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Habsfan
5th January 2008, 12:38 AM
My idea is the same as mostly what I've heard but tweaked. Read it, I think it's the best as it's give and take for every type of player out there.

Sabotage

1 - If a player gets below a certain SA+DA armory strength, his spy tools become sabbable. This plays off the admins idea :"Percentage of a target's armory you can sabotage raised against players who were previously below the vulnerability level."

If a player gets below x # of armory strength (say 100 BPM's worth) his spy becomes sabotageable. This way wars aren't just sabbing each other's spy back and forth, but taking out the SA/DA and then going for spy. Wars require strategy, team work, etc.

It also eliminates untouchable all spy accounts by forcing them to play with the other stats as well. Rankers can still be wiped out of their weapons, but can also fight back against sabbers.

Edited in: For those of you who think that taking someone down to a certain number of weapons is hard, it's not. It just takes a while. While fighting ES there were many large accounts that got down to under 100 BPM's that were not sabbed. I don't care what the number of armory strength is, as long as your armory strength counts your UNSABBED weapons. This way a slayer with 900 BPM's can be brought down to 99 BPM's (or whatever number, I don't really care) and then lose his spy, so that he's not invincible.

I'm not poking fun at ES (because I'm sure it works the same for TPC) but in our war with them, we both had sustained such heavy losses that many of us only had spy/sentry left, and a few hundred sabbed BPM's - therefore our spy would now be up for grabs.

Also the 1% sabbing after a player get's below the admins 'untouchable' level allows them to be cleared further, and then opens up their spy.

Another note, most people think sabbing SA is impossible, but I can tell you that after warring TCL/ES/LaCN, then ES again, then JD, my top 30 SA turned into a top 100 SA, which really hurt. Again though notice I put x # of weapons, because I'm just saying that a certain strength could be put in.

2 - Get rid of the 100% completion if you have the stats to sab, you should only have 11 attempts to recon or sab

3 - .1% isn't a bad ratio if #1 is implemented

4 - Get rid of tool loss

5 - Get rid of sab turns

6 - Sentry can't be sabbable, it will destroy all accounts and will kill thegame - see age 9 beta.

Edit: Some people say that sentry should be sabbable, but if it is people will be left with actually nothing, and then the game loses all fun. This just allows the biggest alliance to win, everytime. For instance JD could crush any small chain because they could wipe their sentry, clear their weapons - game over. But if a chain with high sentry wants to fight someone, they should have a standing chance.

7 - Keep this: "Percentage of a target's armory you can sabotage raised against players who were previously below the vulnerability level."

Edit - this is the admins rule to allow those with very few weapons to actually be able to be sabbed again. This allows beginning of the age sabotage to be worth something, even against the big accounts.

Those are the ideas. Thoughts?

Edited for more complete description, and to rebuttal to the other posts made.

tiger45
5th January 2008, 01:18 AM
My idea is the same as mostly what I've heard but tweaked. Read it, I think it's the best as it's give and take for every type of player out there.

Sabotage

1 - If a player gets below a certain SA+DA armory strength, his spy tools become sabbable. This plays off the admins idea :"Percentage of a target's armory you can sabotage raised against players who were previously below the vulnerability level."

If a player gets below x # of armory strength (say 100 BPM's worth) his spy becomes sabotageable. This way wars aren't just sabbing each other's spy back and forth, but taking out the SA/DA and then going for spy. Wars require strategy, team work, etc.

It also eliminates untouchable all spy accounts by forcing them to play with the other stats as well. Rankers can still be wiped out of their weapons, but can also fight back against sabbers.

2 - Get rid of the 100% completion if you have the stats to sab, you should only have 11 attempts to recon or sab

3 - .1% isn't a bad ratio if #1 is implemented

4 - Get rid of tool loss

5 - Get rid of sab turns

6 - Sentry can't be sabbable, it will destroy all accounts and will kill thegame - see age 9 beta.

7 - Keep this: "Percentage of a target's armory you can sabotage raised against players who were previously below the vulnerability level."

Those are the ideas. Thoughts?

1 - Admins in beta already made the "untouchable" players touchable with raising it to 1% when they aren't in the range of 0.1%

2 - In age 8 , having the 100 % possibility to sab someone , killed the turns trying to sab someone , i lost 300 turns sabbing one person .. so it didn't even profit the sabbers ... just making them lose and lose more turns .. and stay with no sabbing .. now as there is no sab turns .. well .. it can be back to 11 attempts .. but , without recon .. like 10 attempts to recon and 10 to sabb ...

3 - I didn't really understand what you said .. 0.1% was making farmers vulnerable , you couldn't stop them , just watch them farming you , and waiting them to have 750,000,000 worth , to start sabbing 1 IS aat .. is that so fair .. I don't think .. well .. they added that you can use turns to be able to sabb up to 0.5 % .. still .. it didn't stop farmers .. they added like i said the 1% now for those who weren't touchable at the start .. mm .. so if someone have 100 IS now .. he can be sabbed 1 IS aat .. I think this is fair .. farmers will at least think twice before farming an account .. but then again .. after they have more than 750,000,000 worth , they will be at 0.1% again .. so it will be a good strategy for them to know what to do and thinking twice and more before farming .. and it would be hard for those who are near the 0,1% but still in 1% range .. they will get hurt the most .. coz let's say someone just have ISs , and he is at 999 IS .. he'll be at 9 IS aat .. and if they kept the 5 turns thing that you can use .. he will be at 45 IS aat .. and he will be hurt ..

4 - I agree if they will keep tools sabbable ..

5 - They did already in beta .

6 - I agree and don't agree at the same time .. Sentry is to protect from sabbing , so why it would be sabbed away .. but , if sentry should not be sabbable , why spy tools will be sabbable too ??? As I said in another post before .. a ranker .. could sab a sabber's spy , and whore sentry .. then no one will touch him .. bad idea to keep spy tools sabbable and get rid of sentry sabbabble , both , or nothing is better .. and age 9 beta isn't killed ... keneva and NJ are still #1 #2 :P .. and they are being sabbed by everyone that can sab them ..

7 - I already commented about that ..

snakeye
5th January 2008, 01:20 AM
6 - Sentry can't be sabbable, it will destroy all accounts and will kill thegame - see age 9 beta.

I don't think so. Basically if you sab someone's sentry, you're kind of digging your own grave, because you'll have a whole alliance on you and you won't have anymore tools left to sab another guard dog in the game.

Every weapon being sabable will result in more diplomacy, it won't be like in age 9 beta at all. I think that everyone just went nut in the beta for fun.

tiger45
5th January 2008, 01:23 AM
I don't think so. Basically if you sab someone's sentry, you're kind of digging your own grave, because you'll have a whole alliance on you and you won't have anymore tools left to sab another guard dog in the game.

Every weapon being sabable will result in more diplomacy, it won't be like in age 9 beta at all. I think that everyone just went nut in the beta for fun.

I agree with you , coz i was already taken down sabbing keneva :)

meeker
5th January 2008, 01:41 AM
you cannot compare the we lose all weapons in beta with a real age. Most of the people that have no weapons left sold all their weapons for spy(or to other accounts). More spy means more sabbing but only for a few days. Also the i lost all my spy so us sabbers can be touched isnt really a valid argument cause the reason of the spy loss is mostley the unlimited attack turns.

Blitz
5th January 2008, 02:14 AM
My idea is the same as mostly what I've heard but tweaked. Read it, I think it's the best as it's give and take for every type of player out there.

Sabotage

1 - If a player gets below a certain SA+DA armory strength, his spy tools become sabbable. This plays off the admins idea :"Percentage of a target's armory you can sabotage raised against players who were previously below the vulnerability level."

If a player gets below x # of armory strength (say 100 BPM's worth) his spy becomes sabotageable. This way wars aren't just sabbing each other's spy back and forth, but taking out the SA/DA and then going for spy. Wars require strategy, team work, etc.

It also eliminates untouchable all spy accounts by forcing them to play with the other stats as well. Rankers can still be wiped out of their weapons, but can also fight back against sabbers.

2 - Get rid of the 100% completion if you have the stats to sab, you should only have 11 attempts to recon or sab

3 - .1% isn't a bad ratio if #1 is implemented

4 - Get rid of tool loss

5 - Get rid of sab turns

6 - Sentry can't be sabbable, it will destroy all accounts and will kill thegame - see age 9 beta.

7 - Keep this: "Percentage of a target's armory you can sabotage raised against players who were previously below the vulnerability level."

Those are the ideas. Thoughts?I generally like this idea. Only thing to be cautious of is armory value of SA weapons, as they can be held if sabotaged. Could be easily exploited.

jog1
5th January 2008, 10:04 AM
it's easy to buy and keep over 100 BPMs even in a war, most sabber do have a load of SA too.

Scooter
5th January 2008, 10:33 AM
I like all your ideas. You need to work to be able to sab the extra weapons. Also, i like the idea of splitting up the sab/recon attempts, it just makes more sense.

Shane-
5th January 2008, 10:55 AM
#1:
Bad idea, As a sabber can buy a load of SA, And not use it, This in effect makes his spy weapons not sabable, Unless it is something like x% of armomy value has to be SA/DA...

#2:
Depends, Maybe if tool lose stays, Then allow us to try as much as we want, As the more trys we try, the more we lose

#3:
Depends, If a player has less then 0.1%, then allow us to take 1% (Like in beta), So we can still sab those annoying farmers

#4:
Possible

#5:
Yes

#6:
If you make spy sabable, make sentry sabable, Its a case of allow both or be sabbed, or protect both

#7:
Not 100% how you mean


Shane

Blitz
5th January 2008, 11:05 AM
If you make spy sabable, make sentry sabable, Its a case of allow both or be sabbed, or protect both

I highly disagree...Making sentry sabbable would be a disaster. Perhaps sentry could be destroyed through other means, (like mass turns), but certainly not through sabotage.

Spy tools should be sabbable, as sabbers have been impossible to take down to this point. But, it shouldn't be too easy to take them down--harder than taking down a slayer--nor should there be large loopholes that once again make them invincible.

Custos
5th January 2008, 11:20 AM
Sabbers suffer through tool loss you sure as dont lose your bpms when farming but you do when sabbing thats y you should make sentry tools sabable if you going to make spy tools sabable, otherwise the rankers will be laffing yet again for another age :(

NardHipples
5th January 2008, 11:29 AM
1. a percentage is better than a set # of weapons. even if its low like 5-10% of your bought value must be in SA/DA in order for your nuns to be protected, it still forces the smaller elf accounts to buy something other than spy and gives people a better chance to outgrow them like they should be able to.

2. agreed, this was one of the stupidest ideas of age 8. maybe up the success rate for sabs just a little bit and allow 20 total attempts to recon or sab on each player?

3. yeh it aint too bad. something needs to be done for the first month or so of each age cuz sabbing sticks and helmets for a month is no fun. i'm guessing #7 fixes this?

4. needs to stay if there are no sab turns. if you want the pesky little dudes with nothing but spy to be hurt, its a whole lot better when they have to worry about tool loss. lower the % of nuns you lose a bit though obviously -_-

5. agreed, although some rankers may not like it. at least double the amount you get if eliminating them is too much -_-

6. agreed, spy and sentry being sabbable = no point to doing anything cuz you will end up with no weapons anyway.

7. sounds good, can't play the beta to see if it actually does something.

Habsfan
5th January 2008, 11:46 AM
Original post edited to make some appropriate changes. Keep brainstorming with me please.

Sab needs to become good for the game to be popular yet again.

NardHipples
5th January 2008, 12:40 PM
your edit on #1 still leaves midranged accounts way to vulnerable. like i said in the other thread, its dumb to suggest changes to fix a problem with .05% of the koc population while not thinking about the huge % of people it will have a negative affect on.