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powdered_donuts
3rd January 2010, 02:33 AM
Reduced cost to upgrade covert skill

so ummm, how much do they cost? since I'm already at level 15 I don't know :/

UMIST
3rd January 2010, 05:11 AM
it was 6m to get level 15 from 14.

no idea about that others lol. Nice since i saved 194m!

Screwdriver_LaCN
3rd January 2010, 05:15 AM
level 13 - around 2,7 mil
level 14 - around 4,3 mil
level 15 - around 6,9 mil
cant remember the exact numbers because I upgraded them too fast by selling some BPMs :D

Cheops
3rd January 2010, 06:31 AM
Lol, what a joke. Sold off half my account to get the upgrade last week and now it is being handed out for free :Drooling_

nagrach
3rd January 2010, 06:53 AM
Lol, what a joke. Sold off half my account to get the upgrade last week and now it is being handed out for free :Drooling_

happened to me too

but remember itīs only a beta so changes are supposed to happen

Grondahk
3rd January 2010, 08:59 AM
Finally! This is the first time I didn't max-out before the changes.
I still got as far as 14 though. :mad:

LordCounter
3rd January 2010, 09:28 AM
good change, i was already thinking about hacking people to get lvl 15 spy and now its 2 hits

jog1
3rd January 2010, 10:15 AM
had already bought lvl 15, but hey it's a beta so I'm happy they changed it.

blazed420
3rd January 2010, 10:28 AM
Rocco, your magnificence, wisdom and intelligence eludes me.


On topic:
http://img218.imageshack.us/img218/520/wtfisthisshitw.jpg

So is it your duty now to troll Rocco on these boards every post you make? Get off it dude, just shut the fuck up.

powdered_donuts
3rd January 2010, 03:33 PM
wow ....... oh well, it's just beta, gota expect to get f'd in the a a few times in beta :)

MarriedToTheMob
3rd January 2010, 03:57 PM
had already bought lvl 15, but hey it's a beta so I'm happy they changed it.

I don't find the new costs to be an improvement over last age. Now the level 15 upgrade is about the same cost as the level 10 upgrade in previous ages. Even though the improvement is scaled back to 60%, level 15 is still a larger multiplier (unless I accidentally hit the X button too many times). The level 15 upgrade was too expensive before, but now it's way to cheap.

Lopina
3rd January 2010, 04:07 PM
I don't find the new costs to be an improvement over last age. Now the level 15 upgrade is about the same cost as the level 10 upgrade in previous ages. Even though the improvement is scaled back to 60%, level 15 is still a larger multiplier (unless I accidentally hit the X button too many times). The level 15 upgrade was too expensive before, but now it's way to cheap.

Well, that's the problem with your thinking.

Tell me, which % of KoC community achieves top SA upgrade?
Which % of KoC community achieves Hand of God upgrade?

And now tell me, why should it be any different with Covert upgrades?

Mudvayne
3rd January 2010, 06:25 PM
Wow! What I could have done with my spy rating had they done that earlier.... Oh well :P

MarriedToTheMob
3rd January 2010, 08:06 PM
Well, that's the problem with your thinking.

Tell me, which % of KoC community achieves top SA upgrade?
Which % of KoC community achieves Hand of God upgrade?

And now tell me, why should it be any different with Covert upgrades?


I definitely agree that the level 15 covert upgrade should be more than 6 mil.

However, covert upgrades should be cheaper than SA and DA upgrades because they have a much larger multiplier. This may seem counter-intuitive, but if the covert upgrades are unaffordable to general population of players there will be a much wider gap between big accounts and small accounts. Players that could afford the top covert upgrade would likely be untouchable by players one or two covert levels below them.

Keeping the covert upgrade costs lower helps level the playing field. And this is more important now that it has even been, since there are fewer players overall and thus fewer players within one's range of attack.

Lopina
3rd January 2010, 10:33 PM
Keeping the covert upgrade costs lower helps level the playing field.

In the form of numbers, yes.
But seriously, tell me, what was wrong with the old prices of covert upgrades.

All of them together cost a bit less than 400M. If we take it to be 400M, just for the sake of the argument, and assume that average age lasts 4 months, meaning that's 100M per month, or ~3.3M per day.

You really find it difficult to believe that by the time of 4 months, a semi active account couldn't generate that much gold through banking and slaying?
If he/she can't accomplish that, then they are a medical case.

You talk of getting all the upgrades. Why do you want all things to be so instant? What's wrong with acquiring them over a month or two?

Seneca
4th January 2010, 12:54 AM
You talk of getting all the upgrades. Why do you want all things to be so instant? What's wrong with acquiring them over a month or two?
Exactly, that's why I liked the change in the first place.
Lots of accounts don't get all the upgrades on siege and fortification, and that's a good thing, cause if everyone gets them anyway, why do we even have them?

A_A
4th January 2010, 01:18 AM
i guess he just did it for the beta..coz only a few weeks left and it gives a chance to lower accounts to raise their coverts.. but in the real age it should be much more (probably like it was earlier)

Adrenalinejunky
5th January 2010, 02:28 AM
yeah, 6-7 mil is way too cheap.... i was perfectly fine with what they were before, though i could see reducing it a little from there, but not this much.

MarriedToTheMob
5th January 2010, 11:51 AM
You really find it difficult to believe that by the time of 4 months, a semi active account couldn't generate that much gold through banking and slaying?



Sure, they should be able to do it in four months. But you have tier 1 that can do it in 1 week, tier 2 that can do it in 4 weeks, tier 3 that can do it in 8 weeks, etc. And if someone has a covert level that's only 1 higher than you, then you probably can't see their gold because the covert levels have such a large multiplier. These gaps severely limit the number of possible opponents a player can attack, plus we get a lot more attack turns than we did back in the day.

The bottom line is that only 6000 people play koc now. There are already a small number of people that I can attack who have enough gold to take, without factoring in the proposed covert level gaps. Personally, I don't have the time to check the same 2 pages 50 times a day waiting for one of my possible targets to have gold. I'd rather check 10 pages two or three times a day.

And that's just the attack-related problems with high covert upgrade costs. Sabbing is a whole different issue.

LordCounter
5th January 2010, 12:26 PM
In the form of numbers, yes.
But seriously, tell me, what was wrong with the old prices of covert upgrades.

All of them together cost a bit less than 400M. If we take it to be 400M, just for the sake of the argument, and assume that average age lasts 4 months, meaning that's 100M per month, or ~3.3M per day.

You really find it difficult to believe that by the time of 4 months, a semi active account couldn't generate that much gold through banking and slaying?
If he/she can't accomplish that, then they are a medical case.

You talk of getting all the upgrades. Why do you want all things to be so instant? What's wrong with acquiring them over a month or two?

you mean besides the fact you can get lvl 10 covert 2 days after the age starts? and for the slow amongst us 3-4 days a week max. an age takes 6 months you know i dont want all the upgrades after 2 days.
upgrades bring skill into the game, when do you upgrade for example? if you remember a few ages back when LoS handed over his #1 SA account to GiantDave and couldn't hit the #1 account at that time because los hadnt bought all the Siege upgrades yet, so all GD had to do was buy the sieges and get the extra SA to beat the #1.
or Shane, who has lvl 9 covert for a month, it just brings some fun into the game.

i dont mind higher covert levels on one condition, the % thing. add 25% to your covert stats with buying high lvls of spy will make it fun cause then its adds some skill again. simple skill. we like simple skill. thats koc. lol

Seneca
5th January 2010, 12:35 PM
you mean besides the fact you can get lvl 10 covert 2 days after the age starts? and for the slow amongst us 3-4 days a week max. an age takes 6 months you know i dont want all the upgrades after 2 days.
upgrades bring skill into the game, when do you upgrade for example? if you remember a few ages back when LoS handed over his #1 SA account to GiantDave and couldn't hit the #1 account at that time because los hadnt bought all the Siege upgrades yet, so all GD had to do was buy the sieges and get the extra SA to beat the #1.
or Shane, who has lvl 9 covert for a month, it just brings some fun into the game.

i dont mind higher covert levels on one condition, the % thing. add 25% to your covert stats with buying high lvls of spy will make it fun cause then its adds some skill again. simple skill. we like simple skill. thats koc. lol

Agreed, that little skill this game requires shouldn't be thrown away.

Lopina
5th January 2010, 12:42 PM
Actually, we agree here, LC

I want ALL upgrades to be much more expensive.
I do not want that over 50% of active KoC players have maxed all upgrades during one age.

But with this beta, and such idiotic managing look what we have here:

Maxed covert level gives you a multiplier of approx 1153 for approx 12M gold
Maxed siege level gives you a multiplier of approx 40 for approx 650M gold
Maxed fort level gives you a multiplier of approx 36 for approx 2600M gold

Any1 noticing anything odd here, or am I the only one???

Sh4nnon
5th January 2010, 01:05 PM
And if someone has a covert level that's only 1 higher than you, then you probably can't see their gold because the covert levels have such a large multiplier. These gaps severely limit the number of possible opponents a player can attack, plus we get a lot more attack turns than we did back in the day.if reconning is the only problem here why not make reconning a bit easier rather than reducing the price.. covert upgrades r as good as being not there since they r so easy to get .. they are not at all challenging as sa / da upgrades .

Gohon
5th January 2010, 03:09 PM
Whats the point of havin upgrades if they r so cheap? if everyone has them then there is no difference between players. Bad move,

plus it took me a while to realise they had made the change. I went down the rankings so quick i thought i got sabbed

Adrenalinejunky
6th January 2010, 01:11 AM
Sure, they should be able to do it in four months. But you have tier 1 that can do it in 1 week, tier 2 that can do it in 4 weeks, tier 3 that can do it in 8 weeks, etc. And if someone has a covert level that's only 1 higher than you, then you probably can't see their gold because the covert levels have such a large multiplier. These gaps severely limit the number of possible opponents a player can attack, plus we get a lot more attack turns thavn we did back in the day.

The bottom line is that only 6000 people play koc now. There are already a small number of people that I can attack who have enough gold to take, without factoring in the proposed covert level gaps. Personally, I don't have the time to check the same 2 pages 50 times a day waiting for one of my possible targets to have gold. I'd rather check 10 pages two or three times a day.

And that's just the attack-related problems with high covert upgrade costs. Sabbing is a whole different issue.

I'm sorry, but that doesn't make sense. If you have the kind of spy to where you would be able to see someones gold if they hadn't bought an upgrade? Then most likely you can afford that upgrade. As far as reconning for gold, you can already recon sentries that are many times your spy, so I don't see this as unbalancing in the least. As far as the sabbing aspect goes, yes it will help protect bigger accounts from rogue sabbers. This is not a bad thing in my opinion though. Big accounts can still be easily damaged by massing them, which was already the best way to damage very large accounts anyway. More expensive upgrades also bring strategy into the game in other ways, since they lowered the covert level cost it seems every random rogue can sab me. I understand this is due to it being a beta and me having bought the upgrades at the orriginal price. However, As a result I've sold for upgrades I don't need yet to limit my aat. This late in the age that may come back to hurt me, or it could pay off. Now why would you want to remove strategy such as this from the game just to try to make things even when they never will be, and shouldn't be. Some people put more time and effort into the game, and as a result they get ahead of many others. Removing this would destroy the sense of competition and make the game completely worthless.