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ffmaster
12th August 2007, 01:27 AM
the balance between races has been messed up with the introduction of the undead race...not so much that the elves have lost their double rank bonus but the fact that undead have a bonus to sentry which is a stat bonus as well as a decrease in the amount of soldiers lost...

with undead having 2 types of bonuses it would be a good idea to come up with a secondary bonus for each race...based on how they are seen in games...

-humans Greed better % on gold steals
-orcs Power better % on the random facter (less of a spread)
-dwarfs Iron Will defence loss decreased (harder to sab da)
-elf Keen Sight improved gold sight (need a spy 1.5x the targets sentry and not 2x)
-undead Immortal keep the casualties loss 50% is perfect...if it applies to coverts aswell

all of these would really help improve the even use of the races...also the exact bonuses are arguable... but if one has 2 bonuses... a bonus and a "sub-bonus" then they should all have it...

also sorry for the names :p i just thought some kind of name added to the sub bonus may also help in the even decision of races...

El Vista
12th August 2007, 02:57 AM
what's the difference between the orc and the human one ;)

just take out the casualty bonus and it'll do fine

beebob2uk
12th August 2007, 05:56 AM
Orcs 1,367 19%
Elves 1,678 24%
Humans 1,593 23%
Dwarves 1,390 20%
Undead 1,023 15%
Total 7,051 100%

the spread right now is the most even it has ever been, and even with the 'sub-bonus' undead has the lowest number of players, so i think this thread is pretty pointless

Wraith-
12th August 2007, 08:46 AM
If the undead didn't have their casualty sub-bonus, few people would actually be playing as them.

jog1
12th August 2007, 08:48 AM
Orcs 1,367 19%
Elves 1,678 24%
Humans 1,593 23%
Dwarves 1,390 20%
Undead 1,023 15%
Total 7,051 100%

the spread right now is the most even it has ever been, and even with the 'sub-bonus' undead has the lowest number of players, so i think this thread is pretty pointless

This isn't the right numbers. Since we can change race all the time. If we would have to keep the same race all the time numbers would be different.

Humans are mostly people online/home at the time so they get more income. Undead Dwarves are mostly people sleeping/at work.
Elves are mostly people sabbing reconning for gold.

I'm home right now so I'm human. But I would never be human in a real age.

So these numbers means nothing

Nameless_87
12th August 2007, 10:14 AM
This isn't the right numbers. Since we can change race all the time. If we would have to keep the same race all the time numbers would be different.

Humans are mostly people online/home at the time so they get more income. Undead Dwarves are mostly people sleeping/at work.
Elves are mostly people sabbing reconning for gold.

I'm home right now so I'm human. But I would never be human in a real age.

So these numbers means nothing

I completely agree... everyone is changing races as see fits and i think undead are the least ones people will choose when it comes to the real age, so something has to be done.

ffmaster
12th August 2007, 10:25 AM
what's the difference between the orc and the human one ;)

just take out the casualty bonus and it'll do fine

the difference is for humans the % of the gold steal is generally higher (not down at 60-70% like it often can be)

and the orc bonus affects the actual attack...the random factor is too harsh some times...ive seen people with 1.5x the person's da in sa and was defended...so a better % on the actual hit itself...nothing to do with the gold

Cruel Intentions
12th August 2007, 10:46 AM
This idea is actually very well thought out. I like the idea that you have on all of those, but I think that the Humans and Orcs need to be diversified a little bit more.

Personally, during the night when I am sleeping I put my guy on Undead so I won't get attacked because I'll have a lot of gold, and my untrained won't get hurt as much. The fact that you can change races really has improved the game and I think this would make it even better too.

Lord of forest
12th August 2007, 11:22 AM
Actually the second bonus you suggest for elves wouldn't help that much. Elves play for spy, so they'll easily have 2x the spy than what others have in sentry anyways. A higher success rate for sabbing would be better, ... although I think whatever this second bonus system looks like, it will never be implemented.

NardHipples
12th August 2007, 12:01 PM
orc bonus you suggest already exists.

the undead already have the shittiest bonus so they need a sub bonus that other races don't have for people to even think about choosing them.

ffmaster
13th August 2007, 10:13 PM
the point is dont give one a sub bonus and not the rest...if you take the undead sub then its fair again...if they add in to each one then it becomes more interesting...

also as far as the spy bonus not meaning anything...have you ever tried to play a smaller account and build on spy to see more gold? it sucks and the high sentries on low da targets makes for good farms to get smaller accounts a kick in the right direction

NardHipples
14th August 2007, 03:24 AM
the point is dont give one a sub bonus and not the rest
lol why not? sentry is by far the most useless stat and 25% is weak as hell for a main bonus. they NEED something else or no one will pick them and they will be completely useless.

kurogina
14th August 2007, 05:12 AM
i dont care too much about this topic but the sentry sub bonus is either as or more important as the main one, so for the others one make an almost useless sub bonus if they're going to

Od1n
14th August 2007, 07:15 AM
the point is dont give one a sub bonus and not the rest...if you take the undead sub then its fair again...

I don't think it's unfair. Bonuses need to be weighed, not counted. Right now, the undead is far but overpowered.

If you're fond of symmetry I can imagine you want everyone to have 2 bonuses. I wouldn't mind that, but the undead's bonus certainly has to be increased then.

ffmaster
16th August 2007, 05:25 AM
i agree...defence bonus is more than the attack bonus...and seeing as how the sentry bonus is to counter the spy bonus it should be more like 40% and not 25%...

taiki3
21st August 2007, 04:59 PM
I think a way to increase popularity of undead would be to allow them to gain a percentage of the soldiers they kill during battle, it would make sense for their race

NardHipples
21st August 2007, 05:28 PM
would swing it far too much in their favor.

Grim
6th September 2007, 08:22 PM
Personally, its still orcs or elves for me :ban-cha::

aru-hito
7th September 2007, 07:45 PM
Everybody's ripping on the undead race but it's actually ok. I mean, they've really got defense going on all angles. They have the 50% less dead going for them so when they get attacked, they'll lose less people (which is great if you're a player relying on a high income) and with the sentry bonus, should you choose to play a defensive role, you're defense weaponry can't be sabbed as easily. I think if you're going for the defensive role, undead would be my choice over dwarves anytime.

In case I get a reply to this with 'Well what race do you play?' and the abuse that follows when I say that I'm not playing as undead, I'm not patient at all and I enjoy attacking people so I am playing as elves/humans. What they choose to do with the sab turns in the real age will influence my final choice.

ffmaster
9th September 2007, 08:57 PM
actually what id say based on your choice would be...orcs = attack duh :P

tbh undead is a nub race...unless they can alter it with better % its useless...

aru-hito
10th September 2007, 05:08 AM
True that... but I like keeping tabs on my bfriend. That means i like the increased covert for recon and possibly keeping him in line with a bit of gentle sabbing if need be. What can I say? I'm a cruel mistress ;P

I love you're little avatar there btw. I have to ask, more of a cloud or sephiroth kinda guy?

ffmaster
14th September 2007, 05:35 AM
then just talk him into another race :P other then ranking....this bonus has just about no use at all seeing as how you can recon much easyer now...

as far as my avvy....i can safely say that cloud is my fave main character while sephiroth is my fave enemy (i made the mistake if leveling aeris really hard just to see her die -_- )