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bytertje
20th February 2005, 08:44 AM
Here's an idea that ocured to me. Why not delete the top 10 players accounts every age on the end.
The thing we see now is that players like denny,lord striker etc etc have about 2000 officers or more. If we delete them after a round being top 10 ranked you have about 4000 to 10 000 potential new winners instead of every age having the same people top ranked.
i think it would make the game nicer to play. this way everyone stands a chance of winning. if you took the chance and got to the top 10 you're starting al over again.

how about it?

Zap
20th February 2005, 08:49 AM
that would be very annoying for them, imagen that you are one of them and you have worked some years to get 2000 officers and just lose them in 1 sec? it would cause the top players to leave KoC because I doubt they will work that hard again besides, I guess that many of their top ranked officers will join them again, thats for sure

SataiDelenn
20th February 2005, 08:54 AM
Here's an idea that ocured to me. Why not delete the top 10 players accounts every age on the end.
The thing we see now is that players like denny,lord striker etc etc have about 2000 officers or more. If we delete them after a round being top 10 ranked you have about 4000 to 10 000 potential new winners instead of every age having the same people top ranked.
i think it would make the game nicer to play. this way everyone stands a chance of winning. if you took the chance and got to the top 10 you're starting al over again.

how about it?


And how would you feel if it was you that was a top player and that suggestion was implemented? Would you like it if you woke up one morning and logged on to KOC only to find all your hard work just, "poof" gone, just like that? I don't think you'd like it very much. I'm sure the top players would like it even less. I know I'd be pretty pissed off if all my hard work during the age just disappeared!!!!!

bytertje
20th February 2005, 08:56 AM
Most people only join a commander because this one is verry high ranked. not because it's such a good friend. besides, if they quit because they have to work hard to get a good chain, what do you think about other players then ? they have to do exactly the same right? You see them quiting ? By this new system it makes koc a real challenge again also for big players . so it works both ways. new people standing a chance old players having to put some effort in it again to become great again. And your chain isn't just disappearing. the chain only disappears when you ranked top 10 at the end. so you had your bennefits of it already.

Zap
20th February 2005, 09:03 AM
what do you think about other players then ? they have to do exactly the same right?

jup, they have to do it better, faster, stronger.
you cannot expect to be better than them if you work less than them


By this new system it makes koc a real challenge again also for big players
and very frustrating too


put some effort in it again to become great again
do you think they want that age after age?

bytertje
20th February 2005, 09:07 AM
Why shuldn't they have to put the same effort in it as the rest of the players? Why would that be so unfair?
i think it would be verry fair. If we keep it up like it is now you'll see that when we reach age 10 the top 10 wil have over 20 000 officer and the rest will have to settle with about 5 officers . is that what you want?

the only people who are going to answer yes now are top 25 players with a view on the top 10.

Zap
20th February 2005, 09:14 AM
Why shuldn't they have to put the same effort in it as the rest of the players? Why would that be so unfair?

because they have already done it before, why should they do it twice? now that would be unfair


If we keep it up like it is now you'll see that when we reach age 10 the top 10 wil have over 20 000 officer and the rest will have to settle with about 5 officers . is that what you want?

20 000 officers? people come and quit besides if they have 20.000 officers then they must have earned it, no need to blame them because they are like 60 times better than me. and yes I guess I want it to happen, mane players are a part of the chain and we know our commander very well, it would be sad to see him/her leave us.


the only people who are going to answer yes now are top 25 players with a view on the top 10.

nope, I am far from the top 10, and I will answer yes

bytertje
20th February 2005, 09:16 AM
You know why every age is a new age ?

Zap
20th February 2005, 09:21 AM
You know why every age is a new age ?

of couse I do, a game has to come to an end, or else people woild get bored, there is a suggestion in the (old?) throne room where a player suggested that the age shouldn't end, and just make it "round" people didn't agree with him, people want to start all over again so they can start building their powerfull army size instead of buying/training all the time

the reason why an age ends is not that we all have to start 100% over again and it have never been it in that way

bytertje
20th February 2005, 09:29 AM
A new age should start so that everybody stands a fair chance again.
Now what we see every age is that te same 50 people reach the first page because they only have to make sure to click al theyr officers link each and every single day.
This way the other people are almost pushed in the corner of playing unfair to keep up with the topplayers.

if we would start to use the delete option for top 10 players this would mean everybody stands a fair chance if they play long enough. And of course the big players would have to start over again after they reached top 10 at the end of an age. But hey, if they think everybody stands a fair chance now then they shouldn't have a problem with starting al over again just like the new players do.

i think this new option really balances out the game. and only gives people a chance if they keep playing. If you took your chance on a top 10 rank and reached that place you have to make place next age for another delegation of people trying to take theirs.

I wonder what the big players think of this plan?

Neomackenzie
20th February 2005, 09:33 AM
I think it is a stupid topic to argue about.. the top ranked players are there because they deserved it and worked hard for it.. every age, ur stats get resetted .. that's enough.. if u want them deleted, it is just because u are jealous and can't get high enough to get recognised..

The only thing that might help are chain resets so only active officers would join commanders back.. and all the inactive accounts will die .. To my eyes, u become great once u manage to defeat those high ranked players.. if u dont, then u dont deserve that rank..

U dont become great cuz the higher player left.. u become great cuz u are stronger than the guy ahead of u

Donkey
20th February 2005, 09:38 AM
I would agree that the chains should be reset for the top people, cause for one, most of the people in it probably dont even play or are just fake accounts through the chain. This way they would have to regain recruits rather then just starting out with all of them right in the begining

bytertje
20th February 2005, 09:39 AM
I get high enough, trust me. thats really not the problem. But it would be nice if everybody stands a fair chance of reaching a high(er) rank instead of having the advantage to be high ranked the ages before with the result of even more people joining under you.

now tell me, why are all of you guys bothered with leveling up the scores? and why do i hear none of you talking about fairplay and only talking about "they deserve it", and "they shouldn't be deleted". seems like you all are afraid of having the same chances as the rest of the players.

Zap
20th February 2005, 09:45 AM
everybody have a fair chance in KoC, nobody is keeping you away from doing the same thing the high ranked players have done, they have a head start and thats it.

if you want to be the best, act like the best, do the best, work hard from am to pm

besides, deleting the top 10 players wouldn't solve the problem, the players who are about to be deleted will leave a note to their officers that he/she will be back under the name bla bla bla and his/her officers will rejoin them again just like they planned a week before age ends

mutherm
20th February 2005, 10:30 AM
that was the stupidest idea ive ever heard.. no offense!! lol

Arghhhh_SaD
20th February 2005, 10:57 AM
This really isn't any idea to dicuss :P It would never ever have happened anyways. Also like Zap says, the chain would have stayed intact. All the active members are at a forum where you can reach them. So all you have to do is to send a mass e-mail to them. Then they will join the next age.

You can't break a chain by deleting its head commander. Besides the 2000 officers of Denny isn't that important. Like 1700 of them probably havn't done much for him considering that they havn't clicked a link.

I've read a saying from denny where he explained that the original plan was that he should only have like 30-40 officers. The rest just joined him since he was #1 :p

Anyway, worst suggestion I've ever heard :p

maggot
20th February 2005, 10:57 AM
omg what a stupid suggestion is this :s

People who got top 10 deserve it and so be it!
Besides: not everyone is playing to get #1

I won't spend much time on this topic cuz it's just one of stupid ideas I have ever heard!

bytertje
20th February 2005, 11:02 AM
omg what a stupid suggestion is this :s

People who got top 10 deserve it and so be it!
Besides: not everyone is playing to get #1

I won't spend much time on this topic cuz it's just one of stupid ideas I have ever heard!

omg you really can't read, can you?

read my last post, just for fun. thats where i describe people like you with the stupid thougt about deserving it.

nobody deserves it. new age new chances. and now back to the more intelligent replys please

Paulydee
20th February 2005, 11:46 AM
I think that not deleting them, but resetting chains would be a good idea.

I know it wouldn't get rid of their main officers, but it would get rid of the people who have just joined the person because of their rank. This would reduce the officers down to the sort of number that Denny wants.

And I expect you will say that this wont affect him much. But he has a good 1000, probably more, officers that would now not have a commander, and not join back. This would also be helped if the top players changed their names. These 1000 officers gave Denny around, 50,000 men, I believe, if they had an average of 100 men each. And thats not the end of it. Think of all the sub-officers that would leave! Denny's army would still be strong, and probably top, definitely near the top, but not because he had got near the top and people had joined him, because of his alliance.

Denny deserves what he had in age 3, but age 4 is a new start, a new beginning, where everyone is put back on a level playing field. But the officers who just joined Denny because he was strong in age 3 give Denny a huge advantage. He worked hard and got these people in age 3. But just to make the game a bit fairer, resetting command chains would also be nice.

Lor20_RJ
20th February 2005, 12:02 PM
denny is creating a new account anyways next age so he doesnt have all those officers that just joined him cuz he was number one...
I have made a new account every age baceuse of commandchainarrangements... seeing as i was top ten the last three ages you can easily see that your plan wouldnt do anything. you get 95% of your soldiers from your top 5% officers (for ppl in the top 10 anyways) and those 5% would rejoin you anyways.
There is no point. only possible thing would be to remove all commandchainbonds but that'd be utterly chaotic and a lot of ppl would get commanders they arent happy with
Not a good idea imo
Lor20

STARBLASTER
20th February 2005, 06:58 PM
Wimbledon.
Does the last winner start with a 2 set advantage in every game ?

Golf.
Does Tiger Woods start every game at the 18th hole already 10 under par ?

Get real. KOC is a game and it should be played like any other game.

Neomackenzie
20th February 2005, 07:00 PM
Wimbledon.
Does the last winner start with a 2 set advantage in every game ?

Golf.
Does Tiger Woods start every game at the 18th hole already 10 under par ?

Get real. KOC is a game and it should be played like any other game.

Football (soccer)
Real Madrid wins the Champions League and gets tons of money for it... do they have to give it back the next season? What now if they bough new players with the money? Do they have to ditch their players?

bytertje
20th February 2005, 07:07 PM
Even if real bought those players and win that much they can never use al the players.
And as you are familiar with soccer you should be familiar with the fact that a soccerteam is only allowed a certain amount of players and has to sell the rest.
and even if that wasn't the case they had to sell because of the high cost.

What we could also do is give commanders the chance to keep their officers by buying them back. every officer is gonna kost 100 million to buy back. in that case they won't have a to big advantage and still can get the officers that some people claim they "deserve"

fair enough right ?

Jorus_Cbaoth
20th February 2005, 07:12 PM
Here is a thought... Why dont people spend as much time building their own army as they do trying to come up with ways to punish the top players? Maybe then you would BE a top player!!

In sports the champion doesnt have to cut every player on their roster before the start of the next season, why should we have to do that here? Quit trying to make it easy to be lazy. Quit trying to put the blame for your own inadequacy on other people. Get your rear in gear and WORK for a top spot!

bytertje
20th February 2005, 07:20 PM
wanna bet i spend more time online then anyone else in this thread ?

It's not that i wanna punnish big players! i just wanna balance out the game so everyone stands a fair chance. Just mark my words, if the creators don't do anything to this in age 10 page 1 will look pretty much the same as now in exception of maybe 15 players.

CLOUD
20th February 2005, 07:24 PM
It's not that i wanna punnish big players! i just wanna balance out the game so everyone stands a fair chance. Just mark my words, if the creators don't do anything to this in age 10 page 1 will look pretty much the same as now in exception of maybe 15 players.

I know that was sarcasm, but it was pretty bad; if KoC is around in 3-4 years, and everyone in the top 50 is still playing there will always be big moves in command chains and big wars that shift ranks. Has the same account won two ages? I may be wrong, but i think not..

bytertje
20th February 2005, 07:30 PM
No that didn't happen YET!

you want to wait till it happens? i don't think so. And the way its going right now it's not going to take to long to happen.
Seen how far lord striker came this round ? pretty close to the first rank.
Then it would be 2 times in a row.

TheGodFather_LaCN
20th February 2005, 07:35 PM
I can give you a little estimate on what it took me to get a top 5 account (and if BigBad, the real one had played that account all age i would end 6). I started age2 in late november 2003, i was the offiser of an online mate and i had non offisers and finished rank #114. I missed out the first 3 weeks of age3 beta but started with my previous commander as an offiser. At first i spent countless of hours clicking, i noticed that wasnt enough so istarted to try to recruit spended yet another countless ammount on hours helping people on msn and irc. At that time we had an alliance called DLOC, it was a first time test and try and failiure project lols. But we learnt enough from that project to start La Cosa Nostra during age3 beta. On average in beta i used aprox 2-3 hours clicking average pr day, helping and talking with people on msn/irc 2-3 hours per day and doing forum work and other alliance tasks 2-3 hours a day, not to mention i had to get up every 1-2 hours to spend with alarmclock running. It totaly killed my sleeping habbits but well it was vacation and bad weather...
I finished age3 beta ranked #12 with 75 offisers. Infront of age3 i made a new account under Lor20_RJ and my offisers signed up there, of all the actives of those 75 i had resigned up under me or some of my other offisers. But i think like 25% of those actually played age3. The last 2 weeks of beta me and my co-leaders spent countless of ours recruiting new players into LaCosaNostra chain, but we had during age already invited a lot of players to join us(not chain wise but just into the alliance). At start of of age 3 for the first 2 weeks me and AngelofDeath_LaCN used aprox 20 hours on koc every day, clicking, approving, msn, forum, helping etc. After that when our 2 other coleaders came back we reduced it to 10 hours and during mid age we were down into 5 hours +/- per day. Being big and high ranked as in top 10 means u need ure own alliance or at least good offisers u cant get there alone no matther how many hours you click. Communicating and keeping bigger alliances happy is a hard, you will never be able to keep 100% members happy there will always be issues. If you want their loyalty u gotta show ure own dedication and work as hard and inmost cases harder than them. You don't know who gonna be the next Denny or LS so u better take care of all of urs that shows interests and willigness to learn the game. So if you still think its fair that we should remake just cuz we worked our asses toget to top 10 well i dont mind i know those i care about would join me again anyways, and it would prove Lor's point that u get 99% of ure men from ure 5% best offisers. But while others are out drinking beer, we were helping our alliance, clicking and spending.....

Yeah i know, u can call me that, Geek! Cuz infact thats what i really been in the timespan of age3... Koc Geeky P:

Jorus_Cbaoth
20th February 2005, 07:36 PM
Last year the New England Patriots won the Super Bowl. They won it the year before too. Should they now be forced to cut every single player on their team so thet the Raiders have a better chance to win next year? Should the Eagles also have to cut their roster for finishing 2nd?

Again, this is just like countless other suggestions that get posted in here that all come down to the same basic point. Punish the top players so its easier for the little guys who dont work as hard to get better ranks. Im sorry but no.

bytertje
20th February 2005, 07:46 PM
I'm not calling you a geeck, not at all!
Actually i'm in the same clan as you, better yet i am the number 2 officer of 1 of your best officers.
But it's just like you told in your story, the persons you took good care of will join under you again.
But what happens to al the other ones ?
They probably won't. And people like denny or ls just have to much officers to take GOOD care of. So the effect would be that the people who really did busted their balls off wil stil have a little advantage .
But trust me out of the over 2000 officers denny, ls and others have only a maximum of 25 will be left wich will make a big different. if you only take a everage of 10 man per officer per day that would make a difference of over 20 000 man a day. And 10 man per officer really is nothing you know.

And would ya guys please stop comparing this with multibillion sportgames !
Trust me, if i gave rocky 50 million i would won every age !
Thats the difference between sportgames and this game, sportgames are al about the money

STARBLASTER
20th February 2005, 07:52 PM
Set up a secondary KOC game.
Completely internalised.
No external recruitment at all.
All single armies and buddies ( not chains of command ).
A payment of say $5.00 to participate in a six month age.
The rough math.
20 top clans with 2000 officers each = 40,000
That leaves about 100,000 players who might like to
go it alone ( or with buddies ) rather than have to ride on the shirt tales
of a high ranking clan.
PLUS all the visitors who never joined up or deleted accounts
once they realised that, in it's present form, KOC has become
a top 20 clan war with no chance for individuals.
There's $500k plus advertising revenue.

Godfather ??
"At first i spent countless of hours clicking, i noticed that wasnt enough"
Is this some kind of skillful tactic ??
You have rather skillfully pointed out one of the reasons most single
players don't like the present format.
Aren't clicks supposed to come from unique visitors ??
KOC ( Kings Of Clicking ??? )

xix_xix
20th February 2005, 08:17 PM
? bytertje Denny / lordstriker etc dont spend their time sifting through their officers list clicking on their links??

Use a clicker? there is loads of them about. The rogue clicker or the SC clicker both give good results.

*its automated program that allowes you to click around 10 links every min, for every link u click u get 1 credit, the more credits you have the more times your link gets clicked.

Dont waste your time manually clicking links. Then maybe you will achieve a higher rating.

(knowing how to play the game helps to, there is far more to the game than just getting men, you have to know what to do with them)

I say fair play to denny+ Lord striker + all the other top 1000 players, they work damn hard for it!! spend hours a day playing the game, so what u r suggesting seems a bit harsh.

If you work hard like them, maybee in 4 ages time (what they have done) you will have ammased a chain to rival them.

neirod
20th February 2005, 08:24 PM
Maybe it IS a good idea to delete the chains of command at the start of a new age.

If you where a good commander the age before, officers WILL join you again in the new age. So all the efford the top players made to get this impressive army is not lost, they will only get rid of the officers that joined because the were top players.

If they deserve it, like you all are sayin, there is no problem at all.
I think it would balance thing out a bit, without really punishing players who worked hard for their army.

And if your thousands :biggrin: of officers stay away from you the new age, maybe you weren't such a good commander... :frusty:

bytertje
20th February 2005, 08:32 PM
Oke here we go again, i'll keep it clean this time! as you can see i had my 1st warning already and don't want another one.

It's not the time you spend, trust me if that was it i would be ranked top 25, it isn't tactics either with that i would also be ranked top 25.

It's al about having the advantage of joining you because of the high rank you achieved the age before.

I already use recruiters but do you really think i or anyone else that has a normal rank and normal chain can compete whit someone that has 500 officers using recruiters that deliver 800 man a day? that means 400 000 man total. 50% of that is for the commander so that would be about 200 000 man. still think you can compete with that if you are 24/7 bussy with koc?


I've been watching last age at the progress of some players. wanna know how fast denny develloped ?
in the first 30 minutes he had already 9500 man. Now tell me, still confonced anyone can compete with that if they play fair ?

TheGodFather_LaCN
20th February 2005, 08:33 PM
Hence i called myself Geek never said u said it. But its what my friends say/would say lol ;-)

Ps gotta add i noticed and knows u joined iron, and i already have clicked ure chain the links iron gave melike 20 x since you joined P: But i guess that gonna be way more times next age. One thing about letting the chains stay is the strategy now that we will have 2 commander switches and can tune our chains during the age...

Garilore
20th February 2005, 08:48 PM
Um, I'm a newcomer to the GUA forum, so please forgive me if I step on any toes.

I'd like to put this discussion into perspective: it's a game. It's just a game. I play purely for the few minutes of distraction it gives me every day. Those who persistently make the top ranks, well, all I can say is, "My,my ain't that nice." In the long run, KOC doesn't pay my bills, wash my dog, or even put food on the table. It's entertainment. However, if someone wants to spend prodigious amounts of time recruiting people, then I guess in that sense they have "earned" and "deserve" their high rank. I am satisfied with my rank. I didn't go digging for officers, I didn't try to get around the rules (or does the Rogue clicker count?), and I didn't work the flaw in the programming to be one of those *&%%^)*! sab accounts! But that's another forum.

Friends, lighten up. It's a game. :wedgie:

bytertje
20th February 2005, 08:52 PM
Look, i play at a desent rate, have a normal ranking about 1600. My main target is to get my officers up and running to the top.
An impossible target with the current system.
I'm not gonna denie i have advantages bij mij chain. i've got plenty advantages but thats because i help my chain. just like godfather. on the other hand i wouldn't mind if they reseted me because i know my officers will be back. everybody thats screaming it would be so unfair isn't confinsed he is helping his chain so good they remain under him. most people under lord striker and denny would never join him again, they only joined because of the high ranking. and thats my point. the only way to prevent this from happening is deleting top 10 accounts every age. this way everybody stands a fair chance again. and if you really helped out your officers good they will join you again. the officers that join you again you can fairly say you deserved them al the people that don't join you again you do not deserve.

pretty fair?

neirod
20th February 2005, 08:59 PM
If you're a new player, it isn't very clear what the (dis-)advantage of commanders and officers could be.

If it would be more clear, people wouldn't join high ranked players becouse of their rank, they would choose more carefully (I would)

chains are to massive I think

STARBLASTER
20th February 2005, 09:08 PM
For me it all boils down to this clicking thing.
It appears that in principle each click on a unique link
should be coming from individuals and not a single person
clicking away furiously.
It's the entire basis of selling advertising.
I advertise with google ad-words.
If I thought for one second that most of my click throughs were
coming from some fool mindlessly clicking on my ad then I would
drop my advertising campaign immediately.
Recruiters and auto clickers et al have the potential to destroy
KOC credibility as an advertising medium.
All the offers I received to join clans were juiced up with offers of
'many' men. I will play on on ( idea ).
WHY NOT..... have separate rankings for solo armies.
( probably get squished by a clan but what the hey ).
If I step onto a tennis court with Leyton Hewitt then I know
I can't win but we will both start off with just one tennis raquet.
I will be beaten by skill.
Byterje
Why not reset 'everything' with a new age.
All chains of command.
Those who want to rejoin their commanders will and
those who don't wont.
Far more interesting and equitable.
I will go solo anyway.

bytertje
20th February 2005, 09:23 PM
resetting everything is fine by me, but i don't think that idea will stand much of a chance as over 10 000 people have an officer :P.

resetting the top 10 or maybe 50 should solve the problems pretty much.
but if the gamedevelopers want to reset the complete game you've got my blessings.

STARBLASTER
20th February 2005, 09:27 PM
This way no one could complain about being singled out.
Skill will always shine through.

Jorus_Cbaoth
20th February 2005, 09:54 PM
Guys, you are still skirting around the same basic point. Deleting the command chains of the top players is only going to delay them by a few seconds. If people want their commander back then they will have him. Resetting the command chain isn't going to stop it.

There is no effective way of stopping the large chains from dominating the game that is fair to all the players. You cannot punish the top guys for the work that they have done in the past. Its not like a draft where everyone will pick from the pool of officers who have been dropped in the wipe of the chains. The officers choose their own commander and if someone wants Denny for his commander he will have him. Wiping out the chain wont change that.

bytertje
20th February 2005, 10:00 PM
Please jorus, please just read before you respond man.
i've said it in about 5 messages already how difficukt is it to read carefully.

people only join a commander again if he was really helpfull. and seen the fact a day has only 24 hours a normal person can only be really helpfull to about 50 people maybe 100. that means that a commandchain like denny's would be reduced with about 2000 officers wich makes a verry big difference.

It doesn't matter you don't agree but just don't try to tell me it wouldn't work. simple math just tells it does work bigtime. nothing you can change about that.

the only thing thats discussable about it is if it is fair ?

TapaGeuR
20th February 2005, 10:07 PM
Here's an idea that ocured to me. Why not delete the top 10 players accounts every age on the end.
The thing we see now is that players like denny,lord striker etc etc have about 2000 officers or more. If we delete them after a round being top 10 ranked you have about 4000 to 10 000 potential new winners instead of every age having the same people top ranked.
i think it would make the game nicer to play. this way everyone stands a chance of winning. if you took the chance and got to the top 10 you're starting al over again.

how about it?You just have to ignore the top 10 players and start looking at 11!

TapaGeuR

STARBLASTER
20th February 2005, 10:18 PM
Let's face it, the solo player lives in fear of mass attacks.
The obvious choice for a commander is one of the top 20.
Age 4 may see a shift in allegiances though.
If say, an army is copping mass attacks and the commander ends up doing squat there is now the option to dump commanders twice in an age.
The larger the clan the less responsive they are to their minions' plights.
As much as I would like to see a complete resetting it seems to me that Age 4 will see a shake up in the present heirarchy.
There could be mass movements to and from various clans.

dweepy
20th February 2005, 11:31 PM
Bytertje,

I totaly agree! Delete the top 10 players when starting a new age.
This way everybody has equal chances & the ones working the hardest will be rewarded!

Dweepy

Presence
20th February 2005, 11:33 PM
here's a crazy. but easier thought. Howabout we just reset the officers of everybody. That way, there can be no OH THAT's NOT FAIR AND SUCH. - note i did read all the other stuff, but no one seems to have really addressed this -

However, why would you need to reset everyone's officers. I made it fine through KoC with only like 2 officers. the other 6 i gained because they were farming me or mass attacking me. So i messaged them, talked to them, then suddenly i have a new officer.

I do admit, sometimes officers can make the difference, but once you hit page 1, just about everybody has thousands of officers. If you want to make it fair, please don't quote me on this then i suggest you go sab all their officers and message EVERY SINGLE ONE That if they don't leave Denny or Lordstriker or whomever u want then you will continnue. Im sure you'll make them lose a few officers that way.

To be entirely truthful, though it may anger you, i think the idea of only resetting the top 50 players is pretty stupid. It should be either all or none. No one should get special treatment (that can be good or bad) just because they're ranked #1. If they're there, they are there for a reason. And just because you were not able to achieve it does not mean they should be reset, and you should not be.

Although it is true that players may make someone their commander just because they want to intimidate others. To me. i don't look at commanders. If they bug me, i sab them commander or not.

However, sometimes the commanders do help. Stalker for example takes care of his chain very nicely. Although im pretty sure he did not go around asking everybody to be his officer, he still has quite a few. And i know from personal experience that if you bug him or his officers , or even his chain, he will turn them all against you.

Officers sometimes make the commander more disturbed with constant requests. Officers do not make the commander. the person who sits at the computer for hours a day and is able to recruit officers and build up his armies and to do all of this. That is what makes a good commander

Wesley Flashinpon
20th February 2005, 11:33 PM
Pff, anyone who says "delete the top accounts" is some kinda democrat. "They did better so they should have to pay more taxes" "Microsoft did well let's sue em" etc etc....

Meantime, start Age IV, I'm running out of Pringles!

bytertje
20th February 2005, 11:40 PM
Yeah wesley you really thougt that one over. come on man. give some usefull backfeed or just shut up. take presence for example, he explains his backfeed verry well. and although i don't agree with everyting i like his backfeed better then the ones that say :

yeah let's do that

or:

no lets don't

don't post stuff like that. explain yourself or just shut up

Presence
20th February 2005, 11:56 PM
Yeah wesley you really thougt that one over. come on man. give some usefull backfeed or just shut up. take presence for example, he explains his backfeed verry well. and although i don't agree with everyting i like his backfeed better then the ones that say :

yeah let's do that

or:

no lets don't

don't post stuff like that. explain yourself or just shut up

I do thank you sir, I guess Speech & Debate for 1 year does help ^__^.
But, i'd like to ask you a question, Why is it that you are so intent on having top ten players reset?
As many others have said, it would not make that big of a difference because i am pretty sure Denny does not click every single one of his officers hats off to him if he does . Also, like many alliances, he must have forums where he could easily announce his next age's account name and for those who are still loyal to him to join under him again.

Another thing i would like to point out is that Denny originally did not have almost 2000 officers. He had to work had to get to Rank #1. After that, people flocked to join under him BECAUSE HE WAS #1. Although i find this extremely stupid, Denny could do nothing about it. Although i am sure he did not complain, because he does get massive amounts of men from them.

However, as others have said, his Top 5% officers give him the most men, and i entirely agree with that. without my officer, Drag0nC0mmand3r , i would not have had more than 200 men probably. However, because he loves his recruiters and such, he boosted me up to thousands of men, without me even asking for it. Although it is possible for the other officers to get men for me, the majority came from Drag0nC0mmand3r.

Next age, let us all watch and not argue.
Whomever is Ranked #1, just watch his officers. Will we not notice the same pattern of sheep flocking to join under the stronger pastor? (or in this case, weaklings trying to make themselves look good).

Also another thing i would like to ask is, Would it hurt you, if your chain was reset and / or your account was deleted?

Thank you.

To Wesley.

I do not think that whether someone is a democrat or a republican has anything to do with wanting to reset the account and / or command chain of somebody.
I agree with bytertje . You should either explain your points, or not bother to make a post at all. Because not only do you make yourself look dumb, it also seems to have the effect of forcing topics to go off topic. then we have to bring mods in to clear things up.. Why can we not just have a friendly debate. I cannot force you to do anything at all, however i would like for you to at least try and think. before you say.

again:

THINK BEFORE YOU SAY

o yes, and another note to bytertje.
it has been my experience that those who tend to continually cuss with or at people replying to topics created by me (to me this includes telling people to shutup) , or somebody else. Well people don't take them seriously, and then they tend to get cussed out. Just giving friendly advice to people here. If you explain your thoughts thoroughly and thoughtfully, then people may be able to present their views in a dignified manner. Without forcing a flame war.

Gnite Everybody. Good Luck in Age 4.

bytertje
21st February 2005, 12:10 AM
Let me be carefull now with my words before sending out the wrong message.

The reason i think it would be best to reset or delete the top ten accounts is actually a variety of reasons.

1: these players already had the advantage of having a big chain under them for 1 age why keep extending this?
2: if the commander is really that good for his officers they'll probably get back under him. ( don't think a lot of them do, 100 at most)
3: it gives about 10 000 direct officers a chance to be potential winners

then your other question:would it hurt me if it happened to me?

not really i guess, i only maintain a commandchain of about 20 officers wich are verry happy with me and would join me again instantly. but with that experience i know it shouldn't have been more then 50 or else my quality as a commander would not really show to everybody

Presence
21st February 2005, 12:17 AM
Let me be carefull now with my words before sending out the wrong message.

The reason i think it would be best to reset or delete the top ten accounts is actually a variety of reasons.

1: these players already had the advantage of having a big chain under them for 1 age why keep extending this?
2: if the commander is really that good for his officers they'll probably get back under him. ( don't think a lot of them do, 100 at most)
3: it gives about 10 000 direct officers a chance to be potential winners

then your other question:would it hurt me if it happened to me?

not really i guess, i only maintain a commandchain of about 20 officers wich are verry happy with me and would join me again instantly. but with that experience i know it shouldn't have been more then 50 or else my quality as a commander would not really show to everybody

1: these players already had the advantage of having a big chain under them for 1 age why keep extending this?

Hrm... this is a very good point of which i am speechless. They have had a massive command chain and the benefits of it. However, many have also had the benefits of massive command chains. So it cannot be restricted only to the top 10 players. Apparently, the Top 10 players must have had some sort of skill at least to have achieved that rank. However, the massive command chain part still does bug me.. i must think more and i'll bring it back up 2morrow maybe ^__^

2: if the commander is really that good for his officers they'll probably get back under him. ( don't think a lot of them do, 100 at most)

Well... im good to all my officers, though i only have 8 so im pretty sure they will rejoin me. However, i do know how it feels to have a commander of whom constantly ignores you and you are right. i would not rejoin if a commander did not hear my requests ( that was why i ditched my old commander in the first place ^______^ )

3: it gives about 10 000 direct officers a chance to be potential winners

uh... it gives about 140,000 people a chance to be potential winners ^__^!! lol.
orgasm.

You have very strong points. if only people could reply in a dignified manner then yah.. o.o we should bring this up with the koc creators. maybe if we're lucky, the command chains for everybody will be reset for age 5. ^__^

deathwish11
21st February 2005, 12:20 AM
Hmm, I'm not sure whether I agree with deleting officers or not, but here's an idea. Make a limit on how many officers a player can have. For example 50. Then that officer only has to deal with 50 people under him and it gives him a chance to be a better commander. But at the same time, that's lame because the main reason KOC has officers is to get commanders a reason to get as many people to join the game and play as possible.

But I think if you want a game that's fair for both the players that have a long list of officers and the players who don't have any officers at all... Go and play Rise Of Tyrants @ http://www.riseoftryants.com You can become a top player even without having a single officer.

Anyways, I don't mind the top players being able to do that. I think anyone has the ability to get up that high and compete with them if they try hard enough. Maybe bug every single one of the top players commander to leave them and join you?

Anyways, good luck in Age 4. Going to start in the next few minutes if it hasn't already.

P.S. I read every single post on this topic before posting.

-deathwish11

bytertje
21st February 2005, 12:22 AM
Maybe some people have some extra suggestions to improve it. I'm not saying it's the masterplan but i know it's a pretty good plan.
so keep posting replys ( with usable feedback)
and maybe we can figure this problem out together

JustME
21st February 2005, 08:32 AM
Put simply, a limit must be imposed. The deletion theory would not work, because it would simply be a matter of reactivating and shuffling people one time.

However. At this point, we see that age 4 has officially been running for 8 hours. If you look on page 1, you will see that Denny is back to number 1, with almost 15k troops, and LS is number 2, with almost 12k troops. By this point in age 3, almost 100k people had registered, now for age 4, less than 40k have registered. The reason? The structure allows no chance for anyone other than figureheads to have a chance. None at all. People are not so inherently masochistic as to continue beating their heads against a wall, as they are in this game. No one repeatedly runs a race they know they have no hope of winning for anything other than pride, and that too, is faltering. What you are seeing now is the KoC admins taking examples from another online game, which shall of course remain nameless, but they failed to take the most important one, that is, a limited click structure. This game is going down fast, and if the admins don't patch the holes soon, it will never recover.

Zap
21st February 2005, 09:18 AM
this thread seems to be very active :P

but as for the improvements for this suggestion, I can only suggest what the many top ranked players have wished for a long time is features like, max number of officers, ditch officer, approve officer and redirect their officers down in the chain

Soul-Caliber
21st February 2005, 12:56 PM
bad idea not fair on denny, or lor.... wat i thought wasnt fair was the changing of denny's name people that wanted to stay under him had to waste one commander change..... not fair... but it was nice for Lor to get Denny as a commander tho :P

Xer0n
21st February 2005, 02:43 PM
what a dumb selfish suggetion... those players have worked really hard to get so good accounts.. deleting their account is just not right

JustME
21st February 2005, 03:27 PM
It's not a dumb suggestion, it's a dumb system, there's a difference. The suggestion comes out of the frustration every single player who does not suck up to the right people or join the right alliance feels, in that they will never win anything. Less than 60k registered in an almost complete day. You do the math. It's dying hard and fast, because the system is bad.

bytertje
21st February 2005, 05:17 PM
Oke now,

people please calm down. again, if you think it's a bad idea that's fine by me.
But please put some feedback in your posts.
People yelling that they deserve it isn't really giving feedback. give us something to work with. We all have heard they deserved it now. because they put so much effort in the last age, but may i remind you that this is the new age and that no-one deserved anything yet ?

And Xeron could you please explain to me what is so selfish about posting something that probably over 10k players want and what less than 500 players don't want?
If you looked at it objectively you would have screamed that the top ranked players that are doing everything to didge these kind of suggestions are selfish.

Primenal
21st February 2005, 07:37 PM
Why don't everybodies commanders get deleted? I don't care if your ranked #1, or #1 million. Everybody gets deleted, has to restart COMPLETELY over. Why isn't that fair? A new age begins a new beginning. How is there a new beginning if people still can have the same commanders?
Of course there going to get back on top AGAIN. Nobody stands a chance! There is no newbie on here that could come on the first day a new age begins, and work there way completely up to the top. there's nobody with *some* experience that could even come close.

Astaire
22nd February 2005, 03:40 PM
Less than 60k registered in an almost complete day. You do the math. It's dying hard and fast, because the system is bad.

lol, no offense, but that's an incredibly ignorant statement. 60k registering in a 24-hour radius means that almost half the people in KoC check their account every day. That's pretty successful if you want to ask me. More will come, but a LOT(And I daresay even the majority) of people do NOT check their accounts about 50-60 times a week like me or possibly you.

Fett's Vette
22nd February 2005, 09:57 PM
I agree with this. Yes, these players worked hard. And there reward was doing well in the age they worked so hard in. When a new age roles around you should have to start completely from scratch. I think this should be implemented for everyone, not just the top players.

Wesley Flashinpon
22nd February 2005, 10:32 PM
Yeah wesley you really thougt that one over. come on man. give some usefull backfeed or just shut up. take presence for example, he explains his backfeed verry well. and although i don't agree with everyting i like his backfeed better then the ones that say :

yeah let's do that

or:

no lets don't

don't post stuff like that. explain yourself or just shut up

what didn't you like about my post? I said I didn't like it and that it sounded like something a democrat (read:liberal) would say. You either have to A. delete for all or B. delete for none. Singling people out for penalty because they did well is stupid.

P.S. (I musta hit a nerve with that democrat line)

Presence
22nd February 2005, 10:58 PM
The thing we are debating here should be altered to resetting everybody to have no commanders, as well as no armory and no soldiers.

Everyone should start out fresh.

Here's another add-on idea.

Would it be better if to JOIN a commander, you must first either receive / request a special invitation from them to join you. Now that would weed out all those people who join under someone just "because". (i.e. the noobs who just join under Player Rank #1 because the player is ranked #1.)

The link, is like a special invite, however the fact that we can just change our commanders at the click of a button, and the typing of a sentence also sort of ruins the system. If a commander had to send an invitation to the person first, then that would make it so that they actually had to work a BIT harder for their officers and not just mass message everybody stating that they [" The commander "] would like for them [" The Recruit "] to join under them. Not only that, but also implement the image verification things so that auto messagers cannot be used to do this as well.

Whenever i get an invite from somebody to join their chain, i always scan it for any actual human emotion or human customization in it. Sort of like a special uniqueness. Most of the time, i just toss them anywayz.

Officers are a blessing, and to get them, you should have to actually work for them. Especially when the new age starts.

However, Denny has also showed us something else.
if im not mistaken, he has like what? 200 or so officers?
and YET last time i checked, LordStriker had like 1000+.

And yet still... Denny is ranked #2. Out of all those people. Does this not show that Denny demonstrates a unique skill / strategy to the game? Officers are not entirely everything, however it would make it a little more fair and make it seem like a fresher start if everyone had to start out with none and all the officers had to be invited back by the commander. That would also make things more interesting ^__^ and semi- more fair.

thanks for reading my long ass reply. ^___^

Did you like this well-thought out reply? if not, i don't care.
if so,
i don't care either.
USELESS PART:
Just try and do things like this. Explain your position and maybe people will reply in a dignified manner to your post. Flame, and you will just be ignored or flamed back... then the mods will warn you.. and yadda yadda yadda... SEX ^__^ <3 bye.

Denny
23rd February 2005, 05:50 AM
For your information: I started a new account at the start of this Age, specifically to get rid of all the unknown and uninvited officers who joined me in Age 3. Unfortunately as there is no officer approval system yet, many new officers have rejoined me already - but at least I did my best to start out fair, with only the officers who I personally know and talk to online every day.

By the way, have a look at the suggestions I made in my thread 'some thoughts about command chains' - you might like some of them.

Blitz
23rd February 2005, 06:07 AM
The main reason the chains were kept intact over the age was so that everyone could simply arrange their chain ahead of time, and not have to start new accounts by using the unique link system. Many chains go down multiple tiers, and odds are unlikely that all major players will be online 24/7.

(Plus, people don't like wasting commander changes.)

I do agree with Denny on the "Officer Approval" and his decision to start with a fresh account. Personally, I've gotten four uninvited officers, and I'm glad to have 3 of them. But the last has some officers with incredibly similar names...

Aside from that, I think it's a commander's duty to only take on as many officers as he/she can reasonably handle. No one can handle 2000 officers. An "Accept Officer" or "Ditch Officer" button would make it a lot simpler for commanders to control their officers.

Final Note: It's the quality, not the quantity, of officers that matters.

cool_dude_53
4th March 2005, 07:52 PM
i agree i think you should have a ditch officer and accept officer button that means somebody joins you and you dont want them you ditch them

Coldskier
6th March 2005, 12:13 AM
By the way, have a look at the suggestions I made in my thread 'some thoughts about command chains' - you might like some of them.
does it involve how to lead an alliance by exploiting your officers coding abilities and not actually doing anything yourself? :wink:

i think that this would fail becuase all the top ten are in clans and they could rally their previous officers too them and if they stick with the same name people will join them anyway, the top ten do NO recruiting themselves it is all their subsubsubsub officers and noobs joing becuase they have a good rank

Laudimir
6th March 2005, 10:06 PM
Even if the top 10 don't recruit their officers, they recruited their primary clan officers. I think they did work their butts off...and, I have a lot of respect for Denny just because he reset his account. If any deletion of command chains occurr, it must occurr to all; if we are striving for some kind of game balance, then that would overset it. I want the game to be FAIR, not skewed in the direction of the n00bs just because they can't hang out with the big dogs! <btw, I'm one of those n00bs>