PDA

View Full Version : Can Energy or Vital Force be consider a Elemental?



Mihael
19th February 2005, 03:30 PM
Ok ive been giving this a lot of thought and i believe that Energy can be separeted from all the Elements but also depends on them cause it is a consequence of their (Elements) action.

Fire can produce energy from its heat, wind can also produce energy well all of the elements produce energy. People and all of the living things have a so called "Vital Force". Its in the individual ability to use it to his own benefit, it involves strengh and high levels of concentration to be able to use it.

Like i said to Ace_of_Spades, Chi for the Chinese, Ki for the Japanese and Prana for the Indians is the belief that a person can use their Live Force in order to afect material things, one can manipulate it and expand it. Its a invisible force however cause it cannot be seen or touched but it can "touch" and be "felt" by other living organisms.

It is a result of mind concentration and gathering of energy held inside each one. It can also gather live force from living things such as plants, trees, animals, humans and in this case other races, materials, water, fire and specially earth.

Nevertheless it can be in a specific Element since all of them use "its" energy in its own way, but not its "Vital Energy" i believe it can be separeted from them and how i'll explain:

Bio for example can alter genetic structure allowing to mold one's form, it can also extract molecules and change it, etc..but it cannot extract its own essence, its vital energy in order to use it.

Wind per se has no interaction what so ever in energy as a single form, wind can only apply force to another object to create energy, Wind is created by atmospheric pressions, so it is created from a different kind of energy and produces energy, but IT isn't Energy.

Fire originally its in a state called plasma, it has energy and also can create it but cannot wield it for its own purpose.

Earth is the Element that possesses more energy then any order for it has the most variety of living things but still i cant use its own vital force.

This is only some examples for my perspective of Energy or Vital Force, regarding the Elements that already exist and explainning why i think it could be separeted from them.

In terms of char's, one could use its own energy to affect others, and create its own spells and also use the Vital Force of living things and innanimated objects that exist in the surroundings. Although innanimated objects still have Energy of their own they have much less than a living one.

The char that uses its Vital Force can also manipulate its power to increase its physicall abilities and strengh or use the energy around him to do so.

In hope to see if its possible to be accepted and/or approved according to BA standarts i expect opinions in this matter by all RP'ers.

MichelD
19th February 2005, 04:24 PM
Have you taken a look at the spirit guide in this same forum? I would say that the 'vital force' you are mentioning here is completely covered in that guide.

Marushia
19th February 2005, 06:54 PM
Actually, I use the same energy principles for a lot of the characters I make. Really, energy is what links all the elements together. To master it is to master all the elements, essentially. For instance, I can RP someone who uses energy to control wind, water, fire, earth, bio, or lightning. Light, dark, and spirit are a bit harder, but they rely on different types of energy. (I hope I didn't leave any out.)

Eventually, when I create my manga, that'll all be explained (one of the reasons I decided to make it in the first place was to explain how real people could, given sufficient time and training, pull off all these techniques).

So, rather than be its own element, energy is already a major part of all the other ones.


Wind per se has no interaction what so ever in energy as a single form, wind can only apply force to another object to create energy, Wind is created by atmospheric pressions, so it is created from a different kind of energy and produces energy, but IT isn't Energy.

*Cough*Ahem*Cough*

Read the thread I made concerning wind.

Mihael
19th February 2005, 08:30 PM
I didn't read your thread but here's what I know:

- wind is created from energy
- wind can create energy
- wind contains aeolic energy

but wind, in itself, is not energy. If you kick a football, it will move and knock something out: its motion started with an impulse (energy) and, as a consequence, it gained enough balance (energy) to have a direct efect on something else. Just like the wind, it only carried energy from place A to place B. Wind is nothing more than air transporting aeolic energy.

So, like I said before, it AIN'T energy.

Regarding what MichelID wrote:


Have you taken a look at the spirit guide in this same forum? I would say that the 'vital force' you are mentioning here is completely covered in that guide.


The spirit, as well as the aura, are only consequences of one's vital energy. Without that vital energy there wouldn't be an aura or a spirit, which means that it's actually hierarchically superior to those two. A light bulb only glows if it's fed by electricity which is what happens between vital energy and auras, since the vital energy works a lot like electricity.

Also, vital energy is more impersonal and, therefore, more primary than the spirit (a word that can have a zillion definitions depending on one's religious and cultural context).

Demordeth
20th February 2005, 04:42 AM
The spirit, as well as the aura, are only consequences of one's vital energy. Without that vital energy there wouldn't be an aura or a spirit, which means that it's actually hierarchically superior to those two. A light bulb only glows if it's fed by electricity which is what happens between vital energy and auras, since the vital energy works a lot like electricity.

Also, vital energy is more impersonal and, therefore, more primary than the spirit (a word that can have a zillion definitions depending on one's religious and cultural context).

Wrong. Spirit is what feeds your Vital Energy (I'm thinking of Ki, the things you learn in Tai-Chi and such). Spirit stands at the core of all things and all elements, hence why balance is so important, so your vital energy is a narrow consequence to your spiritual existence. You see, on itself, Spirit isn't all that great, but if you channel it into a surplus of the Ki you are referring to, you can enhance your physical and mental abilities. And according to the BA element guide (at least the one Absolution made, which I think of as official), that's one of the key features in using the Spirit element.

In case of the lightbulb, you have to stretch it to a greater contrast: sure, the movements and alterations of one's spiritual aura can be influenced by your Vital Force (as electricity). But what was the source of the electricity? The Spirit. I think that if you read through my guide here you'll see a lot of things your Vital Force and the spirit element share in common.

Conclusion -> Vital Energy is part of Spirit. Vital energy is actually another word for ethereal energy, which also cannot be seen, but can be felt, and used to manipulate outside factors or your own body and excess minor control over the other elements.

Hawk
20th February 2005, 07:11 AM
Hrm, well from what I learned as a little kiddie from Physics class...

Types of Energy
Heat
Electrical
Light
Nuclear
Kinetic
Potential
Sound

Also on a slightly higher level of Physics we have E=mc2 This also tells us that Mass can be taken as energy and energy can be taken as mass.


Wind per se has no interaction what so ever in energy as a single form, wind can only apply force to another object to create energy, Wind is created by atmospheric pressions, so it is created from a different kind of energy and produces energy, but IT isn't Energy.

By these principles, wind is energy. Moving wind has kinetic energy AND still wind has kinetic energy still because the particles are always moving unless it is at absolute zero temperature, where you can still say there is nucular energy or energy of mass.


Fire originally its in a state called plasma, it has energy and also can create it but cannot wield it for its own purpose.

Eh? Um... as far as I knew plasma was a gas that has all the atoms striped of their electrons. Of course this is very hot yes, but plasma is not really fire.

Listen, Im not an expert on vital force but energy is in EVERYTHING. All the elements are bound to have energy. Making a energy element would be kind of stupid because it could basicly be considered as all elements in a basic form. Methinks that this is a no idea.

Mihael
20th February 2005, 10:36 AM
Ok first regarding the theme "Spirit" i'll put an end to it:


Conclusion -> Vital Energy is part of Spirit. Vital energy is actually another word for ethereal energy, which also cannot be seen, but can be felt, and used to manipulate outside factors or your own body and excess minor control over the other elements.

I agree that Vital Energy is a part of Spirit, because without Spirit or a Body there is no Vital Energy but Vital Energy cannot be taken as another word for ethereal energy because they are two diferent subjects. If that is the "official" definition on RP in GUA then i must agree, but out of GUA context is very different.

The word Spirit has several meanings according to religious beliefs and cultural context. According to Western context the word Spirit is defined as "Individual Energy" but in the Oriental ways Spirit is defined as beeing "Universal Energy".

This is only to make clear that the theme Spirit has very wide interpretations and depends on the beliefs and context of the person.

And to answer to Redeemed, Wind is Air+Energy, wind is air transporting energy molecules, so in part it HAS energy but it isn't entirelly energy, therefore Wind is nothing more than air carrying energy. Take a look at this quote from the Danish Wind Industry Association:


The Power of the Wind: Cube of Wind Speed
The wind speed is extremely important for the amount of energy a wind turbine can convert to electricity: The energy content of the wind varies with the cube (the third power) of the average wind speed, e.g. if the wind speed is twice as high it contains 2 3 = 2 x 2 x 2 = eight times as much energy.
Now, why does the energy in the wind vary with the third power of wind speed? Well, from everyday knowledge you may be aware that if you double the speed of a car, it takes four times as much energy to brake it down to a standstill. (Essentially this is Newton's second law of motion).

Plasma, on the other hand, can be several things. According to Physics, fire IS plasma as well as lightning, for example. Take a look at plasma definition according to NASA:


Plasma is not a gas, liquid, or solid - it is the fourth state of matter. Plasma often behaves like a gas, except that it conducts electricity and is affected by magnetic fields. On an astronomical scale, plasma is common. The Sun is composed of plasma, fire is plasma, fluorescent and neon lights contain plasma.

I think i cannot be more explicit regarding this matter, so I rest my case

Marushia
20th February 2005, 10:42 AM
but wind, in itself, is not energy. If you kick a football, it will move and knock something out: its motion started with an impulse (energy) and, as a consequence, it gained enough balance (energy) to have a direct efect on something else. Just like the wind, it only carried energy from place A to place B. Wind is nothing more than air transporting aeolic energy.

Really, that's all ANYTHING is: matter changing the amount and type of energy it has. To have motion of any kind, you need Kinetic Energy (KE = 1/2mv2). Without motion, you just have Potential Energy, which has many different forms depending on position, shape, etc. (PE = mgy due to gravity or PE = qVd due to charge or PE = kx2 due to compression, etc.)

Also, when I said I use energy, I meant that I use my understanding of energy and how it relates to a particular element. So really, I'm controlling energy and matter, not whatever the ancient alchemic forms of them were.

I definitely recommend you read through my Wind Thread. Also, there's a link to my SRPG in my sig. Read up on the section called Body Energy under Bio abilities.

Demordeth
20th February 2005, 10:48 AM
This is only to make clear that the theme Spirit has very wide interpretations and depends on the beliefs and context of the person.

And that's exactly why the previous element discussion put the limits we now have unto the element. People now are only writing them down more detailed, but the rules remain the same.

So I was just trying to say, that Vital Force isn't any specific element, but that Spirit comes closest to it, if you were intent on using it in the BA.

Marushia
20th February 2005, 10:53 AM
For those who've seen YYH, it might be easiest to think of this "Vital Energy" as Life Energy and that Rei Ki (Spirit Energy) can be substituted by tapping into Life Energy once Spirit Energy has run out.

Hawk
20th February 2005, 11:05 AM
And to answer to Redeemed, Wind is Air+Energy, wind is air transporting energy molecules, so in part it HAS energy but it isn't entirelly energy, therefore Wind is nothing more than air carrying energy. Take a look at this quote from the Danish Wind Industry Association:

Ugh... well first of all when it is saying the energy in wind it is talking about kinetic energy.
And do I REALLY have to re-ittereate my post? Go off and study ideal gases! AIR ALWAYS HAS KINETIC ENERGY. This is because the particles are always moving about. If the particles were not moving, they would be at absolute zero temperature, and even in space temperatures dont reach that low. I quote "The mean translational kinetic energy of a molecule of an ideal gas is proportional to the thermodynamic temperature."
And if you want to further argue, let me remind you that air has mass, even though we cannot feel it (if I removed the air from around someone they would explode due to blood pressure) it is there. And mass is energy, as I said before.

Hysteria
21st February 2005, 02:20 AM
Anything with a higher temprature than 0k then has energy.1
I dont really like mixing science and fantasy together, i think it creates unreasonable spells and suddenly someone saying: "No! Your lightning bolt would get sucked into the ground because of my earthen shield!!!" O.o

An energy element using this sort of 'tangable' energy would infringe on other element. Perhaps like how some people used void, and just create lots of copycat spells. I can clearly see someone speeding up energy and igniting fire, or speeding up air and creating wind. IMO just plain not good.1


People and all of the living things have a so called "Vital Force". Its in the individual ability to use it to his own benefit, it involves strengh and high levels of concentration to be able to use it.


This is only some examples for my perspective of Energy or Vital Force, regarding the Elements that already exist and explainning why i think it could be separeted from them.

In terms of char's, one could use its own energy to affect others, and create its own spells and also use the Vital Force of living things and innanimated objects that exist in the surroundings. Although innanimated objects still have Energy of their own they have much less than a living one.

The char that uses its Vital Force can also manipulate its power to increase its physicall abilities and strengh or use the energy around him to do so.

This all IMO fits into Spirit. Life force is the spirit.

Marushia
6th March 2005, 09:38 AM
I dont really like mixing science and fantasy together, i think it creates unreasonable spells and suddenly someone saying: "No! Your lightning bolt would get sucked into the ground because of my earthen shield!!!" O.o

But then, magic and religion always step in where science fails. For all the science I know, I still know a bit about magic as well. However, I forget who, but someone once said something like "All magic is science," so it merely depends on just how much you know of science.

Like I've always said, Jack would pwn us all in that respect if he ever RPed.


An energy element using this sort of 'tangable' energy would infringe on other element. Perhaps like how some people used void, and just create lots of copycat spells. I can clearly see someone speeding up energy and igniting fire, or speeding up air and creating wind. IMO just plain not good.

Well, besides that, it would require you to have an understanding of how ALL the elements work. Granted, anyone like that would have to be hella good and there are those like that but, I'm fairly sure that, even if those people RPed 100% fairly, they'd still be unbeatable.

I suppose Alpha and Omega are the closest things to this.

Hysteria
7th March 2005, 03:30 AM
But then, magic and religion always step in where science fails. For all the science I know, I still know a bit about magic as well. However, I forget who, but someone once said something like "All magic is science," so it merely depends on just how much you know of science.

This is a one GREAT subject imo, what is Magic? Is it the same as Religion? Also for me Science is just a more complex form of magic, somthing which no one can ever fully understand and each person has a bit of 'faith' but anyway......


Well, besides that, it would require you to have an understanding of how ALL the elements work. Granted, anyone like that would have to be hella good and there are those like that but, I'm fairly sure that, even if those people RPed 100% fairly, they'd still be unbeatable.

True, a novice of all has an advantage over a master of one.


I suppose Alpha and Omega are the closest things to this.

Meh, pure force, i mean really pure is more like arcana (spelling might be wrong, the element that Hawk pushed for). But like i said it would infringe on other elements.

Marushia
7th March 2005, 07:00 AM
Yes, but the priciples behind Alpha and Omega are more like those of Arcana and Energy.


This is a one GREAT subject imo, what is Magic? Is it the same as Religion? Also for me Science is just a more complex form of magic, somthing which no one can ever fully understand and each person has a bit of 'faith' but anyway......

Well, like I said, Magic and religion often pick up where science leaves off, explaining what it can't. However, we know the science behind many things that were once considered magic, so I think Magic is really the bridge from religion to science.

Hysteria
8th March 2005, 01:11 AM
Yes, but the priciples behind Alpha and Omega are more like those of Arcana and Energy.

Really how so? I see Alpha creating things, where as Omega simply destoying them.


Well, like I said, Magic and religion often pick up where science leaves off, explaining what it can't. However, we know the science behind many things that were once considered magic, so I think Magic is really the bridge from religion to science.

Ahh, but all science is theory, it can be supported or dissproved by evidence just like magic and religion (on a side note a lot of magic is about using spirits and the such, just liek religion). I think that fundamentally magic, religion, luck, science and superstion are all based on the same laws of logic and faith.

Carnage
8th March 2005, 05:53 AM
Like i said to Ace_of_Spades, Chi for the Chinese, Ki for the Japanese and Prana for the Indians is the belief that a person can use their Live Force in order to afect material things, one can manipulate it and expand it. Its a invisible force however cause it cannot be seen or touched but it can "touch" and be "felt" by other living organisms.


i believe if anything this would be covered by Psi (telekinetics) and Psi (telepathy) Spirit couls also do somethigns with this idea, but influencing external objects with your own energy, is deffinatly Psi.

hmmm this thread just gave me an idea for a character, and a quest...

Marushia
10th March 2005, 06:43 AM
i believe if anything this would be covered by Psi (telekinetics) and Psi (telepathy) Spirit couls also do somethigns with this idea, but influencing external objects with your own energy, is deffinatly Psi.

No, Carnage. Tai Chi is not telekenesis. If so, then every Shoalin student is telekenetic.

If you want to see how it can be used in other elements, check out Mako/Caden (sig).

One utilizes Ki in a broad sense, converting most of it into kinetic energy and then directing it, allowing for flight or large gusts of "wind." The other concentrates it into one point, converting much of it into heat energy and light to produce "fire."

Sauron
10th March 2005, 09:57 AM
I love how everyone augments their arguments with bad anime cartoons. I can see that you guys have made up your own definitions of "magic", and how each should be used - I'll warn you that you're well on the way to repressing most of your better roleplayers.

I created and chose an element, simply because it was the done thing. Now, the first person to tell Celephais "You can't do that, you're not a fire elementalist" when she throws a fireball with her staff will receive all six feet of said staff pushed firmly up their rectum.

I guess I'm just lamenting the true roleplaying style of out-thinking your opponent(s).

Magic itself should be considered a force - and the method that you use this force should be up to you. You might be considered good at throwing ice bolts at people - does this mean that you can't throw a fireball? Absolutely not. It completely depends on what you've learned throughout your character's life.

Celephais is good with necromancy, but she's quite capable of throwing a fireball at you or healing you as well. My opinion is that if you use common sense and establish your own "realistic" limits, then you should do rather well.

Finally (and this is for everyone): Stop pretending that you're an expert in something that's imaginary. It's ALL made up, it's all pretend - embrace that, use it - use your own imagination and you'll go a lot farther than if you restrict yourself to the tenets that someone else has set forth.

That said, Elements are BOLLOCKS.

Marushia
10th March 2005, 10:30 AM
Well put, Ithaqua, though I resent this statement:


I love how everyone augments their arguments with bad anime cartoons. I can see that you guys have made up your own definitions of "magic", and how each should be used - I'll warn you that you're well on the way to repressing most of your better roleplayers.

Anime is only a catalyst for my understanding. Most of what I know comes from the culmination of tons of movies I've seen and books I've read on the stuff. And, unless you fought someone on your level of skill, battles would realistically be about as short as in Charmed: Piper blasts them once and they're vanquished.

Demordeth
10th March 2005, 11:20 AM
I created and chose an element, simply because it was the done thing. Now, the first person to tell Celephais "You can't do that, you're not a fire elementalist" when she throws a fireball with her staff will receive all six feet of said staff pushed firmly up their rectum.

We're not talking about THETA here, with which you can basically do whatever the hell you want. The elements are all distinct kinds of specialization, and they all add flavour (and semi-limits) to the BA, mainly by making sure noone is throwing ultra-super-duper-death-halos-of-the-seventh-goddamned-deity-of-the-fucking-underworld around at each other.

Now, you can go and tell me that this can be fixed with common sense. I don't think so. If you can do whatever you want with magic, people will always try to suck everything they can out of it. I know I wouldn't like to be put up with a weak char if all others are THETA-like. Of course, you'll have people who don't wish to conform to this (mainly the BA elite) but if you're facing a multitude of 00ber powerful, unlimited people, the BA will get more and more boring.

There'd be no challenge to the BA without elements, but that's for another discussion.

----

NOW ON-TOPIC:


I love how everyone augments their arguments with bad anime cartoons. I can see that you guys have made up your own definitions of "magic", and how each should be used - I'll warn you that you're well on the way to repressing most of your better roleplayers.

These definitions have been SET by those who are known for their expertise in a certain magical element. How we interpret it differently only adds to the variety of the BA, and I don't see how originality would repress the better RPers around here. Or should we all remain to the Ball, Beam, Ultra-Hyper-Mega-Destruction spells known from most anime series? Basically, the statement quoted was a small contradiction: you say we shouldn't try to do new things, yet you also say that you don't like anime rip-off spells. If we don't try to be original within the limits, we will just keep to these spells.

k33p3r:
If you want to do this with an unrestricted element, Spirit or Bio are still your best bets, IMO, most probably spirit being the closest to it. You could basically harden spiritual energy (which is converting your Ki to physical energy, basically) and throw it at someone, yielding the same effect as a Wind Bomb (though with Spirit the cost is far higher).

*Quickly sprints away to participate in the element discussion*

Sauron
10th March 2005, 01:28 PM
Demordeth -

I think you're missing my original point entirely (or you're purposefully dancing around it). I'm not a sparring type, so I generally don't tend to fit into the BA - I'm far more of a roleplayer/quest type. From my own experience, if you find that restricting people to a certain set of abilities makes your job easier, then that's fine - go ahead and go about it that way. Most people that are real roleplayers wouldn't touch our BA with a 10m battle lance in the first place, but that's another discussion.

I thought when I'd returned that I might venture into the BA and do something, you know - actually participate. I got dragged into a tournament and found that not only do I not have any clue how to play in the BA, but that it was also far too restrictive. I prefer using my brain to solve problems as they're presented to me, rather than robotically looking at my so-called "skill list" and picking something off of it.

Some people thrive off of structured battles, others do not. I completely understand that having some sort of structured system in place is pretty much required for something of the nature of the BA (using the stats bars on the side, that is) - otherwise, you'll end up with lots of insta-death spells and the like.

Now, for those people who know how to roleplay properly, this isn't a problem. As long as the character in question uses a bit of common sense and tact, there should be no issues with over-powerful characters. As I said before, Celephais has incredible powers - she can heal or hurt, toss fireballs with ease, or even ice bolts if necessary. She's not great with any so-called element, and she's vulnerable to all of them. Where does a character like that fit into the BA? The answer is that she doesn't properly fit in at all.

I was brought into posting in this thread due to an argument that was brought to my attention, which seemed completely petty. First off, if you ARE to implement restrictions, it's not for one person to do it - it should be a group concensus. I suppose that's why this is in "Chat Corner" as opposed to being a sticky in the BA proper - because this is simple discussion of that.


Now, you can go and tell me that this can be fixed with common sense. I don't think so. If you can do whatever you want with magic, people will always try to suck everything they can out of it. I know I wouldn't like to be put up with a weak char if all others are THETA-like. Of course, you'll have people who don't wish to conform to this (mainly the BA elite) but if you're facing a multitude of 00ber powerful, unlimited people, the BA will get more and more boring.

Yes, I do tend to forget that most of the players in the BA aren't usually mature enough to exercise self-restraint.

By the way, what's your problem with the Theta element? It doesn't have any associated powers, it doesn't do anything for me at all, other than hang under my name.

Marushia -

I've never seen charmed, nor do I know who 'Peter' or whatever his name is that insta-kills people. I typically take in about two hours of television PER YEAR and that's usually some history/documentary or related movie.

--------------------------------------------------------------------

Demordeth
10th March 2005, 02:10 PM
I think you're missing my original point entirely (or you're purposefully dancing around it). I'm not a sparring type, so I generally don't tend to fit into the BA - I'm far more of a roleplayer/quest type. From my own experience, if you find that restricting people to a certain set of abilities makes your job easier, then that's fine - go ahead and go about it that way. Most people that are real roleplayers wouldn't touch our BA with a 10m battle lance in the first place, but that's another discussion.

- I'm trying to keep in line with the original intention of this thread, and as such I kept to the elements, and not to skill sets, which may seem like dancing around your point.

- Maybe you are not a sparring type, but nowhere was mentioned that this thread was about one, single person. We're discussing things for the whole BA here, of which the majority of people do like a spar every once in a while.

- We were never talking about skill lists. That's a whole different matter: as for that, I think that it would be better to do "abilities" (like fire manipulation) instead of distinct spells, but that is for another discussion.

- Bold Part in the Quote: Oh. Excuse me for being a sarcast... but... you say that people like pstr2blvia aren't real roleplayers? Absolution? Bad_Kharma? Redeemed? Wolve? Legion? Zach? The list goes on forever. Hell, most admins have RPed in the BA, though not as often. And I disagree: the BA is one big pit of creativity, instead of the rules and the set-up world that are presented to you on other forums. Don't get me wrong, I like that, but as far as creativity goes, BA is top-notch, and an excellent place to practice different methods of writing. I doubt many people will agree with you on that.


I thought when I'd returned that I might venture into the BA and do something, you know - actually participate. I got dragged into a tournament and found that not only do I not have any clue how to play in the BA, but that it was also far too restrictive. I prefer using my brain to solve problems as they're presented to me, rather than robotically looking at my so-called "skill list" and picking something off of it.

Again, it's about elements, not about a skill list. This time, you're missing the point. My point, and the point of this thread.


Some people thrive off of structured battles, others do not. I completely understand that having some sort of structured system in place is pretty much required for something of the nature of the BA (using the stats bars on the side, that is) - otherwise, you'll end up with lots of insta-death spells and the like.

Instant-Death is prohibited and can get you a warning. That's what refrains even the most powerful characters from dominating. And the BA isn't structured. If you want something even less-structured, I can only think of the FFBA. Now, the elements do deliver some kind of structure. But I've pointed that out in my previous post.

And if you want to use your creativity to get out of something... who's gonna stop you? But that was not what this thread is about.


Now, for those people who know how to roleplay properly, this isn't a problem. As long as the character in question uses a bit of common sense and tact, there should be no issues with over-powerful characters. As I said before, Celephais has incredible powers - she can heal or hurt, toss fireballs with ease, or even ice bolts if necessary. She's not great with any so-called element, and she's vulnerable to all of them. Where does a character like that fit into the BA? The answer is that she doesn't properly fit in at all.

Of course she fits in. That's the BA. You can do what you want, but to keep it exciting and to keep some flavour in the forum, elements and stats (in modded battles) may influence the outcome of a battle. Why wouldn't she fit in? You said yourself that you like to RP smart and get an edge over your opponent. That's good. That's variety. That's original. That's what the BA is all about. But the elements at least give us some borders, which are exciting to work around (as k33p3r is trying to do here with his Vital Force, which is just fine).


I was brought into posting in this thread due to an argument that was brought to my attention, which seemed completely petty. First off, if you ARE to implement restrictions, it's not for one person to do it - it should be a group concensus. I suppose that's why this is in "Chat Corner" as opposed to being a sticky in the BA proper - because this is simple discussion of that.

A group of persons have discussed the elements. I can deep up the threads for you, if you like, they're just here in the chat corner. They were thoroughly discussed, and the restrictions were unanimously implemented. Now, you're right on this being a discussion of that: how can k33p3r - or any other, for that matter - tweak around with an element so one can use the Vital Force, but it doesn't cross any borders, or becomes godmodding.


Yes, I do tend to forget that most of the players in the BA aren't usually mature enough to exercise self-restraint.

Don't go ad hominem with me please, if you meant to do so. It detracts from your better arguments. If it was a random statement... this has nothing to do with maturity. It's creativity, originality, discovering new things, storytelling. And it's a style of roleplaying. Because, even though character may be overpowered, most people will never tend to dominate someone else in the BA. That wouldn't make a good story.


By the way, what's your problem with the Theta element? It doesn't have any associated powers, it doesn't do anything for me at all, other than hang under my name.

I have no problem with the theta element. It's just how you used it in an example: no one would tell you what you CAN'T do, because the only thing the mundane RP knows about THETA is that it spells out death. Theta has no limits - at least none we know about - so it's wrong to compare it to the (semi-)unrestricted elements like Spirit, Bio, Alpha, and all others mentioned here, as they do have borders set for them.

---

In short, no RPer roleplays the same, they're all unique, with unique characters. To keep character unique all of us scour the borders of the elements. Sometimes we don't know for sure and open a thread here like k33p3r. Your first post actually brought something else into discussion: the usefulness of skill lists, RPer self-restraint, and the usefulness of the elements (of course your post was preceded by others who hinted in that direction slowly, I'm not accusing you of off-topic posting).

I tried to keep objective but if there are any hints of flame... a CC mod can warn me for it.

Legion
10th March 2005, 03:37 PM
- Bold Part in the Quote: Oh. Excuse me for being a sarcast... but... you say that people like pstr2blvia aren't real roleplayers? Absolution? Bad_Kharma? Redeemed? Wolve? Legion? Zach? The list goes on forever. Hell, most admins have RPed in the BA, though not as often. And I disagree: the BA is one big pit of creativity, instead of the rules and the set-up world that are presented to you on other forums. Don't get me wrong, I like that, but as far as creativity goes, BA is top-notch, and an excellent place to practice different methods of writing. I doubt many people will agree with you on that.

Do you really think that tbe BA is the best the world has to offer in terms of RPing? Because if you think so, please remove my name from that list you made. Unlike what you think, Ithaqua might have a hell load of experience, compared to what you know.

And I agree with him. Though I personally don't consider these RP forums bad, I am not so foolish to think we actually compare up to other places. But believe what you wish to believe. Just don't insult others.

Yes, I apologige for this entirely out of topic post. I know I should've done this in a seperate thread or something but meh. It's not like anyone ever listens to me.

Sauron
10th March 2005, 03:57 PM
Demordeth -

I wasn't meaning to sound derogatory there, if I came off that way I apologise. You're quite good at debate, and you make very valid points. My concern was the restrictiveness of the BA in general and of the forum itself - but, I may be talking from my rear, because I quite honestly don't know how it all works.

Also, I don't consider anything you said to me as flaming, you were merely stating your opinion, and that's perfectly fine. If someone warns you over that, then that's total bollocks.

As far as the theta element goes, I honestly haven't made anything up for it. The prime idea behind it was necromancy - the ability to work with death, and the dead. Everyone incorrectly assumes it means that I hand out death with it. The only reason that it's a "restricted" element (I say restricted here in that no-one can choose it) is to keep everyone from swamping it.

Perhaps, if someone would be so kind as to help guide me in the proper direction, I might join in on the BA revelry - I've tried it before, and usually ended up making a beautiful thread, only to have someone five posts in enter with:

"I drop out uv a tree. Hi!!!11!"

In that respect, I'd sort of lost interest in it. Perhaps the calibre of roleplaying has changed since then - it's been a VERY long time since I've tried. With respects to the people that roleplay that you mention - I believe that it's those people that hold the BA together as a whole - I'm not knocking their prowess with that over-generalised statement - that was simply an error in wording on my part. My statement was meant to say more that a newbie to the board that was an extensive roleplayer would drop their jaw at the plethora of things that have to be taken into consideration to play.

Let me know if someone warns you for flaming me. :D That thing under my name says "Server Administrator", I believe - and I'll get it fixed for you.

Demordeth
11th March 2005, 11:29 AM
Do you really think that tbe BA is the best the world has to offer in terms of RPing? Because if you think so, please remove my name from that list you made. Unlike what you think, Ithaqua might have a hell load of experience, compared to what you know.

You misinterpreted. Creativity is not the same as RPing, though they do tie in with each other. I was merely pointing out that BA is the most open you can get, and therefore it also gives an RPer the best opportunity to think of something original, instead of abiding by the rules of a restricted RP forum. That is, you can create your own world, own flora and fauna, divinities, you can create a giant storyline around your character which you creatively made up, instead of taking a look at a map to see what you can't and cannot do.

And I don't think I know more than Ithaqua. In fact, I would bet a lot that his RPing experience is greater than mine. But that doesn't say anything for this discussion.

As far as RPing in whole goes... I can only say you're right :)

----

Ithaqua:


Perhaps, if someone would be so kind as to help guide me in the proper direction, I might join in on the BA revelry - I've tried it before, and usually ended up making a beautiful thread, only to have someone five posts in enter with:

"I drop out uv a tree. Hi!!!11!"

Oh yeah, that brings back some memories. But there are Invite-Only quests to stop such things from happening. Also, with the Training Forum being up, these things should not happen all too often, anymore. Unless it's deliberate spamming (oh, I know the feeling...) :)


As far as the theta element goes, I honestly haven't made anything up for it. The prime idea behind it was necromancy - the ability to work with death, and the dead. Everyone incorrectly assumes it means that I hand out death with it. The only reason that it's a "restricted" element (I say restricted here in that no-one can choose it) is to keep everyone from swamping it.

I understand, now. That makes more sense than the element guide calling it "facing the death incarnate".


In that respect, I'd sort of lost interest in it. Perhaps the calibre of roleplaying has changed since then - it's been a VERY long time since I've tried. With respects to the people that roleplay that you mention - I believe that it's those people that hold the BA together as a whole - I'm not knocking their prowess with that over-generalised statement - that was simply an error in wording on my part. My statement was meant to say more that a newbie to the board that was an extensive roleplayer would drop their jaw at the plethora of things that have to be taken into consideration to play.

Yes, this all happened a lot before the Training Forum "rose to power". It's just the place to go for newlings who have never RPed before. In a sense, you are right about the lower quality of quests/spars in the BA, less effort put into posts because they won't be judged anyway.


Let me know if someone warns you for flaming me. That thing under my name says "Server Administrator", I believe - and I'll get it fixed for you.

I don't think I have to worry anymore now that that's been said :p