introduced to help balance the game. If you recall a few months ago I looked at how much damage ES took when I got you guys to approve me
<~t0msky_ES> doesnt make their account weaker
<+Vrasp> killing coverts only does real damage if the target has a lot of spies/sentries
<snoop> we made a few changes that have resulted in 5-10% less sab damage
<~t0msky_ES> just makes their desire to play the game weaker
<snoop> part of what sab damages do is they force the sabber to continue to try to grow in order to balance their account's income with the amount of sabbing they do
<&RichOahu> the game was a social game, get together and chain and play. now, you are punished for that
<snoop> a good sabber, as you probably know, has the TBG to support what they do
<&RichOahu> yeah, alot learned in age three that trainign down wa sa mistake
<+Semper> ^ good point
<~t0msky_ES> no snoop not when u implement an 11 million a sab penalty for 40 billion spy<~t0msky_ES> a dedicated sabber
<~t0msky_ES> will sab 50 ppl a day
<+Vrasp> (i think every admin agrees that repairs are currently too high)
<snoop> t0msky_ES: you dno't even know what the new repair formula is
<~t0msky_ES> are you tellning me that s a fair price to pay ?
<&RichOahu> the problem is guys, most are not as crazy as we are. sothey quit.
<~t0msky_ES> the sabber kills his own account
<snoop> so why don't you wait and see before you go off about how we need to completely eliminate it
<~t0msky_ES> i know what the existing one is
<&RichOahu> WE still play, but most said screw it. so even if you think it is right,it isn't
<snoop> t0msky_ES: yeah, and like I said, we reduced sab damages.
<~t0msky_ES> if you have improved on the current one
<~t0msky_ES> then good for u
<snoop> yeah, it is good for me
<~t0msky_ES> but mebbe u should share that information with your players
<snoop> t0msky_ES: key and I had a discussion about it on gua
<snoop> I said I'd tweak the formula.
<snoop> I don't see how that's not communicating.
<~t0msky_ES> have u implemented it now ?
<~t0msky_ES> or for the new age ?
<&RichOahu> is the last post on a dusty thread
<snoop> t0msky_ES: we don't make changes to ages mid game
<snoop> you should know that by now.
<~t0msky_ES> snoop just call me tom
<~t0msky_ES> 7its easier
<snoop> that isn't fair to change age parameters
<~t0msky_ES> snoop = fury ?
<snoop> I'm snoop.
<&RichOahu> no
<~t0msky_ES> k
<~t0msky_ES> and ow are the changes going to affect me if i have 40 billion spy and sab 50 accounts or more per day ?74
<&RichOahu> anyway.... i had gave up.... i wasn't going to play age 4 (i know you guys rejoice) but i am now going to see
<&RichOahu> damn you tom
<~t0msky_ES> ur killing ur own game snoop if you dont address the issues
<snoop> t0msky_ES: shut up abnout the killing the game shit and listen
<~t0msky_ES> do u really wanna see roc go the same way as koc
<snoop> I said we're making changes
<snoop> and I said that you should expect the cost to decrease
<snoop> what else do you want?
<&RichOahu> lol see how thy treat disscusion? glad andy isn't here, he is the best!
<~t0msky_ES> being kept upto speed on ur gua thread would help
<snoop> t0msky_ES: you're welcome to go read it
<~t0msky_ES> im being as nice as i can about this
<snoop> it's not like it's not in a public forum
<~t0msky_ES> dont wanna kick a game admin
<&RichOahu> we have tlaked this to death and it is now called whining ;-)
<snoop> RichOahu: like I said, I said we'd change it
<snoop> and you're still complaining as if I didn't say it
<snoop> what else do you want
<snoop> I don't see how we can do anything else
<~t0msky_ES> info on how u have changed it
<~t0msky_ES> specifics
<&RichOahu> i said: we shall see
<snoop> t0msky_ES: I'd expect 7-15% reduction in costs overall
<snoop> and a more consistent success rate
<&RichOahu> well that would be nice
<&RichOahu> getting me excited
<snoop> which should balance the cost with how much damage you do
<~t0msky_ES> success rate is fine wih me
<snoop> t0msky_ES: the issue is consistency
<~t0msky_ES> its the costs of it in realistic terms
<&RichOahu> ....
<&RichOahu> they don't get it
<snoop> in the success formula
<~t0msky_ES> ur approacing it from the wrong end snoop
<snoop> and whether an extra 1B spy was worth it against someone that had in the neighborhood of 20b SE#
<&RichOahu> ther is your error in thinking
<snoop> t0msky_ES: we didn't reduce the success rate, all in all we simply made it more tight
<snoop> as in you can expect more consistent results for a given spy/sentry ratio
<snoop> and expect that additional spy for large accounts will be slightly more meaningful
<&RichOahu> we WANT to spam large account so they know that we are there. otherwise they don't rea;ise the war, as it would be stupid at this point top sab them
<snoop> RichOahu: you'll still fail, and people with low spies will still fail
<~t0msky_ES> snoop, u say u hae reduced it by 7-15% , that means tat insteade of 12 million a turn penalty i can expext 10.5 a turn, is that fair in your eyes ?
<snoop> they'll fail in a more consistent way, as in the number of failures will be more consistent
<&RichOahu> your damages discurage the 'attempt" and that is an error in the way the game should be. in a mass, everyone at least tries
<&RichOahu> you discourage participation
<snoop> RichOahu: an attempt to sab always needs to have a penalty associated with it
<snoop> because you're damaging someone
<snoop> it needs to cost you money to do so
<&RichOahu> you do, spies die
<~t0msky_ES> the damage comes in the retaliation
<+Vrasp> lol
<&RichOahu> bomgpt0m
<&RichOahu> err bingo t0m
<snoop> RichOahu: a spy dying is 3500 gold + whatever the value of one click credit is
<+Vrasp> like 4 spies per attempt
<snoop> that's not a penalty
<&RichOahu> and me spamming somones logs 10x does nothing to him
<snoop> if you sab 50 people with 25 spies and 12 die each time
<snoop> that's
<&RichOahu> me not getting in DOES NOTHIGN TO HIM
<snoop> 15000 men * 3500
<~t0msky_ES> lol rushing to windows calculator
<+Vrasp> 15000 men?
<&RichOahu> ....
<+Tapchou> t0msky_ES: snoop uses Linux.
<+Tapchou> Also.
<~t0msky_ES> u have lowered the up
<+Tapchou> Rich.
<snoop> so about 52.5m for your day's sabbing
<+Vrasp> I counted 6000
<+Vrasp> wait how did you get 15k men
<+Vrasp>
<+Tapchou> We've stated that the chance of success is more tight.
<snoop> oh wait
<snoop> I did the number of attempts wrong
<snoop> <snoop> yeah
<snoop> so 6000
<snoop> 21m
<snoop> is that a fair penalty for a day's sabbing? I don't really think it is
<&RichOahu> tap.. you were in our sab room, you saw that we want to at least try against all targets. it is the "thought" that counts. but now that is disguraged by sab damages
<snoop> that's why repairs are also in there
<~t0msky_ES> make massing more effective reduce the damage more
<~t0msky_ES> that worked in koc for 3 ages
<~t0msky_ES> till they fucked it up
<~t0msky_ES> i had the biggest sab account in koc, and i got wiped out by being massed and sabbed
<~t0msky_ES> it is very effective when applied right
<snoop> t0msky_ES: yeah but do you not think that the people that sabbed you should haveh ad to pay to sab?
<~t0msky_ES> what youre doing with your damage penalty is discouraging a mehod of play, namely the chaos part of your game
<&RichOahu> covert loss and dying spies was enough.....
<&RichOahu> couple that with reta;iation,and the inability to hold tools...
<~t0msky_ES> no because i had sabbed them
<snoop> t0msky_ES and RichOahu your position is that damage needs to go away completely, I completely disagree with that
<~t0msky_ES> they paid with my actions
<~t0msky_ES> then retaliated
<&RichOahu> PHNX fucked me up m8.. i am so glad VS is idiots.....
<&RichOahu> they knew to mass, i was 200k men short of holding all after PHNX was done with me
<snoop> I agree that it needs to be reduced, and we did that
<~t0msky_ES> it pays to be a ranker in this game
<~t0msky_ES> doesnt pay to be a sabber
<~t0msky_ES> clearly not enough
<snoop> t0msky_ES: you haven't tried it yet
<~t0msky_ES> if u have adjusted it by 7-15%
<snoop> so you can't say.
<&RichOahu> plus 10 bill in damages to my tools, down 8 bill in sentry and 10 bil in sopy. in ONE DAY
<~t0msky_ES> i can do math tho snoop
<&RichOahu> and wee, then i got to fight back..... and take 2 billion more in damage
<snoop> RichOahu: basically you want to devastate rankers but don't want anyone to have recourse.
<~t0msky_ES> if i apply ur % to the current numbers
<~t0msky_ES> im fairly sure i know where u r at for next age
<&RichOahu> IF SAB DAMAGES WER NOT THERE I WAS STILLF UCKED
<snoop> t0msky_ES: the formula changed, that's where I think it should end up.
<&RichOahu> do you not understand?
<+Tapchou> You know, Zach (snoop) has a point, to which you both ignored.
<+Tapchou> You sabotage someone, you get damages.
<~t0msky_ES> snoop which part of their retaliation is the recourse dont you get
<+Tapchou> That person most likely won't return, because you're a sabber.
<snoop> t0msky_ES: the people that sab you are sabbers too
<+Tapchou> If said person does.
<snoop> they also take damage
<&RichOahu> they massed and sabbed me to dust in oje day
<+Tapchou> They also get damages.
<snoop> therefor it's fair
<snoop> you're not accounting for the fact that they also take damage
<snoop> and that damage is the same
<snoop> the way you're arguing it would make sense if only you took damage
<~t0msky_ES> no it isnt<~t0msky_ES> if itsd 1v1 it is
<&RichOahu> ../sigh
<~t0msky_ES> if its 20 vs 1
<&RichOahu> the sab damage t tools is not needed
<~t0msky_ES> then its not
<snoop> t0msky_ES: yeah, but your alliance also masses
<&RichOahu> it is RUINING the game
<snoop> so it's 20v1 in every case against every person
<~t0msky_ES> ignore im in an alliance
<~t0msky_ES> ur killing solo players
<&RichOahu> they already quit tom
<~t0msky_ES> ur fairness is out the window for the sngle player
<snoop> t0msky_ES: solo players should join alliances, it's a team based game
<&RichOahu> they ignored that
<snoop> your other argument was people mass together to be social
<&RichOahu> oh i get it
<snoop> that's contrary to what you're getting at with solo players being screwed
<~t0msky_ES> so its a prerequisite to play
<snoop> isn't it
<~t0msky_ES> to be in a team
<+Tapchou> RichOahu: You've stated it's 'ruining the game' like 25 times now, but you've not provided proper justification to as why it's 1. Killing the game and 2. Proving a decent argument on how to fix it, other than let sabbers run free, fucking people over.
<snoop> t0msky_ES: it isn't a prereq, buit it really helps.
<&RichOahu> omfg
<&RichOahu> tap...
<~t0msky_ES> im talking about solo players to make you better understand you idea of "fairness"
<snoop> t0msky_ES: if you go around as a solo player not pissing people off, sure you can do fine
<snoop> but if you want to take out a whole sabber chain as a solo player?
<snoop> no

RichOahu_ES
14th March 2010, 02:37 PM
<snoop> not gonna happen
<&RichOahu> take a look at the numbers playing. there is the justification
<&RichOahu> i told you why, sab damages
<snoop> if you want to war an alliance as one person you should indeed be at a disadvantage
<&RichOahu> and you fix it by removing them
<+Tapchou> RichOahu: Or... because text based games are simply dying?
<~t0msky_ES> u have made the game untenable for solo players
<~t0msky_ES> actually tap
<&RichOahu> they are on the increase!
<~t0msky_ES> text based games are on the increase
<&RichOahu> go check facebook
<snoop> RichOahu: those are facebook games, those are different in that they are integrated with facebook
<&RichOahu> you made this game punish you for playing it and a large % left
<snoop> if we were integrated with facebook we'd see a similar pattern
<+Tapchou> Most of the Facebook games are in Flash etc and are intergrated into Facebook.
<snoop> RichOahu: why is it all you you you, I didn't write the age 3 code
<snoop> a lot of people left in age 2, fury addressed a lot of that<&RichOahu> i don't care who wrote iyt, you guys defend it, justify it, and are wrong
<snoop> RichOahu: no, we've looked at your ideas, made the changes we thought are appropriate compromise
<snoop> and left it at that
<&RichOahu> and once again, we shalls ee
<snoop> we can't take every idea 100% every time
<~t0msky_ES> snoop the you is a generic term for the mods, of which you are one, if you dont like the association, then dont be a fucking admin
<~t0msky_ES> ur statement was petty and not relevant
<+Tapchou> o_O.
<snoop> t0msky_ES: your mom.
<~t0msky_ES> haha
<&RichOahu> lol
<~t0msky_ES> fu
<~t0msky_ES> ;p
* t0msky_ES sets mode: +v snoop
<&RichOahu> blehh.. what a outpouring of typing.. i felt like i was at work...
<~t0msky_ES> shit i dont type at work
<&RichOahu> my wife is looking at me like wtf...
<~t0msky_ES> i have a secretary for this shit
<&RichOahu> LOL
<&RichOahu> i wish
<&RichOahu> getting to the pont i need one though
<+Vrasp> wait wait wait
<+Vrasp> i dont wanna read all of this
<+Vrasp> but "you're ruining it for solo players"
<&RichOahu> solo player is screwed
<+Vrasp> and making it easier for a chain to sab that solo player makes things better for him?
<~t0msky_ES> snoop im trying to make you understand your "fairness" is set against the sabbers
<~t0msky_ES> you are turning your game into a rankers only game
<+Vrasp> So if a whole chain can sab one player and not take damages to themself
<+Vrasp> That helps that solo playe ra bunch doesn't it
<&RichOahu> the solo guy that was pure coverts had to be ruined
<+snoop> t0msky_ES: we're trying to make it so there's a benefit to balancing
<~t0msky_ES> u need to address that or see your game slowly disappear
<~t0msky_ES> but some ppl dont want to rank
<~t0msky_ES> dont you get it
<~t0msky_ES> some ppl love the chaos side
<~t0msky_ES> a single player loves to fight a clan
<+snoop> t0msky_ES: you always need to have some balance
<+snoop> to make it a fair game
<+Vrasp> would it be fair for a single player to own a clan?
<&RichOahu> but if that solo player holds his weapons, and can be sabbed back, you punish him hard with damages to his tools
<+snoop> and so that the outcome of the age is meaningful
<+snoop> RichOahu: ok, think about it this way
<~t0msky_ES> but u have no balance with the damage implementation u currently have
<+snoop> in real life
<+snoop> if 10 guys attack you
<&RichOahu> the only change that was needed was the covert massing. truley..
<+snoop> they will beat your ass
<&RichOahu> before the damages went into effect, and covert massing wasn't their. a pure covert account ruled
<+snoop> having a game where 1 person can wreck an entire alliance makes the game unfair to the 10
<+snoop> especially when those 10 all have similar stats to that one person
<&RichOahu> and that was fixed with covert massing snoop...
<&RichOahu> mass his ass and he is done, why on top of that damage his tools for trying to fight back?<+snoop> basically what you're getting at would be a limit on the number of damage that can be done to one person in one day
<+snoop> which would result in how KoC wrecked sabbing
<~t0msky_ES> for 3 ages koc had the game perfect
<~t0msky_ES> but then decided to change it and it all went out the window
<&RichOahu> no... not asking for any sweeping changes..... it is so simple....
<+snoop> t0msky_ES: yet people left in huge numbers during those ages!
<+snoop> look at the number of players from age 3 to age 4
<&RichOahu> wasn't real people
<~t0msky_ES> most ppl left when they removed sabbing completely
<+snoop> someone had to be behind the multies
<&RichOahu> they stopped their 10 fakes
<~t0msky_ES> it went from 200k to 90k in less than an age
<+Vrasp> I really think you're overestimating massing someone
<~t0msky_ES> it then stayed steady at around 80 for 3 or 4 ages
<+Vrasp> It is only effective if the person has a ton of coverts
<~t0msky_ES> then reduced as they fucked it up mroe
<~t0msky_ES> now the admins play and a couple of odd ppl
<+snoop> t0msky_ES: part of the issue was they stopped offering an xbox as a prize
<+snoop> if you put xbox prize on something, yeah you're gonna have 200k players
<+snoop> that's why age 2 had 200k players
<~t0msky_ES> lol u overestimate the value of an xbox
<+snoop> t0msky_ES: there were 10 prizes, my best friend won one of them
<~t0msky_ES> there is only 2 reasons i play roc
<+snoop> we were all playing so he'd win an xbox
<~t0msky_ES> the pl who are my friends
<~t0msky_ES> and the sabbing fun we have
<&RichOahu> heh, with a prize.. people will give up in wars faster ;-P
<~t0msky_ES> lol prizes mean nothing
<~t0msky_ES> if i wanna xbox ill go buy one
<+snoop> t0msky_ES: here's the thing, if we remove sab damages, then when you sab the shit out of rankers and don't pay shit for it, they won't have any more weapons and then they'll quit
<+snoop> that's a balancing issue
<~t0msky_ES> altho i already have every console available
<+Vrasp> Can I ask something without you guys bitching at each other again until I get my answer
<&RichOahu> DING DING!!! they can sab and mass back
<+snoop> RichOahu: eyah but in doing so they already take the same damages as you
<~t0msky_ES> not at all snoop, this addresses the issue for all sides
<&RichOahu> then HOW is that different then removing the damages?
<~t0msky_ES> they retaliate
<~t0msky_ES> they organise masses and sab aprties
<+Vrasp> RichOahu: What is your ideal method of fixing the problems with sabotage?
<+snoop> t0msky_ES: doesn't ES have masses?
<&RichOahu> so both are punished? how does that make sense in your argument?
<~t0msky_ES> i ttried t explain to tap bfore
<+snoop> isn't part of the point of the game
<+snoop> to get together
<~t0msky_ES> i had biggest sab account in koc
<+snoop> and own the shit out of someone
<+snoop> as an alliance
<~t0msky_ES> i was raped by des 4repeatedly they massed me down from 900k men to 1k men in a week
<+snoop> if another alliance happens to take exception to you sabbing them for the lulz
<&RichOahu> i love sabbing, but the sab damages make it crappy. period. it is so easy vrasp
<~t0msky_ES> they sabbed all my weapons
<+snoop> t0msky_ES: well let me talk for a second<+snoop> I see something really inconsistent in your argument
<+Vrasp> So you think removing repairs completely will balance sabotage?
<+snoop> and I want to explain what that is
<+snoop> 1. you see the ideal as DES owned the shit out of you in KoC
<+snoop> 2. You want to avoid having masses own the shit out of a single
<&RichOahu> sure as hell wouldn't hurt. tell me, why do alot of people not sab back? i know why.. it is the damage they will take to their tools
<+snoop> do you see the logical inconsistency there?
<&RichOahu> they can run away by just enduring it
<&RichOahu> along with the high up
<&RichOahu> le tthe sabbers kill their own accounts
<~t0msky_ES> no snoop ur misunderstanding the point
<~t0msky_ES> let me explain now
<+snoop> RichOahu: well UP is also less of a factor in the new age
<&RichOahu> i hope so
<~t0msky_ES> hang on key
<+snoop> because the highest UP will be 32k (also on gua) and it will cost more to get to.
<+Vrasp> It's actually quite hard to really harm a sabotage account.
<+Vrasp> The only real way to do it is if they have a lot of spies and are already holding everything.
<~t0msky_ES> no vrasp it isnt
<+Vrasp> If they have less than like 1,000,000 spies, attacking them does fuck all.
<+Vrasp> And yes it is =P
<~t0msky_ES> let me hae my say now snoop
<+Vrasp> Look at BSS. They're runnin' strong.
<~t0msky_ES> about ur inconsistency
<~t0msky_ES> it isnt an inconsistency
<~t0msky_ES> im saying that
<~t0msky_ES> if an individual wants to sab a chain as you put it for the lulz7
<~t0msky_ES> then let him
<~t0msky_ES> the chain will then mass and sab that account
<~t0msky_ES> but where i have issue is
<+Vrasp> (What's to prevent them from doing that anyway and him being defenseless?)
<~t0msky_ES> youre punishing that account and every other account for retaliating
<~t0msky_ES> ur making the account kill itself for defending or attacking
<~t0msky_ES> thats not how it should work
<~t0msky_ES> there is no incosistency
<~t0msky_ES> by adding your damages
<~t0msky_ES> u have made it inconsistent
<~t0msky_ES> and nfair
<+Vrasp> (What's to prevent them from doing that anyway and him being defenseless?)
<+snoop> so you're saying I'm punishing the people in the alliance for retaliating against the individual
<+snoop> but you're also saying that the alliance can wreck an individual too much
<~t0msky_ES> the fact if a clan randomly picks on a solo account vrasp
<~t0msky_ES> he hsa no recourse
<&RichOahu> same argument we had snoop
<~t0msky_ES> if he tries to defend himself
<~t0msky_ES> he kills himself
<+Vrasp> And a clan should be able to annihilate a solo account with no penalty?
<~t0msky_ES> its retarded
<+snoop> well if we removed damages, then the alliance would no longer have anything to hurt it if it does go after that solo account
<+Vrasp> If you remove repairs, they have no penalty.
<+snoop> and wouldn't that just make it worse for that person?
<+Vrasp> They'll annihilate the solo account before he can do anything back.
<~t0msky_ES> his retaliation is the penalty
<&RichOahu> the solo account alreay took more from the alliance than his account is worth, so hell yeah
<+Vrasp> He can't retaliate, the alliance already destroyed him.
<~t0msky_ES> but hges denied that retaliation
<~t0msky_ES> because of the damages he does to himself
<+Vrasp> He can't. Nothing left. Alliance wrecked him.
<+Vrasp> What do you not understand about this?
<+snoop> t0msky_ES: the combined damage on that alliance's tools will be higher than that individual's tools
<+Vrasp> If there's no repairs for sabbing....one alliance destroys an account and he can no longer do anything back.
<~t0msky_ES> they couldnt mass him to death or sab him to death in one go
<&RichOahu> thats where it seems jack comes in
<&RichOahu> he is then "jacked"
<&RichOahu> t0m prob doesn't know about jack
<~t0msky_ES> 7it takes a while to kill an account
<~t0msky_ES> giving him a chance to fight back
<~t0msky_ES> ?
<~t0msky_ES> what is it
<&RichOahu> you can only sab so much before the game revents you from sabbing a person fully
<~t0msky_ES> ok
<&RichOahu> limits you to only 1 spy on them
<~t0msky_ES> kk
<&RichOahu> maybe they need to bring jack in sooner
<+snoop> yeah the jack bauer effect does apply at a certain point
<~t0msky_ES> that means that the clan who started on the poor guy would then have to revert to massing
<~t0msky_ES> that costs them
<~t0msky_ES> damages him
<~t0msky_ES> but at least he can fight back
<&RichOahu> costs huge.. mercs are not free
<&RichOahu> 10k a pop on massing hurts LOL
<~t0msky_ES> ya and that means that even solo players can play the game too
<~t0msky_ES> sabbers get urt
<~t0msky_ES> rankers can rank and get hurt
<~t0msky_ES> wheres the issue
<~t0msky_ES> as it is with your damage implementation
<~t0msky_ES> the guy would kill himself while the clan laughed their collective cock off
<+Vrasp> Oh.
<+Vrasp> So now you like the repairs?
<~t0msky_ES> i can prove the point to you if you want
<+Vrasp> =P
<~t0msky_ES> ill pick a random
<~t0msky_ES> and rape his account with es
<~t0msky_ES> some poor solo guy
<+Vrasp> I dunno, BSS is doing alright, despite repairs.
<~t0msky_ES> minding his own business
<~t0msky_ES> they a clan vrasp
<~t0msky_ES> they get sells
<+snoop> t0msky_ES: so if you can do that, then the alliance isn't taking too many dmaages and they aren't demotivated from sabbing
<+Vrasp> t0msky_ES: just because you can destroy a solo account now doesn't mean you _wouldn't_ be able to without repairs.
<~t0msky_ES> but the point im making is this
<~t0msky_ES> the solo guy cant retaliate
<~t0msky_ES> against a clan
<~t0msky_ES> he sabs 50 ppl
<~t0msky_ES> his accounts dead
<&RichOahu> we let BSS off the hook a couple weeks ago... they were screwed till we focused on VS
<~t0msky_ES> he kills himself
<~t0msky_ES> then goes inactive
<+Vrasp> He can't retaliate anyway.
<~t0msky_ES> another player gone
<+Vrasp> Even without repairs.
<~t0msky_ES> of course he can vrasp
<~t0msky_ES> he sabs back
<+Vrasp> Not realistically, dude.
<+Vrasp> okay, and then he gets sabbed again the next day
<~t0msky_ES> well realistically he couldnt
<~t0msky_ES> but this is a game scenario
<+Vrasp> Alright then your argument doesn't matter.
<+snoop> t0msky_ES: come on now, I've sabbed 50 people before with 20b spy when I was in CDE... I was able to pay off both the damages from the alliance and the damage I did to myself within 1 day and then grow some
<+Vrasp> Realistically within the game, he couldn't.
<~t0msky_ES> it does in a game scenario ffs
<+snoop> it just took me banking on a frequent basis
<~t0msky_ES> get ur head out ur ass
<+snoop> and spending attack turns
<+Vrasp> My head is in my ass
<+Vrasp> but you've been playing for 9 days
<~t0msky_ES> i know
<+Vrasp> and listening to rich
<~t0msky_ES> no
<+Vrasp> and think that you have a solid knowledge on the subject
<~t0msky_ES> i see what i see
<+Vrasp> Yes, I'm the one with the head in my ass.
<~t0msky_ES> am i a fucking lemming over here
<+Vrasp> You are right.
<+Vrasp> I'm sorry.
<+Vrasp> You are absolutely 100% correct.
<~t0msky_ES> dont patronise me m8
<+Vrasp> A solo player would destroy the fuck out of a whole alliance if sabotage repairs weren't in.
<~t0msky_ES> argue coherently im not some snotty lil kid
<+Vrasp> He could realistically do that within the game.
<+snoop> t0msky_ES: you first.
<+Vrasp> Oh, I'm speaking coherently!
<+Vrasp> And I didn't start the insults. My head was in my ass, I didn't know what I was doing.
<~t0msky_ES> no a single account couldnt kill an alliance
<~t0msky_ES> the alliance works as asingle entity
<~t0msky_ES> it kills any account
<~t0msky_ES> as it is now
<+snoop> I'm going to go back to writing code, but you guys need to understand we made changes to address some of your concerns, and the admins think that you're not taking every factor into account
<+snoop> we reserve the right to do so
<~t0msky_ES> the single account couldnt even defend itself
<+snoop> and you have the right to find out what w've done in beta 1
<+snoop> if it still isn't enough we can still continue to make changes
* +Tapchou strokes RichOahu's leg.
<~t0msky_ES> snoop the majority of your players, like the chaos in the game,l if you destroy the ability for that chaos, change the game name or change whats ruining that ability for chaos
<~t0msky_ES> controlld chaos is good
<+Tapchou> t0msky.
<~t0msky_ES> no chaos isnt
<+Vrasp> repairs cause chaos amongst sabbers
<+Vrasp> It is great. More chaos.
<+Tapchou> Listen to me for a moment.
<+snoop> part of what makes the game chaotic and more difficult to predict is by introducing more variables
<+snoop> damage is an additional variable.
<+snoop> but the game can't be so chaotic that it's simply unbalanced, in the end someone has to win
<+snoop> and someone has to lose
<+Vrasp> (repairs should be reduced though )
* Minato (kyle_amo07@563493.FA2B18.3CAA48.0F5F9E) has joined #ES
<~t0msky_ES> vrasp sabbers suffer the penalty in more ways, they get massed lose men, they sab get damages, they get sabbed more damages....wheres the fairness, may as well remove sabbing altogether
<+Tapchou> When me and snoop decided to take on RoC a few months ago, we stated that the game is getting easier, we worked for a few nights proving that it's getting easier by the age, we wanted to change that and make it a lot harder, you'll notice in Age 4 that the UP has decreased and that the prices are more than 4* to what the equiv. is for Age 3, we are making shit harder
<Minato> patronize*
<+Vrasp> Maybe capped at like, 15% of what you do rather than the possibility of 100%
<+Tapchou> for all types of players, not just 'killing' sabotage, as you suggest.
<+Vrasp> t0msky_ES: Do you think it's fair that someone with 1/3 of another person's sentry in spy can sabotage that person?
<+Tapchou> We aren't perfect and the main thing we want in Age 4's Beta periods, is people to test sabotage.
<+Tapchou> Myself and snoop agreed that if we feel people are clicking and hardly anybody is sabbing, we'll disable clicking for short periods of time, so people sabotage.
* t0msky_ES sets mode: +v Minato
<+Tapchou> We also want people to report feedback.
<+snoop> and you know you're not the only alliance making suggestions and giving us feedback
<+Tapchou> So we'll provide IRC and other means to do so.
<~t0msky_ES> no vrasp i dont
<+snoop> if we listened to only one person or alliance
<+Vrasp> Do you want that to be changed?
<~t0msky_ES> yes
<~t0msky_ES> do u think i want it all the sabbers way ?
<+Vrasp> So then rankers will have the advantage, yes?
<+snoop> then we'd make the game like KoC was in age 5, when they fucked up a few of the formulas due to what PR said
<~t0msky_ES> i dont but i do want sabbers to have a chance at playing, i also want solo players to have a chance
<~t0msky_ES> is that so bad
<~t0msky_ES> no vrasp
<+Vrasp> Since rankers bank, and can therefore get more sentry AND more spy to wreak more havoc.
<+Vrasp> No?
<~t0msky_ES> thats where massing comes in
<~t0msky_ES> implement where men can be lsot when hit
<+Vrasp> Massing only works if you win the attack.
<&RichOahu> they said they will reduce damages. we shall see. that is about the only gripe i have about the game (except UP) so we shall see
<~t0msky_ES> variable amount for small SA that doesnt flee
<+Vrasp> Well if RichOahu is satisfied
<~t0msky_ES> i know and that wrong too vrasp
<+Vrasp> Then I am satisfied
<~t0msky_ES> both sides should lose men
<&RichOahu> suck it
<~t0msky_ES> its a conflict
<&RichOahu> ;-P
<~t0msky_ES> jsut because my guns bigger
<~t0msky_ES> doesnt mean my army wont lsoe some men
<+Vrasp> Well they do both lose men
<+Vrasp> Just, the coverts don't die unless you win the attack.
<+Vrasp> Unless the attacker wins the attack*
<~t0msky_ES> there is always spies in the field
<~t0msky_ES> there should be a variable for how many
<~t0msky_ES> so btoh sides would lose some spies
<~t0msky_ES> sentries etc
<+Vrasp> Well I'm satisfied since RichOahu is happy.
<~t0msky_ES> the guys looking ofr your charging army are gonna die as well
<+Vrasp> So I'm done with this discussion =D
<&RichOahu> time for me to get ready to paty. was fun..... well.. was interesting anyway. have a good night guys
<~t0msky_ES> b good key m8
<~t0msky_ES> im off to sab TC

snoop
14th March 2010, 02:42 PM
<&RichOahu> for years their was no damage when sabbing. just becasue it was added doesn't make it a good idea

You said no damage. That isn't going to happen, we've hashed out why we disagree with it. Other sab clans disagree with you, that's how it is. I'm sorry, we're not going to entertain the notion of having 0 damage on sab, not now, not ever, never. You know that, and I hope you've read the reasons I've given you. I think it's incredibly short sighted to remove that damage, it'd bring back untouchable sabbers.

Part of what the problem was the lone sabbers, which you mentioned. Damage was added because casualties wouldn't be enough, they'd just click to make those up. You may not have asked for damage but it helped to smooth that feature out. We've taken an incremental step in making that factor a bit better.

In addition, if you remember when we discussed it I determined that damages needed to go down. We made (as I said) 2 changes 1 direct, one indirect that will result in lower damage to sabbers.


Also damage isn't retaliation, it's a factor in determining what you should do and who should be involved. It's there for both the reason of making it take effort to run a sab account, and for the reason of making you think about who you sab.

RichOahu_ES
14th March 2010, 04:17 PM
you still don't get it.

we sab all. why pick who we have to sab? toss a bomb out and it picks who it hits? maybe does less damage to one building becasue it is tougher, but it doesn't "pick".

shoot an armored target or non armored target, the bullet is the same, one it does damage to, the other it does't.

tell me how sab damage stops anyone? except for a un needed cost.

ask PHNX if they think they are unable to stop accounts?

ask that poor sob last age that pissed off everyone in the game and was grounded into a pulp if the lone target can't be taken out.

the idea of "picking" targts is STUPID. we run mass lists and i guess we should include now, um, don't try this one, it si sony for two or three of the top accounts to try for it.

the point in a mass, and this game, is participation. why should it hurt to try and sab? why? why? why? a try hurts no one. well, except the person sabbing that is. tell me how that makes sense?

i shoot a gun at something, i miss, but it hurts me. DOH, that makes sense? i shoot a gun at someone, i miss, they then shoot back and hit me, yeah, that makes sense.

i guess your idea is the top 10 people only playing against each other. as it hurts too bad to try and sab through their sentry. LIGHTBULB ahhhh, that makes sense, it is ranker protection. ;-P

Don-
14th March 2010, 04:51 PM
take it to PM ladies, no-one is gonna waste 20 minutes to read this shit. why make a thread?

~Don.

Vrasp
14th March 2010, 05:34 PM
you still don't get it.

we sab all. why pick who we have to sab? toss a bomb out and it picks who it hits? maybe does less damage to one building becasue it is tougher, but it doesn't "pick".

shoot an armored target or non armored target, the bullet is the same, one it does damage to, the other it does't.

tell me how sab damage stops anyone? except for a un needed cost.

ask PHNX if they think they are unable to stop accounts?

ask that poor sob last age that pissed off everyone in the game and was grounded into a pulp if the lone target can't be taken out.

the idea of "picking" targts is STUPID. we run mass lists and i guess we should include now, um, don't try this one, it si sony for two or three of the top accounts to try for it.

the point in a mass, and this game, is participation. why should it hurt to try and sab? why? why? why? a try hurts no one. well, except the person sabbing that is. tell me how that makes sense?

i shoot a gun at something, i miss, but it hurts me. DOH, that makes sense? i shoot a gun at someone, i miss, they then shoot back and hit me, yeah, that makes sense.

i guess your idea is the top 10 people only playing against each other. as it hurts too bad to try and sab through their sentry. LIGHTBULB ahhhh, that makes sense, it is ranker protection. ;-P

Well, Tom said that he thinks you should only be able to sab people if you have more spy than they have sentry. . .is that ranker protection? Is it ranker hate that you can sab people with only 1/3 of their sentry in spy?

snoop
14th March 2010, 05:49 PM
It means don't let your approved list grow to 100 people because it serves as a motivation not to approve someone for a whole age when you have to sab other people.

What I do get, and TAPZ told me this today, why ES doesn't organize masses together so only one person is breaking your targets instead of so many of you not having turns.