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Spirits
3rd January 2010, 12:15 PM
Our we trying to take sabbing out of the GAME again?



Your intelligence division estimates the cost for tormented_creature to recover: 5,000,000 Gold

Your weapon damage cost: 2,122,652 Gold

stonewall
3rd January 2010, 12:51 PM
My repairs are inline with my damage overall about 10% repair cost to damage on average even sabbing tools from little girls :o

EdThaSt0rm`
3rd January 2010, 01:00 PM
It sure seems like sabotage damage has been increased since last age.

Outrageous numbers of repairs =/

Doesn't mather who I sab, big or small guys, I get the same amount of damage on my tools.

It was way more balanced last age.

The smaller the target, the smaller your damage, that's how it should be.

Spirits
3rd January 2010, 01:16 PM
My repairs are inline with my damage overall about 10% repair cost to damage on average even sabbing tools from little girls :o


The Ex: I showed is real and near 50%

It does not hold at that % just noticed that my repairs have gotten crazy

GodsDesire
3rd January 2010, 01:52 PM
Your intelligence division estimates the cost for Caine to recover: 2,200,000 Gold

Your weapon damage cost: 655,260 Gold

28% (guesstimate) on that one..

ThOrN-
3rd January 2010, 01:54 PM
Lol I've brought this up so far.


Your intelligence division estimates the cost for XXX to recover: 3,945,000 Gold
Your weapon damage cost: 1,091,323 Gold

Lol... Repairs have Always been a problem with no one giving a solution just moaning about it. I find it stupid that i sab with 1 spy 1 tool worth 50,000 and get 1 Mill repair cost? O.O

Idk Make weapons cost more and reduce repair costs? Or make tools with more strength... or revert to slaying instead of sabbing :P

' Originally Posted by ThOrN- View Post
Okay i need something explaining to me if im being dumb please someone spell this out for me...

Your covert operations center orders 1 spy to attempt to sabotage 155 Mauls.

Your spy sneaks into XXX's command center, and sabotages 155 Mauls.

Your intelligence division estimates the cost for XXXto recover: 2,325,000 Gold

Your weapon damage cost: 379,644 Gold

I sent 1 spy... so obviously he'd only bring 1 pickaxe with him, yes? In this case its a Cloak which has a cost of 50,000 Gold.

My question how can i have an item worth 50,000 have 379,644 gold worth of damages? I just dont understand O.O'

stonewall
3rd January 2010, 02:26 PM
The Ex: I showed is real and near 50%

It does not hold at that % just noticed that my repairs have gotten crazy

I know your example is real ;p i meant the average over all the sabs so far for me is about 10%

Spirits
3rd January 2010, 04:00 PM
Just sabbed 4 accounts checked Repairs

You have damaged weapons!
The cost to repair is 44,096,654 Gold.

Now how can i justify chaining all of VS like I have been since war started ?

Guess I'll have to pick and choose

Tapchou
3rd January 2010, 04:09 PM
You're damaging other weapons weapons and you expect your cost to cost next to nothing, I don't really get that.



Your intelligence division estimates the cost for x to recover: 11,685,000 Gold.
Your weapon damage cost: 1,074,528 Gold.
-
Your intelligence division estimates the cost for x to recover: 11,685,000 Gold.
Your weapon damage cost: 1,363,824 Gold.
-
Your intelligence division estimates the cost for x to recover: 7,020,000 Gold.
Your weapon damage cost: 1,115,856 Gold.
-
Your intelligence division estimates the cost for x to recover: 7,020,000 Gold.
Your weapon damage cost: 1,012,536 Gold.
-
Your intelligence division estimates the cost for M3J to recover: 2,985,000 Gold.
Your weapon damage cost: 0 Gold.
-
Your intelligence division estimates the cost for M3J to recover: 2,985,000 Gold.
Your weapon damage cost: 1,285,861 Gold.
-
Your intelligence division estimates the cost for M3J to recover: 2,985,000 Gold.
Your weapon damage cost: 1,265,451 Gold.
-
Your intelligence division estimates the cost for M3J to recover: 2,985,000 Gold.
Your weapon damage cost: 1,122,577 Gold.
-
Your intelligence division estimates the cost for M3J to recover: 2,985,000 Gold.
Your weapon damage cost: 0 Gold.
-
Your intelligence division estimates the cost for M3J to recover: 2,985,000 Gold.
Your weapon damage cost: 1,224,630 Gold.
-
Your intelligence division estimates the cost for M3J to recover: 2,985,000 Gold.
Your weapon damage cost: 0 Gold.
-
Your intelligence division estimates the cost for M3J to recover: 2,985,000 Gold.
Your weapon damage cost: 0 Gold.
-
Your intelligence division estimates the cost for x to recover: 570,000 Gold.
Your weapon damage cost: 0 Gold.
-
Your intelligence division estimates the cost for x to recover: 570,000 Gold.
Your weapon damage cost: 0 Gold.
-
Your intelligence division estimates the cost for x to recover: 570,000 Gold.
Your weapon damage cost: 132,606 Gold.
-
Your intelligence division estimates the cost for x to recover: 570,000 Gold.
Your weapon damage cost: 0 Gold.
-
Your intelligence division estimates the cost for x to recover: 4,785,000 Gold.
Your weapon damage cost: 0 Gold.
-
Your intelligence division estimates the cost for x to recover: 4,785,000 Gold.
Your weapon damage cost: 0 Gold.
-
Your intelligence division estimates the cost for x to recover: 4,785,000 Gold.
Your weapon damage cost: 1,502,868 Gold.
-
Your intelligence division estimates the cost for x to recover: 4,785,000 Gold.
Your weapon damage cost: 1,193,454 Gold.
-
Your intelligence division estimates the cost for x to recover: 19,400,000 Gold.
Your weapon damage cost: 0 Gold.
-
Your intelligence division estimates the cost for x to recover: 19,400,000 Gold.
Your weapon damage cost: 1,105,050 Gold.
-
Your intelligence division estimates the cost for x to recover: 19,400,000 Gold.
Your weapon damage cost: 0 Gold.
-
Your intelligence division estimates the cost for x to recover: 19,400,000 Gold.
Your weapon damage cost: 1,480,767 Gold.
-
Your intelligence division estimates the cost for x to recover: 10,170,000 Gold.
Your weapon damage cost: 0 Gold.
-
Your intelligence division estimates the cost for x to recover: 10,170,000 Gold.
Your weapon damage cost: 0 Gold.
-
Your intelligence division estimates the cost for x to recover: 10,170,000 Gold.
Your weapon damage cost: 0 Gold.
-
Your intelligence division estimates the cost for x to recover: 2,160,000 Gold.
Your weapon damage cost: 0 Gold.
-
Your intelligence division estimates the cost for x to recover: 30,060,000 Gold.
Your weapon damage cost: 1,326,060 Gold.
-
Your intelligence division estimates the cost for x to recover: 7,800,000 Gold.
Your weapon damage cost: 1,458,666 Gold.
-
Your intelligence division estimates the cost for x to recover: 7,800,000 Gold.
Your weapon damage cost: 1,193,454 Gold.
-
Your intelligence division estimates the cost for x to recover: 22,830,000 Gold.
Your weapon damage cost: 0 Gold.
-
Your intelligence division estimates the cost for x to recover: 22,830,000 Gold.
Your weapon damage cost: 0 Gold.
-
Your intelligence division estimates the cost for x to recover: 22,830,000 Gold.
Your weapon damage cost: 0 Gold.
-
Your intelligence division estimates the cost for x to recover: 22,830,000 Gold.
Your weapon damage cost: 1,012,500 Gold.
-
Your intelligence division estimates the cost for x (not active) to recover: 16,530,000 Gold.
Your weapon damage cost: 698,250 Gold.
-
Your intelligence division estimates the cost for x (not active) to recover: 16,530,000 Gold.
Your weapon damage cost: 684,000 Gold.
-
Your intelligence division estimates the cost for x (not active) to recover: 16,530,000 Gold.
Your weapon damage cost: 712,500 Gold.
-
Your intelligence division estimates the cost for Frosted-Butts to recover: 270,000 Gold.
Your weapon damage cost: 0 Gold.


All my logs from this age... I don't see the damage on myself to be _as_ bad as you're all making out, paste 25+ logs, don't just pick the ones with the highest damage..? On average the repairs are fine, yes - you get high repairs every now and then.


It sure seems like sabotage damage has been increased since last age.

Outrageous numbers of repairs =/

Doesn't mather who I sab, big or small guys, I get the same amount of damage on my tools.

It was way more balanced last age.

The smaller the target, the smaller your damage, that's how it should be.

It's the exact same as last age, this Age is a copy of last age with tweaks/new features to increase the amount of fun.

Pauly_D
3rd January 2010, 04:38 PM
Sabotage Damage 1,689,378,000 Gold
Sabotage Cost 226,746,972 Gold

13% average, but checking my logs it usually costs the same amount in damage to sab 14mil at a time than 4mil at a time.

pigsfoot
3rd January 2010, 08:33 PM
You're damaging other weapons weapons and you expect your cost to cost next to nothing, I don't really get that.



All my logs from this age... I don't see the damage on myself to be _as_ bad as you're all making out, paste 25+ logs, don't just pick the ones with the highest damage..? On average the repairs are fine, yes - you get high repairs every now and then.



It's the exact same as last age, this Age is a copy of last age with tweaks/new features to increase the amount of fun.

I agree Tap, the ones who moan are the ones getting their ass owned, and I see it's ES are doing the moaning LMFAO :rofl:

Gambino
3rd January 2010, 08:46 PM
Sabotage Damage 10,664,669,000 Gold
Sabotage Cost 876,583,539 Gold


0.082195
Looks ok to me.

Spirits
3rd January 2010, 08:56 PM
I agree Tap, the ones who moan are the ones getting their ass owned, and I see it's ES are doing the moaning LMFAO :rofl:

Might want to wipe your lips off PIG :icon_laug



Hmmmmmmmmmm! here an ex: of my last 10 sabs

Your intelligence division estimates the cost for * to recover: 9,030,000 Gold

Your weapon damage cost: 0 Gold


Your intelligence division estimates the cost for * to recover: 9,030,000 Gold

Your weapon damage cost: 1,726,933 Gold


Your intelligence division estimates the cost for * to recover: 9,030,000 Gold

Your weapon damage cost: 1,999,111 Gold


Your intelligence division estimates the cost for * to recover: 9,030,000 Gold

Your weapon damage cost: 1,596,375 Gold


Your spies attempt to sneak into *'s armory, but are spotted by enemy sentries and forced to flee. 4 of your spies were unable to escape capture and interrogation.

Your weapon damage cost: 0 Gold


Your intelligence division estimates the cost for * to recover: 15,040,000 Gold

Your weapon damage cost: 1,864,816 Gold


Your spies attempt to sneak into *'s armory, but are spotted by enemy sentries and forced to flee. 4 of your spies were unable to escape capture and interrogation.

Your weapon damage cost: 1,730,745 Gold


Your spies attempt to sneak into *'s armory, but are spotted by enemy sentries and forced to flee. 5 of your spies were unable to escape capture and interrogation.

Your weapon damage cost: 0 Gold


Your intelligence division estimates the cost for * to recover: 15,040,000 Gold

Your weapon damage cost: 0 Gold


Your spies attempt to sneak into *'s armory, but are spotted by enemy sentries and forced to flee. 5 of your spies were unable to escape capture and interrogation.

Your weapon damage cost: 1,999,186 Gold


Caused 66,200,000 damage
You have damaged weapons!
The cost to repair is 10,917,169 Gold Close to 16%

But I won't stop sabbing It's why I play
Sabotage Damage 37,445,558,999 Gold

Vrasp
3rd January 2010, 10:23 PM
Usually when the damage done : damage taken ratio is really bad, it's because you fail a ton. Be smarter about who you sab if you don't want the damages?

cata-ro
4th January 2010, 12:36 AM
I have the same repairs like last age 10 % average

Sabotage Damage 26,508,823,000 Gold
Sabotage Cost 2,985,886,867 Gold

I send 25 spies all the time maybe if u send less spies the repairs will not be so high dunno :rant:

rabbitohs
4th January 2010, 01:08 AM
Sabotage Damage 960,895,000 Gold
Sabotage Cost 63,206,523 Gold
= 6%

Last age i had just over 10% Cost

rabbitohs
4th January 2010, 01:32 AM
I think sab costs are fine. Its the players who need to learn to stratigize more.

Someone with really high spy cant afford to sab lower ranked players as its not benificial. They need the lower ranked spy alliance members to get them instead.

It makes the game more alliance based, which is what the admins aim at to keep it fun

pilferer
4th January 2010, 02:23 AM
Sabotage Damage 310,453,000 Gold
Sabotage Cost 31,119,329 Gold

mines about 10%

Valheru_Prince
4th January 2010, 02:34 AM
Sabotage Damage 2,385,093,000 Gold
Sabotage Cost 129,204,361 Gold

thats like 5% ?

though i have to be fair, i don't sab much and atm i'm sabbing without tools, might save on damages as well :p

Pedro
4th January 2010, 08:15 AM
Sabotage Damage 3,481,081,000 Gold
Sabotage Cost 399,545,710 Gold

11.47%.

I dont have high spy so I cant sab as much as others can.

Tapchou
4th January 2010, 08:36 AM
Sabotage damage and damage caused by sabotaging is stored in the database for all users, I'll do some queries in a few hours and pull up the real statistics and averages.

We do care about what you think, but the truth is that during beta periods, people click, click and click, they don't sit there and mass people or sabotage as many people as they can, they try to rank like a real age and boast about their rank, this is one reason we randomly took down the Age 3 Beta one age and stated we aren't going to generate ranks for it.

Age 4 Beta, I think we're going to close the recruiter for a few days and run spy/sabotage based events a lot more (Beta 1 most likely won't have events, we will continue to develop Age 4 as people are testing). People will get errors, we will reset accounts and do roll-backs, yeah... as always, people are going to bitch but, if you want to take part in the beta do it to test and not to rank, you only have yourselves to blame when in the middle of a real age sabotage isn't all that cracked up to be, because people didn't dedicate time testing, instead people just wanted to rank.

Hm, back in a few hours, need to finally get the Age 4 design out to snoop (curves + jQuery ftw).

ThomMerrilin
4th January 2010, 08:43 AM
Sabotage Damage 10,363,791,998 Gold
Sabotage Cost 769,041,038 Gold

I send 25 for the most part, and I do sab some lower valued people.

Tapchou is 104.64% right though, rankers always ruin everything. just disallow clicking in the BETA, and then it'll be a free-for-all. :)

stonewall
4th January 2010, 11:40 AM
Tapchou is 104.64% right though, rankers always ruin everything. just disallow clicking in the BETA, and then it'll be a free-for-all. :)

unless the recruiter needs tested i agree give everyone a set amount of " up " that trickles as clicks daily less " work for the testers more time to actually test

Vrasp
4th January 2010, 12:06 PM
Sabotage damage and damage caused by sabotaging is stored in the database for all users, I'll do some queries in a few hours and pull up the real statistics and averages.

We do care about what you think, but the truth is that during beta periods, people click, click and click, they don't sit there and mass people or sabotage as many people as they can, they try to rank like a real age and boast about their rank, this is one reason we randomly took down the Age 3 Beta one age and stated we aren't going to generate ranks for it.

Age 4 Beta, I think we're going to close the recruiter for a few days and run spy/sabotage based events a lot more (Beta 1 most likely won't have events, we will continue to develop Age 4 as people are testing). People will get errors, we will reset accounts and do roll-backs, yeah... as always, people are going to bitch but, if you want to take part in the beta do it to test and not to rank, you only have yourselves to blame when in the middle of a real age sabotage isn't all that cracked up to be, because people didn't dedicate time testing, instead people just wanted to rank.

Hm, back in a few hours, need to finally get the Age 4 design out to snoop (curves + jQuery ftw).

Are you now claiming that Age 3 2/3 isn't a real age and is a beta age or a 'beta period'?

snoop
4th January 2010, 12:21 PM
Vrasp: Nothing in age 3 2/3 is in testing beyond events.

drank01
4th January 2010, 04:52 PM
more spy means more damage... well that's logical

but how can my spies go in and sab some weapons undetected , while 10 died in the progress ??
come on, 10 dead spies in your garden doesn't go unnoticed ;)

Pauly_D
4th January 2010, 04:57 PM
more spy means more damage... well that's logical

but how can my spies go in and sab some weapons undetected , while 10 died in the progress ??
come on, 10 dead spies in your garden doesn't go unnoticed ;)

maybe they got dragonskin poisoning and died on the way home :wink:

Nara
4th January 2010, 05:58 PM
The last beta was a joke. Clans sold off to a few players who in turned just went around sabbing anything that moved in a quest to get the highest sab stats. I was the only large account that played and sabotaged and kept my DA. This was to test out the game in " normal " conditions, which no one else seemed to do.

ThomMerrilin
4th January 2010, 05:59 PM
Yeah, Age 4 Beta definitely needs all users to be given a sort of 'starter kit' of sorts:

1.) Each user signing up starts with X TFF (something around 100,000 or so, to jump-start the armory build-up)
2.) Each user is given X Gold (maybe 100,000,000 for flexibility and differing account starts)
3.) Each user starts with 5% Bonus points
4.) Recruiter Clicking becomes disabled (If possible, only allow sab and attack captcha's to register a banked click ^^)

I think this way, everyone is starting on a fair playing field, has a decent TBG (4-5M depending on race and points), and with clicking being disabled, should encourage more of the active users (slayers, sabbers) to register and test play.

andyt683
4th January 2010, 07:23 PM
No, we didn't change any of the formulas. I uploaded the files that I had changed (about 5 of them, out of several hundred total), and left the rest alone. 10% repair is the average we aim for; it will be around 5-6% if you never fail, and upwards of 30% if you're unfamiliar with the way the formulas work, or are attempting on targets much more powerful than you. As Key noted before he deleted his post, yes, you take a lot more damage for failing. If you don't like the sabotage repair costs, don't fail. Everything is a risk:reward equation, and you need to figure out how adventurous you are, and how much you're willing to pay for that risk.

Events were given testing depending on how complicated they were. I made a mistake with two of them, but that is resolved now. The more complex ones went off without a hitch (such as Stealth Mode Go!). Testing with real players inevitably leads to some confusion over the purpose of beta testing. Let me show you an example, taken from IRC tonight:



[19:57:58] <ROC019> does stats reset at next beta or do they roll over from current age?
[19:59:03] <andyt683> beta requires that we reset everything
[19:59:17] <ROC019> k cool :) now i can play this game again when that comes
[19:59:18] <andyt683> there will be an FAQ posted when we have more information on the migration process
[19:59:40] <andyt683> why would that impact your ability to play?
[19:59:59] <andyt683> keep in mind that a beta is a type of testing phase, where things can and do go wrong, requiring frequent resets
[20:00:07] <andyt683> its not something you play, you're simply testing
[20:00:30] <ROC019> no i play beta loool :) Im not noob I know what im doing on here :P
[20:00:41] <ROC019> beta i got my best rank ever in loool
[20:00:45] <ROC019> thanks for info m8
[20:00:55] <andyt683> ...apparently you didn't get my point, but okay
[20:01:01] <andyt683> whatever floats your proverbial boat
[20:01:07] <ROC019> looool


This is the average player we encounter. I get lots of these every day. Players like this don't try out the new features, and definitely don't attempt to break it. When we say there are bugs in it, and they blindly stumble into one, they either ignore it, exploit it, or throw a temper tantrum. I personally am against any sort of public beta, because for the most part, they are an absolute waste of time.

Vrasp
4th January 2010, 08:01 PM
No, we didn't change any of the formulas. I uploaded the files that I had changed (about 5 of them, out of several hundred total), and left the rest alone. 10% repair is the average we aim for; it will be around 5-6% if you never fail, and upwards of 30% if you're unfamiliar with the way the formulas work, or are attempting on targets much more powerful than you. As Key noted before he deleted his post, yes, you take a lot more damage for failing. If you don't like the sabotage repair costs, don't fail. Everything is a risk:reward equation, and you need to figure out how adventurous you are, and how much you're willing to pay for that risk.

Events were given testing depending on how complicated they were. I made a mistake with two of them, but that is resolved now. The more complex ones went off without a hitch (such as Stealth Mode Go!). Testing with real players inevitably leads to some confusion over the purpose of beta testing. Let me show you an example, taken from IRC tonight:



[19:57:58] <ROC019> does stats reset at next beta or do they roll over from current age?
[19:59:03] <andyt683> beta requires that we reset everything
[19:59:17] <ROC019> k cool :) now i can play this game again when that comes
[19:59:18] <andyt683> there will be an FAQ posted when we have more information on the migration process
[19:59:40] <andyt683> why would that impact your ability to play?
[19:59:59] <andyt683> keep in mind that a beta is a type of testing phase, where things can and do go wrong, requiring frequent resets
[20:00:07] <andyt683> its not something you play, you're simply testing
[20:00:30] <ROC019> no i play beta loool :) Im not noob I know what im doing on here :P
[20:00:41] <ROC019> beta i got my best rank ever in loool
[20:00:45] <ROC019> thanks for info m8
[20:00:55] <andyt683> ...apparently you didn't get my point, but okay
[20:01:01] <andyt683> whatever floats your proverbial boat
[20:01:07] <ROC019> looool


This is the average player we encounter. I get lots of these every day. Players like this don't try out the new features, and definitely don't attempt to break it. When we say there are bugs in it, and they blindly stumble into one, they either ignore it, exploit it, or throw a temper tantrum. I personally am against any sort of public beta, because for the most part, they are an absolute waste of time.

I am of the opinion that an initial private beta to find bugs, etc. lasting about a week, then jumping into a public beta is the way to go. I think not doing a public beta at all is a mistake, though, because you will have players who do report the bugs and having more people to test and test against will be very helpful in finding these bugs.

rabbitohs
4th January 2010, 09:28 PM
The last beta was a joke. Clans sold off to a few players who in turned just went around sabbing anything that moved in a quest to get the highest sab stats. I was the only large account that played and sabotaged and kept my DA. This was to test out the game in " normal " conditions, which no one else seemed to do.

You have to remember the age before the last beta. Age 2, sabbing sucked. So in age 3 Beta, all people wanted to do is see if sabbing was fixed.

This Beta will be similar, but not as drastic as the sabbing formula wont be changed too much. Maybe slightly tweaked? Maybe an admin can clarify this.

This Beta will be played to test out the new features/layout

andyt683
4th January 2010, 10:37 PM
I am of the opinion that an initial private beta to find bugs, etc. lasting about a week, then jumping into a public beta is the way to go. I think not doing a public beta at all is a mistake, though, because you will have players who do report the bugs and having more people to test and test against will be very helpful in finding these bugs.

I'm not against a limited private beta with people who actually do what testing entails. It serves an incredibly valuable role in making a game enjoyable for all. When we open it up to everyone, we open it up to the "me too" idiot mentality, and that's counter-productive. Beta is a time of feature-freeze, and yet, all we hear are requests for more features, instead of feedback on currently implemented features.


You have to remember the age before the last beta. Age 2, sabbing sucked. So in age 3 Beta, all people wanted to do is see if sabbing was fixed.

This Beta will be similar, but not as drastic as the sabbing formula wont be changed too much. Maybe slightly tweaked? Maybe an admin can clarify this.

This Beta will be played to test out the new features/layout

No, this beta will be played to test every facet of the game: features, basic functionality, layout and usability issues, etc. Zach and Brad have put a lot of work into this.

Keep in mind that I've had no part in any of this, as I am resigning after this round, but the general plan is to keep the math mostly the same. This is subject to change though.

M3J
4th January 2010, 11:34 PM
Sabotage Damage 8,563,560,000 Gold
Sabotage Cost 949,930,747 Gold

Hmph. I still think sabbing repairs isn't bad. You guys are seeing one sab on a person rather than total sabs on the person in a day. It's like, "OMG, I SABBED THAT GUY FOR 3MIL BUT GOT 1MIL DAMAGE BACK?!?!?! FUCK THIS SHIT!" It should be more like "I sabbed that guy for about 24mil today and got 8mil damage. Meh, not bad."
You guys just suck at thinking in larger terms and stick t small terms. <_<

Doce12Pares
5th January 2010, 01:29 AM
Sabotage Damage 39,857,217,000 Gold
Sabotage Cost 3,462,481,863 Gold

under 10% for me.

remember you don't get sab repairs damage on all your attempts.

also sabbing say a major account for 150 mil. per success will be almost the same sab repairs cost as sabbing someone for 20 mil. per success.

the bigger accounts give you more bang for your buck when sabbing.

andyt683
5th January 2010, 09:06 AM
Sort of. Your damages are capped by their damages (meaning you can never go over 100% repair:damage), but in theory, the bigger accounts should give you a better ratio.

ThOrN-
5th January 2010, 03:36 PM
Sabotage Damage 8,563,560,000 Gold
Sabotage Cost 949,930,747 Gold

Hmph. I still think sabbing repairs isn't bad. You guys are seeing one sab on a person rather than total sabs on the person in a day. It's like, "OMG, I SABBED THAT GUY FOR 3MIL BUT GOT 1MIL DAMAGE BACK?!?!?! FUCK THIS SHIT!" It should be more like "I sabbed that guy for about 24mil today and got 8mil damage. Meh, not bad."
You guys just suck at thinking in larger terms and stick t small terms. <_<

Lol but if your going for ranking shouldn't you be thinking "I just sabbed someone below me and damaged myself more than it was worth.." Opp. Cost of the repair damage is spending it on other things.

Still think this sabotage damage and cost stat should be removed... It just promotes random sabbing to see who can get the highest sab stats.. It's stupid. Clever players can do it anyway without it, but they usually arn't the type to sab for no reason. Introducing that figure has been a pain in the ass to me who plays solo. So many people I find sabbing.. i ask why? .... "because i want my sab figure up" O.o

Maybe their should be a way to determine if you fail or not on a sab. Because to me it seems a random factor Atm.


(My sab to sab cost damage is only over 10%)

Or make race's really matter... Say elves can buy higher strengthed tools or dwarfs higher strengthed defense weps so on..:)

Vrasp
5th January 2010, 06:10 PM
Lol but if your going for ranking shouldn't you be thinking "I just sabbed someone below me and damaged myself more than it was worth.." Opp. Cost of the repair damage is spending it on other things.

Still think this sabotage damage and cost stat should be removed... It just promotes random sabbing to see who can get the highest sab stats.. It's stupid. Clever players can do it anyway without it, but they usually arn't the type to sab for no reason. Introducing that figure has been a pain in the ass to me who plays solo. So many people I find sabbing.. i ask why? .... "because i want my sab figure up" O.o

Maybe their should be a way to determine if you fail or not on a sab. Because to me it seems a random factor Atm.


(My sab to sab cost damage is only over 10%)

Or make race's really matter... Say elves can buy higher strengthed tools or dwarfs higher strengthed defense weps so on..:)

1) Sabotaging every low-ranked or "weak" account in the game won't give you nearly as much sabotage damage as sabotaging a few higher ranked accounts. That's not to say people won't do it, but it is more time consuming; the only real bonus is that you won't get many repairs.
2) Sabotage does have a random factor; you'll never have a 100% chance of getting in. Stat ratios simply modify your success chance.
3) Theoretically, being a dwarf does allow you to buy 'higher-strength' defense weapons because you inherently get more stat per weapon. If, however, you mean non-dwarfs, for example, shouldn't be able to buy dragonskins at all, then the game becomes even more-so about clicking and having more men.

ThOrN-
5th January 2010, 07:07 PM
1) Sabotaging every low-ranked or "weak" account in the game won't give you nearly as much sabotage damage as sabotaging a few higher ranked accounts. That's not to say people won't do it, but it is more time consuming; the only real bonus is that you won't get many repairs.
2) Sabotage does have a random factor; you'll never have a 100% chance of getting in. Stat ratios simply modify your success chance.
3) Theoretically, being a dwarf does allow you to buy 'higher-strength' defense weapons because you inherently get more stat per weapon. If, however, you mean non-dwarfs, for example, shouldn't be able to buy dragonskins at all, then the game becomes even more-so about clicking and having more men.

Nein.. I mean scrap bonusses like percentages. Make for example a pickaxe have double the strength it has now IF you choose elves as a race. The game is already about clicking lol.. I mean in your example non-dwarfs can buy a dragonskin but it won't be the same strength as a dwarf buying one.

And the random factor doesn't make sense... i can sab a guy with 1 bill sentry and get 10 clean sabs with low gold repairs.. but with someone else exactly the same stats i come out with 6-7 mill repairs?

Also the sabbing low accounts was nothing to do with damage in that way it was if you sab people above you the lose stats yes?.. so you can gain ranks.

Anyway the thing thats really reallly dumb is how can a weapon worth 50,000 have 900,000 repair damage? O.O Why don't they do it properly and rapidely reduce tool strength to even out for the slayers.

M3J
5th January 2010, 08:00 PM
Lol but if your going for ranking shouldn't you be thinking "I just sabbed someone below me and damaged myself more than it was worth.." Opp. Cost of the repair damage is spending it on other things.

Still think this sabotage damage and cost stat should be removed... It just promotes random sabbing to see who can get the highest sab stats.. It's stupid. Clever players can do it anyway without it, but they usually arn't the type to sab for no reason. Introducing that figure has been a pain in the ass to me who plays solo. So many people I find sabbing.. i ask why? .... "because i want my sab figure up" O.o

Maybe their should be a way to determine if you fail or not on a sab. Because to me it seems a random factor Atm.


(My sab to sab cost damage is only over 10%)

Or make race's really matter... Say elves can buy higher strengthed tools or dwarfs higher strengthed defense weps so on..:)

Why are rankers sabbing? X_X If they have a problem with it, they shouldn't sab. Plus they can recover more easily from the costs than many sabbers.

Well, many of us sab for the lulz. Feck the sab damage, LULZ R 2 BE HAD WITH RANDOM SABS!
And that'd just make humans be at more advantage as they have higher income, they probably can buy higher strengthened tools and weps.

Vrasp
5th January 2010, 11:17 PM
Nein.. I mean scrap bonusses like percentages. Make for example a pickaxe have double the strength it has now IF you choose elves as a race. The game is already about clicking lol.. I mean in your example non-dwarfs can buy a dragonskin but it won't be the same strength as a dwarf buying one.

So...rather than have bonuses, just give races a bonus to buying the top tier weapon of a certain type? Is that what you're saying? I don't understand what you're saying here, so I can't properly respond.

And yes, I know the game is about clicking. Depending on the way you're suggesting doing this, the game would require even more clicking, which I'm sure most people agree is a bad thing.


And the random factor doesn't make sense... i can sab a guy with 1 bill sentry and get 10 clean sabs with low gold repairs.. but with someone else exactly the same stats i come out with 6-7 mill repairs?

Also the sabbing low accounts was nothing to do with damage in that way it was if you sab people above you the lose stats yes?.. so you can gain ranks.

Sabotage damage is based on the target's sell-off value, and the sabotage repairs are based on the sabotage damage. Yeah, you can sabotage a lot of low worth accounts and get very few repairs (as you'll get 0 repairs for most of them), but it'd take a lot longer than sabotaging a few high ranked accounts (which will give you huge repairs).

It's tricky to balance; on the one hand you don't want people to harass new players by sabotaging them repeatedly for no reason (or maybe you do, but it'll probably make them quit before they've even gotten started, and who wants the player base to stay where it is?), but other than inflicting weapon repairs, the only real way to do that is....making sabotage require turns, or creating a separate set of turns used for sabotage.


Anyway the thing thats really reallly dumb is how can a weapon worth 50,000 have 900,000 repair damage? O.O Why don't they do it properly and rapidely reduce tool strength to even out for the slayers.

I guess there's no acceptable response to that really, because you'll probably just say "that's dumb" and maybe it is - maybe it doesn't make sense, but I mean...it's just game balance. Maybe your one spy kept damaging his hooks and needed to pick up another one, until he was finally finished. Think about it - it's not too realistic for one spy to go around sabotaging 1,000 excaliburs without being seen either. It should at least take more than one measly hook to do so!

ThOrN-
6th January 2010, 01:16 AM
So...rather than have bonuses, just give races a bonus to buying the top tier weapon of a certain type? Is that what you're saying? I don't understand what you're saying here, so I can't properly respond.

And yes, I know the game is about clicking. Depending on the way you're suggesting doing this, the game would require even more clicking, which I'm sure most people agree is a bad thing.



Sabotage damage is based on the target's sell-off value, and the sabotage repairs are based on the sabotage damage. Yeah, you can sabotage a lot of low worth accounts and get very few repairs (as you'll get 0 repairs for most of them), but it'd take a lot longer than sabotaging a few high ranked accounts (which will give you huge repairs).

It's tricky to balance; on the one hand you don't want people to harass new players by sabotaging them repeatedly for no reason (or maybe you do, but it'll probably make them quit before they've even gotten started, and who wants the player base to stay where it is?), but other than inflicting weapon repairs, the only real way to do that is....making sabotage require turns, or creating a separate set of turns used for sabotage.


I guess there's no acceptable response to that really, because you'll probably just say "that's dumb" and maybe it is - maybe it doesn't make sense, but I mean...it's just game balance. Maybe your one spy kept damaging his hooks and needed to pick up another one, until he was finally finished. Think about it - it's not too realistic for one spy to go around sabotaging 1,000 excaliburs without being seen either. It should at least take more than one measly hook to do so!

The bonus thing being removed, I meant take % bonuses away. Then changing the strength of weapons. Example You choose Dwarfs and your strength of buying a dragonskin is double everyone elses (who isn't a dwarf) and If your say Elves your strength of buying a spy tool is double...if you understand that?.

Why not balance it out?.. Make tools Less expensive or up their strength to justify the actual repair. I mean seriously if he needs more "measly hooks" to sab things he'd end up carrying 20+ which isnt realistic..^^

I suppose we get no where to fix the realism lol.. The only thing would be to damage the only damage that is for the cost of the weapon. Which is why stronger tools are maybe needed ? for more chance of succesful sabbings.

Vrasp
6th January 2010, 03:08 AM
The bonus thing being removed, I meant take % bonuses away. Then changing the strength of weapons. Example You choose Dwarfs and your strength of buying a dragonskin is double everyone elses (who isn't a dwarf) and If your say Elves your strength of buying a spy tool is double...if you understand that?.

Why not balance it out?.. Make tools Less expensive or up their strength to justify the actual repair. I mean seriously if he needs more "measly hooks" to sab things he'd end up carrying 20+ which isnt realistic..^^

I suppose we get no where to fix the realism lol.. The only thing would be to damage the only damage that is for the cost of the weapon. Which is why stronger tools are maybe needed ? for more chance of succesful sabbings.

Okay, so the way you just described what you meant by the weapon thing just means you want the % bonuses raised (to 100% bonus, in your example). :-P

rabbitohs
6th January 2010, 03:51 AM
I think he means instead of having 25% covert bonus for elves, elves weapons are 25% stronger... i.e. change nothing but the code

MaradoX-
6th January 2010, 04:38 AM
I think he means instead of having 25% covert bonus for elves, elves weapons are 25% stronger... i.e. change nothing but the code

That would be for no use...

Covert bonus:
Spy Action = spy action * 1.25

Weapon strength + 25%:
Spy Action = (...don't wanna do all calculations ...)... weapons * 1.25

Whats the difference?

Vrasp
6th January 2010, 05:02 AM
Whats the difference?

Exactly.

andyt683
6th January 2010, 08:58 AM
That'd be an unnecessarily complicated fix for something that isn't broken.

Doce12Pares
6th January 2010, 09:17 AM
That'd be an unnecessarily complicated fix for something that isn't broken.

don't listen to them.

the game is fine the way it is.

only thing i would change is raise the maximum up to 120k.

lets us sabbers keep pace with the clickers. :D

Pauly_D
6th January 2010, 09:37 AM
don't listen to them.

the game is fine the way it is.

only thing i would change is raise the maximum up to 120k.

lets us sabbers keep pace with the clickers. :D

no, dont change UP, it was good when it was 30k and its ok at 60k but increasing it more is just trying to change something that isnt broken

Doce12Pares
6th January 2010, 11:38 AM
no, dont change UP, it was good when it was 30k and its ok at 60k but increasing it more is just trying to change something that isnt broken

no one said it's broken.

just saying what i prefer.

not everyone clicks 100k-200k a day.

a higher up helps out those who don't click.

at the same time those who click more still have an advantage because 1. they click more 2. they'll probably be first to get the high up.

Pauly_D
6th January 2010, 11:47 AM
no one said it's broken.

just saying what i prefer.

not everyone clicks 100k-200k a day.

a higher up helps out those who don't click.

at the same time those who click more still have an advantage because 1. they click more 2. they'll probably be first to get the high up.

Top Clickers Today
Henry Clicks Rank
hextor [TLM] 76,589 1
Apotheosis [~RF~] 65,353 2
TomRiddle [*TNT*] 60,996 3
majorglitch [VS] 45,882 4
WarrioR [VS] 42,423 5
LazyFeril [TLM] 35,872 6
WantMyGold [*TNT*] 35,421 7
ajayzolapara [VS] 31,569 8
neverdead_420 [~CX~] 30,739 9
Gidovoskos [*TNT*] 28,437 10
JackRabbit [**ES**] 28,364 11
pigsfoot [VS] 27,388 12
dragon_slayer [WK] 26,995 13
Jigglypuff [PHNX] 22,852 14
sundar [~KRZ~] 22,525 15
XplodedSynapses [= TW =] 19,138 16
BUTTERNUT [VS] 16,625 17
DarkKnight [VS] 15,600 18
MaXteR- [~RF~] 15,070 19
Vrasp [~RF~] 14,372 20
Nesrevi [*TNT*] 13,600 21
slickjay 11,482 22
Swift_Kalusha [~RF~] 9,587 23
PulpFiction [QT] 9,473 24
Stealthy [~CX~] 9,252 25

no-ones clicking 100k-200k
age after age people seem to click loads until they get the maximum UP upgrade at which point the extra soldiers doesnt add much to the soldiers a day, if the UP is 120k a day then there isnt much point in clicking, if UP is 30k then clicking 20k is a noticeable increase.

Gambino
6th January 2010, 02:13 PM
Anyone mind sharing what this is about:


-Global- [Tapchou] We need to test something on the sabotage stuff because we're bored and stuff, so sabotage snoop

Pauly_D
6th January 2010, 02:43 PM
Anyone mind sharing what this is about:
Quote:

-Global- [Tapchou] We need to test something on the sabotage stuff because we're bored and stuff, so sabotage snoop



Well the guys in SP were getting a bit bored, we havent had a war yet so Tap put a message out to sab Frosted-Butts and see if we get enough interest in it to start a war ;)

M3J
6th January 2010, 07:29 PM
Anyone mind sharing what this is about:

It's for the lulz, I guess. Vrasp said when snoop started getting sabbed, he put himself in vac mode or shit and then took him out of it in 30mins.

Camisado
7th January 2010, 02:02 AM
It's for the lulz, I guess. Vrasp said when snoop started getting sabbed, he put himself in vac mode or shit and then took him out of it in 30mins.

Must be nice to be able to put yourself into vacation mode to avoid sabs then take yourself out of it a half hour later.

Too bad the rules don't apply to the admins. And they wonder why players don't think it's fair for them to play.

Pauly_D
7th January 2010, 06:13 AM
Must be nice to be able to put yourself into vacation mode to avoid sabs then take yourself out of it a half hour later.

Too bad the rules don't apply to the admins. And they wonder why players don't think it's fair for them to play.

yes because its so totally unfair for everyone else for the admins to ask people to sab them because they need to check things are working, i also expect you didnt notice Tapchou getting to top 10 last week then resetting.
The admins play so they can test formulas and keep up to date on what happens in the game.

Camisado
7th January 2010, 11:12 AM
yes because its so totally unfair for everyone else for the admins to ask people to sab them because they need to check things are working, i also expect you didnt notice Tapchou getting to top 10 last week then resetting.
The admins play so they can test formulas and keep up to date on what happens in the game.

That IS NOT the reason Tapchou sent the global message asking people to sabotage Snoop. I advise you to get the facts before you make another post.

M3J
7th January 2010, 11:32 AM
Must be nice to be able to put yourself into vacation mode to avoid sabs then take yourself out of it a half hour later.

Too bad the rules don't apply to the admins. And they wonder why players don't think it's fair for them to play.
So far, it was mostly snoop doing this. But lulz, admins themselves take gameplaying seriously if one "deleted" his account due to sabs and another cheated to stop being sabbed.
I don't see rouen doing the same. Tap did this to rouen and snoop and was meh, but when it was him getting sabbed, it was all RAGEIQUIT.


yes because its so totally unfair for everyone else for the admins to ask people to sab them because they need to check things are working, i also expect you didnt notice Tapchou getting to top 10 last week then resetting.
The admins play so they can test formulas and keep up to date on what happens in the game.

So instead of saying "sab me", he had to say "sab him"? And if snoop wanted to be sabbed, he wouldn't have put himself in vac mode then activate his account again later, eh?
I'm not saying all admins cheat. I'm just saying, some of them cheat, and they get away with it.

rouen
7th January 2010, 11:50 AM
Ok so here comes the explanation.

The reverend snpoop did not go into vacation mode, he actually deleted due to an internal issue that was had among staff members. Upon realizing that this was all a misunderstanding the account was restored and all was well again. It was not a sab avoiding issue as the "lets get each other sabbed" situation was something that happened earlier on and was actually a joke.

As far as Tap goes he put his account into vacation mode (and no it hasnt come out) so that he can work on Age 4 without any additional distractions. He has been feeling the burn of all the in game issues that have arisen including the many accusations of admins cheating, etc. So as a result he will be working more on age 4 with snoop.

As he explained it to me it is difficult to concentrate and keep the will to do so when there is so much backlash coming from the member base. All of these complaints and situations are taken in stride by all of us but as of late it seemed to have built to a break point.

Regardless I dont mind discussing issues like this when it is done in the appropriate places, this thread kind of got hijacked from its original intent and I ask that it please go back to the way it should and if you want to continue the discussion let it be in its own thread.

M3J
7th January 2010, 11:52 AM
He deleted, he should have created a new account instead. That's an unfair advantage.

Plus, Tapchou told me he deleted his account. :\

MeDDish
7th January 2010, 08:44 PM
Ok so here comes the explanation.

The reverend snpoop did not go into vacation mode, he actually deleted due to an internal issue that was had among staff members. Upon realizing that this was all a misunderstanding the account was restored and all was well again. It was not a sab avoiding issue as the "lets get each other sabbed" situation was something that happened earlier on and was actually a joke.

As far as Tap goes he put his account into vacation mode (and no it hasnt come out) so that he can work on Age 4 without any additional distractions. He has been feeling the burn of all the in game issues that have arisen including the many accusations of admins cheating, etc. So as a result he will be working more on age 4 with snoop.

As he explained it to me it is difficult to concentrate and keep the will to do so when there is so much backlash coming from the member base. All of these complaints and situations are taken in stride by all of us but as of late it seemed to have built to a break point.

Regardless I dont mind discussing issues like this when it is done in the appropriate places, this thread kind of got hijacked from its original intent and I ask that it please go back to the way it should and if you want to continue the discussion let it be in its own thread.

still off topic, but maybe appoint a 'player' to watch over the admins, they can only look @ the interactions the admins have with the game they cant edit/change anything with the player base, only having 'control' over the admins accounts
that should put a end to the 'cheating' questions

Vrasp
7th January 2010, 08:53 PM
still off topic, but maybe appoint a 'player' to watch over the admins, they can only look @ the interactions the admins have with the game they cant edit/change anything with the player base, only having 'control' over the admins accounts
that should put a end to the 'cheating' questions

wtf? :p

Gambino
7th January 2010, 09:35 PM
The cheating accusations have been going on since roc was created and even before, in koc, when Fury was accused of cheating. It's getting old. Why are all the admins not on page 1? Having full control, what would make playing roc fun if they just added stats, clicks, etc...

If you actually have proof, feel free to share, otherwise STFU and play the game. If it makes you that angry, quit. It's that easy. You're just making yourselves look pathetic by claiming "Oh, he is an admin, he cheats anyway".
Seriously, knock it off, there is no need for it and no justification.

Good players are being lost because of it. Inferno? Admin, tired of the cheating BS. Tapchou, is probably getting real tired of it. Snoop, is probably an ass to you because you deserve it, not because he cheats.

They don't play to win. Look at their stats. They are not boosting anyone, they are not clicking 1 million a day, they are not at the top of the slayers list.

Assign one player to 'watch' them? Pathetic.

So, yea I'm a little angry that the Admins are the target of all the unfair harassment, maybe if they didn't quit because they got tired of defending themselves, there would be more admins to please more of the population.

Just my opinion. Maybe I am wrong, maybe if we bitch enough, the admins will get sick of all the negativity and shut roc down. Then you can go battle werewolves in KoC.

rabbitohs
7th January 2010, 09:35 PM
"Yeah sure, Its Easy to point out their flaws, but its a little harder to shut up"

I think to RoC community do that anyway. "OMG Admins h4x0r LOLz!!!!!111oneoneeleven!!"

I agree with Gambino, The admins play fairly and all of them (bar fury who has left) dont play for top spot.
Tap, Andy and Sammi play seriously for a day, burn their turns and go back to moderating twice or thrice every age.

Pyrorazer
8th January 2010, 03:44 AM
Id like yous to work this one out for me

3 minutes ago Sabotage xxxxxxxxxxx You infiltrated xxxxxxx's armory with 25 spies and sabotaged 259 Cloaks for a total of 3,885,000 gold in damages. Your weapon damage cost for this mission: 1,234,835 Gold. Your Spy is now 5,270,800,970 (lost 2,473,670)

3 minutes ago Sabotage xxxxxxxxxxx You tried to sabotage xxxxxxx with 25 spies and FAILED. They are now aware of your actions! Your weapon damage cost for this mission: 1,411,240 Gold. Your Spy is now 5,273,274,640 (lost 2,827,480)

3 minutes ago Sabotage xxxxxxxxxxx You infiltrated xxxxxxx's armory with 25 spies and sabotaged 259 Cloaks for a total of 3,885,000 gold in damages. Your Spy is now 5,276,102,120 (lost 4,000)

3 minutes ago Sabotage xxxxxxxxxxx You tried to sabotage xxxxxxx with 25 spies and FAILED. They are now aware of your actions! Your weapon damage cost for this mission: 1,499,442 Gold. Your Spy is now 5,276,106,120 (lost 3,003,885)

3 minutes ago Sabotage xxxxxxxxxxx You infiltrated xxxxxxx's armory with 25 spies and sabotaged 259 Cloaks for a total of 3,885,000 gold in damages. Your weapon damage cost for this mission: 1,323,037 Gold. Your Spy is now 5,279,110,005 (lost 2,651,075)

3 minutes ago Sabotage xxxxxxxxxxx You tried to sabotage xxxxxxx with 25 spies and FAILED. They are now aware of your actions! Your weapon damage cost for this mission: 1,499,442 Gold. Your Spy is now 5,281,761,080 (lost 3,003,885)

3 minutes ago Sabotage xxxxxxxxxxx You tried to sabotage xxxxxxx with 25 spies and FAILED. They are now aware of your actions! Your weapon damage cost for this mission: 1,499,442 Gold. Your Spy is now 5,284,764,965 (lost 3,003,885)

3 minutes ago Sabotage xxxxxxxxxxx You infiltrated xxxxxxx's armory with 25 spies and sabotaged 259 Cloaks for a total of 3,885,000 gold in damages. Your weapon damage cost for this mission: 1,323,037 Gold. Your Spy is now 5,287,768,850 (lost 2,651,075)

3 minutes ago Sabotage xxxxxxxxxxx You infiltrated xxxxxxx's armory with 25 spies and sabotaged 259 Cloaks for a total of 3,885,000 gold in damages. Your weapon damage cost for this mission: 1,323,037 Gold. Your Spy is now 5,290,419,925 (lost 2,651,075)

4 minutes ago Sabotage xxxxxxxxxxx You infiltrated xxxxxxx's armory with 25 spies and sabotaged 259 Cloaks for a total of 3,885,000 gold in damages. Your Spy is now 5,293,071,000 (lost 5,000)

My calc make it out to be

Damage dealt to target: 19,425,000
Damage recieved from sabbing him: 22,266,030

Give or take a few k on my side

How is that worth sabbing? with the repairs so high? it cost me more to sab him then he sustained... even if he lost more how it reasonable that he lost so little difference then i did?

Pyrorazer
8th January 2010, 04:00 AM
Ok i was wrong and i was Adding up the stat losses as gold but still 1mill gold damage shouldnt loose 3mill stat damage

and yes all my tools are held with excess spies so it wasnt the spies casulties

Juvi9le
13th January 2010, 04:45 PM
What i don't understand is that i have about 30 mil of repair cost but i notice last night while i was repairing my cost about above 60 mill. would there be something wrong with this? And I wasn't sabbed during this time, that i know of anyways lol

You repaired 0.022 points on your Daggers, 0.226 points on your Mauls, 2.263 points on your Blades, 9.052 points on your Excaliburs, 5.108 points on your Pickaxes for 69,503,190 Gold. Your Strike is now 155,218,126 (gained 116,981), Spy is now 1,696,773,000 (gained 72,214,350)

I know it's petty but i just started 2 weeks ago lol...

Sabotage Damage 318,185,000 Gold
Sabotage Cost 31,485,114 Gold

So 69 mill, guessing maybe 1-2 mill to SA so let's say 65mill at the least, still does not add up to the 31,5 mill sabotage cost... Something odd with this one?

ThomasA
13th January 2010, 04:54 PM
looks like you repaired SA also

Juvi9le
13th January 2010, 04:59 PM
looks like you repaired SA also

Your Strike is now 155,218,126 (gained 116,981), Spy is now 1,696,773,000 (gained 72,214,350)

Can't see it being much for repairing 116,981 worth of SA lol

ThomasA
13th January 2010, 06:34 PM
depends how many is being held?