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Tapchou
23rd December 2009, 02:06 AM
Right, we (moderators/administrators) play this game to understand how it currently is and... stuff (it's 08:07 am, hence the lack of care for the writing of this thread).

How come DA is so under-powered..? I mean, are people scared to have DA, scared to lose it in war?

Because if you hold #11 DA, you will still get hit for the same amount you would if you had #100 DA, and I'm pretty damn confused.

OK - Share your thoughts, no idea why I wrote this, maybe I'm a little pissed, or something, have fun - and goodnight!

crazy_sabber
23rd December 2009, 02:16 AM
Right, we (moderators/administrators) play this game to understand how it currently is and... stuff (it's 08:07 am, hence the lack of care for the writing of this thread).

How come DA is so under-powered..? I mean, are people scared to have DA, scared to lose it in war?

Because if you hold #11 DA, you will still get hit for the same amount you would if you had #100 DA, and I'm pretty damn confused.

OK - Share your thoughts, no idea why I wrote this, maybe I'm a little pissed, or something, have fun - and goodnight!

Yes tapchou u r pretty right... having loads of DA means u have something that can be easily sabbed and instantly broken...
Secondly, if u r not playing for ranks meaning if u r playing the sab game then ur interest will be more in covert stats rather than SA/DA...
Thirdly, upgrades for DA are costly as compared to SA, slightly (yes slightly) favoring slayers...
And finally as per me, since admins have allowed phone banking that means most of players dont need to hold loads of gold hence they do not need so much DA... {personally i think if phone banking is disallowed, or checking on multiple IP per account is made even more strict game will become little difficult and thereby FUN... but thats me personal opinion, many may disagree}
:badger:

nelo_angelo
23rd December 2009, 02:21 AM
It seems that, the higher the DA goes the lower you get hit for. Why? That doesn't even make sense. All these "slayers" out their hitting people for low gold, just to raise their SA and hit for even lower gold.



Everyone stop buying SA and buy DA! GO GO GO! Or at least hit for a decent amount.

Vrasp
23rd December 2009, 02:34 AM
Right, we (moderators/administrators) play this game to understand how it currently is and... stuff (it's 08:07 am, hence the lack of care for the writing of this thread).

How come DA is so under-powered..? I mean, are people scared to have DA, scared to lose it in war?

Because if you hold #11 DA, you will still get hit for the same amount you would if you had #100 DA, and I'm pretty damn confused.

OK - Share your thoughts, no idea why I wrote this, maybe I'm a little pissed, or something, have fun - and goodnight!

1. It's easier to build strike than to build defense because strike has cheaper upgrades.
2. Defense gets sabbed away pretty quickly in a war.
3. Defense is mostly only useful if you bank often, and a lot of people don't.

zakske
23rd December 2009, 03:20 AM
*3. Defense is mostly only useful if you don't bank often, and most people do?

Casper
23rd December 2009, 03:22 AM
With SA overpowering DA it just encourages players to play more active.

Fine and all if you are an active player, everyone has to sleep some time or the other and then there is this thing of Christmas Holidays looming :nervous:

Would be interesting to see if the slayers settle down on the much bigger hits rather or are there too many turns to burn ?

Tapchou
23rd December 2009, 03:27 AM
Well, from the last hit someone got on me, I couldn't sleep more than 2 hours and 30 minutes, with #12 DA.

My point is that, I might aswell sell DA, it doesn't nothing for me, I can't even enjoy a decent nights sleep - I don't mind waking up 4-5 hours into my sleep and then have a further 2 and wake up for the day, but I'm not going to be waking up every 2 hours.

And with Christmas, you'll get the slayers who don't like their family and sit online on IRC all day, while people like me and others will maybe not visit the computer, so - that'd be 2.7 billion gold down the drain, because I want to be with family this Christmas!

Casper
23rd December 2009, 03:35 AM
I wander what the gaps are between the top DA's and SA's is ?
Does anyone have a link of the top 10 stats like they used to and no I am not talking about ReconFeast, the other two ?

Well at this stage it seems better to be a clicking Orc as opposed to a clicking Human or Dwarf. Dang!! Wander if it's too late to Reset :imslow:

zakske
23rd December 2009, 03:48 AM
I think, Tapchou, that it's normal for someone to lose gold :P, and I also assume that if raising defense is stimulated (by discouraging phone banking, lowering upgrade costs, higher SA upgrade costs,...) people will sleep more than they do now :-). I may not make a lot of sense now xD.

Anyway, what I mean is that people shouldn't be encouraged to wake up during their well needed resting hours or to bank during family activities, working hours,...

Tapchou
23rd December 2009, 04:09 AM
I wander what the gaps are between the top DA's and SA's is ?
Does anyone have a link of the top 10 stats like they used to and no I am not talking about ReconFeast, the other two ?

Well at this stage it seems better to be a clicking Orc as opposed to a clicking Human or Dwarf. Dang!! Wander if it's too late to Reset :imslow:

Top 15 Defense

40,000,000,000 - 20,000,000,000 = 1.
20,000,000,000 - 15,000,000,000 = 3.
15,000,000,000 - 10,000,000,000 = 1.
10,000,000,000 - 5,000,000,000 = 5.
5,000,000,000 - 3,000,000,000 = 5.

Top 15 Strike

30,000,000,000 - 25,000,000,000 = 2.
25,000,000,000 - 20,000,000,000 = 1.
20,000,000,000 - 15,000,000,000 = 2.
15,000,000,000 - 10,000,000,000 = 3.
10,000,000,000 - 5,000,000,000 = 7.

P.S. I don't phone bank and I try to get as much sleep as possible. I try for 4-5 hours sleep, wake up for water etc and then get another 1-2 hours sleep.

Note: These statistics come from the database for informational purpose only.

Thirteen
23rd December 2009, 04:15 AM
DA is essential only for Big accounts to protect themselves from mass probes
and in age start to bank more tbg

SA on the other hand is essential for faster growing of low TFF accounts.
High TFF benefits too but with much less targets.
SA is weak in wars because it is like DA where sabbers target on first.

These are the basic reasons for why Elves race is most picked.
:)

drank01
23rd December 2009, 04:24 AM
i think a high DA is only usefull for a dwarf who clicks like hell... or his offies do
the orc SA advantage you just can't beat without being a dwarf or having a huge tff
and ofcourse in a war you are *****ed if you have DA . it's easy to break unlike SA weapons who only break if you attack , so if you calculate right you'll only lose 20 % from your sa against 100 % from the DA (same as with spy against sentry)
the statistics say enough 11 % dwarves and only a handfull of these have high tff ;)

Tapchou
23rd December 2009, 04:26 AM
DA is essential only for Big accounts to protect themselves from mass probes
and in age start to bank more tbg

SA on the other hand is essential for faster growing of low TFF accounts.
High TFF benefits too but with much less targets.
SA is weak in wars because it is like DA where sabbers target on first.

These are the basic reasons for why Elves race is most picked.
:)

Defense is used to protect your TBG that you rake in each 30 minutes from your alliances help and your mass clicking. It's also so you don't have to be an idiot and login every 1 hour to bank your gold because of the fear you will get farmed and 'raped' by getting hit low due to slayers 'competing' for gold hits [r1].

You're also forgetting that DA can be broken with a probe whereas SA can't.

[r1] I will show you something the person who hit me for 5 turns sent me in a PM response earlier:


Hi Tap,

I need hits to keep my SA,missed that gold rush thing two times.n abt my AA its less than 3 turns. :).Have 237 turns to burn.If u want cc i'll give it for a low hit :)

Regards
[removed name]

P.S.


i think a high DA is only usefull for a dwarf who clicks like hell... or his offies do

So... me, then :p?

the_last_dawn
23rd December 2009, 04:39 AM
What ? your complaining cause you get hit so much?

get over it. dont like loosing gold then bank more.

Tapchou
23rd December 2009, 04:44 AM
What ? your complaining cause you get hit so much?

get over it. dont like loosing gold then bank more.

You have obviously failed to read the thread and what's about, so - get out of this thread if you have nothing constructive to say.

Also, like I've stated over and over, I actually enjoy my sleep.

Vrasp
23rd December 2009, 04:45 AM
Reasons to build Strike:

* You can get more at a cheaper cost

* You can make more gold by hitting others

* You gotta use the turns some time, might as well get good gold from those who can hold more

* Losing gold doesn't matter as much when you're hitting for twice as much as you lost

* You have the chance to recycle it if you get sabotaged

* You can 5x1 those juicy targets

Reasons to build Defense:

* You might be able to sleep longer

* You won't lose as many soldiers when getting attacked

* Fewer people can hit you

nngh.

Deserted
23rd December 2009, 05:09 AM
Reasons to build Strike:

* You can get more at a cheaper cost

* You can make more gold by hitting others

* You gotta use the turns some time, might as well get good gold from those who can hold more

* Losing gold doesn't matter as much when you're hitting for twice as much as you lost

* You have the chance to recycle it if you get sabotaged

* You can 5x1 those juicy targets

Reasons to build Defense:

* You might be able to sleep longer

* You won't lose as many soldiers when getting attacked

* Fewer people can hit you

nngh.

So lots of reasons to build strike, the reasons for building defense are a bit "woolly" though.

You might be able to sleep longer - As long as at least one person can hit you then no guarantees over being able to sleep
You won't lose as many soldiers - Well, high defense needs more men to hold the weapons so not sure where this one came from
Fewer people can hit you - Does it matter if 10 or 1000 people can hit you? As long as it is at least 1 then your gold isnt safe!

So basically unless:

1) You can build DA above #1 SA or
2) You want to rank

Then DA has absolutely no purpose at all.

Vrasp
23rd December 2009, 05:12 AM
So lots of reasons to build strike, the reasons for building defense are a bit "woolly" though.

You might be able to sleep longer - As long as at least one person can hit you then no guarantees over being able to sleep
You won't lose as many soldiers - Well, high defense needs more men to hold the weapons so not sure where this one came from
Fewer people can hit you - Does it matter if 10 or 1000 people can hit you? As long as it is at least 1 then your gold isnt safe!

So basically unless:

1) You can build DA above #1 SA or
2) You want to rank

Then DA has absolutely no purpose at all.

Yeah. that was pretty much why I put "might."

The reason I say you lose less men per attack is because soldier deaths and covert deaths are based on the ratio of the attacker's strength to your defense.

the_last_dawn
23rd December 2009, 05:53 AM
You have obviously failed to read the thread and what's about, so - get out of this thread if you have nothing constructive to say.

Also, like I've stated over and over, I actually enjoy my sleep.

lol i read enough to understand you want to have the cake and eat it too. You complain that you get hit for shit gold and you say you enjoy your sleep. make up your mind.

Valheru_Prince
23rd December 2009, 06:02 AM
Why can DA's be beaten? Slayers get TBG and they also get income from pillages. Most Da-whores are used to click and bank and then back to clicking. This age however it's harder to outclick the top SA's since they get 60k soldiers per day too (UP) so the problem might not be the upgrade differences but the extra UP.

drank01
23rd December 2009, 06:17 AM
valheru is right , especially about the UP upgrade.
sorry admins but i think the 60k update is really much to cheap, i diden't do a single click this age and with a little bit of attacking i already have the 60K update.
for a account to to be able to autrun the slayers he has to be online 24/7 and bank after the turn straight away
and because not everybody does that the slayers get more income then the defender can bank anyway.
a slayer just has to log in a few times a day and ask one of his spy friends for a good hit
so basically high SA is for lazy people :P

Tapchou
23rd December 2009, 06:39 AM
lol i read enough to understand you want to have the cake and eat it too. You complain that you get hit for shit gold and you say you enjoy your sleep. make up your mind.

No, the point isn't about me getting hit, I was hit - yes. But that's what sparked me to look into why I was getting hit the same as some ranked 100-200 person.

The point is that if you have #10 DA or #100 DA, you'll be hit for the same - the point is why Strike is 'raping' Defense etc, so - please stay out of my thread.

rabbitohs
23rd December 2009, 07:00 AM
I find Sentry is a better defence than DA. Only proper slayers recon if they cant see your gold. For a normal person scanning the battlefield (e.g. me) they dont even bother. Sentry cant be as easily sabbed away compared to DA. It actually helps you in wars, not hinder you in them.

Also a low TFF is an AWSOME defence. You can hold so much more because less people can attack you.

Casper
23rd December 2009, 07:11 AM
I find Sentry is a better defence than DA. Only proper slayers recon if they cant see your gold. For a normal person scanning the battlefield (e.g. me) they dont even bother.

Also a low TFF is an AWSOME defence. You can hold so much more because less people can attack you.

Yes Sentry is a good form defence and keeps you covered against the general slayer scanning the battlefield. Problem is there are much better slayers out there and they need only count the amount of turns you are offline and know at all times how much you are holding.

We will see how it pans out in relation with DA vs SA but from it looks like this age is definately a slayers age which will only force turns to be used easier and more frequently. At the end of the day the slayer that chooses to make the bigger more patient hits will come out on top. The slayers that are making the lowish hits now will run out of turns eventually and get outgrown by the clickers and DA whores. :pirate:

Maybe it's time for DA whores to get a little SA and slay for their DA :violin:

UP is not the issue here:
* The cost of SA upgrades to DA upgrades is less.
* A Good Player will race through SA Upgrades rather to get their Bonus Points Quicker

rabbitohs
23rd December 2009, 07:13 AM
valheru is right , especially about the UP upgrade.
sorry admins but i think the 60k update is really much to cheap, i diden't do a single click this age and with a little bit of attacking i already have the 60K update.UP cant be much more expensive because then the front runners get even more ahead of the other players because they get to the top UP 1st.

Could the increased UP making it easier for slayers as there is more gold on the battlefield?

pilferer
23rd December 2009, 07:27 AM
this age, i have all but given up on buying da, even with top10 da... i have 5 slayers that can hit me.. i've also given up on good sleep.. the same reason applies...

on the other hand, i have a slight chance of protecting my gold with sentry... like namy last age, i could hit him most of the age, but no one in my alliance can recon him..

defence is almost a pointless stat... unless like earlier stated is way in front of top SA... and like stated a few times... da is so easily lost in war.. where sa, like i did last age can just be sold and re bought, even if you miscalculate, the lose is minimal!!! maybe if there was a way to break sa... like with probe.. then it could see some more use of da.. but i guess that would encourage whoring or sentry and spy even more...

the_last_dawn
23rd December 2009, 07:47 AM
geze its not that hard to bank with decent DA.

i dont think that many low hits are made. i follow almost everyones AA unless i think they are being reasonable and still they come online and tell me why did you hit me for this much. It was 4 or 5 turns from memory .

Bank every 2.5 hrs? piece of cake.

ThOrN-
23rd December 2009, 07:50 AM
DA is risky to have.. yes you can bank more but it can get sabbed away so so so easily. But you can wake up and it can be gone even if you don't do anything to deserve it.

IMO you need to pair DA with very! high sentry to keep it. Or what i do buy DA on the closing part of the age to rank.

Nara
23rd December 2009, 07:58 AM
The amount of gold you can keep depends on , if they have a good spy in their clan who is about a lot to spy fror the slayers. The gold rushes and huge sell offs makes it more difficult for those that hold DA to outgrow the slayers.

There also seems to be a " thing" with the amounts of gold you can hold. Magic numbers, like 100 , 200, 300 , 400, 500 mil in 2/3/4/ tbgs , ( don't know how to explain this in an easy understandable manner. )

Nara

the_last_dawn
23rd December 2009, 08:10 AM
There also seems to be a " thing" with the amounts of gold you can hold. Magic numbers, like 100 , 200, 300 , 400, 500 mil in 2/3/4/ tbgs , ( don't know how to explain this in an easy understandable manner. )

Nara

its like rounding numbers. no one wants to say 2.5466464464664. same way no one wants to say ..543,456,242.985 gold or 2.4545 turns ..

iKon_
23rd December 2009, 09:59 AM
UP is not the issue here:
* The cost of SA upgrades to DA upgrades is less.
* A Good Player will race through SA Upgrades rather to get their Bonus Points Quicker

UP IS a large part of the issue here. In the past, the way DA whores have survived is by clicking; say the DA whore clicks 50k a day, while the SA player only clicks 5k a day, which is quite common. In this case, the DA whore is growing 10 times more than the SA player, giving him ample ability for his DA to outgrow the slayer, unless it is a pro slayer. Now in this age, say the DA whore clicks 50k (+61.4k UP) and the slayer clicks 5k (+61.4k UP). Instead of having 10 times the growth of the slayer, the DA whore now only grows 1.7 times as much as him per day, which the slayer can easily keep up with by using both his TBG and attacks.

Now after all of the above is apparent, the smart DA whore will say, "hey, I cant keep up with the slayers at this rate." He will then do what many have done, and turn to banking nearly perfectly during the day (which many can due to phone banking), settle for being farmed at night, and then use his attacks to make up the amount he was farmed and much more. Thats what I did at least :P

Solution: Don't make UP more expensive, because that just helps the big guys who get there quickly. Lower it... 60k is too high, and basically makes clicking irrelevant, unless you're super human and can click 100k per day. UP is too high.

snoop
23rd December 2009, 10:08 AM
Solution: Don't make UP more expensive, because that just helps the big guys who get there quickly. Lower it... 60k is too high, and basically makes clicking irrelevant, unless you're super human and can click 100k per day. UP is too high.

You're probably right. Although it's something to be discussed in detail to decide for the future age.

Crazik
23rd December 2009, 10:21 AM
Ikon is right, put UP back to 30k or less and you shall see a better balance between Sa and Da once again.

Clicking is the only weapon a DA whore has on a slayer, if you make clicking useless, then he's fucked.

snoop
23rd December 2009, 10:23 AM
I blame tapchou I think it was his idea to up UP

andyt683
23rd December 2009, 10:23 AM
Looking really quickly at the database, a large part of the issue is that more people are slaying, and not as many people are clicking.

In theory, unit production doesn't change things, because the large TFF accounts will get the higher UP and maintain clicking rates, just leading to an overall larger account. Instead what is happening is the UP is cannibalizing clicking due to an unforeseen issue. Clicking a million clicks is still a million soldiers you wouldn't have, but people are getting to 4 million TFF without clicking, so it seems like a moderate advantage for a large work investment. The mind is making this cost analysis and deciding that clicking really isn't worth it, hence the lower click rates. That's not to say clicking is "worthless", clicking holds the same value as before: a straight 1:1 conversion.

However, a large part of this is NOT a bad thing. The nighttime banking every hour and a half is terribly unhealthy and should not be promoted as part of the game. We also don't want to encourage one form of play as superior to another. A slayer had no chance of ranking at the end of a round unless they clicked their way into higher TFFs. As of right now, slayers are ranking rather well, and keeping up with (slightly behind, still, but closer than historically) bankers as far as SOVs go.

Gold hit limits are largely determined by the people making the gold hits, despite what the bankers think. More competition demands lower hits just to keep up with everyone else. We need to make sure this downward pressure is kept in check via sabotage from the bankers (and related chains) to make deflation less of an issue.

Valheru_Prince
23rd December 2009, 10:24 AM
...., unless you're super human and can click 100k per day.

I saw someone do 200k yesterday... it wasn't fury ;)

But 30k UP might be good...though i think it might be too soon to draw conclusions.

Another thing that came to mind is the events. people with larger armies can occasionally go on slaying spree now as well. And the server crashes also still have an impact. It takes some time without crashes and stuff before you can really tell if Bankers can outgrow Slayers.

CyberPunk
23rd December 2009, 10:54 AM
Well i decided to whore SA and click just enough to have a decent tbg at the start. A lot of players are ranking this age and those players will usually sell off nearly their whole account to get the higher UP's as soon as possible. That's when i started slaying and instead of selling off for UP upgrades i simply slayed for it. Now it's getting to that point where those accounts have had time to whore DA and sentry again and many of my farms have already outgrown my SA. because there were so many accounts with huge tbg and crappy DA, i didn't need much DA and i could still hold 5-6 hours worth of my own tbg. so that's why it was pointless to even invest in DA since i only got hit once while i slept. In about 2-3 weeks is when the wars usually start to break out...and as stated the DA is always the first to go. if people didn't sell off prematurely for UP then DA would have a much greater value until the wars start to break out.

stonewall
23rd December 2009, 11:32 AM
Well i decided to whore SA and click just enough to have a decent tbg at the start. A lot of players are ranking this age and those players will usually sell off nearly their whole account to get the higher UP's as soon as possible. That's when i started slaying and instead of selling off for UP upgrades i simply slayed for it. Now it's getting to that point where those accounts have had time to whore DA and sentry again and many of my farms have already outgrown my SA. because there were so many accounts with huge tbg and crappy DA, i didn't need much DA and i could still hold 5-6 hours worth of my own tbg. so that's why it was pointless to even invest in DA since i only got hit once while i slept. In about 2-3 weeks is when the wars usually start to break out...and as stated the DA is always the first to go. if people didn't sell off prematurely for UP then DA would have a much greater value until the wars start to break out.


What he said.

Also if you look at your player base who they are where they came from i think you'll find the current mix of players has always tended to higher sa than da because da is supplemented by spy and sentry if you use the spy.

Nara
23rd December 2009, 11:50 AM
As a Main account in the past I know only too well that you cannot out run certain well known slayers and sabotage accounts, as they receive large sells to keep you in their range.

Once a war breaks out in the game all large accounts are then farms for the whole game community. This has a knock on effect as from then onwards no one can hold good amounts of gold. So what is a goodish amount to hit for now, will be the same at the end of the age, despite the DA and TBG of accounts.


Also around this time you will see people with a LOT of saved turns, who have been pretty inactive throughout the game and slaying then selling off to their Masters.


Nara

Tapchou
23rd December 2009, 12:14 PM
Considering this is 'Andy's Age' - he wanted fun, chaos and... whatever floats his boat, so he increased the unit production - I think UP is fine at 61k, remember the 120k UP..? Not a lot of people can click like the top clickers can, which means top clickers will grow big while a lot of small accounts, this isn't fun - those big accounts bank each day and that's about it - now the UP is 61k maximum, smaller players can have some fun too.

The issue here is that due to DA being the weapon that people target first, people are afraid of buying DA, so they turned to slayers - simple.

P.S. Keep the discussion going guys, interesting read + helps us plan future ages and stuff, I guess - whatever, I've just come home from Christmas shopping, something I think only females should do, personally.

CyberPunk
23rd December 2009, 12:26 PM
P.S. Keep the discussion going guys, interesting read + helps us plan future ages and stuff, I guess - whatever, I've just come home from Christmas shopping, something I think only females should do, personally.

as long as you don't have to pay the credit card bill...

and as far was what nara was saying, that pretty much adds to the effect that sentry is a better defense than defense.

"main" accounts should know by now that TFF isn't an automatic bid to a top rank, yet virtually none of those main accounts actively slay or do much of anything more than click and/or bank. if we saw more large TFF accounts training down earlier and actually using their turns they'd probably be able to do a lot better. kinda hard to say though since it's never happened, not since i've been playing ROC anyway.

Valheru_Prince
23rd December 2009, 12:48 PM
GreensKeeper
Rank: #81
Highest: #44, 3 weeks ago
Fort: Battery (4x)
Size: 3,112,421 Orcs

Cyberpunk, it might not be a main account but it'd say it's wrong to state huge accounts don't slay.....

CyberPunk
23rd December 2009, 12:59 PM
Val, that's one player out of many with a top tff...don't use the word "accounts" and present me with one "account"...

Nara
23rd December 2009, 01:02 PM
QUOTE:

"main" accounts should know by now that TFF isn't an automatic bid to a top rank, yet virtually none of those main accounts actively slay or do much of anything more than click and/or bank. if we saw more large TFF accounts training down earlier and actually using their turns they'd probably be able to do a lot better. kinda hard to say though since it's never happened, not since I've been playing ROC anyway.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~

Actually Main accounts often do more then click and bank, we have responsibilities to our members, helping them in the game and as we are a community, chat about real life often as well. The game is not always played for rank one.


I think that depends on what type of clan you are. Phnx is a pretty sociable one, as well as a war clan.

Nara

CyberPunk
23rd December 2009, 01:38 PM
QUOTE:
Actually Main accounts often do more then click and bank, we have responsibilities to our members, helping them in the game and as we are a community, chat about real life often as well. The game is not always played for rank one.


I think that depends on what type of clan you are. Phnx is a pretty sociable one, as well as a war clan.

Nara

i understand that there is more to the game than just the game, but i'm just saying that it "seems" like a lot of people don't actively play their account, because their goal is to bank and sell off at the end.

Pauly_D
23rd December 2009, 02:01 PM
geze its not that hard to bank with decent DA.

i dont think that many low hits are made. i follow almost everyones AA unless i think they are being reasonable and still they come online and tell me why did you hit me for this much. It was 4 or 5 turns from memory .

Bank every 2.5 hrs? piece of cake.

how can you bank every 2.5 hrs if no-one waits 2.5 hours to hit you?
so far this age i have only held 2.5hrs worth of gold 3 times, twice when the server went down and the other time was in the first 24hrs of the age, most people hit for 2 turns now (very occasionally 3)

Valheru_Prince
23rd December 2009, 02:32 PM
Val, that's one player out of many with a top tff...don't use the word "accounts" and present me with one "account"...

I was referring more to your statement but whatever.

haseo
Rank: #55
Highest: #43, 4 days ago
Fort: City Gates (4.4x)
Size: 3,374,136 Humans

Latest Enemy Stats
Strike: 17,718,326,340 1 hour ago
Defense: XXX
Spy: XXX
Sentry: XXX

That seems a decent slayer as well... oh and look, he even has some nice TFF ;)

CyberPunk
23rd December 2009, 03:08 PM
haseo
Rank: #55
Highest: #43, 4 days ago
Fort: City Gates (4.4x)
Size: 3,374,136 Humans

Latest Enemy Stats
Strike: 17,718,326,340 1 hour ago
Defense: XXX
Spy: XXX
Sentry: XXX

That seems a decent slayer as well... oh and look, he even has some nice TFF

Attack Turns 1,051

sorry val...but you aren't helping your case any

zakske
23rd December 2009, 03:37 PM
What's your point CyberPunk? You said some people don't play their account actively... Haseo was in top slayers list yesterday I think... You don't have to spend all your turns to be active, do you?

MythDrannor
23rd December 2009, 03:55 PM
Sentry is by far the real DA. Beginning of this age I whored Sentry quite a bit and I could wake up with 1.2bil on hand and sleep for 5 hours straight without worrying about banking.

If perhaps the DA upgrades were indeed cheaper, or perhaps fewer upgrades, DA might have a chance. I have rank 3 DA and only one person can hit me right now, but if you drop down to rank 10 DA, at least 8 people can farm ya. DA seems to exist well only in the extremes. Either have it, or you don't.

Sux0r
23rd December 2009, 04:23 PM
geze its not that hard to bank with decent DA.

i dont think that many low hits are made. i follow almost everyones AA unless i think they are being reasonable and still they come online and tell me why did you hit me for this much. It was 4 or 5 turns from memory .

Bank every 2.5 hrs? piece of cake.

At the start of an age, Orc's still get more SA a turn as dwarfs a turn, with the same income, which is pretty fuck'd up.

4 turns is pretty low, you try waking up, or spending every 2 hours.



Considering this is 'Andy's Age' - he wanted fun, chaos and... whatever floats his boat, so he increased the unit production - I think UP is fine at 61k, remember the 120k UP..? Not a lot of people can click like the top clickers can, which means top clickers will grow big while a lot of small accounts, this isn't fun - those big accounts bank each day and that's about it - now the UP is 61k maximum, smaller players can have some fun too.



Indeed, It might be more fun for the smaller players, but keep in mind that you make it easier for people, who banked, wasted alot of time, clicked alot, are so easily getting caught up by some people that come online 3x a day.

Also, DA gets sabbed away so easily further in the age.. that advantage is already big enough :-)

Valheru_Prince
23rd December 2009, 05:02 PM
At the start of an age, Orc's still get more SA a turn as dwarfs a turn, with the same income, which is pretty fuck'd up.

4 turns is pretty low, you try waking up, or spending every 2 hours.




Indeed, It might be more fun for the smaller players, but keep in mind that you make it easier for people, who banked, wasted alot of time, clicked alot, are so easily getting caught up by some people that come online 3x a day.

Also, DA gets sabbed away so easily further in the age.. that advantage is already big enough :-)

Ehm Dwarves get a 50% DA bonus, Orcs get 40% SA bonus, why would orcs get more a turn with the same TBG then? :S

I don't need to wake up to spend my own TBG but i get up a lot to spy and see if there is gold at the BF finally. Don't say slayers only log in 3 times a day. I might be online more than most "bankers"

But the weird thing is that I am actually lowering my hits to be able to get a chance at higher gold. And I have top 10 SA but the 400 mil+ targets are hard to find, even though it's only a few TBG for most.

Actually I think the people waking up a lot to bank make it harder for those who want to sleep. Less targets means that the ones that do sleep will be stalked by all top SA's while in the past there were more targets and each slayer could switch to another when he felt he was farming...

DA-whores giving DA-whores a hard time :P (the top 10 slayers can only do 40 attacks per day, and most don't use em...)

JunkMail
23rd December 2009, 05:18 PM
Tap, nice DA. but so what you get hit for gold. who cares man? I dont. I will never read and AA before I hit and when I start to use turns I have no good idea what a good hit is, how could I? "hey Joe what is a good hit for 1.5bill SA?" it will be a different answer depending on who you ask. So I just find out on my own, and again that will still be different than the one I hit for gold lol.

CyberPunk
23rd December 2009, 05:26 PM
4 turns is pretty low, you try waking up, or spending every 2 hours.

:badger: you're gonna wake up every two hours for a game that resets every few months and no matter how well you do, you're not gonna receive any type of real gratification for any time you've put into this game...Yep, you win at life! hurry up with those prizes admins, some people have real goals in life like getting a prize for their dedication and hard work to this life changing phenomenon we call ruins of chaos...

rabbitohs
24th December 2009, 12:15 AM
Hes agreeing with you...

Waking up every 2 hrs to bank is useless. Thats why i stopped playing at the end of last age. I was getting hit every 1.5-2hrs (3-4 turns)

zakske
24th December 2009, 05:33 AM
No, Sux0r is saying it like it's normal that you don't lose gold overnight, CyberPunk just says being attacked is normal, it is a part of the game.

I agree with CyberPunk here, if you wake up to bank you don't only mess with the game economy, but you also damage your own health. Keep this as a game for when you're actually awake, and don't make this game take over your life :P.

Oh well, it's too late for most anyway xD. But if you don't care for your health, then just let people attack you overnight not to damage the game.

rabbitohs
24th December 2009, 06:17 AM
No, Sux0r is saying it like it's normal that you don't lose gold overnight, CyberPunk just says being attacked is normal, it is a part of the game.
Hes still agreeing that being hit for 4 turns sucks ass

pilferer
24th December 2009, 05:07 PM
maybe a way to encourage purchase of da.. with every da upgrade you get protection of your da...

so for example

if i buy the 4.2 da upgrade i get 42% protection of da tools from sabs... means if i have 100b da.. 42b would always be safe...

i dunno

M3J
24th December 2009, 08:03 PM
People are retarded like that. They think they'll lose more keeping DA, especially during a war, since it can be sabbed and lost easily. No DA = no sabs and insta-loss, but it does mean more farms. <_<
You better not try to make it more favorable for DA whores. They have it as good as it is. <_<

Sux0r
25th December 2009, 05:22 AM
:badger: you're gonna wake up every two hours for a game that resets every few months and no matter how well you do, you're not gonna receive any type of real gratification for any time you've put into this game...Yep, you win at life! hurry up with those prizes admins, some people have real goals in life like getting a prize for their dedication and hard work to this life changing phenomenon we call ruins of chaos...

Are you just plain stupid?

CyberPunk
25th December 2009, 10:39 AM
yes, why else do you think i'd wake up every 2 hours to bank my gold?

6_9
25th December 2009, 11:35 AM
The issue here is that due to DA being the weapon that people target first, people are afraid of buying DA, so they turned to slayers - simple.
Spot on. Make DA weapons repairable instead to bring more variety to the game.

MeDDish
25th December 2009, 11:53 AM
maybe a way to encourage purchase of da.. with every da upgrade you get protection of your da...

so for example

if i buy the 4.2 da upgrade i get 42% protection of da tools from sabs... means if i have 100b da.. 42b would always be safe...

i dunno

well the problem with that would be if u have 100B then it gets sabbed down to 42B then its always safe...
good idea... but...

every turn if you spend 90% of your TBG on DA you get 1-1.5% 'protection' from sabs (if banking 2TBG+ you only get 1 'protection')
so if u bank 40 turns strait u could get 60% protection from sabs so rather then taking say 10M sab damage you would only take 4m sab damage

this means DA accounts could still buy DA and know a certain amount was 'protected'

i remember in the great no SAB age (age 2) DA and sentry ruled! all sabbers went slayers and if u had good sentry and DA u wouldnt get hit... you could sleep 3-4 hours safely cuz either they couldnt spy you or they couldnt hit u!

MeDDish

Sux0r
25th December 2009, 02:04 PM
yes

i figured.

Amak1131
26th December 2009, 01:06 AM
well the problem with that would be if u have 100B then it gets sabbed down to 42B then its always safe...
good idea... but...


Wrong. After damage, then 42% of 42B is safe and it works its way down.

M3J
26th December 2009, 06:34 PM
Spot on. Make DA weapons repairable instead to bring more variety to the game.
Bad idea, as that'd favor the bankers/rankers. I find reparation easier to recover from than breaking though.


Wrong. After damage, then 42% of 42B is safe and it works its way down.

But not when everyone sabs 100bil at the same time, I think. But I dunno.

6_9
27th December 2009, 06:41 AM
Bad idea, as that'd favor the bankers/rankers. I find reparation easier to recover from than breaking though.
Talk of the middle-sized accounts here. Not everyone wants to play Orcs/Elves style but many are forced to.

kjzaa
27th December 2009, 07:06 AM
1. UP is too easy to get, hence it being so low in price, surely you should have to make a decision about whether it will be worth the buy to the style your playing. currently the only decision is when to buy it, higher the cost to like what age 1 was.

2. Reason i do not buy DA. last age i probably had 8-10 people sabbing me daily , that would be around 3 bill damage or around there on sentry and spy, it would be impossible for me to upkeep DA if they were sabbing it, not because of what they sabbed away, but because of the insane repair costs from what you do to yourself, that would add aroud 3 bill to the tally, if i was trying to upkeep DA my account would be going down in value and what would be the point in that. Im foced to play the way i am (before age 2 i always had lots of DA and played the way i do now). LOWER THE REPAIR COSTS TO YOURSELF WHEN SABBING!!!

Changing the cost of the UP would help loads due to not every1 having it meaning people would have to work more to get the rewards eg. gold becoming more valuble and people trying to protect it more :)

Messias
4th January 2010, 12:05 PM
If you want to have a close race between DA & SA you should do something about the damage ratio of SA. Currently you have a 20% damage ratio compared to a 100% damage ratio (DA)... pretty obvious SA beats DA.

ThomMerrilin
4th January 2010, 06:14 PM
DA is less used for several reasons:

1: A slayer doesn't require DA (or care about it for that matter), only sentry to hide from stalkers.
2: sabbers dont need DA.
3: DA whores require INSANE sentry, to stop sabbers from just removing it all.
4: DA is instantly broken, SA isn't.
5: DA serves no purpose to anyone except a ranker. (if you would get hit for 4 turns, but you bank every 3 turns, DA isn't needed.)

I think another problem this age is, the #1 SA has such a lead over all other top DA's, that the investment needed to surpass the SA would just be impractical, as they would quickly get into range of too many sabbers.

Last age the top few SA's had a much less fractional TBG compared to the mains, than the #1 SA does this age (4M tff), which puts less stress in NEEDING hits to keep the pace.

Octo
5th January 2010, 01:53 PM
One word: Sentry.

cham
7th January 2010, 10:41 AM
You will get hit no matter how much DA you get if you sleep right. I think it's more effective to build sentry because if they cannot see or recon for your gold, the generally don't hit you. Plus, it also helps during war to lower sab damages. DA on the other hand serves just one purpose and if war breaks out, you are F*CKED. With building spy/sentry/SA, you only lose to resell or just repairs. If you build DA, the weapon is broken and gone.

:)

M3J
7th January 2010, 11:50 AM
You're not totally fucked as in wars, people tend to go after sentry, spy, and even SA, not just solely DA. Plus, DA can help prevent low hits and being farmed, as well as make 5x1 less effective as (I assume based on what others said) coverts don't die if lower SA hits higher DA.

CyberPunk
7th January 2010, 12:12 PM
You're not totally fucked as in wars, people tend to go after sentry, spy, and even SA, not just solely DA. Plus, DA can help prevent low hits and being farmed, as well as make 5x1 less effective as (I assume based on what others said) coverts don't die if lower SA hits higher DA.

yea, but if a player has 1bil SA, DA, Sentry, and Spy chances are DA is gonna be the first thing to be targeted.

nagrach
7th January 2010, 12:16 PM
yea, but if a player has 1bil SA, DA, Sentry, and Spy chances are DA is gonna be the first thing to be targeted.

iŽm sure Sentry will be the first thing that will be targeted ;)

M3J
7th January 2010, 02:23 PM
yea, but if a player has 1bil SA, DA, Sentry, and Spy chances are DA is gonna be the first thing to be targeted.

Not always. Many people play and think differently. I'm not saying they won't sab DA, many will, but not all will. It depends on many things though, I guess.
I have no idea what I"m talking about. I just wanna be right. <_<

Vrasp
7th January 2010, 03:40 PM
Not always. Many people play and think differently. I'm not saying they won't sab DA, many will, but not all will. It depends on many things though, I guess.
I have no idea what I"m talking about. I just wanna be right. <_<

And he didn't say it always would. He said "chances are."

Tapchou
7th January 2010, 04:17 PM
I told Vrasp to go do some math for Age 4 stuff, I'm going to wait and see what he comes up with (no, we won't use what Vrasp says, it's just nice to get some input from the community, if you want to do some math to try and balance stuff out, think of upgrades, bonuses and weapons etc etc).

Vrasp
7th January 2010, 04:18 PM
I told Vrasp to go do some math for Age 4 stuff, I'm going to wait and see what he comes up with (no, we won't use what Vrasp says, it's just nice to get some input from the community, if you want to do some math to try and balance stuff out, think of upgrades, bonuses and weapons etc etc).

So..."I told Vrasp to waste his time." =D

You will use it and you will like using it. Don't worry everybody! I'm a ranker I swear, so things will be awesome.

MeDDish
7th January 2010, 08:33 PM
so much of the SA vs DA question comes down to the players.....
this age DA is useless as there are to many Slayers for not enough DA whores
last age i believe it was a fairly close age and even matched
age 2 because sabbing was out late in the age, there was a lot of slayers as they couldnt sab :( so DA became less useful

SA and DA should be evenly matched! same as spy and sentry are
if u want to be a big slayer bank as often as a da whore, have the same sentry (or learn how to recycle properly) , find a sabber to spy for u and take their gold as often as its worth it

rabbitohs
7th January 2010, 09:31 PM
But if DA and SA are even, the DA whores get the advantage as they generally have bigger TFFs. The only way for a slayer to get higher SA than a DA whore would be to slay and have a smaller TFF so you would lose out in the long run because the DA whores get a higher TBG, or have a higher TFF and therefore, TBG but you wouldnt be able to slay anyone anyway without training down and losing your advantage

Vrasp
7th January 2010, 09:38 PM
But if DA and SA are even, the DA whores get the advantage as they generally have bigger TFFs. The only way for a slayer to get higher SA than a DA whore would be to slay and have a smaller TFF so you would lose out in the long run because the DA whores get a higher TBG, or have a higher TFF and therefore, TBG but you wouldnt be able to slay anyone anyway without training down and losing your advantage

Definitely.

Messias
8th January 2010, 02:30 AM
But if DA and SA are even, the DA whores get the advantage as they generally have bigger TFFs. The only way for a slayer to get higher SA than a DA whore would be to slay and have a smaller TFF so you would lose out in the long run because the DA whores get a higher TBG, or have a higher TFF and therefore, TBG but you wouldnt be able to slay anyone anyway without training down and losing your advantage

I myself never seen DA whores. Seen lots of SA whores using their 'banked gold' to slay thou...

Trekie4ever
8th January 2010, 08:49 AM
SA all the way to steeeaaaal goldz from all those wanker rankers. As long as you use your attack turns wisely, you can outgrow a days worth of banking in just a couple hits + you have your own gold you have banked.

MeDDish
10th January 2010, 01:56 AM
But if DA and SA are even, the DA whores get the advantage as they generally have bigger TFFs. The only way for a slayer to get higher SA than a DA whore would be to slay and have a smaller TFF so you would lose out in the long run because the DA whores get a higher TBG, or have a higher TFF and therefore, TBG but you wouldnt be able to slay anyone anyway without training down and losing your advantage

there is little to no penalty to hit a player ur only 10% bigger then (so a player with 91% of ur TFF!
also what happens if ur bigger? u get less gold, so ur banking as much as the DA whore, ur stealing their gold so they cant bank as much, and if worst comes to worst train down some more, those that are trained away u loose 1/2 the TBG on, but if u have enough coverts, ur TBG is gonna be higher then a DA Whore anyway?!?!?!?!?

its currently EASY AS HELL to get to SA 5x, but fking had and not normally worth it go over DA 4.4x or 4.6x most players only go larger is they are a TOP DA player, or want to get that bonus point!

P.S. currently (last checked 2 ages ago) DA goes over 5.0x ive never seen anyone buy it due to how expensive it is....
but its still there i think