Books The wheel of time by robert jordan [Archive]

mccoythelegend

6th September 2004, 02:43 PM

Another Irony is that Luc is the probably the killer of Rands Father, his own brother in law. They are blood kin though in a sense. 20+generations back they all descend from Ishara. Elayne has 23 links by blood to Ishara, Rand has more. They are blood related, but its so far back "If they were farmers" (as Rand asked Deyelin) they wouldn't be considered related at all.

And as for books remaining in the series, RJ has been saying " at least 3 more books" since Lord of Chaos. That still hasn't changed. And I don't doubt that 13 will be the number he tries for, given its relevence in the series. Thats probably why CoT was such a waste of paper, he was needlessly padding so that the series finishes on book 13. Perrin and Mat have both dithered for a whole book, Rand sat in an Inn, Elayne had a bath, Egwene was retarded, book over. Only one worthwhile page, in which Shaidar Haran talked to Alviarin and Mesanna. Perrin could have wiped out the Shaido in Winters Heart if he had the sense to open a gateway to get Bael and Davram Bashere (erm, Davram, the Shaido have captured your daugh - wait for me!). Its not like secrecy is an issue when the prophets army is already tagged on to his. Mat has become as whiney as Perrin, he isn't even funny anymore. And mostly, RJ has turned every female character in the books into mini nynaeves. Only Min and Cadsuane have been spared the annoyingness.

Most of all he still hasn't told us - who killed Asmodean?!!!

Morridini

6th September 2004, 02:51 PM

Well he has confirmed that it will only be 12 main books.
as for who killed Asmodean you should read this if u have the time. It is very interesting: Who killed Asmodean? (http://www.darkfriends.net/wheel/1_dark/1.1_forsaken1/1.1.6_asmo.html)

mccoythelegend

6th September 2004, 03:01 PM

He confirmed 9 main books at one point just before Lord of Chaos was published. And he said 3 more books in his last interview, after every book, lol. And he changed his mind about Balefire 6 months ago too. Now it appears that Balefire can be reversed by the Dark One if the amount used isn't very much. Foreshadowing that Be'lal (balefired by a small amount - Moiraine) can return in another body. How annoying is RJ. Never believe him. He lies.

Oh and I've done the theories on that board to death. It just gets annoying after a while. Its obvioulsy Graendal, but odd people keep arguing that Lanfear killed him with her wish from The doorway. They're odd.

Morridini

6th September 2004, 09:54 PM

Balefire can't be reversed by the Dark One. Where did u hear that?

maulkat

6th September 2004, 11:48 PM

That was one question I have had since Asmodean was killed. I don't remember if I asked that on the GUA or not. I am looking through the link you posted, so maybe that will answer the question. Yeah, the last thing I had asked about was Luc/Isam. It is coming accross to me that he would be schitsophrenic (spelling). Several personality's in one body. Also, I just finished book nine and I think Lanfear was given a new body. The female that is with Moridin. She is going by the name of Cyndane and at the end of book nine, Cyndane is thinking about getting her hands on Rand and the female he is channeling with (Nynaeve). Thinking she (Nynaeve) is Rand's lover and he has betrayed her (Cyndane) by,.....well, you get the idea, I hope. That is something Lanfear would think of. None of the other Forsaken have that kind of attraction for Rand. What do you think?

Morridini

7th September 2004, 07:01 AM

Yeah I think that Cyndane is Lanfear. Who other Forsaken do we know/belive has been reborn?
I think Moridin is Ishamael reborn, what do u think?
And those two who died at the end of book one has become Osan'gar and Aran'gar. And the male of those two is dead, right?

maulkat

8th September 2004, 12:11 AM

Osan'gar is Dashiva. Isn't Aran'gar Halima? That was something else we talked about in the old post. So that would mean the male is not dead. BTW, on page 754 of the paperback for Winter's Heart, it states Osan'gar has been masquerading as Dashiva. Also, if Lanfear is back as Cyndane, could not Moraine be back as well? As for Moridin being Ishamael reborn, I don't think so. We know almost nothing about him, Other than him being able to channel the "True" Power. What is the difference? That has never really been explained. Going off an idea I have....the "True" Power is a combination of the male and female sides of the Source. Might Moridin be male and female? A person we would call a hermefrodite (spelling). What do you think?

Morridini

8th September 2004, 03:15 AM

First, Dashiva died at the end of Winters Heart. So Osan'gar is dead

Second, the True Power is not both Saidar and Saidin. Both man and woman can use the True Power but it can only be granted by the Dark One. So the True Power is an evil version of the One Power, and only Ishamael and Moridin has been alowed to use it as they like.

mccoythelegend

8th September 2004, 10:27 AM

RJ said balefire is reversible on his section of Tor's website. cant be bothered to find a link, but it was in the question and answer section. It annoyed everyone on the Blacktower.net forums when we found out. Suffice to say that only if the amount is small. Which means Rahvin can't come back but Be'lal might.

Aginor is unlikely to get resurrected again in a hurry, but before the battle the DO should bring back Sammael, given that Demandred is inept now that we've seen him in action. He needs someone competant to lead his forces. Mashadar shouldn't be able to prevent his resurrection.

Moiraine can't return until Mat and Thom go to get her back. They have to enter the Tower of Ghenji (which could probably be in the next book according to some RJ hints about plot resolution.

Splat

8th September 2004, 10:43 AM

I believe Morridin is Ishamael reborn. Considering that they are hte only two people we know have been granted liberal use of the tru power, and that both Ishamael and Morridin appear to be the de facto leaders of the Forsaken, it makes a fair bit of sense. Regardless, Morridin IS Nae'blis.

mccoythelegend

8th September 2004, 10:53 AM

Its actually confirmed that they are the same.... At the Forsaken Council in Winter's Heart. And Semirhage is probably Anath, Tuon's advisor.

Morridini

8th September 2004, 12:21 PM

I new I had seen your nick before mccoythelegend. I never connected it to Blacktower.net though. I once was a member there, but by some reason I just fell out after some time. Don't know why.

Anvar

8th September 2004, 01:42 PM

Morodin says somewhere that he is thousands of years old, and he remembers stuff from the last full turning of the wheel,so he has seen it all before, like when rand will go blind etc.

maulkat

9th September 2004, 12:10 AM

I did not notice that part at the end of Winter's Heart. I had to go back and reread it. There is no body left of Dashiva, but he might have gotten away. He could have Travelled. Now saying he did, but he might still be alive. I guess I can't disagree with you in thinking Moridin is Ishamael reborn. I really liked the end of Winter's Heart and now I am about 100 pages or so into book ten. I can't think of the name since I don't have it in front of me. Also, on the old board I was led to beleive, Mat has no knowlege of who the Daughter of the Nine Moons is. Though on page 687, Egeanin says, " It's death by slow torture to lay hands on the Daughter of the Nine Moons." She was addressing Mat and Naol. That old man he gave shelter to when he "rescued" him from the gholm. He then desides to kidnap her instead of just leaving her behind.

Splat

9th September 2004, 08:29 AM

Yes maulkat, he's bringing her with him because he knows he's going to marry her. After all, he knows his fate. I think it was the Aelfinn who told him.... When Egeanin tells him it's death by slow torture to lay hands on the daughter of the Nine Moons, he discovers he is going to marry Tuon.

So the True Power is an evil version of the One Power, and only Ishamael and Moridin has been alowed to use it as they like.

Yes, and it's been mentioned as even more addictive than the one power.

maulkat

9th September 2004, 11:26 PM

Yes, I remember that being mentioned. He also has black specks floating accross his eyes. That is just freaky. Yuck! I know I would not want to have happen to me. I thought Mat took Tuan along, not because he is going to marry her, but to prevent her from calling an alarm on him.

mccoythelegend

10th September 2004, 09:34 AM

he was gonna leave her in the hayloft with her bodyguard/maid. Then didn't when Domon's missus recognised her.

maulkat

13th September 2004, 12:02 AM

I've been talking to my coworker again and he put this idea forward about the "True Source". I am pretty much quoting him, so here goes. "When Rand goes to the Rhuihiean-thingy he gets to see the memories of his ancestors. One of whom served the original Aes Sedai as a Jenn Aiel. That guy saw the hole being made in the Dark One's prison. It said that they were doing this to find a new source of the power, stronger than either half of the true source... ect... ect...This new power would allow men and women to channel from the same source. Now if this Morridin guy has to have permission to use it then it is controlled by something, and if it was suppost to come out of the Dark One's prison... it could very well be that they are channeling his energy directly."
What do think about that idea? It is alot better than the one I said. He is rereading the books again. He is reading them and seeing new things he didn't notice before. Like in the "Prophecy of the Dragon", Morriane is telling Rand a few of them and mentions, he will make the nine moons bow to him....or something like that. When I read through that, it didn't make any sence to me, but now it does. After having met the Daughter of the Nine Moons. I wonder what any of the other Prophesies will turn out like that. Have you noticed anything else similar?

mccoythelegend

13th September 2004, 08:59 AM

Erm, thats pretty much directly stated. Beidomon and Lanfear/Mierin drilled through the seal to find the True Source, which WAS the Dark One. When Mogheidian first sees Moridin she goes in to an analysis of Saa, and the True Power. I think Greandal or Demandred do too at sopme point. Comenting that Drawing power from the Dark One was dangerous due to its addictivity and the way that the DO can withdraw the TP at anytime.

DaunTed

13th September 2004, 01:09 PM

Dude, i like thar book, *flys around the room*

Morridini

13th September 2004, 01:56 PM

Which book are u refering to Deep_Thought?

maulkat

14th September 2004, 12:05 AM

The quote I gave lastnight was from a conversation I was having with my coworker. I did not get that from the books at all. Where does it state that the True Sorce is the DO? I read the books so fast, I prolly missed alot of stuff. I'll just have to go and read them again.

SilentGhost

15th September 2004, 12:26 AM

Hello, I'm the coworker Maulkat mentioned. I'm new to the boards, but I've been a fan of the series for a few years now. I still find it funny that I first discovered this series when I went digging through the Swanson Libraries "throw away" books. Anyways.

Did the book give any info about the True Source? I don't remember reading anything that mentioned it directly. The whole One Power, True Source, Saidin, and Saidar mess can get pretty tangled sometimes. I started re-reading the series again a couple months ago to refresh my memory, I haven't gotten quite that far yet and it's been almost a year since I finished the last one.

The strangest thing that I've noticed since starting over is whatever happened to Elyas? Perrin has mentioned him soooo many times, yet after all these books, no Elyas. Any ideas on where he's been hiding for so long?

maulkat

15th September 2004, 12:33 AM

He comes back in Book Nine. He is also in Book Ten. He is helping Perrin to track down, find and rescue Faile.

SilentGhost

15th September 2004, 12:38 AM

Oh ya, that's right. See what I mean, lol. Does it ever mention his connections as a Warder again? I don't think it ever said who his Aes Sedai had been.

Morridini

15th September 2004, 03:29 AM

Keep rereading. We learned something about his Aes Sedai in one of the last books.

Azrael

15th September 2004, 08:36 AM

Hello, I was in this convo looong ago, thought I might return. I've read books 1-10 though I quit reading the last bit of the 10th one about a year ago (I have a unfortune tendancy to do that...). Haven't read New Spring yet, not sure if I'm going to. I've been a little annoyed ever since I learned that his wife has been co-authoring with him for the past few books. I think they're great books and all but alright already! There's a reason %99.9999 percent of fiction series are not this long! If he can't finish it in three more books I'm going to boycott.

As far as the series goes though I know it's already been discussed but I keep returning to the fact of the man Rand met in the lost city when he was going to kill one of the chosen. Out of the blue, they cross beams and get a strange reaction. He helps and then disappears. Only logical conclusion I can draw is that it's either the High One, a unknown chosen one/dark one himself, or maybe a unknown element. Of course it could possibly be the ramblings of our good man Robert Jordan getting groggy and annoyed at his wife pooking him in the back yelling "Slow down! You're not putting enough detail in it!".

Oh, btw I have a 'orrible memory mates, so if I totally got characterization wrong don't ruff me up to much.

Artoch

16th September 2004, 02:59 PM

I'm a big fan of WOT i read all the books except the tenth one.

About who killed asmodean. They also had a nice theory about that on
www.tarvalon.net

About the true sorce. Sometimes RJ mentiones something about it. I head from another group i was on that the flaming eyes of Ishamael are an advanced Saa. (the black pecks floating in your eyes)

As far as the series goes though I know it's already been discussed but I keep returning to the fact of the man Rand met in the lost city when he was going to kill one of the chosen. Out of the blue, they cross beams and get a strange reaction. He helps and then disappears. Only logical conclusion I can draw is that it's either the High One, a unknown chosen one/dark one himself, or maybe a unknown element. Of course it could possibly be the ramblings of our good man Robert Jordan getting groggy and annoyed at his wife pooking him in the back yelling "Slow down! You're not putting enough detail in it!".

dunno in what book this is but i can't recall it. If it's in book 10 i haven't read it yet.

I agree on Luc being Lan's cousin (? i thought it was brother...maybe i have a bad memory 'bout that). Altho al those blood connected thingy's are really strange. They have so many contacts. It's explanable tho. Rhand is Ta'veren. So his life is decided by the WoT. The wheel of times weaves other lives into his and enstrangles it so you get a lot of blood connections. The Dragon Reborn must have a strong bloodline.
I think it goes like every time the Dragon is Reborn. The WoT just weaves other threads into his. Dunno just guessing

About Lanfear and Moiraine. It seems that Lanfear escaped. i also think the new forsaken woman is Lanfear but i'm not sure. Why didn't Moiraine get out? Well first of all. Min had a preminicion (spelling?) about Tom pulling a blue stone out of the fire (rescuing moiraine out of the world of the Ael Finn). Lanfear posseses the knowledge of 2000 years. She knows far more about all those other worlds than Moiraine does.

Morridini

16th September 2004, 10:41 PM

As far as the series goes though I know it's already been discussed but I keep returning to the fact of the man Rand met in the lost city when he was going to kill one of the chosen. Out of the blue, they cross beams and get a strange reaction. He helps and then disappears. Only logical conclusion I can draw is that it's either the High One, a unknown chosen one/dark one himself, or maybe a unknown element.

I think it is pretty obvious that that might be Moridin. He had been lurking around as the Watcher/the Wanderer for some time before the battle of Sammael and Rand. And the describtion matches Moridin as well.

maulkat

17th September 2004, 12:10 AM

Artoch, who is Tom? I do not recall any char by that name.

Morridini

17th September 2004, 03:31 AM

He means Thom, the old guy who is with Mat. Remember?

Artoch

17th September 2004, 11:19 AM

Thom Merilin (i've read the series in Dutch so the spelling of the names may vary).
He's the guy that was gonna give a show in Emmon's field and ran off with the gang and he saved mat and Rand from the myrdraal

maulkat

17th September 2004, 11:32 PM

Yeah, sorry. I must have lost too many brain cells. j/k How can he bring her back to life? He don't channel or anything. Besides death is final. Except for the Forsaken, of course.

Morridini

21st September 2004, 05:30 AM

Why do u think she is dead? I don't think so. She is just captured in the world behind the door (The Fin land or something like that). And I also think that in the next book Mat and Thom will rescue her through the tower of Ghendji (or however it was spelled).

Anvar

21st September 2004, 06:17 AM

Yes, that seems entirely reasonable.

so, within the next few books, Rand will go blind, Get a big wound, then the nine moons will kneel before him.(Seachan)

Its all going to be going good soon.

Also, will Mat ever live up to the things that are supposed to happen to him, or not?

Morridini

21st September 2004, 08:13 AM

Wasn't anyone supposed to loose a hand as well?

123man

21st September 2004, 09:21 AM

Maybe this was posted before or maybe it's common knowledge, if so, ignore.

The below link is for the WoT FAQ that has been compiled by people over many years. Lots of great info about the whereabouts of characters, theories, etc. I used to read over it a lot, back when I was still into WoT. :)

http://www.arkane-systems.net/faqs/WOTFAQ/

Morridini

21st September 2004, 10:06 AM

I've posted links to several of those theories, but i am not sure if I have done so after the forum was reset.

Artoch

21st September 2004, 04:15 PM

Yes indeed Mat and Tom will go in the tower of Genjei and into the world of the Ael'Finn and rescue the blue stone (Moiraine)

But the question is: how can they enter the tower? Slayer did, but he has unknown knowledge of the wolf's dream. Anyone has a theory?

Morridini

21st September 2004, 11:18 PM

Perhaps we have been mistaken, perhaps they are not going into the Tower of Genjei. Since the only way to enter Genjei was through the Wolf dream (probably Tel'aran'rhiod as well). There were two doors, right? So why not two towers? Could it happen that they will find another tower on their journy to...(by the way, where is Thom and Mat going?).

maulkat

22nd September 2004, 12:26 AM

I do no know where they are heading, but they are still with the travelling show. They are just packing up...at least as far as I am concerned. :) I am working on book ten, still. I figured with wolf dreams and Tel'aran'rhiod are the same. I could be wrong though. I have another question though. Since Shadar Logoth was destroyed at the end of nine, do you think, what's his name that stabbed Rand is dead? Fain, that's his name. I am so bad with names, sorry. Does Perrin actually throw his axe away? My coworker says he does, but I have not found that part yet.

Artoch

22nd September 2004, 02:38 PM

I don't thin Fain is dead cause He broke free from Mashadar and Shadar Logoth. I do think he has lost some power

Hanimous

24th September 2004, 02:47 PM

You know something Fain never dies for some queer reason, Fain seems be something worse Than the Great Lord or Mashadar since he was once once servant of both, I remember reading one of the wot books saying that he was worse, since hes a mix of both.

SilentGhost

25th September 2004, 01:35 AM

Fain has been kinda MIA for the last few books hasn't he. The last I remember is that he stabbed Rand and then just kinda ran off into the mist... Now that Shadar Logoth is gone will the wound Rand took from the blade recover?

Speaking of which, someone mentioned that Rand goes blind earlier. Does that really happen? I remember Perrin having a vision of Rand looking like he had somehow been struck blind, but how is that suppost to work out? I swear, if Rand gets any worse he'll have to go to Tarmon Gia'don in a wheelchair.

maulkat

25th September 2004, 08:48 PM

Silent, I do beleive one of the Aes Sedi mentioned that almost exact sentiment about Rand going there being carried or something like that. I also think Rand's wound is getting more painful, since Shadar Logoth was destroyed. I might beable to find the page and quote that for you, if you want to me to.

Blademastar

25th September 2004, 11:29 PM

hey all, "pants" just read through 6 pages lol, i've also read the books, whole series, and the latest prolouge, but its been so long i have forgotten the plot by the time the next book comes out:p i use to know what you are all talking about. Hes pulled it out to long i reckon, way to many sub plots between characters and little quests, gets confusing. I wonder how he will keep track of them all. Hope he finishes it soon, ill need to re read the series it seems to keep up. Book 10, i think it was, was totally boring for me, my favourtie is still book 1

Morridini

26th September 2004, 03:51 AM

If they hadn't reset the forum it would have been like 15 pages.

This is blatent spam, this adds nothing to the topic: warned

maulkat

27th September 2004, 01:23 AM

Oh, speaking of the other forum for a moment. Do you remember we talked about a bright light? Well, I think the light came from the two statues. One was on an island, I think part of the Sea Folk. The other was near a city and was being excavated. That light was when Rand and, I'll call her Nana, since I can't spell her name, they were clensing the male half of the Source. Do you think it really has been clensed for good? It seems to me, it has, but only the male channelers feel that way. The others do not. What you think?

Morridini

27th September 2004, 06:51 AM

Yeah, I thought it was pretty obvious that the light came from the statues. And if I remember correctly, the people living on the Island with one of the statues thought the light was the sign of something. I can't remember what it was a sign of. I'll look it up later.

maulkat

27th September 2004, 01:48 PM

I think she took it as a sign the end of times is coming. Who do you think captures Egwene at the end of ten?

mccoythelegend

1st October 2004, 09:24 AM

The sign was the end of the Age of illusions on Tremalking. Egwene was captured by Elaida's forces. She was betrayed probably by her own sitters at the peace talks, Delana or Nicola. Being captured by Elaida ties nicely in to her vision in her accepted test. And Gawyn will have to run very quickly (as prophecised by someone) to stop the headsmans axe from falling on her.

SilentGhost

1st October 2004, 11:48 PM

Min was the one who had the viewing about Gawyn when they fled the Tower together. Something about him saving her from the headsman or becoming the headsman. Either of which was possible.

Is it just me or does it seem like alot of people have visions and such. Min, Perrin, Egwene, the Wise Ones (sorta like Egwene, I know), Eladia, the terangreal in the tower and the doorframe, and of course the Prophecies of the Dragon. I guess seeing the future and all really isn't that special.

maulkat

1st October 2004, 11:58 PM

To me, the stuff from the doorways is different than visions and such. You go in there and ask questions and get answers in return. It is not the same thing as getting a vision or seeing into the future.
As for Egwene, she took that trip on the spur of the moment, somebody else was supposed to be there instead. How could her sitters or sisters in the peacetalks betray her? They had no knowlege she would be going.
Thats right McCoy. I just could not think of the wording for it.
To bring up a topic either talked about on here or the old one, I do not recall right now. Is Luc, Isam and Slayer the same person or entity?

Morridini

2nd October 2004, 02:48 AM

Yes, that's what it looks like now.
Luc and Isam got melted together into one being, Slayer.

maulkat

3rd October 2004, 11:19 PM

Were they all three seperate? I mean, Luc was a player, Slayer was a player. Who is Isam? I do not recall him at all.

SilentGhost

6th October 2004, 12:16 AM

This is the information given in book 2, chapter 7. I wont list it but here's the ghist of it. The Dark Prophecy has a verse "Luc came to the Mountians of Doom. Isam waited in the high passes. The hunt is now begun. The Shadow's hounds course, and kill. One did live and one did die, but both are. Ect."

Luc was Tigraine's brother, Rand's uncle. I can't find/remember why but he set off into the Blight. Isam is Lan's cousin. When the Trollocs destroyed Malkier Isam's mother fled and dissapeared with him. As Morridini said, they somehow became one person. The whole "one lived and one died but both are" thing shows that both are alive, yet seperate. My guess is that Isam died and Luc lived, yet Isam became a part of Luc through the world of dreams somehow.

How they were made Slayer is beyond me, but the "hunt is now begun" relates. Maybe Slayer controlls the Dark Hounds. He's a perfect opposite to Perrin, who leads the wolves against him.

maulkat

6th October 2004, 12:44 AM

I am still a little bit confused over this. Maybe if I reread them it will become clearer. If Slayer controlled the Dark Hounds, then he would be on the Dark Lord's side. It appeared to me though, Slayer was his own and answers to nobody....except maybe to Perrin. That has not happend yet though. A few more questions though. What is the Dark Prophecy? What hunt? The only hunt I can think of was for that horn. Which the White Tower has in posession. Do any of the Sisters there currently know they have it or that it has been blown? If they (Isam and Luc) were seperate, then they can't be together. Is it something like having split personalities? Is Slayer just another personality of his? That is about all I can think of for the moment. I have only read the books once through, but I will have to read them again.

SilentGhost

6th October 2004, 05:23 PM

The Dark Prophecies are the Prophecies of the Dragon, except that the Dark Prophecies are known only to those who follow the Shadow. Kinda like the Aiel Prophecies for He Who Comes With the Dawn. The same, yet diffirent.

The hunt I mentioned was the Wild Hunt, a tale that says the Dark One rides into the night with black dogs (Darkhounds) to hunt souls. I'm of the opinion that the legend actually refers to Slayer. After all, he is in the dream world killing wolf souls. Also, it wouldn't be the first time someone was thought to be the Dark One. (Ishamael)

I'd say that Slayer is a title, not a third personality, just like how the Forsaken are called Chosen. Although, Slayer hasn't shown any kind of "powers" yet, just that he can enter the world of dreams and the strange tower somehow.

Isam and Luc together make up Slayer, that is how it seems. How this happened is beyond me. From the Dark Prophecies it sounds too much of a coincidence how both Luc and Isam were at the Mountians of Doom. The phrase "but both are" sounds very significant. How can one be alive and one be dead, but both of them exist? Birgitte is my example for this. She existed in the world of dreams but was dead. Isam, who looks like Lan, is only seen in the world of dreams. Luc, who looks/sounds nothing like Isam, exists in the waking world. However, they both have the same scent (according to Perrin) and both are Slayer. My conclusion: Isam and Luc were somehow fused as one at Shayol Ghul. Luc is the waking half and Isam is the dreaming half. Both existing, yet one is dead.

maulkat

7th October 2004, 10:44 PM

Interesting that last paragraph. I never thought of it that way. I now understand the differences between the Dark Prophecy and those of the Dragon. When I get finished reading the books I am on now, I will go back to Wheel of Time and relook over some of these areas. Back to one of the questions I asked though. Do you think any of the Sisters currently in the White Tower have knowlege they posess the Horn or that it has already been blown? I personally do not think they know they have it.

Volatile

8th October 2004, 07:49 AM

That's funny. I read on one of the WoT websites a quote from RJ himself saying that the books would alternate.

i.e. he'll release Book 11 - Knife of Dreams in '05 , 2nd prequel in '06, Book 12 in '07 and then the final prequel in '08

I may be wrong clearly but that was my understanding. Downer really because it means another 4 years until I can relax and forget all about WoT! :eek13:

whirlwind

8th October 2004, 10:35 AM

I dont really understand all this! What are all these books about?

Morridini

8th October 2004, 11:21 AM

"Read and find out" Robert Jordan's most used answer to questions from fans.

It's a big fantasy series, and like all fantasy series it reminds a bit of LOTR. The Wheel of Time is one of the biggest (perhaps THE biggest) fantasy series out there. It is really worth reading. It is about some people from a litle town who suddenly have to go out on an adventure to save the world. That's how the series start, but there's a lot more to it then that. I can perhaps tell u more about this later, when I have the time, It's a lot to tell.

maulkat

10th October 2004, 10:58 PM

Very much more to tell than just that. To really get the picture though, you should just read the books. That is just how to story starts. There are ten books out so far and supposedly two more to come. If Robert Jordan is lucky, if he is not lucky....then there will be five more. Oh, is it true his wife helped him write some of them?

Robertus

12th October 2004, 01:39 PM

depends on how you see it, if we are lcky it will only last another 2-3 books, but knowing RJ and his writing he'll probably need another 5 books, seeing he first thought it would be lik 5 books total.

And I thought he has written then all by himself, his wife has more of a love for other kinds of books

Morridini

12th October 2004, 03:00 PM

When RJ said that he had got help from his wife he didn't mean actualy help with writing the books. It's more like moral support, she has helped him through love etc. And she has also helped him with the female characters. That's all I know she's done.

maulkat

13th October 2004, 12:18 AM

Ok, that makes much more sense to me. Which book or books do you all like the best? I do not think I really have a favorite. I enjoyed all of them, though a few went really "slow". If that is a good term to use.

Robertus

13th October 2004, 05:44 AM

a few books are mostly written around the side charters I think, and that tends to slow those books terribly

Morridini

13th October 2004, 08:12 AM

Selecting one book is hard, perhaps The Eye of the World, The Great Hunt or The Dragon reborn.

But if I was supposed to select one favorite chapter it would be much easier. I think the prologue in book one is the best chapter in all the series, try reading it again after u have read the entire series, it makes so much more sense then.

SilentGhost

13th October 2004, 11:43 PM

The prolouge was a good chapter, but it made the transition into the main story a bit difficult for some of the people I've talked with. I wonder if RJ will add anything else about Lews Therin's life before he went mad.

I'd say that the book starts to drag on once Rand has control of Cairhein. It doesn't become completely dull, just all the talk and talk and talk. Rand manipulating this lord and that lady and the Aes Sedai conspiring constantly, it can get old. The story stays interesting overall, just have to slog through all the chatter, lol. ^_^

maulkat

14th October 2004, 12:10 AM

I thought the first five books were really good. Six went slow, seven was good.....it seems every other was good. I see what you mean by book ten going slow, even thought it was mostly about Perrin. He just sat around too much. Nine was also kinda slow, but I really liked the ending. That was really good. I can hardly wait until next year for the next one.

Wintermute

14th October 2004, 11:57 AM

I've only almost finished the second one, The Great Hunt, but they're great books, and I plan on continuing through the series.

Question: If Rand doesn't want to use saidin and avoid going mad, couldn't he just stay in the Ogier grove, where you can't touch the One Power?
Probably. I'm a genius.

v.v

Morridini

14th October 2004, 12:40 PM

That would work. And many of the male Aes Sedai from the Age of Legends did try to do just that. But they couldn't stand the emptiness they felt there for very long. So no one managed to be there for very long, so they all left the Grroves sooner or later and went mad because of the taint. And as we see through the books Rand wouldn't manage the emptiness either.

maulkat

17th October 2004, 12:06 AM

Is being on a Stedding similar to being Stilled or Gentled? If that is a case neither Aes Sedai or the men who can channel could stay on one for long. The emptiness would drive there insane. They can not survive long being seperated from the Source.

Morridini

17th October 2004, 05:08 AM

No there is one big difference in being Stilled/Gentled and being in an Ogier Groove. When in an Ogier Groove u can not feel the Source at all, it is as if it doesn't exist.
While when u are Stilled/Gentled u can still feel the Source but not reach it.

maulkat

18th October 2004, 11:51 PM

Ah, ok. Thank you for telling me the difference. People who can Channel though have said they feel empty while on a Stedding. So that would make sense. How did the Steddings come about? I know just a little about them, but not much. Or rather how did the "pockets" come about? I do not know which is the better way to ask the question.

omega

19th October 2004, 04:33 AM

Wintermute

19th October 2004, 01:13 PM

...Oh yeah. I forgot about that. :slant: Both good points. He can't run forever.

I've just finished The Great Hunt...the end it pretty...finale. I don't know how the hell he managed to write...7 more books, I believe.

Also, Lan = God.

v.v

Morridini

19th October 2004, 01:26 PM

Um, what did u mean by Lan=God???

Pengamos

19th October 2004, 01:55 PM

Probably that he just thinks he's cool. Remember he just finish the The Great Hunt so he has a ways to go and much more cool people to meet along the way. Warders as a whole are pretty cool though except that they are mentally connected to the Aes Sedai and have a tendency to commit suicide by trying to get revenge for her death or they just give up on life.

HookerBodyShots

19th October 2004, 05:46 PM

I feel so frustrated by this thread because so many people have not read all 10 of the books out so far yet.

Lan is a god because absolutely no person can beat him at swordsmanship. Later on, he makes a few other warders audibly gasp (yeah, even though they are stone faces too) at how quickly and perfectly he can move his blade.

If he doesn't learn how to use saidin how's he going to face Shaitan at Tarmon Gai'don?

Not to mention that using Saidin is the greatest pleasure known to men... (And Saidar is the greatest pleasure known to women.) It just so happens that Saidin is tainted.

At least until book 9.

SilentGhost

19th October 2004, 11:23 PM

Here's something for the conversation about channelling and... well not channeling.

In chapter six of book six (Lord of Chaos, Threads of the Shadow) Sammael, Graendal, and Semirhage keep bringing up a point about something called "binding". It sounds like an alternative to being stilled/gentled, Sammael applied it to prisoners and for Semirhage it was sorta punishment for her hurting people after saving their lives. She didn't stick around to be punished.

Graendal kept mentioning her "pets" who came from beyond the Waste. They were supposedly tatooed from birth and were rulers for a time. All rulers had to be the offspring of a woman who could channel. Supposedly these people believe "everything" is as the Wheel weaves, so the tatooing could be an act of channeling meant to bind the power in some way.

That chapter wasnt very informative about it. Has anyone seen anything about that bit elsewhere? It might be brought up in the next few books.

maulkat

20th October 2004, 12:21 AM

I breezed through the books pretty quickly when I read them, but I think that is the only time those "toys" are mentioned. She moves on to other "toys".

Snakebite

24th October 2004, 04:35 PM

i have never heard of the wheel of time books.

One warning will be submitted for repeated spam throughout the forum, you have not expressed an opinion, just stated a one line fact, this is not acceptable posting! ~` Whirlwind

Hershel

25th October 2004, 10:02 PM

WOT absorbed me for some time, and ive reread most of them and they are truly original. I haven't picked one up in a couple years but ive heard about 10,000 theories atleast , and so far i think it's kind of an unfair advantage to RJ. He's created over a hundred patterns and systems just to break them, and hes never flat out lied about any of them.(claims hes loial but id calssify as an aes sedai any day.) So I expect to be truly suprised.

Zahrael

1st November 2004, 09:11 AM

I am reading the Wheel of Time book series now, and I am slightly irritated by how they constantly jump back and forth between characters. I like the way JRR tolkien did it, one book for one group, and what not. But other than that, this book series, I think, is above and beyond JRR Tolkiens works....

Morridini

1st November 2004, 09:20 AM

I am a big WOT fan but I still think Tolkien's books are better written.

As for the jumping between characters I don't mind it at all. That's how most books are written.

Zahrael

1st November 2004, 09:23 AM

I thought the WoT books were better written...More detail, explained better. LoTR is a master piece, don't get me wrong, it's just that it is way easier to read WoT than LoTR, even discounting the Old English aspect of LoTR, which i had no problem with.

Hershel

2nd November 2004, 06:03 PM

WOT has a larger scope, the characters are more dynamic, and it's an easier read....... it ends there. LOTR is a Masterpiece so well written, so well documented.... it breathes classic in every way.

The major diff... Jordan will be remembered as one the greatest FANTASY writers of OUR time.

Tolkien will be remembered as one the greatest writers that ever lived.

Zahrael

2nd November 2004, 06:07 PM

Eh...I dont know about that dude........Tolkien is hailed for his creativity......Jordan has proven himself just as creative, and more able to bring that creativty to light. Tolkien was hard to read, Even if you understood Old English. Robert Jordan is more detailed, clearer in his explainations, and describes a world with unique creatures, Whereas for the most part, Tolkien just reused old ideas (Orcs, Trolls)....

Hershel

2nd November 2004, 06:41 PM

Yeah you can say that, but you don't hear ppl on wal-street anxiously awaiting, Book 11 knife of dreams. But if you asked all of them who Tolkien is... more than half the people there would recognize it. There are movies, games, conventions with over half a million people at them all so some 30 year-old guys can dress up like aragorn and gandalf. The creators of D&D once claimed that there wouldn't even be a D&D if it were'nt for tolkien.
Yeah, his ideas are sort of old and traditional... but you can see his inspiration everywhere in modern fantasy. How many fantasy series have you read lately that don't have a big map at the front of their book presenting their "new and mystic land". (ex. Randland,midkemia etc.) How many fantasy series now days don't have 3 or 4 newly "invented" languages. I think you see were im goin with this.

Book Intro
Wizard/ Aes Sedai goes to a small village and take 4/3 innocent lads off on a wonderful quest because they are destined for great and terrible fates.

Enemy - "the dark one"/sauron does not entirely exist in the real world but if blah blah blah happens they can and will return

Those are some lovely lil comparisons aren't they.

No, the details aren't all the same, but his style is emulated all the time.

Morridini

2nd November 2004, 10:57 PM

Hmm, it has now been, what, 50/60 years since LOTR was first published, and it's still as popular now as it was back then. Do u think that WOT will be as popular in 50-60 years from now? I don't think so. Even as WOT is great it lacks something which LOTR have, something which will make it live forever.

maulkat

2nd November 2004, 11:59 PM

I liked both book series. For me, they are both easy to read. It took me longer to read WoT, but there are alot more of them than LOTR. I also see similarities between the two series. Even some of the names are almost the same. I can not think of any at the moment, though.
It has not quite been 50 years sine LOTR came out. What it's been about 15 years since WOT came out....right? It still seems to be as popular as when it first came out. At least to me. Alot of people have heard about WOT, but more people have heard about LOTR, it has also been out that much longer. If you can get past the first few books and actually follow the story. It is a very good series. Though I think Tolkien did a better job at writing than RJ did. RJ has alot more stuff going on in his books than Tolkien did.

Morridini

3rd November 2004, 06:47 AM

I just looked it up.
LOTR was first published in 1954, so it's exactly 50 years since it came out.

Zahrael

3rd November 2004, 07:10 AM

The question isnt rather or not the whell of time series will be as popular in 50 years lotr series is now, but rather, will it leave the same impact on society as a whole. To me, the wheel of time is a great adventure, just like lord of the rings was, but with two differences: It's still going, and it's longer than Lord of the rings was. It doesnt quite have that undefinably 'perfectly written' quality that the Sword of truth series had, but it was close... WoT and SoT (Sword of truth) Had a sense of sticking to me, as in if you started to read it, you got stuck, and couldnt put the book down until you were done. Lord of the rings, I put it down with the intention of doing the dishes, and didnt pick it back of for two months......so i dont think it possessed that quality at least....:/

Hershel

3rd November 2004, 08:20 PM

A couple years ago, I would have probably defended Jordan and WOT with the same zealous passion as you do... but idk it's just sort of worn out for me now.
I wish i never read the series a while back, and instead read it about 8-10years from now and have the entire series to look at. You have to reread too much to have an active time frame whenever a new book comes out.(12)Who knows? Maybe he'll establish himself as the greatest fantasy of our time when his conluding book comes out.

I devoured crossroads of twilight, i finished it in like a day or 2, but i was very dissapointed at the end. I understand leaving your readers wanting more but he built up the end like it was going to be the greatest climax of the series, only to keep us waiting. Not to mention all it's hype at dragoncon, and the fansites. He says Knife of Dreams will be much more eventfull.... i hope so, because i love the series and i hope it doesn't fizzle out.

Zahrael

3rd November 2004, 08:28 PM

I dont think it would be possible for it to fizzle out.....from looking at the books of it that i have read anyways.....I am only up to the 5th one i think.....How many books are there gonna be?

Morridini

3rd November 2004, 10:07 PM

As stated before, 12 main books and 3 prequels.

maulkat

3rd November 2004, 11:34 PM

On the old board you put a link in here to a site where Jordan was interviewed. He said there would be 12 books if he was luck or 15 if he wasn't. I don't have the link anymore or I would put it in here. Maybe you can find it again and stick it in here.

Anvar

4th November 2004, 01:37 AM

So Is there any release date for book 11 in UK?

Meh, I was re reading the book, and I was wondering, who is that guy who helps Rand beat Samuel, Is it Lews Therin?

Morridini

4th November 2004, 06:00 AM

How could it be Lews Therin? If u have reached book 7 u should know that Lews Therin died 3000 years ago, and has been reborn as Rand al'Thor.
No, the person who helped Rand is the Watcher/Wanderer who have been lurking around in the background for some time. Who again is Moridin, Nae'blis, (most likely Ishamael reborn).

What link are u talking about Mualkat? I can't remember it.

maulkat

4th November 2004, 11:36 PM

Sorry, I can not help you with the link. I don't think I put it in my fave's. I'll check though and if I have it, I'll post it. Not on my list. I have a couple of other places I can look though. I'll let you know if I find it.
It talked about the most recent book.....New Spring? I have not read it yet. It also talked about a few of the chars, like Lan and Nanaeve (sp?). It had a few links and then recorded video interview from Jordan. Where he said he plans to have 12 books if he's lucky or 15 books, if he isn't in WOT and three prequels. I really like it and found it interesting.

Morridini

4th November 2004, 11:40 PM

Might it be at www.tor.com/jordan?

maulkat

6th November 2004, 10:40 PM

That is not the link I was thinking of, but it is an interesting site. :) Though the best site you ever put up on here was the one about Asmodean. (spelling)

Morridini

7th November 2004, 04:16 AM

Well, I do remember the site about Asmodean: http://linuxmafia.com/jordan/1_dark/1.1_forsaken1/1.1.6_asmo.html

Volatile

8th November 2004, 08:07 AM

Apparently release date for Book 11 - Knife of Dreams - is 6 October 2005 in the UK. The wait has already been agonizing. It's best, I think, to try and forget that the Wheel of Time ever existed. Book 12 scheduled for 2007! Aaaaargh!

Prequels also to be released in 06 and 08

maulkat

10th November 2004, 12:33 AM

At least he is not going to write the prequels first and then ge back to the main story. In the interview Morridinni posted, the one I can not find, he said he was going to write the prequels first. I'll just have to reread part of the last book and then I'll remember the other stuff that happend.

Morridini

10th November 2004, 03:19 AM

Guess what. I think I found it.
Was it this one: http://a1110.g.akamai.net/7/1110/5507/v001/bookstream.download.akamai.com/5507/bw/bs/0765306298/default.htm??

And as I searched for the interview I also found this chat with Jordan: http://cgi1.usatoday.com/mchat/20040106007/tscript.htm

maulkat

11th November 2004, 12:21 AM

YAYAYAAAAAYYYYYY!!!!!!! You found the link I was talking about.
http://a1110.g.akamai.net/7/1110/5507/v003/bookstream.download.akamai.com/5507/bw/bs/0765306298/b1/default_wm.htm.
Well, I am glad it has been found finially. It is ome of the best you put on here.

Wintermute

18th November 2004, 11:59 AM

Zahrael

18th November 2004, 12:01 PM

'The beginning of time' is a loose word for 'when they bound him' i think....he was bound, then Aes Sedai tampering freed him, then they rebound him........i think

Morridini

18th November 2004, 12:21 PM

Oh Jesus. Rhuarc is so badass.
Lan? Who is this "Lan"?
Rhuarc, baby, Rhuarc.

I have a question: they (the characters) are constantly saying that the Dark One and the Forsaken were bound in Shayol Ghul at the moment of Creation by the Creator...BUT, didn't he, like, start wars and chaos and disorder, and shit? If he was bound "at the moment of Creation", that implies the beginning of time, no?

And if that's true, wtf is the dealio with the Forsaken? They were normal Aes Sedai before they turned to the Shadow, but if they, too, were bound at the beginning of time/moment of Creation, then they wouldn't have had time to be normal Aes Sedai.
:/

v.v

Ok, its actually two times he has been sealed up. First by the creator at the moment of creation, and then again in the Age of legends by the male Aes Sedai, this time with the thirteen Forsaken.

It started with the Aes Sedai of the Age of Legend. The Dark One had been sealed away forever and the world didn't know of monsters nor crimes. Until one they some Aes Sedai senses a strange new power, which could be sensed by both male and female. They decided to try to get to the power by "drilling" through a barrier between them and the power. The power they felt was actually the Dark One and the barrier was the Bore. When they drilled a hole through the Bore they released the Dark One. At first the hole was small and the Dark One couldn't escape, but as time went by the hole grew bigger and death and crime spread across the world.

After several years had a full war begun, and hundreds of Aes Sedai had joined the Dark One, including the 13 Forsaken. The remaining good Aes Sedai decided to try a suicidal mission to seal the Bore. But out of stubbornness the female Aes Sedai refused to go along, so only the 113 (I think) strongest male Aes Sedai went to seal the Bore. They succeeded in sealing the Bore, but not before the Dark One had released the taint on saidin. Driving all male Aes Sedai nuts.

So there u can see that he was sealed twice, once by the Creator and then again by the male Aes Sedai. And the 13 Forsake happened to be at Shayol Ghul at the time of the sealing and thus was trapped inside with the Dark one. Except for one. Ishamael was only partly bound away. First he was either on his way in or out at the time of the sealing and was thus caught in between. So it took 40 years before he couldn't wander the world. And after some years he was free again for 40 years. And when Ishamael was free he caused trouble for the world. The Trollock war, the death of Artur Hawkwing and other things.

Robert Jordan has made a little short story only for the internet and I shall try finding it.

EDIT:
I happened to have it saved on my comp, so I just uploaded it here:

The Strike at Shayol Ghul (http://s7.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=046BD3386AF4458E079FCAF46CBEDA31) by Robert Jordan.

Wintermute

18th November 2004, 04:30 PM

Okay, nice. That explains things - despite your awful spelling. rofl.

I'm printing that story now. Thanks a lot for it. :)

Also, when male Aes Sedai were normal and gg, what did the Red Ajah do? Their existence is to hunt down and pwn men who can channel before they fuck up the world, so when they weren't a danger, what'd they do? :confused:

v.v

Morridini

18th November 2004, 10:15 PM

Hmm. I have to look that up. I'll get back to it later.

maulkat

18th November 2004, 11:40 PM

I would have thought they hunted down Aes Sedai gone bad before they started hunting for men that could channel. The other theroy I have is, they were not made an Ajah until after the taint was released.

Zahrael

19th November 2004, 02:32 AM

I wonder if The red ajah wasnt blue before...That would explain their zeal about hunting down men, as well as the rivalry between red and blue....Maybe they were originally blue, but branched into their own ajah? Baseless speculation of course....Just and interesting thought...

Morridini

19th November 2004, 03:13 AM

I think perhaps I read that they didn't have Ajahs at the Age of Legends. Since they didn't have the need for all the current Ajahs, like the red Ajah which hunts male Aes Sedai, and the green ajah which prepares for Tarmon Gaidon. I don't remember what the other Ajahs stood for. I'll look it up once I get home from school.

Zahrael

19th November 2004, 03:20 AM

White is piliosophy (sp?), yellow is healing(right?) Black is (duh), blue is devoted to a cause (Any cause i would guess), green is Tarmon Gaidon, Red is hunting down Male Channelers......I think thats correct...did i miss any?

Wintermute

19th November 2004, 08:28 AM

Yes, grey. :/

I wonder if The red ajah wasnt blue before...That would explain their zeal about hunting down men, as well as the rivalry between red and blue....Maybe they were originally blue, but branched into their own ajah? Baseless speculation of course....Just and interesting thought...
Ja, that makes the most sense. And it would explain their rivalry.

v.v

Zahrael

19th November 2004, 09:08 AM

There is a grey ajah?

whirlwind

19th November 2004, 09:12 AM

Moderator note: THis thread is turning into spam and chat, please use pm and im's for this, and leave the good stuff for in here, or i may be forced to close the thread.

Morridini

19th November 2004, 09:32 AM

Why are u saying this now Whirlwind?
The last pages have been on topic and good, but we might have gone a bit off topic waay back. So it's a little late saying this now.

And as for the Red Ajah's role in the age of Legends. I just lloked it up in my copy of The World of Robert jordan's the Wheel of Time, and it says that the Ajahs existed in the Age of Legends but it was nothing like the ones which are today. About 50-100 after the breaking the new Ajahs were made.

I shall be the judge of that

Zahrael

19th November 2004, 09:54 AM

Mor, you cannot really expect to get off with that can you? Now that you said that, you have to explain what they were like back then. :tongue:

Morridini

19th November 2004, 10:21 AM

No one knows. The age of Legends is shrouded in darkness. A lot of information has been lost during the three thousand years and now (or that's at least what RJ is saying, he probably hasn't made up his mind yet).

Zahrael

19th November 2004, 10:26 AM

oooooo.......Leaves a nice bit of area open to Fanfiction. Makes my mind tick.......anyways, I am only up to about the 5th book......I like this series alot though, about as much as i like The Sword of Truth series........there have been insults slung around about the authors stealing each others work........Irritates me, they are both great authors......

maulkat

30th November 2004, 12:05 AM

I have never read the Sword of Truth series. What is that one like? I might have to look it up next year. Hopefully my library will have it. Who wrote it?

Zahrael

30th November 2004, 12:17 AM

oh god dude. That series is the single greatest fantasy book series i have ever read. It won't suprise me if you guys scream blashpemey and throw holy water on me, considering i am talking about another book series in this thread, but i stick to it. The Sword of Truth series defines the Fantasy genre. It is written by Terry Goodkind. The characters are developed to the point of them being as real as a fictional character can be, and when you read that series, It is almost like you are on the quest with them, if you know what i mean. Once you start reading, you can't just put the book down. There have been times i thought to myself, I will go to sleep after the next paragraph, then 8 hours later, the sun is up, and i am still reading. Thats how good this series is. Best part about it is it starts out assuming you are ignorant of the fantasy setting/world, so he explains everything to you slowly, clearly, so that there is none of that 'Grasping for handholds' like their is in other fantasy bookseries. There are many plot twists, and the way magic works in that setting is also innovative, just like in the Wheel of Time series. One thing i like about the Sword of Truth series is how active magic is in everyday life. It is always there, and in certain cases, is even alive and breathing. It really is a great bookseries. If you have the time, be sure to check it out. I, myself am close to killing someone due to the fact that Chainfire isn't out yet (The latest book in the series) But anyways, It's The Sword of Truth series by Terry Goodkind, the first book is 'Wizard's First Rule'

PS. I hope this isn't considered Spam, And if it is, let me know, and I will figure out something on-topic to put in here.

maulkat

6th December 2004, 12:47 AM

I do not really want to start another book series if it is not all written. I am currently waiting for three series to have the next book come out. Wheel of Time is one, Crown of Stars is another. Both fantasy in genre. The other is a mystery and has no place in this thread. Let me know when the series is done and then I'll look into it. How many books are out in it?

TrollSlayer

21st December 2004, 08:37 PM

umm, with Wheel of Time, is there a specefic order in which the books should be read? I was looking at them today at the store, but wasn't sure about if the order mattered or not.

maulkat

21st December 2004, 11:31 PM

I read them in order and I would suggest they be read in order. You can skip maybe the first three and still beable to get into the story. After book four though they follow a story and if you have not read the books before in order, you might be lost as to what is going on. When I read them, I could not put them down.

Morridini

22nd December 2004, 03:49 AM

umm, with Wheel of Time, is there a specefic order in which the books should be read? I was looking at them today at the store, but wasn't sure about if the order mattered or not.

Yes there is a definitive order, except that there has come out a book which is a prequel to the other books and that one u can read either before or after u read the main books. I don't think it spoils much. In case u are unsure how the order goes then this is the order:

Book 1: The Eye of the World
Book 2: The Great Hunt
Book 3: The Dragon Reborn
Book 4: The Shadow Rising
Book 5: The Fires of Heaven
Book 6: Lord of Chaos
Book 7: A Crown of Swords
Book 8: The Path of Daggers
Book 9: Winter's Heart
Book 10: Crossroads of Twilight
Book 11: Knife of Dreams (DUE FOR 2005)

The prequel: The New Spring: The Novel (this one can be read before or after u read the main books.)

TrollSlayer

22nd December 2004, 02:38 PM

allright, thanks...i saw the list of the order on the back of one of the books, but wasn't sure about whether order mattered, so i didn't buy any of them...now I'll know what to look for when i go back...i'm thinking of giving it a try....surely can't hurt anything.

Wintermute

30th December 2004, 11:23 AM

Skipping the first few books would be stupid as hell. The latest you could start and still have some idea of what is going on is The Dragon Reborn.

I'm constantly confused by the different Ajah's, so I'd greatly appreciate if someone could post an in-depth explanation of each Ajah. :)

Also, are there any complete maps of the entire WoT world? The one at the start of each book is small, hard to read, and crappy.
thx.

v.v

Morridini

30th December 2004, 02:47 PM

Also, are there any complete maps of the entire WoT world? The one at the start of each book is small, hard to read, and crappy.
thx

Do u want a big map of of the map in the books? Or a map of the whole world? A bigger map of the Randland is easy to find by searching the web. But I don't think a map of the entire world is that easy to find. But I suggest buying the book "The World of Robert Jordan's The Wheel of Time", it is great and has a world map in it. It might also contain some info about the Ahjas, I haven't read it in a while so i don't remember what it said about the Ahjas.

lunchmoney

30th December 2004, 05:01 PM

i read i think the first nine of these books, and some of them were really good, but some of the were really boring, and after awhile they got really repetitve and sexist against guys, so i got bored with them. its a pretty average plot of a story but i think he is draying this series out way too long.

Morridini

31st December 2004, 07:25 AM

If u have read the first nine books then I suggest u should read teh next ones as well, as it is only going to be 12 books.

maulkat

3rd January 2005, 01:23 PM

I do not have the book mentioned by Morridinni. At the end of the books is a Glossary. I will quote from Book Six, Lord of Chaos about the Ajahs.
"Ajah-Societies among the Aes Sedai, seven is number and designated by colors: Blue, Red, White, Green, Brown, Yellow and Grey. All Aes Sedai except the Amyrlin Seat belong to one. Each follows a specific philosophy of the use of the one One Power and the purposes of the Aes Sedai. The Red Ajah bends its energies to finding men who can channel, and to gentling them. The Brown forsakes the mundane world and dedicates itself to seeking knowlege, while the White , largely eschewing both the world and the value of worldly knowlege , devotes itself to questions of philosophy and truth. The Green Ajah (called the Battle Ajah during the Trollic Wars) holds itself ready for Tarmon Gai'don, the Yellow concentrates on the studies of healing, and Blue sisters involve themselves with causes and justice. The Grey are mediators, seeking harmony and concensus. A Black Ajah, dedicated to serving the Dark One, is officially and vehemently denied.
This is all the information that is in this book. I am sure there more outhere though. I hope this is what you wanted and helps to answer your question a little.

Snowe

5th January 2005, 06:49 PM

I've noticed that a lot of things regarding channeling have been questioned and have been either answered or not. Now, the answers and additions I can provide are what is the commonly accepted beliefs about WoT as far as I know, based on the various reference sites and the books themselves.

Firstly, the Ajahs and their purposes.
Green: Dedicated to preparing for Tarmon Gaidon, specializing in the art of combat channeling. Often called the Battle Ajah.
Yellow: Dedicated to the study and practice of healing. While most Aes Sedai have the ability to heal to some extent, the most talented of healers generally go to the Yellows.
Brown: Dedicated to the search and study of knowledge. Most Browns prefer a good book to idle chatter.
Blue: Dedicated to a single cause, that cause varying from Sedai to Sedai. Once a cause is found, Blues tend to see it through to the end regardless of the outcome, only finding a new cause after their original one no longer exists.
Red: Dedicated to hunting and gentling male channelers. Because of the significant roll male channelers had in sealing the Dark One, Saidin, the male half of the One Power was tainted by the backlash of that action. In turn, the initial shock of the taint drove many of the male channelers insane, causing the breaking of the world. Due to this, the Red Ajah tracks male channelers down, gentling them to avoid another breaking.
Grey: Dedicated to the art of mediation and negotiation. Grey Sisters are often found at the side of the rulers of nations, advising those with power on various matters.
White: Dedicated to the study of logic. Whites are often seen as 'cold', mostly due to their focus on questions, truth, and the logic behind things.
Black: While not an officially recognized Ajah, the Blacks exist solely among the followers of the Dark One. They come from no particular Ajah, each drawn to the service of the Shadow for their own reasons. Open recognition of this Ajah is frowned upon, speaking of them in all but utter secrecy nearly non-existant.

Theory on the feud between the Reds and Blues.
If one were to pay attention to the past history of the White Tower, specifically that involving past Amyrlin Seats, the feud between these two Ajahs makes sense. I believe that the tension between these two Ajahs has its origins in the past. Of all the Ajahs who have had Amyrlins raised from their faction, the Reds have the unpleasant distinction of being the Ajah from which the most displaced Amyrlin Seats have been raised. If I remember correctly, following those displacements, the new Amyrlin Seat came from the Blues. This created tension between the two, harboring ill feelings on both sides.

I also believe that in the early pages of this thread there was a request for clarification between Saidin, Saidar, the True Source, and the One Power.

Saidin: The male half of the source. Tainted by the backlash of the Dark One when Lews Therin and his companions sealed Shai'tan in his prison.
Saidar: The female half of the source.
One Power: The one power is a term that is used when speaking of both Saidin and Saidar together. Both the male and female halves make a whole, thus the one power.
True Source: A term used by the followers of Shai'tan in reference to a power that is more addicting than either Saidin or Saidar, the use of the True Source being undetectable by any save those who can use it. Some believe it is a power drawn direction from the Dark One himself. This is possible.

If anyone has questions about channeling, particularly the mechanics behind different weaves, feel free to ask. This is my area of expertise in regards to the series. Curious about where I learned my stuff? PM me.

maulkat

6th January 2005, 11:36 PM

That is very interesting. Though why, when it causes pain and such, do men like to channel? I still have not figured that one out.

Morridini

7th January 2005, 04:48 AM

That is very interesting. Though why, when it causes pain and such, do men like to channel? I still have not figured that one out.

The answer is simple, u have misunderstood.
Channeling doesn't cause pain, it's a pleasure and after they have started, it would be like stop breathing. They feel alive when channeling.

maulkat

8th January 2005, 12:20 AM

Snowe

8th January 2005, 12:30 AM

I thought Rand said something about it feeling like he was fighting a river trying to pull him under. He felt the taint of it causing him pain. It did fill him with "life" though, but he had to fight to let go and not have it take over him. It has been a few months since I read the books, but I thought he said something like that. I might be wrong though.

This is fairly simple to answer. To channel the One Power is highly addictive. It is a constant, yet sweet, struggle for the channeler. To draw to much of the power is death, yet that is exactly what a channeler is tempted to do because of the sweetness.

When Rand said that it feels as if he was fighting a river trying to pull him under, that was the call of the power tempting him to draw more in. Think of the taint as a thick layer of oil on top of the water. Beneath the filth, the water is still clean. Saidin is like that, the taint acting like the oil, the source being the water. To channel is to be alive. Those who can channel cannot just decide not to channel anymore unless they are shielded or cut off from the source, as it is like losing that life.

maulkat

9th January 2005, 01:00 AM

Thank you for that. I understand it a bit better now. Since the taint is gone, he should not have the feeling of oil over the water. In Book Ten it really did not discuss that though, at least not that I noticed. Do you think it will remain clean or eventually be tainted again?

Morridini

9th January 2005, 02:24 AM

I think Saidin will continue to be untainted, but I think perhaps the One Power is supposed to be destroyed by the end of the Third Age. U may notice that there is some problems with Saidin/Saidar in the latest book. And since the books is a part of our timeline, and we have no One Power in our world, then it should disappear before they reach our time. Or at least something should happen so that no humans can sense the One Power.
And u might also notice this answer a fan got from RJ:

Question:
"Are there any Ages where channeling does not exist?"

Robert Jordan Answers:
"Yes, as I have set things up, there are Ages when no one has any idea of how to channel or even that the One Power exists. Our own, for one. (The Wheel of Time turns.)"

maulkat

9th January 2005, 11:28 PM

I did not think Wheel of Time took place on our world at all. I mean, none of the names are the same. If he was making it on Earth, he should have used Earth names. Also if the books do take place here, then will be another breaking of the world. None of the lands are the same as they are in books.

Morridini

10th January 2005, 07:45 AM

Hehehe, thats just because u haven't looked closely enough. There are a lot of things from our world mentioned there. The moon landing, Moscow and also a satellite station I think have been mentioned. Let me see if I can find some quotes.

Ok, I found some info on the web:

In TEOTW:
Tell us about Lenn," Egwene called. "How he flew to the moon in the belly of an eagle made of fire. Tell about his daughter Salya walking among the stars."
Could be:
1)Eagle has landed.../Lenn may be a merger of LEM (lunar module) and Glenn.
2)Salya: Sally Ride? Or Salyut, the space station [Douglas Cole].

"Mosk the Giant, with his Lance of Fire that could reach around the world."
Could be: Moscow

"Merk the other giant"
Could be: America

"Materese the Healer, Mother of the Wondrous Ind"
could be: Mother Theresa

[TEOTW: 24, Flight Down the Arinelle, 300]: Bayle Domon mentions a "mountain hollowed into a bowl, and in its center, a silver spike a hundred spans high, and any who comes within a mile of it, dies." This could possibly be a big radio telescope, or maybe the Age of Legends equivalent.

there are probably tons of other things pointing to our world as well, see if u can come up with it.

Snowe

10th January 2005, 06:12 PM

I am unsure of if Saidin will remain untainted for time untold. It could go a few ways, in my mind. If the Dark One is destroyed completely during Tarmon Gai'don, then the taint will most likely remain gone. However, should he simply be sealed in his prison again, there is the possibility that it will be tainted once more.

As far as WoT being set on Earth, it is my belief that it is false. As it was stated before, the geography of 'randland' is completely different. That is not to say that the world in which the books take place is not linked to ours. Many authors draw on world events during their writing, which RJ clearly did as well. In the many turnings of the wheel, anything is possible.

If you remember, there are those stones around the world that lead to many different planes of existance. I think it is possible that one of the infinate worlds linked through those stones is our Earth. The only way any of us can be 100% certain is if RJ clearly states in the books themselves that it is Earth. Until then, everything is just speculation.

Morridini

10th January 2005, 09:43 PM

IAs far as WoT being set on Earth, it is my belief that it is false. As it was stated before, the geography of 'randland' is completely different. That is not to say that the world in which the books take place is not linked to ours. Many authors draw on world events during their writing, which RJ clearly did as well. In the many turnings of the wheel, anything is possible.

But RJ has already confirmed that it is a future/past earth, so that's not up for discussion. And if u look at the world map u see several similarities to our world. In the Age of Legends the world looked probably exactly like us, and then the Breaking came and the continents moved and became destroyed. I would like to pint out the map on page 146 in The World of Robert Jordan's the Wheel of Time, where u clearly see that Seanchan is North-America and South-America, Randland is Europe, the Aiel Waste and Shada is Asia and the Land of Madmen is either Australia or the remains of Africa.

maulkat

11th January 2005, 01:37 PM

I am not one geography at all. I am lucky to know where I live, j/k. Anyway, I will see if I can find that book at the library and take a look at it.
As to the other stuff mentioned by Morridinni, I do not like to read between lines, so to me that stuff is just part of the story, not Earth. Though I do see what you mean when you point them out. That is just supposition though, not proof that is what he means.
I have another question dealing with the one about the taint I asked about a few posts ago. If Rand does not destroy the Dark One, then the taint will return. Right?

Morridini

11th January 2005, 02:15 PM

I don't think so.
The Taint came when they sealed the bore, as a malfunction. So if this time both Men and Women seal it then they won't get the backlash, even when the DO is still alive.

Snowe

11th January 2005, 03:52 PM

But RJ has already confirmed that it is a future/past earth, so that's not up for discussion. And if u look at the world map u see several similarities to our world. In the Age of Legends the world looked probably exactly like us, and then the Breaking came and the continents moved and became destroyed. I would like to pint out the map on page 146 in The World of Robert Jordan's the Wheel of Time, where u clearly see that Seanchan is North-America and South-America, Randland is Europe, the Aiel Waste and Shada is Asia and the Land of Madmen is either Australia or the remains of Africa.

The fact that RJ has confirmed it makes me question it even more. Although examples fail to come to mind, some of his answers seem to be made up on the fly, and forgotten after that. Until I see a clear statement that the Wheel of Time setting -is- Earth in another Age written into the books, I will continue to have my doubts.

maulkat

11th January 2005, 11:46 PM

I don't think so.
The Taint came when they sealed the bore, as a malfunction. So if this time both Men and Women seal it then they won't get the backlash, even when the DO is still alive.

How did it malfunction? I think it might have been because only men sealed it and women did not help at all.

Zahrael

12th January 2005, 12:55 AM

Morridini

12th January 2005, 06:46 AM

I think the reason the DO was able to taint Saidin was because the sealing wasn't a success. They only partly sealed it, so that it would eventually burst open (Tar'mon'gaidon) and the DO could still touch the world.

sarwig

12th January 2005, 11:51 AM

Like how th bubbles of evil started appearing? Or am I wrong?

Wintermute

12th January 2005, 01:03 PM

Sounds like a plausible explanation. I had always wondered how exactly the DO had tainted Saidin. If you read the books, it says 'After he was imprisoned, the Dark One's counterstroke tainted Saidin.' How is it that he is still able to manipulate Saidin if he was inprisoned at the time of the 'counterstroke'? And the way the book makes it sound is that all of the men went insane instantly. So why is it that now, during Tarmon Gaidon time period, they only go insane after so much time?

Forgive me if these are dumb questions. I have only read up to book 5.

Ha ha, I'm almost done Book 5.

Maybe it has something to do with willpower, and being prepared: the Aes Sedai that sealed the Dark One couldn't have been prepared for his counterattack, and saidin getting tainted, but Thom said something about having a nephew that could use saidin, and he stayed sane longer than most people who can because...he's related to Thom.

v.v

Morridini

12th January 2005, 02:01 PM

I don't think Thoms nephew was anything special, if I remember correctly then he managed 3 years before being stilled, or did he die 3 years after he got stilled? Mazrim Taim on the other hand is remarkable, he has channeled Saidin for 15 years and not gone mad yet.

Snowe

12th January 2005, 02:16 PM

Sounds like a plausible explanation. I had always wondered how exactly the DO had tainted Saidin. If you read the books, it says 'After he was imprisoned, the Dark One's counterstroke tainted Saidin.' How is it that he is still able to manipulate Saidin if he was inprisoned at the time of the 'counterstroke'? And the way the book makes it sound is that all of the men went insane instantly. So why is it that now, during Tarmon Gaidon time period, they only go insane after so much time?

Forgive me if these are dumb questions. I have only read up to book 5.

The male Aes Sedai went insane instantly because of the immense shock that came with Saidin being tainted. I'd imagine it was something akin to breathing clean air one moment and lots of toxic fumes the next. Hehe. Those who channel Saidin now are prepared for the taint. The madness takes different amounts of time to touch each male, but it will happen eventually should they continue to channel. They are taught to expect the taint, and constantly fight against it. In my opinion, this is why going taintmad is not an instant occurance in current times.

Morridini

12th January 2005, 02:28 PM

But it wasn't an instant occurance in the Age of Legends either. Only the survivors of the 100 companions went mad at once. The other male Aes Sedia around the globe went mad over time. That's why the Breaking lasted for so long.

maulkat

13th January 2005, 01:11 AM

sarwig

13th January 2005, 02:58 AM

Here's a page I found on the prophecies. http://www.geocities.com/wolfbelote/dragonproph.htm

Morridini

13th January 2005, 07:43 AM

That's a good site to find the dragon prophecies, yes.
But I prefer this one, here they have collected all the propechies in the books (Egwenes dreams, Mins viewing, etc) and also has comments about them (what does it mean, has it been fulfilled?): http://linuxmafia.com/jordan/4_prophecy/index.html

Snowe

13th January 2005, 01:24 PM

Maybe it is due the proximity of the 100 Companions versus the distance of the others. Can a male burnhimself out like a woman can? I am sure that is answered, but I did not pay any attention to it, I guess. Also another question, are there anywhere a copy of the complete Proficies of the Dragon for us to read?

Yes, it is possible for a male channeler to burn himself out. It's what happens to all channelers when they draw too much of the power, essentially gentling or stilling themselves. It is generally assumed that they will die soon after, unless they are kept from harming themselves or tended by a channeler with the ability to heal the severing of the bond to Saidin or Saidar.

maulkat

14th January 2005, 12:40 PM

How many can heal a gentling or stilling? I can only think of Nynaeve.

Morridini

14th January 2005, 12:53 PM

And that other guy, who is one of Rands trusted Asha'man, he is even better then Nynaeve in healing. Nynaeve heal stilling so that the women she heals become weaker the they were. While he heals them to what they used to be.

Snowe

14th January 2005, 11:12 PM

In the books, only a few have been openly recognized as being strong enough to heal gentling/stilling. However, RJ did not go into detail about how many Aes Sedai could do it after the 'how' of it was discovered.

As for Nynaeve healing woman to be less than what they were and the Asha'man who can perform the weave and restore woman to their full power, the reasoning I got out of the difference is that Saidin works better to fully heal the gap in women for some reason. I do not recall a male channeler having to heal another male channeler in this way up to this point, so it may work the same in that regard, that Saidar works better to heal the gap in men.

maulkat

14th January 2005, 11:18 PM

Yeah, I forgot about the male that can heal. What is his name? Is Logain the only male to have been healed at this time? Suaine and what's her name....have been healed. Who else female has been healed?

Zahrael

14th January 2005, 11:19 PM

OR it could just be that Saidan is stronger at healing magics than Saidar is...dunno....

Balefire can be cast by both Saidin and Saidar correct? Is there ever any indication which is stronger at casting it?

Maybe Saidin is better at healing, and Saidar is naturally more destructive? or something like that?

Snowe

16th January 2005, 11:17 PM

I highly doubt that is the case. If you'll notice by all references in the books, Aes Sedai do not use offensive weaves unless they have to. Most of their use of Saidar is passive. On the other hand, Asha'man are trained for the express purpose of being channeling war machines. They are deadly in thought and action. Their use of Saidin is primarily offensive and destructive in nature.

All of my study on the art of channeling has led me to believe that if one half of the source were to be more aggressive, it would be Saidin. I'll break it down into a flow theory chart to illustrate the point.

Fire (masculine/active)
Fire is used to control heat energy, adding or removing it from a weave. Care should be taken when using Fire to remove heat, as drawing the energy into one's self is dangerous and very often fatal. It reacts with other flows as follows:
Air -- These two flows tend to compliment and strengthen each other. Adding the two actives tends to make them even more active. The male/female aspects support each other. To burn strongly, a fire needs plenty of air.
Earth -- The tension and conflict caused by both being male, but one active and one passive, can cause explosive reactions if twined closely.
Water -- These two flows are diametrically opposite. Combining them can result in violent, energetic reactions.
Spirit -- Combination with spirit can produce various effects.

Air (feminine/active)
Controls wind movements and can be used to manipulate objects as if an extra appendage. Where fire is heat energy, Air is kinetic energy. Interactions:
Fire -- Already dealt with under the fire discussion.
Earth -- These are complete opposites, like fire and water. They react vigorously, although not as violently as would fire and water because the active principle in this reaction is feminine.
Water -- Both are feminine, which can cause conflict. However, they can also support one another. The passive nature of water can provide a foundation for strengthening the actions of the air element.
Spirit -- As always, combination with spirit can produce different results depending on how it is used.

Earth (masculine/passive)
Earth is used for manipulating solids. It is passive, forming a foundation for other flows to build upon or react with. It controls cohesion, being used to reinforce and strengthen or to weaken and crumble.
Fire -- Dealt with in the fire discussion.
Air -- Dealt with in the air discussion.
Water -- These flows are complimentary, much as fire and air are. One is masculine and the other feminine, causing them to mesh well, while they are both passive which causes no conflicts.
Spirit -- Various results.

Water (feminine/passive)
Much like earth, water controls cohesion, providing or undermining the structure of a weave. Because of the feminine nature, it is more likely to provide support than to be used destructively. It is also used to manipulate liquids.
The way water reacts with the other flows has already been addressed in the sections for those various flows, with the exception of Spirit, which reacts in various different ways depending on how it is used and what is needed.

Spirit
Spirit is neither masculine nor feminine. It can active passively or actively or even neutrally. It can act as a catalyst to increase the effects of other flows, or it can dampen them. Its realm is life energy and things dealing with the one power itself.

As you can see, each of the various flows has a active/passive property and a masculine/feminine one. The masculine/feminine traits are used in reference to which flows are more commonly strong ones in male and female channelers. This shows that if Saidin or Saidar had to be seen as an active/passive type relationship, Saidin would be the active of the two and have higher abilities for distruction. However, I believe they are equal and the nature of the use of the source depends completely on the person using it.

Anvar

17th January 2005, 01:43 AM

In connection to the posts about male healing, remember the male asha man, Damer Flynn, who is able to heal better than most aes sedai, as was found when the aes sedai asked to study him, to find out how he heals.
So I think it's pretty much equal. Saidin and saidar are both parts of the one power, i think it's the disposition of the user, not the magic in itself that determines whether it is destructive, or creative.

maulkat

19th January 2005, 12:46 AM

It is the what you intend to do with the weave that makes it destructive or not. Nothing to do with the person.

Splat

3rd February 2005, 09:11 PM

It is indeed the intent of the user, as well as the nature of the wave itself, that makes a power destructive or not.

On use of Saidar being passive- This is false. They have to embrace the source as well. However, as Aes Sedai are bound by the Three Oaths, it is only natural that they have focused their attentions on noncombat weaves, whereas Asha'man in general are trained specifically for combat, and most of their weaves are combat related.

Also, the intense training the Asha'man go through pushes their power to a higher strength faster than Aes Sedai training does, but theoretically a woman put under that kind of pressure to use the One Power might also be able to increase her power drastically. As for any channeller, the more one holds the power the more power one can hold.

And would you call an Earthquake weave passive, or a fire ward active?

maulkat

4th February 2005, 12:02 AM

WHat I typed must have been misunderstood. What I mean is, if an evil person casts a weave for a fire ball it would not be evil if he/she is trying to light a fire to cook food with. If a good person is defending his/her life and weaves a fire ball, it might be considered evil because it will cause harm. It is not the weave that is evil, but the intentions of the person casting the weave. Does that make better sense?

Morridini

4th February 2005, 06:23 AM

Also, the intense training the Asha'man go through pushes their power to a higher strength faster than Aes Sedai training does, but theoretically a woman put under that kind of pressure to use the One Power might also be able to increase her power drastically. As for any channeller, the more one holds the power the more power one can hold.

I think I remember RJ saying that men and women grow in strength differently, no matter if they go under the same training. Women grow in strength by time, so the more years they have been channeling the more powerful they have grown. While men jumps in strength sometimes. They have the same strength for years and then suddenly their powers are doubled over night. I will see if I can find RJs actual words.

TrollSlayer

26th March 2005, 02:47 PM

Well, after hearing about this series for a long time, I finally decided to buy one of them. I have the Eye of the World, but I haven't got to start reading it yet.

How many books are their in the entire series, I saw up to ten of them today at Wal-Mart, but is there more than that?

Morridini

26th March 2005, 03:18 PM

There are ten books, number eleven comes this year and the series will end with 12 books.

TrollSlayer

26th March 2005, 09:57 PM

Guess I'm gonna have to start buying them up so I can have the whole series for my viewing pleasure. Is the 12 books counting the Prequel?

Morridini

27th March 2005, 04:12 AM

No, 12 main books and three prequels (only two released yet)

TrollSlayer

27th March 2005, 12:07 PM

oh, three prequels...i thought there was only one. When is the third planned to be released?

Morridini

27th March 2005, 12:55 PM

What the hell did I write???
(only two released yet)
That's wrong, only ONE released yet, jeez. Sorry about that.

TrollSlayer

27th March 2005, 02:38 PM

Thats no problem...we all make mistakes...i woulda figured it out when i started trying to find them...lol

maulkat

28th March 2005, 01:01 AM

I have yet to purchase the prequel, but I finially completed the main part of the series. I got a both hardcover and paperback, but at least it is complete. What is the best book? I like the book where Egwene becomes Amyrillian Seat. I just don't remember the name of it.
When is the next prequel due out?

car'a'carn

4th May 2005, 08:39 AM

a little teaser[I][U]

the following text is written by Robert Jordan himself, it goes about the 11'th book and contains spoilers. don't say i didn't warn you.

Spoiler Warning!

The Wheel of Time turns, and Robert Jordan gives us the eleventh volume of his extraordinary masterwork of fantasy.

The dead are walking, men die impossible deaths, and it seems as though reality itself has become unstable: All are signs of the imminence of Tarmon Gai’don, the Last Battle, when Rand al’Thor, the Dragon Reborn, must confront the Dark One as humanity’s only hope. But Rand dares not fight until he possesses all the surviving seals on the Dark One’s prison and has dealt with the Seanchan, who threaten to overrun all nations this side of the Aryth Ocean and increasingly seem too entrenched to be fought off. But his attempt to make a truce with the Seanchan is shadowed by treachery that may cost him everything. Whatever the price, though, he must have that truce. And he faces other dangers. There are those among the Forsaken who will go to any length to see him dead--and the Black Ajah is at his side...

Unbeknownst to Rand, Perrin has made his own truce with the Seanchan. It is a deal made with the Dark One, in his eyes, but he will do whatever is needed to rescue his wife, Faile, and destroy the Shaido who captured her. Among the Shaido, Faile works to free herself while hiding a secret that might give her her freedom or cause her destruction. And at a town called Malden, the Two Rivers longbow will be matched against Shaido spears.

Fleeing Ebou Dar through Seanchan-controlled Altara with the kidnapped Daughter of the Nine Moons, Mat attempts to court the woman to whom he is half-married, knowing that she will complete that ceremony eventually. But Tuon coolly leads him on a merry chase as he learns that even a gift can have deep significance among the Seanchan Blood and what he thinks he knows of women is not enough to save him. For reasons of her own, which she will not reveal until a time of her choosing, she has pledged not to escape, but Mat still sweats whenever there are Seanchan soldiers near. Then he learns that Tuon herself is in deadly danger from those very soldiers. To get her to safety, he must do what he hates worse than work...

In Caemlyn, Elayne fights to gain the Lion Throne while trying to avert what seems a certain civil war should she win the crown...

In the White Tower, Egwene struggles to undermine the sisters loyal to Elaida from within...

The winds of time have become a storm, and things that everyone believes are fixed in place forever are changing before their eyes. Even the White Tower itself is no longer a place of safety. Now Rand, Perrin and Mat, Egwene and Elayne, Nynaeve and Lan, and even Loial, must ride those storm winds, or the Dark One will triumph.

One

5th May 2005, 02:52 PM

Unbeknownst to Rand, Perrin has made his own truce with the Seanchan. It is a deal made with the Dark One, in his eyes, but he will do whatever is needed to rescue his wife, Faile, and destroy the Shaido who captured her. Among the Shaido, Faile works to free herself while hiding a secret that might give her her freedom or cause her destruction. And at a town called Malden, the Two Rivers longbow will be matched against Shaido spears.

Wow, Perrin gets a piece of the plot. He was practically absent for the longest time. :whatgives

maulkat

7th May 2005, 01:48 AM

He had almost all of one book totally his. I think it was number nine, Winters Heart. I am not positive though. Perrin is my face char. So I hope he gets more in this book than some of the others.

Lau_wings

7th May 2005, 09:51 PM

well iam halfway through book 8 and loven it lol, i just hope that i dont get bored with the next couple of books, because you have nearly all said that they slow down a bit but u get that lol.

i just have 1 question since it took me so long for me to go from the 3rd to the 4th book ( it was like 2 months :P) i have fogotten somthing, perrin was goin mad because of the wolf inside him taking over ect. and now hes all sane again and the wolf inside dosent play a factor exept for hisincreased site. what happened there?

maulkat

13th May 2005, 12:55 AM

Maybe he finially accepted the fact of the brother wolf thing.
What is the next book going to be called?

car'a'carn

13th May 2005, 01:58 AM

well iam halfway through book 8 and loven it lol, i just hope that i dont get bored with the next couple of books, because you have nearly all said that they slow down a bit but u get that lol.

if you don't think it's already pretty slow in this book. you'll prabably won't get annoyed with the others.

What is the next book going to be called?
if it's book 11 you're reffering at, it will be called 'knife of dreams'

maulkat

14th May 2005, 12:28 AM

That is the one I was asking about. Hum, I wonder if the library already has a waiting list for it......I'll have to check. I hope it is just as good as the earlier books in the series.

car'a'carn

14th May 2005, 02:33 AM

I hope theire's going to be more action in it. The last few books had to little action IMHO. and I hope all the main characters have equally devided rolles in this book, I don't like reading about 1 char, not knowing what's going on with an other.

TrollSlayer

17th May 2005, 04:25 PM

I am nearing the end of the first book and I have no idea what 'The Eye of the World' is, even though it is mentioned so many times, I have been unable to figure out just what it is.

Seems to me its something important. Its not listed in the glossary either. I'd appreciate it if someone could inform me about it.

maulkat

18th May 2005, 01:05 AM

I can not help you out there really. They do not have the book on order yet. I will have to check back in a couple of months I guess.

car'a'carn

19th May 2005, 08:30 AM

in the end of book one, the fellowship meets this green man. this green man is the protector of a place called the eye of the world. It contains some sorth of bath filled with Saidin. on the bottom of it Rhand found the dragon banner and that horn that calls back ancient hero's.

TrollSlayer

19th May 2005, 05:48 PM

yeh, after I read it, I understood it more, but it was mentioned in nearly all of the boys' dreams with little to none information given about it. It was just said that, "The Eye of the World will never serve you."

That was about all I could gather until they actually arrived at the eye of the world.

maulkat

20th May 2005, 01:11 AM

It has been over a year since I read the first books. So, I guess I forgot that. I will have reread them soon. At least some of them. Just to remember all that happend leading up to the next book.

TrollSlayer

20th May 2005, 08:36 AM

It was pretty good, but I didn't understand about The Eye never going to serve them. I can't wait to start the next book.

car'a'carn

20th May 2005, 10:00 AM

the only thing I can tell you is to keep on reading the series, it will get boring at some point, but probably you'll find it more interesting near the end of it.

TrollSlayer

20th May 2005, 04:49 PM

yeh, it does seem that it has its slumps at times, but then after a few chapters will rebound and turn out pretty good.

maulkat

20th May 2005, 11:40 PM

That is how it is in alot of books though. Up, down, up, down.....
There are few series that keep action up all the time. I think that would get boring after awhile though.
Good books and worth the read and time spent on them.

midnight_gypsy

22nd May 2005, 03:23 AM

[QUOTE=SilentGhost]
I'd say that Slayer is a title, not a third personality, just like how the Forsaken are called Chosen. Although, Slayer hasn't shown any kind of "powers" yet, just that he can enter the world of dreams and the strange tower somehow.
QUOTE]
slayer is what the wolves call isam/luc, because he slays wolves, utterly. the only final death for a wolf is in tel'aran'rhiod, aka, the wolf dream, because what is done there to a living thing is final, and technically, though the wolve have physically died, they are alive in tel'aran'rhiod, at least till slayer gets them.
remember, the forsaken call themselves the chosen.it would be more accurate to say that slayer is a title as forsaken is a title
i dont know if sum1s already said this or not cos i was not goin to read evry thin else before i wrote this, so sorry if its already been said

and just out of interest, who here out of the aussies cant wait for october?
:cool:
:mistdrago

car'a'carn

27th May 2005, 01:18 PM

october? my guess: the 11'the book is coming out. This means i'll have to wait at least till march before I can read it :(

maulkat

28th May 2005, 12:00 AM

october? my guess: the 11'the book is coming out. This means i'll have to wait at least till march before I can read it :(

Why do you say that?

car'a'carn

28th May 2005, 04:06 AM

I don't buy my books. sow I'll have to wait till it's translated and the local library buys it.

maulkat

29th May 2005, 11:17 PM

Understood. I live in the USA, so I do not really have to worry about waiting long. Though my library does not have it on order yet.

TrollSlayer

29th May 2005, 11:45 PM

I buy my books...I like to have a copy of the book after I read it, just so I can just put it on my bookshelf for reading again in the future.

SilentGhost

1st June 2005, 07:05 PM

*yawn* Ghost is back after a very long sleep (due to some prodding by maulkat ^_^ ).

Before I go on to newer stuff I just want to correct a discussion held earlier about the diffirence between men and women healing being stilled/gentled. It isn't a question of power or being more adept at healing stilling, the real factor is gender.

Remember that Nyaveve healed Suian, Leane, and Logain. Only Logain regained his full strength. Also remember that Damer was able to heal the women stilled by Rand (when he escaped the chest he was being carried in) back to full strength. So the bottom line, as I see it, is that the male half can only fully heal women and the female half can only fully heal men. Thus men and women have to rely on each other in case something goes wrong.

Anyways, it's such a bummer that RJ is taking so long to release the last of the books. Not even one per year is such a bust, he has to be slacking off or something. XP

car'a'carn

9th June 2005, 12:49 PM

Robert Jordan has finished writing of 'knife of dreams'.

information at Dragonmount.

We received word today that Robert Jordan has finished writing and editing Knife of Dreams. Straight from RJ:

Yes, Knife of Dreams is finally done. Harriet and I completed the editing this past weekend, and today I finished going over the glossary. A day or two to mull it over and make sure there isn't anything else I want to do, and off it goes to [Tor Books]. It seems like a pretty good book, to me. A long-running thread or two finally get tied off

Before you get too exited though, don't expect this news to move the publication date up. Most likely Tor Books will read it over and make editorial checks. It will also give them a chance to maximize the publicity surrounding the new novel.

Up next for RJ....

I am doing cleanup on my notes in preparation for starting the twelfth book, but I will get in a little fishing this summer, and maybe some golf. Of course, [Harriet and I will] be in San Diego for the International ComicCon [...] and in Atlanta for DragonCon at Labor Day. They have a complete Wheel of Time track, and they've been asking me for years, but this is the first time I've actually been free to attend.

Get ready follks. If you're in the US, you'll have several chances to meet Robert Jordan and spend some time with him. Check out those conventions, most espeically DragonCon which is going to be one incredibly cool event. If you can't do one of those, stay tuned in the coming months for information about his US book tour.

Knife od Dreams is due to be released on October 11, 2005 in the US and UK.

Lau_wings

11th June 2005, 02:51 AM

W00T i cant wait for it to come out *starts running round stupidly in exitement* wahoo

dead_omen

11th June 2005, 06:15 AM

hey if you guys have morrowind did you know theres a mod for it to make it more wheel of time-ish its at the summit: http://www.rpgplanet.com/morrowind/ you may have to do quite abit of digging so... i havnt read the books me cousin wont let me even touch his (what a bastard) anyways yea so if i find the EXACT link ill send it to you

update found it i dont like diggin through archives to find this stuff http://www.rpgplanet.com/morrowind/modcontrols/mod.asp?modid=1489

i also found this one its a mod that adds items from the wheel of time series
http://www.rpgplanet.com/morrowind/modcontrols/mods.asp

neways sorry if this didnt help anyone

Anvar

13th June 2005, 05:42 AM

The thing that interests me the most is Moridin. He seems to know much more than any other character you get to peek inside the mind of. He had that game from a time long before the age of legends, i think in crown of sword, but i could be mistaken, where the middle person, the weaver, is blinded and has a cut on his side. It is my theory that the wheel of time is an infinite loop, where far in the past Rand has already faced the dark one, and far in the future he will do so again. It is also me theory that Rand can only stop this infinite loop of good vs bad by steping outside of the pattern, and facing the D O on a plane of existance not controled by the weaving of the age lace. but this is only speculation.

Another thing I don't have a theory for is the third person inside Rand, the one who helped him at Shadar Logoth (Although sameal is obviously not dead). It wasn't Lews Therin, as he knows his face as it pops into his head occasionally, so who is it, this third man who presumably was another to oppose the D O?

car'a'carn

13th June 2005, 07:55 AM

It is my theory that the wheel of time is an infinite loop, where far in the past Rand has already faced the dark one, and far in the future he will do so again.

I believe you're right, the weel of times consist out of seven ages. don't forget the wheel, and the snake represent infinity.The main lines of every loop of ages are the same, I guess, always with different persons and different histories.

Anvar

13th June 2005, 11:53 AM

I think the persons and histories are the same, as each special soul (artur hawkwing, briggite silverbow, Rand) is used again and again throughout the turnings of the wheel. What happens will happen again exactly the same, in thousands of years intervals. however, that is only my opinion, and I could be wrong.

maulkat

14th June 2005, 12:50 AM

Yeah, the wheel is unending as it has no beginning. In some lives, the incarnations of Rand have followed the DO. In other lives he has fought against him.
Who currently has possestion of the Horn? It was found in, I think book one or two. Mat blew it and then it just went away.

car'a'carn

14th June 2005, 05:23 AM

I believe the Horn is still in Tar Valon, it is somewhere in one of it's basements. Mordeth's dagger was there too, but he came to get it. I believe he left the horn as it was.

Anvar

14th June 2005, 06:36 AM

The horn of valere is in the store room of the White Tower, in the box that it was discovered in. Nobody knows of its presence there except for Siuan, Moiraine(Who is suspect to be alive in either the lands of aelfin of eilfin)possibly leane and mat. Elaida is stillunsuspecting of its presence. I was wondering, if Briggite is now alive in the real world, and not awaiting the call of the horn in tel aran rhiod, then will she be summoned at tarmon gaidon if Mat blows the horn?

car'a'carn

14th June 2005, 10:23 AM

i don't think sow, she already is alive. the horn only summons the heroes in TAR. However, I think she will be their, as bodyguard of Elayne. She'll be their cause she's a green aes sedai. (I don't know if the names I use are correct, i've read the books in dutch sow a translation problem could always appear)

a person i'm intreaged by is Slayer, how about him. I know his historie, but what will he be doing in the future? you guys think he's gonna have a roll during TG?

Anvar

14th June 2005, 10:28 AM

Personally, I think Luc will be dealt with before hand, maybe by Lan, maybe by Perrin. Still thats only speculation. He follows his own code, his own ways, I don't think he is strictly a servant of the dark one, more an assasain you can hire to kill people by going into Tel aran Rhiod.

P.S Your translations are correct, Elayne is Green Ajah.

maulkat

8th August 2005, 01:48 AM

Is the date for the book coming out still Oct? That was what I heard at least.

Morridini

8th August 2005, 09:36 AM

11 of Oct yes.

Morridini

10th August 2005, 03:58 PM

I came across a prologue fro Knife of Dreams by Robert Jordan, called : Embers Falling on Dry Grass.

I have uploaded it here (use the html file after unziping):
http://rapidshare.de/files/3855560/Embers_Falling_on_Dry_Grass.zip.html

maulkat

11th August 2005, 12:35 AM

Cool, I will check it out. My library still does not have it on order that I have found. I will keep checking though and hopefully I will be one of the first to get it from them.

car'a'carn

18th August 2005, 04:33 PM

"Power of the Shadow made human flesh,
wakened to turmoil, strife, and ruin.
The Reborn One, marked and bleeding,
dances the sword in dreams and mist,
chains the Shadowsworn to his will,
from the city, lost and forsaken,
leads the spears to war once more,
breaks the spears and makes them see,
truth long hidden in the ancient dream."

all i know this is a part of the karaethon prophecies.
Can anyone tell me what this is about, did this prophecy came true already or is it still to come? I can't connect it to anything :s, all i can come up with is the part of the city(from the city, lost and forsaken,)this is the one that was destroyed while cleansing the one power ( I can't remember it's name), or at least i think.

maybe the time has come to start rereading once more :d

maulkat

18th August 2005, 10:40 PM

Isn't the reborn one Rand? At least I thought so.
The referance to spears might be the Aiel. With all thier spears.

Morridini

18th August 2005, 11:28 PM

Yeah it has happened.

"Power of the Shadow made human flesh,
wakened to turmoil, strife, and ruin. "

That might just mean that the Forsaken has come back and has started to ruin the world.

"The Reborn One, marked and bleeding,
dances the sword in dreams and mist,"

This happened in book 2. He got the never healing Wound and the heron mark while fighting Ishamael in the clouds.

"chains the Shadowsworn to his will,"

Dunno actually. I'll come back to it.

"from the city, lost and forsaken,
leads the spears to war once more,
breaks the spears and makes them see,
truth long hidden in the ancient dream."

He was declared C'aracarn (or something) at the city Rhuidean. He started leading the Aiel to do stuff for him (could also refer to the Maidens of the Spear). And the breaking of spears was when he told about their past, which made many Aiel to break their Spears and run away.

EDIT: I just stopped by the Wheel of Time FAQ site, http://www.arkane-systems.net/faqs/WOTFAQ/4_prophecy/4.5_karaethon.html, and it seems that "chains the Shadowsworn to his will" might mean when he got control over Asmoedean.

car'a'carn

19th August 2005, 07:01 AM

Yeah it has happened.

"Power of the Shadow made human flesh,
wakened to turmoil, strife, and ruin. "

That might just mean that the Forsaken has come back and has started to ruin the world.

i was more thinking about that Gholam thingy that's trying to hunt down and kill Math. Mostly because it says 'made'. But I can agree with the rest of the explenation given ;)

maulkat

22nd August 2005, 12:03 AM

"i was more thinking about that Gholam thingy that's trying to hunt down and kill Math. Mostly because it says 'made'. But I can agree with the rest of the explenation given."

I never thought of it that way. That is a good point.

doos

22nd August 2005, 10:24 AM

True, but that line was first stated in book four, and the gholam didn't really appear until, what, seven? Not to mention there's five more of them, presumably.

I'm thinking it could be notice that Ishamael had returned (in the form of Moridin), as Dragon-vs-Antithesis (which I believe is to be Ishamael) is the neverending, constantly-occuring battle. Or it could be Shaidar Haran, as he constantly, and vehemetly declares himself as a part of, if not most of the DO made flesh -- And fades are slightly human.

BladeMage3

10th September 2005, 06:08 AM

Im currently reading a seires called The wheel of time. I love these books and I think anyone that loves a good fantasy will too. there are 10 in the series and the shortest book is 600 pages long (paperback) so If your a fan of lord of the rings or harry potter, go to the book stor or libary and check out these books. There really good, also, if you read these books, post here and tell me what book your on (currently on book 4)

TrollSlayer

10th September 2005, 08:32 AM

http://www.giveupalready.com/showthread.php?t=421

theres already a thread about this, so I'd be looking for your thread to be closed once the Book forum moderator sees this.

But I've read the first two books of the series and liked them quite a bit. I like the twists and turns that Jordan puts into the plot.

Morridini

10th September 2005, 02:26 PM

Yeah it is a great series. You should really check out what has already been said in the other thread, although it is quite a bit of reading.

whirlwind

11th September 2005, 11:37 AM

*threads merged*

Woo

13th September 2005, 05:53 PM

Anyway, if you guys want to we can continue talking about WOT. I hope you do. I didn't get on here to see what you last said, Morridini. I hope you are on here too. Anyway, if anybody else wants to join go for it.
Oh god, how i hate the Wheel of Time.

I read the first book because everyone rants about it, but he said in like 900 pages what could have been said in 200. There is so much useless, annoying, poorly described stuff going on i can't stand it. Not to mention ALL the female characters were disgustingly annoying; i wanted them all to die. The bad guys are just like orcs, except poorly created and damn near useless(THE TROLLOCS ATTACKED AND ONE WAS KILLED. RAND USED HIS STUPID SWORD AND STABBED ONE! IT WAS UNHAPPY AS IT DIED AND NAENVAEH SAID 'OMG TEH W33L W33VZ!!1")

In short, i hate:
1. the characters
2. the writing style
3. the story.

:/

I still don't understand how the guy who created this series has managed to churn out thousands of pages of crap. I don't mean to flame or provoke anger, but i just hated the Wheel of Time. I want my damn time back.

maulkat

14th September 2005, 01:11 PM

Some people haven't liked it. I thought the first book started slowly. I still read it though. Last time I checked my lib still doesn't have it on order and it comes out in a month.
I finially got the prequel book too. That was the only one that is actually part of the story I did not have. I think there is another book out, but I don't remember the name of it. All it is is about the books. Names, places and such. Not an actual story.

car'a'carn

3rd October 2005, 10:56 AM

I can't believe I missed this :imslow:
could it be that book is named 'the world of WoT' or something like that? I heard it is filled with useful information.

has anyone got any new news on nr 11? I'm realy getting tired of waiting :S

One

3rd October 2005, 09:34 PM

Oh god, how i hate the Wheel of Time.

I read the first book because everyone rants about it, but he said in like 900 pages what could have been said in 200. There is so much useless, annoying, poorly described stuff going on i can't stand it. Not to mention ALL the female characters were disgustingly annoying; i wanted them all to die. The bad guys are just like orcs, except poorly created and damn near useless(THE TROLLOCS ATTACKED AND ONE WAS KILLED. RAND USED HIS STUPID SWORD AND STABBED ONE! IT WAS UNHAPPY AS IT DIED AND NAENVAEH SAID 'OMG TEH W33L W33VZ!!1")

In short, i hate:
1. the characters
2. the writing style
3. the story.

:/

I still don't understand how the guy who created this series has managed to churn out thousands of pages of crap. I don't mean to flame or provoke anger, but i just hated the Wheel of Time. I want my damn time back.

You're allowed your opinion. /shrug

To do you justice, it is indeed stereotypical. I don't like most fantasy series for combining that with long-windedness, but I enjoyed WoT. It has faults on top of faults and YET keeps you reading because of its overall good writing style, which is its saving grace.

And its addicting element.

Actually, not to mention its intricate plot and the complexity and variety of the characters, even within their stereotypes.

maulkat

5th October 2005, 01:49 AM

I got the book on order from my lib. I was looking in the wrong place. I still do not know exactly when it is coming out, but I know it is soon. I got the World of Wheel of Time or something like from the lib. I have not had much of a chance to look at it yet. I hope to soon though. Is there anything that has the Dragon Profecies? So far I have not found one.

Artoch

5th October 2005, 12:05 PM

Oh god, how i hate the Wheel of Time.

I read the first book because everyone rants about it, but he said in like 900 pages what could have been said in 200. There is so much useless, annoying, poorly described stuff going on i can't stand it. Not to mention ALL the female characters were disgustingly annoying; i wanted them all to die. The bad guys are just like orcs, except poorly created and damn near useless(THE TROLLOCS ATTACKED AND ONE WAS KILLED. RAND USED HIS STUPID SWORD AND STABBED ONE! IT WAS UNHAPPY AS IT DIED AND NAENVAEH SAID 'OMG TEH W33L W33VZ!!1")

In short, i hate:
1. the characters
2. the writing style
3. the story.

:/

I still don't understand how the guy who created this series has managed to churn out thousands of pages of crap. I don't mean to flame or provoke anger, but i just hated the Wheel of Time. I want my damn time back.

You're entitled of your own opinion but i do not agree on the poorly described thing. Jordan describes everything down to the fabrics the characters are wearing.