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aTortis
27th November 2007, 05:33 PM
I am so glad that this was made. I am going to post my ideas as of this point in time below, please tell me your thoughts on them and such (one thing, I just copied and pasted this message from my outbox, so it may be a bit strange, sorry)

Alright, here are a few plans and a few specifics of what I have planned to change this game. Please read through them carefully, think about them, and then tell me what your best pick is and why. I don't want to make the decision by myself. The main thing that you need to remember is that we just need to show the admins that there are plenty of people that don't want clicking.
(1) We can start going to the forum and try to get the administrators to get rid of clicking. It is very hard to do this though. We would need to get at least 500 to start actually going into the forum to discuss the issue. When I did my research, there were only maybe 50 out of the 30,000 that were actually posting comments on the subjects. That is way too small of an amount to really decide anything. I think that that is part of the reason that the admins don't bother with what everyone says in there because it is such a small percentage of the actual players. I think that if there were 500 people that were commenting, they would be more inclined to maybe do something. So, we would have to get lots of people into the forum to try and do this, but there is always the possibility of it not working because the admins can be a pain. That is what I have on that one.
(2) We can try to make a change by force. This would be a little more tricky and would take alot more man power. At the start of the new age, we could try and keep the numbers and money on the big clans down. We would have to gather at least 5,000 players onto our side to do so. We would just keep attacking the big clans while their numbers are low and they aren't too powerful. We would have to try and keep them low too. We would basically be starting a full scale war against them :) They would all be attacking us, while we are attacking them. If we were able to just keep their numbers low and make our lives miserable, then they may start complaining and maybe even quitting. Perhaps then when the admins see what is going on, they may be more inclined to give us what we want. I have talked with several friends who stopped playing because of all the bull that goes on with the clicking and such. If we did get rid of clicking, then perhaps KoC would gain some more players back. I think that the admins would like that part of it.

(3) Instead of clicking, just limit the number of officers each person can have and only let them get one guy per day from those 50. That would still make being a commander seem enticing, while closing the gap between them and smaller alliances. This would save time, bloodshed, and countless headaches that would be caused if we were to go with option #2. I think that this would be the most probable solution to the problem, but again, the admins may not be willing to do this.

So there are the few plans that I have up to this point. Please write back giving me your opinions, new ideas, or even just a comment. I will do my best to get back to you as soon as possible. If we try and have dedication, we can pull something off.


aTortis

Tycho_Bloodbeard
27th November 2007, 08:53 PM
You're really irked about the clicking, aren't you?

Maybe consider playing something different? I mean, you might hate chess, and instead propose that instead of capturing pieces by replacing them you "leap" over them... It could be an interesting game, but it's no longer chess. You remove clicking, it's no longer KoC.
Clicking is indeed an integral part of KoC - why not just play something else? If you made a chain with 5,000 active players (i.e. no fakes) you'd have the biggest ever alliance and I can guarantee you'd win an age. Not a big chance of that, I'm afraid, since even the largest chains don't have that number of active players.

I can barely click (bad computer, bad connection) and I still have a mid-level account (rank ~300). It's never been my intention to go for #1 rank, but if you do, you have to put the work, which would make it no different than any other game that's not completely based on random factors.

KoC is not a particularly hard game. The people that dedicate more time to it (spending more hours hunting for gold, not losing theirs by poor banking and YES, clicking) tend to do better than those that do not. Social skills are also important - but other than that, there's not much to typing captchas, is it?

Why should a guy that doesn't put much time and effort in the game should have a knock at #1 instead of someone like Henry last age? Why does it need to change so desperately?

The game is declining, for sure. But clicking is not killing it. For one, the gameplay is very rudimentary and most people will eventually get bored. If anything, those going for the top ranks have paid their dues as n00bs and they've gained the respect of their chainmates to support their bid for #1. I haven't done so (nor intend to, I can't/won't commit that much to this) so I shouldn't have a chance at winning.

Tycho

aTortis
27th November 2007, 09:47 PM
I still love this game, and I really don't want to go play another and see this one die. I would rather change how it is now and try and help make it better so more people will be inclined to play.

Tycho_Bloodbeard
27th November 2007, 10:41 PM
The game is fun and I do appreciate attempts to improve it.

As things stand now, clicking is the source of revenue (i.e. making your game still free and not having to buy, say, the online version of warcraft or whatever). But that aside, what I don't really get is what is the whole idea behind stopping clicking.

Is it making army sizes (and TBG, etc.) more even across the board? While this may cause more people to have shot at #1, it also rewards occasional play over those that put a big effort, not only clicking but also designing and maintaining the clickers themselves. I think it is undesirable that a player like me has a similar chance to "win" an age as those more dedicated than I.

There are other games similar to KoC with no clicking, and that changes the dynamics very deeply. No longer you really need a chain to support you (after all, your friends can sab/attack without being in your clan), no recruiting is necessary, no attempt to break-up chains during wars would be attempted. I think these factors (and KoC being one of the first MMORPGs) keep players in the game - and yes, clicking and having clicking officers contribute to create these dynamics.

All those things make a non-clicking KoC a wholly different game!!! What do you perceive to be the advantages of a non-clicking version?

Tycho

llVllushroomll-llead
27th November 2007, 10:52 PM
I absolutly think that clicking should be eliminated, but thats not to say cold turkey. I wuoldnt midn teh unit per day alowment being amped up some more. Koc is supposed to be a strategy game, but when the only strategy that works is to click hardcore, then I guess there is a reason Im just a casual player. Im only casual in comparasin to harcore clickers but still. I log on everyday and know that with out have to "pledge alegiance" or going around asking for a clicker, I cant possibly compete in this game, and that leaves me with soemthing to be desired.
If need be, perhaps a second "realm" perhapse or something of the like may be created for the upcoming age? So that you can pick a clicking "realm/world/battlefield/ etc" or a non-clicking one.
I think that is a possible adaptaition that could make everyone happy. I'd be just as happy to play a different version. SO long as the only part of the game that changes, or in this case, would be variable is the presence of clicking.
If that is unreasonable, then something to make up for the loss of clicking would please me just as much. Again, an increase in levels of unit production for example.
Im not saying the world has to strive to please me, Im just saying I know what I want, but Im willing to compromise, because I know I cannot always expect that things will turn my way. You dont get everything you want, but we will definatly try here, you dont gain anything by sitting around brooding after all. I certanly would enjoy a descussion about this or even the possibilities of a compromise.
Everything I speak of is of course theoretical, so all I ask for is discussion, possibilities. Im not looking for answers untill that time comes.

llVllushroomll-llead
27th November 2007, 10:57 PM
Also, please excuse my HORRIBLE grammer, punctuation, etc. Please dont discredit my opinions because of it.

biglou250
27th November 2007, 11:45 PM
I agree with Tycho, without clicking KoC would lose its uniqueness out of the vast amount of MMORPG out there. I've played some of the others out there and none of them come close to the KoC community and the way its organized.

Checkman
28th November 2007, 12:09 AM
Maybe an option for the admins would be to create 2 'parallel universes' - one for those who want to click, and one for those who don't. Just a guess - but I would imagine that the benefits that the officers receive from a commander who clicks - there would be more players in the clicking version........

Tycho_Bloodbeard
28th November 2007, 11:10 AM
Maybe an option for the admins would be to create 2 'parallel universes' - one for those who want to click, and one for those who don't. Just a guess - but I would imagine that the benefits that the officers receive from a commander who clicks - there would be more players in the clicking version........

How is this different that playing one of the KoC spinoffs that don't support clicking? If you're really against this feature, vote with your feet.

I think clicking is what makes KoC so popular among online games (and it was one of the first of these types of games, too). Without clicking/trickling or other tangible benefits, there's no incentive to forming chains and sticking together. It also makes it free, and without requiring a monetary contribution to "enhance" your game experience. Search for similar games (heck, click in the ads on the KoC recruit pages) - for only $/month you can have better fortifications, more troops, or even an autobuyer to prevent losing your gold. You pay your dues somehow - these clicks also keep the game free. You need to invest something to play more than casually - it could be time (clicking), money (pay for enhanced service in another game), or skills (if you can program, moderate a forum, organize or recruit effectively a chain may "subsidize" your growth if you can't/won't click) but you're required to contribute with some efforts to improve your rank.

This is one of the reasons why KoC has a large, active community. Intending to have a game "like" this one without this feature is building on a shaky foundation with no understanding of the social dynamics created by the clicking/trickling. You CAN'T have a game with these dimensions without rewarding somewhow groups of players - it's much to easier to do your own stuff and not get organized if a lone player can perform just as well as a group.

I'm not saying the admins are awesome game designers (by their admission, the viral component of the clicking had caught them by surprise). Clicking and trickling are probably not the optimal trait to promote a social game, but just taking them away from the structure as it exists now without establishing something to take their place and benefit groups in lieu of isolated players will result in a loss of this dimension.

Tycho

aTortis
29th November 2007, 09:43 PM
I think that it is only proper that I give an explanation as to why I am trying to do this. I have played on and off since about age 2. I have always disliked the idea of clicking for a couple of reasons. The main reason why I really don't care for it is because there are many players that don't want to join a big clan because they would like to play independently. When they do so, it tends to be harder to advance in rank because you are not getting as many guys as those in the big clans (more guys = more money). I am not saying that they can't get high ranked, it is just a little harder to do so. I have finally decided to try and do something about it though. I know that there have been many tries in the past and they all have failed. However, I think that I may be able to pull it off. I am not going to say how, but I really think that I, along with the help of many other people, will be able to pull it off. I have spoken with many players, and alot of them say that they would love to see clicking eliminated, even some people in the bigger clans have told me so. I have had quite a bit of support from quite a few players in trying to elminate it from another game. Alot of you will ask : "Why don't you just go and play another game?" Why should I? I have no reason to when I am quite fond of this one. I just think that a few things need to be changed. It was interesting to me when I was reading the history of KoC. It started out with like 200,000 players, now it is down to a measly 21,000. How did that happen? It is a fun game, I am sure that all of you will agree with me on that one, so what happened. New games, time, things they didn't like, all had a contribution to it I am sure. From many people that I have talked to that have quit playing this, they have said that one of the biggest reasons that they quit was because of clicking. I just think if we got rid of clicking, or replaced it with a different system, that it would be better for the game in the long run.

So that is why I am trying to do this. You can criticize me all you want, but that is my unshakeable opinion.

aTortis

Tycho_Bloodbeard
29th November 2007, 10:33 PM
I guess we'll see how it goes :)

I do have one observation, although the decline of players is clear, it's not 10x. Back in the day of the 200,000 accounts, lots of them were multis. It'd be interesting to see how many of those were real players, and how many really left.

Tycho

aTortis
30th November 2007, 07:36 AM
Again, I am just trying to make the game more enjoyable for everyone in the game. I don't want to see this game decline, I would actually love to see it grow huge again (even if half the accounts were multis).

Tycho_Bloodbeard
30th November 2007, 10:43 AM
There'd we have to agree to disagree, then.

I'd rather have a smaller, clean game. I had a few clan wars where I was massed by 15-20 accounts who were then proved to be multis.

Now I rarely have, even in large wars, 15-20 regular opponents in my logs. And there's still some fakes, but less. If you think that clicking is more imbalanced than losing thousands troops/coverts to a single player using dozens of accounts, then we're not talking about the same.

Out of curiousity, do you belong to a chain/clan?

Tycho

aTortis
30th November 2007, 03:21 PM
I am commander of a very smally chain. We have not come up with a name yet, so I can't tell you what it is. I only had one officer until about a week ago when I started this whole thing, but I gained 2 more through it. That is the extent of my clan so far. If you want to check it out, my game name is the same as this one, aTortis. How about you?

One comment on your last post, maybe we don't want multi accounts, but it would still be nice to get the game up in numbers. Wouldn't you agree?

aTortis

Tycho_Bloodbeard
30th November 2007, 05:15 PM
Yea, it's better to have a large population than a small one - it's a social game :)

I run my namesake account on Koc, and I'm one of the "leaders" of a mid-size clan - Dedicated Elite Soldiers or DES. We've been around for a while, but I only joined in Age 4. The KoC clan ranking listed us at 225 members or so.

We help each other a lot, I am a battlefield organizer ("warmaster", we call them) and dedicate a bucketload of my free time (2 h/day or more) to organize the clan's activities, sab targets, hunt for gold, etc. What I'm basically saying is that even though I do all that, and invest that much time, it's much less than that of the true leaders of the big chains. And though they click much, and receive many clicks in return, those guys stick together since they're friendly, have compatible goals (i.e. the right amount of wars or sabs), and decent teamwork.

I personally can't click much, but a few guys in my chain have helped me by "boosting" my account - I guess they think that my contribution is worthy, even though I'm not a clicker. I'd much rather see a system that rewards these social "skills" without clicking, but the current system also keeps our game free.

If you find a viable alternative, then I'm all ears. But I think most of us won't pay $ to play KoC - most just invest time. It'd be essential to reward social collaboration to keep a similar gameplay, though.