PDA

View Full Version : Music What do you consider?



Darkstar_
10th September 2004, 03:55 PM
Okay it seems many different people have different thoughts about the meaning of the word sell out. Some people think it is when a band gets uber popular and starts making the bills...that makes them sellouts. I would have to disagree with that.

Most musicians come into the music industry seeking a job and seeking fame. They make music they love so other people will love it and buy their CDs. If you come into the Music Industry not seeking for success then you won't get any.

My definition of sellout. Someone who is popular but had a distinct sound but now sounds like everything else like mainstream. Or the big buck rollers that like to cry piss and moan about how they have no money and how the little pirate that steals their songs are taking chump change from their pockets because of his utmost dedication to the band. Where its no longer about the fans just about gaining as much money as you can then start making Greatest Hits CDs.

Metallica seems very apparent in the Pirate one. :D. But still many people consider them a great band.

So getting to the point what do you consider selling out?

And if they sell out (like Metallica did longst ago) by your terms are they considered a great band still?

Duke Manboy IV
10th September 2004, 04:12 PM
Sell-out: A band that intends to make big money with its music and has becoming a star as its only purpose when composing the songs.
Believe it or not, but those bands exists.

Three categories: Idealism, sell-out whores and oldskool bands.

Idealism: Those are the bands that have making music as their only purpose, not making money. The motive though, is some kind of protest against all sell-out bands, and not making good music without making good money.

Sell-out whores: The bands we tend to label as sell-out. They do everything for the money and try to sell as much albums as possible.
They're never ashamed for some big publicity, even if it is the bad (read: pr0n) one.

Oldskool bands: Those are the real bands, those that make music to make music. Not to make money and not to be controversial compared to the sell-out whores.
Some of them actually are very poor and live in their car, yet do not care and keep on making the music they like and their obscure, limited fan-base likes.

If a band sells out, this can lead to two things.
1. This doesn't create a lack of quality and talent in their songs: no problem.
2. This causes a huge lack of quality and talent in the songs in such a way it is a shame to all their former albums.
Only in case two I tend not to like them any longer, since I do not care if a band is sell-out, as long as the music is good.
Unfortunately, most sell-out bands do not care about quality anymore, only about the content of their bank acounts or the quantity of girls/boys worshipping them.

Note: These are all just opinions!

Shadowed|banned
10th September 2004, 08:26 PM
To me, a sellout is when their goal is to make money above all else. If they alienate their original fan base and genre, switch to a more mainstream genre, and have more commerical/mainstream lyrics, that's selling out. Bands can make money, sell millions of cds, and not be sellouts. That just means they're famous. But when they do all they can to profit off their listeners, that's selling out.

Darkstar_
10th September 2004, 08:27 PM
who do you lists as sell outs? give me some examples.

Shadowed|banned
10th September 2004, 08:31 PM
Metallica, first and foremost. Also a lot of nu-metal and punk bands. But Metallica is the biggest dissapointment for me. I don't pay much attention to bands outside heavy metal, so I can't give you many names.

Darkstar_
10th September 2004, 08:41 PM
Yeah i know Metallica but i'm trying to link back to the punk/ metal convo that we had on the other thread about certain bands...also on a couple other punk threads. Such as Blink 182, Pappa Roach, Limp Bizkit. I really don't think they are sell outs.

Blink 182- still sounds like themselves...is still based on their fan base...really doesn't spend the cash like the rest of the stars do.

Pappa Roach- Sounds like himself, but he tends to not care about his fan base. He has gotten more mainstreamed though i have noticed.

Now the biggest of them all but almost the least to sell out. Limp Bizkit- He sounds like himself, he only got popular because people like to listen to him. He really didn't lauunch himself mainstream he was more like pulled into the spot light. And he has a devotion to his fan base...being as many people said 13 year old boys. But he gets tons of publicity...maybe not as good.

Selling out has just become the new thing though which is a lack of quality in the music business. You see many bands that just get in there make the quick buck from maybe their 2 albums then are never seen again unless on some VH1 clip show. I really think selling out is ruining the music industry all togther.

And at some years there is an increase and then a decrease in it...like with the boy bands...it increased...then they were out of trend...now punk has been plagued by it...and i hope it decreases so i can get back to my punk the way i found it.
It also happened in rap...increase with gangsta rap...after Tupac and Biggie died large decrease and etc.

Duke Manboy IV
11th September 2004, 03:27 AM
Yeah i know Metallica but i'm trying to link back to the punk/ metal convo that we had on the other thread about certain bands...also on a couple other punk threads. Such as Blink 182, Pappa Roach, Limp Bizkit. I really don't think they are sell outs.

Blink 182- still sounds like themselves...is still based on their fan base...really doesn't spend the cash like the rest of the stars do.

I have to disagree here. They do not sound like they did in the beginning, but in their case that's not a bad thing.
They and their music have just grown more mature and more dark.
They do spend the cash and they do enjoy their fame though... don't you watch Mtv ?


Pappa Roach- Sounds like himself, but he tends to not care about his fan base. He has gotten more mainstreamed though i have noticed.

Papa Roach doesn't sound like it used to anymore. Have you ever heard any "Infest" or "Old friends from young years" songs? Compare them to "Lovehatetragedy" and "Getting away with murder."
Face it, after the succes they had with "Infest," they started selling out in order to get more money and more fame.
Unfortunately... They used to be a good Nu-metal band.


Now the biggest of them all but almost the least to sell out. Limp Bizkit- He sounds like himself, he only got popular because people like to listen to him. He really didn't lauunch himself mainstream he was more like pulled into the spot light. And he has a devotion to his fan base...being as many people said 13 year old boys. But he gets tons of publicity...maybe not as good.

Are you kidding me? Fred durst embodies the definition of sell-out!!1!1!!shift!
Why do you think Wes Borland left Limp bizkit? He was tired of the shit Fred had caused to the band with his eagerness to become more famous and get more money.
These days everything that moron is doing is hanging out in "the cave" in the Playboy mansion or being at celebrety parties desperately trying to keep up his rocker appearance.


Selling out has just become the new thing though which is a lack of quality in the music business. You see many bands that just get in there make the quick buck from maybe their 2 albums then are never seen again unless on some VH1 clip show. I really think selling out is ruining the music industry all togther.

And at some years there is an increase and then a decrease in it...like with the boy bands...it increased...then they were out of trend...now punk has been plagued by it...and i hope it decreases so i can get back to my punk the way i found it.
It also happened in rap...increase with gangsta rap...after Tupac and Biggie died large decrease and etc.

Selling out has always existed and unfortunately it will always exist.
Boy bands still exist. Look at the crappy formation daring to call itself music, "Blue."
I am with you hoping Punk will become what it once was, but believe me, there still are a lot of Oldskool and underground bands around that estimate musical quality over money.

-----------------------------


To me, a sellout is when their goal is to make money above all else. If they alienate their original fan base and genre, switch to a more mainstream genre, and have more commerical/mainstream lyrics, that's selling out. Bands can make money, sell millions of cds, and not be sellouts. That just means they're famous. But when they do all they can to profit off their listeners, that's selling out.

Do you mean the band leaves their fans behind? Because in my opinion it's the other way around: the fans leave the band, due to the fact they're selling out.

Seguro
11th September 2004, 06:31 AM
to sell out you first have to have some integrity. that's why music whores ain't considered sell out.

the way most bands sell out...

they make a variety kind of album, with all kind of songs for all kinds of people

they get a hit with one song

record label tell them that if they make an album filled with that song they'll sell a lot of albums

the sell out

and then sometimes there is a pathetic struggle of why selling out didn't worked for them, they either die (stabbing westward) or work to evindicate their names (fear Factory)... if the pathetic struggle didn't taken place then you have a band making a hell of "under the bridge" and "my friends" in an album called californication and a lot of people cheering to it....

maybe we should make a list of sell out bands with arguments of why we think how they selled out

Perad
11th September 2004, 07:12 AM
The Sellout

A group is good, they have a fan base, they have beliefs, they play to please fans and have fun and maybe to make enough money to survive. One day they have a big hit. There face gets in the paper, they make some money. It goes to their head so they dump there beliefs, they write generic songs and try to use there fan base to buy enough records to catapult them onto radio so they can surf in the main stream. That is what a sell-out is.

What isn't a sell out is if a band get popular like maryln manson, Muse or Rancid. They may all have been underground groups till one day they became popular. This doesn't make them a sell-out and it annoys me when people say this.

Its the same with writing, if there is a rock group who one day wants to write a pop record, simply because its the thing they are into at the time then its not selling out. Its just them taking another route

Darkstar_
11th September 2004, 11:49 AM
I have to disagree here. They do not sound like they did in the beginning, but in their case that's not a bad thing.
They and their music have just grown more mature and more dark.
They do spend the cash and they do enjoy their fame though... don't you watch Mtv ?


yeah they have gotten better and darker and a little more serious due to the fact that they are in their late 20s now with kids.

And no i don't watch that MTV bullshit. MuchMusicUSA or now FUSE is better.



Papa Roach doesn't sound like it used to anymore. Have you ever heard any "Infest" or "Old friends from young years" songs? Compare them to "Lovehatetragedy" and "Getting away with murder."
Face it, after the succes they had with "Infest," they started selling out in order to get more money and more fame.
Unfortunately... They used to be a good Nu-metal band.


They have progressed. And yes i have both their original CDs. Really you can't just rehash the same old stuff you have to start changing things little by little.

But they really don't sound way to mainstream.



Are you kidding me? Fred durst embodies the definition of sell-out!!1!1!!shift!
Why do you think Wes Borland left Limp bizkit? He was tired of the shit Fred had caused to the band with his eagerness to become more famous and get more money.
These days everything that moron is doing is hanging out in "the cave" in the Playboy mansion or being at celebrety parties desperately trying to keep up his rocker appearance.


Yeah i see that alot. Sorry i should have thought more about it. Like i said with the publicity and stuff though he is a publicity whore.

Shadowed|banned
11th September 2004, 11:56 AM
Zechs: I mean they leave their true fans for the money. By this, I mean that they go to make money, not please their initial fans, so therefore leave them behind. The fans in turn leave the band behind.

Seguro
11th September 2004, 12:06 PM
The Sellout
Its the same with writing, if there is a rock group who one day wants to write a pop record, simply because its the thing they are into at the time then its not selling out. Its just them taking another route

err kinda this is the excuse they give you sometimes when they sell out
"we want to take another direction" yeah right.

In the list I'll want to start with Green day's Good riddance led them into making the Warning Lp... dude they just abused of the ballads

r@v3n
11th September 2004, 01:34 PM
My definition of a sell-out is a band that totally and completely forgets their fans. If a band plays at a concert, but is unwilling to sign autographs then they are a sell-out. Some bands forget that it is the fans that get them to where they are.

Duke Manboy IV
11th September 2004, 03:07 PM
My definition of a sell-out is a band that totally and completely forgets their fans. If a band plays at a concert, but is unwilling to sign autographs then they are a sell-out. Some bands forget that it is the fans that get them to where they are.

I don't know if the autograph thingy was a definition or an exemple, but I would put it this way.
A band should give autographs if the fans want it, but they shouldn't be too eager to give those away.
That would make their ego grow in an unhealthy way, supporting their eagerness to become more famous and give away more autographs.
But was it a definition or an exemple, because in my opinion a band not giving autographs isn't a sell-out band, it can even point out the fact they wish to be obscure.

whirlwind
11th September 2004, 03:12 PM
To me a sellout is a band or artist that comes into the music business either looking for money, or when they make it, change their style, or genre etc to make them more money!