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View Full Version : Bank To avoid autoattackers



Anima
24th November 2009, 08:07 AM
dont you think the game should have a bank system ? many games have it, it stops a lot of cheating (autoattackers) what u think ? everytime u sell your weapons the gold goes right to your bank...

Vrasp
24th November 2009, 08:08 AM
dont you think the game should have a bank system ? many games have it, it stops a lot of cheating (autoattackers) what u think ? everytime u sell your weapons the gold goes right to your bank...

Yeah, and it removes a major part of the end-game, which is selling off to a 'main account.'

Anima
24th November 2009, 08:12 AM
winner should be the best account ?? not the one that make deals and get sells from other chains............

Vrasp
24th November 2009, 08:23 AM
I guess, but it'd still be about making deals, yet would remove an aspect of the community. In theory it could prevent fakes from being made also, but who knows?

I think it would create less interactivity and communication between players because while clicks are one thing, sells are quite another, and those who click could just play solo or whatever instead (since, if you removed selling, the game would be totally about clicking and banking).

Let's face it - people are greedy. People will not be very likely to find hits for a 'slayer account' if that slayer doesn't click*, because in the end, the slayer can't do anything for him, etc etc.

Pr0nStar
24th November 2009, 08:27 AM
also a lot of players like to sell to friends or alliance members when they quit. and what autoattackers are you talking about. i keep seeing people throw that word around but can someone explain to me how these "autoattackers" work

snoop
24th November 2009, 08:30 AM
I don't think the game should have a banking system. The point of the game is to sign in and spend. If the game banks the gold for you, then that is not the point. Auto attackers are increasingly uncommon as we've begun to unravel signatures of current ones and ban players that we've caught using them.

Here is a short, but not exhaustive list of things that Tapchou and I have discussed and implemented in the new age 4 captcha library in order to avoid cheating:

In age 4 the staff has discussed several changes to the back end of captcha (though not visual) in order to prevent mechanical-turk style auto attackers, and buyers (those using a third party to solve the captcha); and we have found ways to catch players doing that based on our current logging technologies. In addition, certain changes to the time that the captcha persists will eliminate the ability to "presolve" a captcha.


Rather than dumb down the game in response to a few cheaters, I think most players that the game remain at least modestly challenging. If I had a bank set up every time I got gold, people wouldn't be able to attack me at all. This whole idea that people should attack for a certain number of turns, this is wrong, and this is just a step farther in this direction. Log in and spend if you don't like being attacked.


Another thought (which I'm adding on) is that catching people selling and onlining people for their upgrade sells is part of the game. Banking would ruin that part of the game and dumb it down for players that aren't good at the game.

tintinitis
24th November 2009, 03:53 PM
also a lot of players like to sell to friends or alliance members when they quit. and what autoattackers are you talking about. i keep seeing people throw that word around but can someone explain to me how these "autoattackers" work

are you SURE that you don't know?

Pr0nStar
24th November 2009, 06:25 PM
i'm sure i don't, but i could take a guess based on what snoop said. and if there is there party software that can crack roc's captcha...new captcha?

joly
25th November 2009, 01:11 AM
Make the captcha a relatively simple mathproblem, or show a color and you have to click on teh right colorcaptcha.

Character recognition is one thing, solving puzzles automatically is another.

Frost
26th November 2009, 08:26 AM
geez whats the point of even playing the game if you have a auto banker doing the work for you is the world coming to be that lazy, and how are you gonna find hits if there are none out there?

Shane-
26th November 2009, 09:25 AM
Snoop, the idea was that when you -sell- a weapon, It goes into a bank (IE: You have gold, and deposited gold), So the idea was that -When you sell- to a friend, or sell to get an upgrade, you don't have x amount of gold out for anyone to steal (IE: A auto tool doesn't see your gold, then steal it).

IE:
Shane sells 1,000 weapons
Gold: 1,337 (This doesn't change)
Bank: 750,000,000 (Or w/e sell price is)

then I click:
Upgrade from gold on hand
[Or]
Upgrade from gold in bank

But as many people have already said, Its a poor idea, The game works around community, selling to friends, buying credits, selling to main account at the end, so this type of idea would end up changing the dynamics of the game (Unless you add "Transfer Gold" option), But even then, that takes the fun away from the gold, selling/getting a sell is fun, gets your heart beating more if its large, The risk is always nice.

Saying that; The admins are easy to track people using tools that mass-scan battlefield, snoop knows himself how easy it is to review http logs, So if (By the looks of it), Snoop is working on RoC, He should be able to write a decent detection system to avoid these issues.


Shane

andyt683
26th November 2009, 03:30 PM
Snoop, the idea was that when you -sell- a weapon, It goes into a bank (IE: You have gold, and deposited gold), So the idea was that -When you sell- to a friend, or sell to get an upgrade, you don't have x amount of gold out for anyone to steal (IE: A auto tool doesn't see your gold, then steal it).

IE:
Shane sells 1,000 weapons
Gold: 1,337 (This doesn't change)
Bank: 750,000,000 (Or w/e sell price is)

then I click:
Upgrade from gold on hand
[Or]
Upgrade from gold in bank

But as many people have already said, Its a poor idea, The game works around community, selling to friends, buying credits, selling to main account at the end, so this type of idea would end up changing the dynamics of the game (Unless you add "Transfer Gold" option), But even then, that takes the fun away from the gold, selling/getting a sell is fun, gets your heart beating more if its large, The risk is always nice.

Saying that; The admins are easy to track people using tools that mass-scan battlefield, snoop knows himself how easy it is to review http logs, So if (By the looks of it), Snoop is working on RoC, He should be able to write a decent detection system to avoid these issues.


Shane

Yes, snoop is helping with age4. I am stepping back after this next round, and snoop and Tapchou are filling the void.

I understood the intended bank concept, and even tried it out in my own game, with lackluster results.

snoop
26th November 2009, 06:11 PM
Even if the game weren't about a community, I think my point about it being bad because it over simplifies the game; as in makes it too easy.

And yeah I figured out what he meant later, but either implementation would still be really bad for the game for the same reasons. There is such a thing as making the game way too easy. Having that risk there is part of the challenge of the game and part of why it's a game and competitive. Competition is the point of the game, people that lose gold during those self-sells should suck it up as it's a part of what makes the game hard. It effects everyone. The game isn't Ruins of Easy or Ruins of Simple or Ruins of Order, it's Ruins of Chaos; kill or be killed.

Tapchou
27th November 2009, 01:37 AM
Even if the game weren't about a community, I think my point about it being bad because it over simplifies the game; as in makes it too easy.

And yeah I figured out what he meant later, but either implementation would still be really bad for the game for the same reasons. There is such a thing as making the game way too easy. Having that risk there is part of the challenge of the game and part of why it's a game and competitive. Competition is the point of the game, people that lose gold during those self-sells should suck it up as it's a part of what makes the game hard. It effects everyone. The game isn't Ruins of Easy or Ruins of Simple or Ruins of Order, it's Ruins of Chaos; kill or be killed.

Note that shit down :eek:.

KyleCias
27th November 2009, 06:43 AM
if there are rules like below! people will stop playing :/

*auto bank
*auto attackers
*battlefield refreshers on Greesemonkey script
*sell catchers

is it possible for someone to attack you when you at page 100 and you sell.. 1 sec after sell he hits you.. how long does it take some one to search for gold hits and spy then attack.. lets not talk about spying.. lets blind attack when you see a gold.. it will take time.. not 1 second.

*to keep the game clean we can implement some rules.
--no sell allowed
--no scripts allowed

that way.. people will have enough gold in the battlefeild and better chance for someone to prove if they are worthy enough for the cause(rank)

the whole alliance sells to the main.. to win a game.. higher the amount of people plays for a clan.. wins the age.. :/

i dont know.. dont care no more :/

ChaosInfernal11
29th November 2009, 01:18 PM
First of all, there aren't 100 pages to search. There are realistically about 20 pages that matter. I scanned 20 pages in about 25-30 seconds, repeating the pattern. But some mechanism to prevent autoattackers even further is always good for the feeling of security and integrity.

Sells have always been a part of the game, and will be. To remove that would be horrible for the community. Yes, it's not always fair. But that's just the way it is.

KyleCias
29th November 2009, 01:55 PM
First of all, there aren't 100 pages to search. There are realistically about 20 pages that matter. I scanned 20 pages in about 25-30 seconds, repeating the pattern. But some mechanism to prevent autoattackers even further is always good for the feeling of security and integrity.

Sells have always been a part of the game, and will be. To remove that would be horrible for the community. Yes, it's not always fair. But that's just the way it is.

of course there are only 20 pages or more.. it was a example.. and i dont think this bank system will stop people from attacking.. it increase the cheating. the whole clan bank bank bank.. then sell to 1 person..

fistsofthor
29th November 2009, 03:20 PM
dont you think the game should have a bank system ? many games have it, it stops a lot of cheating (autoattackers) what u think ? everytime u sell your weapons the gold goes right to your bank...

I am not a fan. Additionally, a way of avoiding autoattackers also avoids regular attackers too. Additionally, having gold sit there is a fun part of this game.

However, what might be fun is if you had to wait a second between transactions. For example:
you sell some weapons.
you have to wait a second before you can buy weapons. once you buy weapons, you have to wait a second before you can sell weapons. I think it would make things slightly more interesting in terms of online attacks.

And, in theory, it would slow automated scripts for a while.

siX
16th December 2009, 01:47 PM
Yeah, and it removes a major part of the end-game, which is selling off to a 'main account.'

1st to reply :D

drank01
21st December 2009, 03:16 AM
if you don't like to lose your gold then just play another game ;)
the game is about stealing gold and making war ! !
if you really wanna sell lots of weapons ......it's just a risk you take, and yes you can be attacked within 2 seconds if you do that (i proved that lots of times )

as far as color code for captchas idea (sorry don't know who brought it up)
some people are collorblind and ofcourse my keyboard doesn't have a red or blue button

rabbitohs
21st December 2009, 03:22 AM
But your all for the green button? Ok cool :)

Yeah the colour blind part wouldnt work...

ThomMerrilin
21st December 2009, 05:22 AM
a person who was BANNED last age for cheating, is probably the one anima speaks of.

you can cheat every age if you want, you can always come back in the new age and do it some more. <-- view of the admins.

drank01
21st December 2009, 05:51 AM
people will always find ways to cheat in games
it would surprise you how many people have a second or third or... account
believe me the admins have enough tools to see if your cheating or not, but they can't just go and check everyone over and over ( except elves-eater and darkraver :rofl: )
but i don't really think there have been autoattackers present for a while now
some people are just faster then others
a bank function would just ruin the game because there would be nothing to attack anymore :wtf:

stonewall
21st December 2009, 07:20 AM
a person who was BANNED last age for cheating, is probably the one anima speaks of.

you can cheat every age if you want, you can always come back in the new age and do it some more. <-- view of the admins.

regretfully a very true statement repeated cheating and banning by the same person and still they play

Darkraver
27th December 2009, 11:23 AM
is it cheating if i didnt knew i couldnt refresh a page automatically last age
well they changed rules this age and its clear now
still i dont know why greasemonkey scripts with direct link from the battlefield to the attack captcha wasnt.

its 2 minutes work to change my ip and get an acoount with another name, but thats not what i wanted. i wanted to play without using a refresher and i dont need to cheat when there are so much people that are slow enough to catch them online
well there are enough big slayers that know the game and they cant be catched online unless you really pay attention to them (uhm scape ;)

snoop
27th December 2009, 12:01 PM
Dark_Raver: This is yet another thread that isn't about you. Under 1 second from a sell is not slow on that person's part. Hopefully others will not side track this thread more.

Darkraver
27th December 2009, 02:10 PM
yeah right they alway tell me it was under a second
even if they attack 2 people in a row and banked after that
that will take you more than a sec my biased friend

pigsfoot
27th December 2009, 07:11 PM
is it cheating if i didnt knew i couldnt refresh a page automatically last age
well they changed rules this age and its clear now
still i dont know why greasemonkey scripts with direct link from the battlefield to the attack captcha wasnt.

its 2 minutes work to change my ip and get an acoount with another name, but thats not what i wanted. i wanted to play without using a refresher and i dont need to cheat when there are so much people that are slow enough to catch them online
well there are enough big slayers that know the game and they cant be catched online unless you really pay attention to them (uhm scape ;)

Is it really that hard to press shift for a capital letter and find the apostrophe key? :whatgives

Amak1131
27th December 2009, 09:00 PM
Auto attackers are increasingly uncommon as we've begun to unravel signatures of current ones and ban players that we've caught using them.

Uncommon according to your signature checks, which can be changed to bypass said checks.

A bank would take some fun out of the game. "But it'll stop autoattackers!" No it won't. If people truly want to cheat, they will find a way. If someone can code it, someone can manipulate it to their benefit.

Prostatus
6th January 2010, 04:59 AM
My take on all this is that tons of people in an alliance that sell off to the main = pussyism and hella faggitness

The winner every age is just a tool, and no one cares who gets #1. Cuz we know you didnt earn it.

and as far as something to add in age 4. We need something that helps solo players. How come if you play this game solo its gotta be 100X harder. There should be a way that you can make an account that cannot have officers, cannot join alliance, and cannot be anyones officer, but they get some kind of benefit from being a "lone ranger" so to speak.

Pauly_D
6th January 2010, 05:06 AM
and as far as something to add in age 4. We need something that helps solo players. How come if you play this game solo its gotta be 100X harder. There should be a way that you can make an account that cannot have officers, cannot join alliance, and cannot be anyones officer, but they get some kind of benefit from being a "lone ranger" so to speak.

part of the game is about working with other people, building alliances and being part of the community, giving people a reward for actively avoiding becoming part of the community is a bit of a backwards move.

Messias
6th January 2010, 02:26 PM
I don't think the game should have a banking system. The point of the game is to sign in and spend. If the game banks the gold for you, then that is not the point. Auto attackers are increasingly uncommon as we've begun to unravel signatures of current ones and ban players that we've caught using them.

Based on the current 'banking system' I'd say 100 % Yea on a 'banking system'. Banking on ROC means stuffing up SA all the way. Wanna slay? Calculate the sabotage attempts & enjoy your 20 % loss.

Banking should stand alone & have no influence on any stats.